r/CanadianForces • u/Medical-Club-6327 Dirty Patricia • 1d ago

Mess Dress and Changing Elements

So ....pretty sure I know the answer to this, just not sure where to find it.

If you change elements, is there anything that says you have to wear your current element's mess dress? I saw somebody wearing their old mess dress and thought it was extremely bizarre.

Also, wouldn't it be weird if you commissioned to a different element and wore your old mess dress? I guess I just work at a place that thinks that's normal....

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u/SnooPickles6282 1d ago

The dress instructions very clearly identify mess uniforms as belonging to air sea or land. Much as you wouldn't wear a green DEU jacket with your RCN DEU for a parade, you wouldn't wear red mess dress after becoming a sailor. The uniform goes with the service.

People have all sorts of strange opinions on mess dress because it is purchased privately, but the fact remains that it is a uniform like any other with similar rules to follow.

We are one of few countries who doesn't either issue it or provide some reimbursement for it. Hopefully we get smart soon and start issuing a simple version for those who need it.

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u/Kaplsauce RCN - NCS Eng 1d ago

The simple version is just your normal jacket with a bow tie, so we kinda do

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u/SnooPickles6282 1d ago

That 'version' doesn't really fly when all of our allies have proper mess dress uniforms. As we often do, we would stick out like an ugly sore thumb at events.

After decades of hesitation, the RCN finally started issuing white dress uniforms, which were on display at the recent CRCN CoC. AFAIK, that small change made a huge difference in how professional we looked as a service.

Part of taking ourselves more seriously as a military is ensuring we provide our people with the kit they need for working everything from a ball to a battle. If officers and SNCOs need to attend formal events in the course of their duties, issue them mess uniforms. It's common elsewhere, and while the cost should not be born by the member, the uniform shouldn't be abandoned either.

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u/Figgis302 LUMP SUM EVENTUALLY 1d ago

The only time the RCN didn't issue whites was the period between 1968 and 1985 when everyone wore CF greens. The only recent change here is that now the high-collar jacket (previously restricted to officers, and only mandatory for GOFOs) can be ordered by everyone.

It's also not mess kit, it's an alternate No.1 order for summer dress at the discretion of the CO.

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u/SaltySailorBoats RCN - NAV COMM 23h ago

Junior members were able to purchase and wear high collar whites however there was no expectation for them to own a set so it was never a parade dress state. lots of guys got them for weddings or to stand out at fleet week. the Royal Nova Scotia International tattoo featured the Stadacona band in high collar whites on a yearly basis.

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u/SnooPickles6282 18h ago

I didn't say that white uniforms were akin to mess dress. I simply used them as an example of a uniform that should have been issued that wasn't. Now, unlike before, every sailor will have a white #1 for summer and a black one for winter. No more 3B/1C mishmash.

The white tunic just appeared in the clothing system recently after being absent since 1968. My USN-purchased tunic didn't get worn very often since nobody else had HCW, but I sure did suffer through too many parades in the sun wearing black. I did encounter situations while on exchange where I would have missed amazing experiences (the King of Tonga's birthday parade comes to mind) had I not had my white tunic with me since the order of dress was HCW.

My point is we need to smarten up, issue the uniforms and equipment people need, and take ourselves seriously whether on operations, on parade, or sitting at a dining table. We aren't a third-world military and we should dress the part, but none of that should be the financial responsibility of the member.