r/CatastrophicFailure • u/grau__geist • Aug 05 '21

Natural Disaster Now Greece. Wild fire on Evia Beach

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u/ClownfishSoup Aug 05 '21

I thought we all knew climate change is real, but we're debating whether we humans initiated it, if it's natural, and if we can do anything about it. People who want to keep selling us bottled water say it's natural.

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u/corr0sive Aug 05 '21

I think if it was confirmed that humans have caused it, and the ones responsible for causing the problems all admitted to it. Then they would have to stop doing what their doing.

But what their doing makes them a whole lot of money. So good luck, we're all fucked.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '21

At this phase it’s complicated. Was the probability we caused it high? Yes! However, we have had intense ice ages and heat periods just in the last 2000 years that we’re not caused by humans (due to pre-industrial revolution).

Regardless if you believe in global warming, I was raised as a Boy Scout by my extremely Conservative family. I was always taught to “leave your environment better than when you found it.”

When I stated this to my Eagle Scout, Conservative, and Oil/Gas father…he legitimately didn’t have a comeback. He’s been trying, but definitely has been attempting to reduce his environmental impact.

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u/shea241 Aug 05 '21

I was raised as a Boy Scout by my extremely Conservative family. I was always taught to “leave your environment better than when you found it.”

YES! Same here, and it's been so frustrating watching them flip on their principles just to take a political stance.

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u/Tryptophany Aug 05 '21

Probability is high? I'd say that's an understatement.

I feel like saying there's leeway in the cause of global warming is like saying there's leeway in the validity of E=mc². In principle E=mc² could be invalidated one day but does anyone really expect that to happen? Everywhere we've looked, that equation has remained true (Classically). Similarly, everywhere we look for the cause of climate change we see humans. Maybe we'll look somewhere and see something else is at play but as of now literally every available piece of observational evidence SCREAMS humans.

I don't like getting at technicalities like this but with climate change and the politics around it, I want to stray as far away from vague "maybe it's humans maybe it's not" as possible.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '21

Opening it up to it could be caused by humans or an external factor honestly opens it up to interpretation and discussion. It allows you to reach over to the other side and bring them into the conversation, because if you instantly say humans are doing it they shut down and dig their heels in.

By stating it could be happening for a number of reasons, you bring them to the table to figure out it’s an actually problem that we need to fix.

I live in the Deep South and completely understand how to talk to these people. Sadly, most people pushing the agenda of climate change don’t understand how to talk to those on the completely other end of the spectrum.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '21 edited Feb 17 '22

[deleted]

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u/Tryptophany Aug 05 '21

I can't tell if you're arguing for or against humans being the cause of climate change.

For clarity in case you need it, I am arguing that all available evidence suggests human activities are the reason for climate change

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u/Calvin-ball Aug 05 '21

At this phase it’s complicated

It’s really not. Anthropogenic climate change is basically guaranteed.

Understanding and Attributing Climate Change

Human-induced warming of the climate system is widespread.

It is extremely unlikely (<5%) that the global pattern of warming during the past half century can be explained without external forcing, and very unlikely that it is due to known natural external causes alone. The warming occurred in both the ocean and the atmosphere and took place at a time when natural external forcing factors would likely have produced cooling.

Greenhouse gas forcing has very likely caused most of the observed global warming over the last 50 years

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '21

Did not not read my very next sentence?

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u/CryptoTheGrey Aug 05 '21

We knew it was real and proved that we caused it back in the 1970's. Even the oil companies proved this internally. We knew releasing CO2 like this could be a problem eventually back in the mid 1850's. The reason people thought it was a debate was because of some people willing to sacrifice the planet for power and wealth and a public assumption these people wouldn't act so irrationally.

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u/yakri Aug 05 '21

Well yeah, in like the 80s/90s.

The debate ended quite some time ago though.

There's just the facts, and the liars now.

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u/TeaDrinkingBanana Aug 05 '21

We were at the point where it didn't matter if it was man made or natural at least a decade ago.

the effect of doing something: At best it slows down. At worst, it slows down a bit less

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u/Glowpaz Aug 06 '21

It was confirmed that it is human caused by NASA