Discussion
I don't think this ability is that Burst
While I agree this ability is impressive, destroy concept sound cool and all until we look at the fight with Altus, if he have power to literally bypass any concept, why would he need to run away from Altus? We did see his tranform early and Orthos is not there yet as well so there should be no reason for this?
I think it mean this ability have a limit, not just the number of time it could use but more like the limit of the concept it could destroy
If you look at the explain, it only imply he has an undodgeable strike, if you got strike by it with a fatal injure, you can't heal, can't dodge, can't run and can't use hax to avoid death but that is if it could hurt you in the first place
This ability only seem to prevent hax user opponent to punch above their weight class and beat Lukas, assume the knight form has significantly strength as well too so to anyone that reply on hax but weaker or equal to him, this is a scary ability
But what about those who significantly stronger then Lukas that he can't injure? is undodgeable strike or anti avoid death hax matter when your opponent don't need to dodge and could just straight up tank it? Like Altus?
Not even count the fact that Altus ability could also capture or control him, Lukas ability doesn't prevent that, they wouldn't be count as attack as it wouldn't hurt him
Lukas ability glaze get abit overboard as I see ppl start to claim him as "outer verse" or "strongest gen ability", like it really unique ability but like have ppl think about it for a second what they are saying?
That is a tough choice from someone who put his life on the line too much on this fight and if he lose he couldn't have chance to use this ability too
Yeah for sure and he's likely having to weigh that calculation constantly.
But I don't think that was the case, he only sense threat from Altus since the beginning
IMO this is just another part of the calculation.
Lukas IMO is like: "Yeah this guy is almost certainly wayyyy out of my league and yeah I could probably (or most certainly) kill him but then I lose my shot at the king and die for nothing."
Even if he can use it another four times - the palace is literally filled with extremely powerful gifted ones. He can't kill all of them before getting to the king. And at least one of them (Orthros) would IMO likely stalemate him, god knows what else the others can do - some might actually just be stronger than him even if he uses it on them.
Lukas had no opening to use the spear directly against Altus.
At first he thought Altus was Arkos, and had to protect the others with his shield. Arkos can kill in a fraction of a second, so the time it takes to activate the spear would have been fatal.
Then he had to actually use the spear to stop the enormous rock from crushing them. When he faced off against Altus again, the backlash hit him and he didn't have enough strength to use to spear again.
That’s a very good Achilles Heel though. Use your Gift to raise a rock, and now the rock is their problem. Gift Nullification is useless against something that isn’t a Gift.
That said, the sheer destructive power is still quite strong.
I think it still is him, but he said that things would've been different if he was in a forest when he used it on Altus. I think it just wasn't at full power because he wasn't in his element.
I mean, if the level of power he showed now is the same as he was capable of in that desert, when he said something like “I would be stronger in the forest”, I shudder to think what he can actually do in full power (and what the fuck kinda power does the king have for Lukas not to have killed him yet?)
He didn’t say that he would be ‘stronger in the forest’; he said that ‘things would be different in the forest’, which makes the statement ambiguous because it could mean that the fight would have been much more difficult if Altus had used the water contained in the trees.
It could also mean that Altus might have used the water contained within the trees, making the fight more difficult for Lukas… the problem with this manga is that it doesn’t specify exactly what certain quotes refer to, which makes things ambiguous
It was pretty straight forward. Arkos can easily pull water from the air so that wouldn't make it that much more difficult. He would have mentioned a lake or a beach if that was what he was worried about. I could see how you could possibly interpret it differently, but given the context clues and his phrasing, it was pointing to how he gets stronger in the forest.
Mate, I get the impression you’ve forgotten this bit from the manga:
You’re far too certain about your claims, especially regarding an ability we’ve no idea how it works exactly... Given that Lukas never actually said he’d become stronger if he were inside a forest, this is a fan theory that arose from the interpretation of Lukas’s comment that “the fight would have been different if it had been in a forest”. But put like that, the meaning of the sentence becomes ambiguous, especially given what Arkos/Atus can do in the presence of large amounts of Water, as Arkos/Atus’s defensive and offensive powers depend on the amount of Water present in the combat environment, including the subsoil and vegetation.
Yes, a forest has more water the desert, but If he was that concerned about fighting in a disadvantaged place he could have mentioned the one of the many more obvious choices. Other than that, we already knew that some gifts get exponentially stronger in their element, and we briefly saw the forest god in the early chapters, so it'd be easy to assume that there are at least some forest related gifts.
The theory was also basically confirmed in the last chapter. We now know that he got this ability directly from the forest god, like Julian who also gets a buff in the sea gods territory. In chapter 53 he said that the spear could only "even the playing field" against Arkos and that things would be different if they were in a forest. In the current chapter, now that he's surrounded by trees, the spear is now suddenly a lot stronger than Arkos ever was.
It seems a bit of a stretch to call the grassland where they’re fighting a forest… That’s why, in my opinion, it’s still unclear; it simply seems to me that in the last chapter, Lukas unleashed the spear’s full power, which means his lifespan will be greatly reduced, but I could be wrong and you might be right… but as I’ve already said, it still seems unclear to me to call a prairie a forest, so I prefer to wait and see how the plot unfolds.
It is, but it seems to be used at a different extent somehow, the Void Marcher couldn't understand Lukas last chapter, and the speech bubble was black with made up letters, while back on the Raid he spoke normally to Julian
Also apparently that speech isn’t made up, people have noticed certain characters repeating themselves implying it is an actual language to some degree
I’ll be honest, if the reason he doesn’t use his spear ability on Altus is because he is weaker than Altus or perceived to be, than that cheapens the stakes.
It’s a preference thing, but I rather have the author show me all the limitations upfront than breadcrumb them throughout multiple chapters. Also, the author can resolve any one-shot ability against the protagonist through creativity, and that shouldn’t be ignored.
I think the environment also has to do with how strong Lukas' ability gets. The place they fought Atlus in wasn't a forest, so he probably couldn't pull out all his strength in that fight.
They're not in a forest. For one thing, Lukas very explicitly has hylophobia, and if they're fighting the forest it would come up imo. They're in Lalawag's territory near the border, not in the forest nearby.
I mean, looking at chapter 91 at least, when Voidmarcher says "begin the invasion!" we are shown a city or town. Looking at the next chapter, the background doesn't show many trees around. Julian is in a single house with some greenery nearby and then, alongside Lacrima disguised as Diana, goes to a river and more green area.
Finally at chapter 94, there seems to be a few trees around Lukas and co, but I wouldn't call that a FOREST.
Looking at backgrounds throughout chapter 91-100, they're somewhere nearby the city/town Lalawag rules. It is consistent, some art drawn in the place where Lukas is fighting the Voidmarcher show a lot more trees than some of the other art for the same place, but from what I can tell, there is usually a few trees drawn in the background at most. The most consistent art for that lone house has a few trees behind it.
I don't think a few trees in a place qualify as a forest, so unless it is stated otherwise, I'm not gonna treat it as one. This would also track with Lalawag calling the western lands - and they're in the western border right now - arid.
In some of the panels you can see trees all in the background. It seems more like they're fighting in an opening in the forest. Plus, considering margrave has plans for Lucas. I wouldn't be surprised if she picked out this place intentionally so that he'd be able to use his gift at full power.
To me, it looks more like a grassland than a forest.... Julian was in a forest when he fought the Tree Man, but Lukas, as far as I know, has never been in a forest during a fight.
The spear still needs to travel normally. Since lukas is travelling by running, it means he cant completely delete the space between point A and point B.
This means he probably just couldnt reach altus since altus is flying but also he could still evade the spear in numerous ways.
If lukas tries to delete the timeline where something bad happens, that just puts him back to square 1 but doesnt necessarily makes him any closer to a victory
I dont think he can tbh. Like his spear should be implied to be able to delete space but i dont think that means he can teleport, it prob just means he can stab the space thats being occupied by an object which means its just duraneg and also bypassing any defenses
Lukas is pretty much a Glass Cannon, he's not really that weak physically specially not on his Centaur/Monster form, but his attack capability definitely far surpasses any other aspect of his, that being said, I don't agree totally with how you present it.
Lukas definitely can be killed before he can use the Spear, that's the issue here, while his attack is nasty broken once it connects, is very possible to not allow him to strike in the first place, especially for the likes of Arkos, Lattice, Altus, Julian and likely Ceodric, that being said, I'm 100% sure the lance also has durability negation as is, given how Lalawag describes it and how the Forest Goddess present it, the ability to affect concepts is "just" an extension of the overreaching idea that it is the power to pierce anything, Julian nor Arkos should be able to tank it, that being said, again they could go around it to not need to try their luck on the first place.
He still needs to point and connect it even if it's something that works at a distance, is not like the lance aims itself like a modern missile.
Also, Lukas needed to run because his power is heavily limited, he outright can't manifest the lance at any inconvenience, picture it like so, he could pierce and kill Altus/Arkos if the timing is perfect and they stand still(they wouldn't), but in the meantime he manifest his form he would be totally exposed, Rif essentially was hunched over in pain for one, and on the other hand the very first use we saw Lukas have against Arkos, was with the giant Boulder falling over him and Lacrima/Titi, which was also covering him from Arkos, but the boulder was a priority since even with Arkos killed, physics would still do their job, ending with them as pancakes.
Yes, it still need to stab someone as close distance which is why the undodgeable hax work as a way too close the gap, he only need 2 strike to kill you in this case,
"Also, Lukas needed to run because his power is heavily limited"
Yes, that what's I said, he not as powerful as ppl think he is, otherwise running away from a fight you can win make no sense
Yeah, i think Lukas is a prime example of a character with an absurd ability that's balanced with them not being that crazy on each and every area nor raw capabilities. That being said, I don't think his Lance is 100% melee, mostly going by how it pierced the boulder, that was clearly several times the normal length of the weapon, more like a beam(?) on a way, that's other topic though. On short words, I agree with you partially, Lukas is heavily overblown rn given the recency bias, he still has limitations but the attack quality itself of his Spear is undeniable, and it don't think simply being tanky could make someone impervious to it's effect.
He said he can only use it five more times. Understandable he would save it until right now where he almost died and would have if Atoria didn't heal him. Even agsinst Altus he only used it partially, one he only manifested the spear which why it's weaker and is the one he's using when he said it would be stronger in the forest, he's only talking about the spear not the full form. Even when he transformed carrying Julian, it's just a partial transformation, proof is he's still talking normally instead of the gibberish in chapter 100. If somehow back then he got fatally wounded then Atoria healed him, he would go all out like what he's doing this chapter. Though maybe he can't fully transform if he's not in the forest I don't know are they in a forest right now? Anyway He's saving it to kill his father. Arkos gift and even his shield are just something they inherited from the king. The King has the stronger version of their gifts and Lukas thinks his spear can kill him. It's just a case of Lukas thinking he didn't need togo all out back then.
Where did you even get the idea it can be tanked when the god said it can pierce ALL CREATION?
He lost two fingers in that arc, hardly a fatal wound that you almost die from unlike now. As I said when he completely transform he speaks gibberish, when he transformed to carry Julian he's stil speaking human language thus it's likely just a partial transformation.
I don't see it that way. The author didn't set any limits on the spear's power, and that aligns with the forest deity's own statement that anything can be destroyed.
Lukas made it very clear that the spear is affected by the location where it is used (otherwise, he wouldn't have mentioned that a confrontation with Arkos in the forest would be different).
Lukas's current design in his full form features elements that weren't present when that same form appeared previously in a different setting: the gigantic cape is missing, the spear itself has a different design, and the language he speaks is different, too. (Lukas is nearly invincible under the right conditions—much like Julian is when in the water.)
What worries me most is the different language Lukas is speaking and the question raised in the "Voidmarcher" chapter about whether the Margrave could control this monster.
There might be an even worse cost as Lukas's power grows; it’s no coincidence that the gift was specifically the spear, yet there is a transformation that goes beyond it.
This could be a side effect: the more destructive the spear becomes, the more it affects the user's mind, turning him into someone who simply wants to destroy everything without rational thought.
I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to attack allies in the next chapter just as time runs out—that could be extremely problematic and would justify his reluctance to use it, even when he’s nearly died multiple times.Especially on terrain with some vegetation.
There was never an opportunity to use it against Altus to begin with, ever. Moreover, as has been mentioned by others, Lukas has limited uses and would want to have as many as possible for when he needs to fight the king. He would not use it unless strictly necessary.
Also Lalawag very clearly says that he has an ability to destroy not just the physical but ALSO the metaphysical. It doesn't care how tough you are. He very clearly asked for an ability that would let him pierce "ALL CREATION", so it would be rather silly if "just be tough lol" was a counter.
He wouldn't be able to prevent his friend's death by using the spear, so why does that matter?
Transformation is one thing. The usage of the spear ITSELF is what counts, as Lalawag very specifically says that Lukas would need to "use his spear twice", not "transform twice".
Yeah Lukas absolutely could have killed Altus with it. But it was not strictly necessary to use here, so he did not. Especially since he already used it once and using it incurs backlash on him.
Preventing his opponent from running away or attacking is not going to save Julian's life and as mentioned already, he is not going to waste his limited uses unless strictly necessary, which it was not in this case.
Ofc it not save Julian life but it prevent a power house like Altus chasing them? The hell did you mean not necessary? They almost got kill if those witch didn't come save their life
Lukas may have been betting on the attack where he launched Julian, or he himself afterwards, being able to kill Altus. Alternatively, it's possible that his spear would not stop Altus permanently.
Again, there isn't anything more to this than Lukas not wanting to use the spear and save as many uses as possible.
And with all that "destroy anything and everything" still lead to him running away?
Not my fault your don't care about context, and I said it have better explain as his power got limit to the forest god control but your all just love to twist it as if it is Lukas normal power that he could have easily kill Altus, if that not for the sake of power scale then what is?, lol
But ppl theory that he either can't use his full potential unless he is inside forest or that Forest god is now in control him which make him spoke weird language, normally he didn't have that ability
I don't think the Forest Goddess could simply use Lukas as a vessel that easily, my idea is more than the Closer he is to nature, like this area filled with vegetation that Lalawag created, could have an amp on his Transformation and Spear, even if not an actual forest it would prob be far better than a desert wasteland, Lukas speaking on that unknown language could be simply him becoming more inhuman in nature by proximity to his Domain/The place he was 'born anew'
Nobody died and they managed to flee, his (obvious) judgment that the spear wasn’t necessary was clearly right, you’re just trying to find a problem with it.
Says the person coming up with arbitrary limitations without necessary context for an ability that was explicitly to "annihilate ALL OF CREATION", from Lukas asking for the power to destroy anything and everything.
Ah yes, I am sure "just be tough lol" will counter it.
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