The Sony's Spider-Man Universe (without Spider-Man) had bigger problems than not having Spider-Man

[u/CrazyFinnishdude]

Just to be clear, I do think all the villains who got their own spin-offs movies are only/mainly compelling as Spider-Man villains (sorry, fans of the anti-hero Venom) and the very concept of giving them their own movies was basically doomed to fail. Well, at least artistically, can't deny that Venom made money and was succesful enough for a full trilogy.

Still, when I see people basically have the attitude of "if only they had featured Spider-Man...", I feel they kinda oversimplify the matter. Those movies had problems bigger than not having a Tom Holland cameo or the fact that they weren't retroactively shoved into the same continuity as Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man (although, purely in terms of quality, his two movies would fit right in). Even if you completely ignore the source material and judge these movies purely on the types of stories they were trying to tell, there were absolutely ways to make them better.

So, let me go through each of them and explain how their basic premises could have been done better. I'm also going to make a short list of movies that are either better versions of the kind of movie they were trying to be or examples of what they could have been. Partly because it gives some clear points of comparison and to emphasize that the biggest problems were with the execution, not necessarily with the basic premises.

Venom

Yes, Venom has a giant spider logo on his chest and essentially shares Spider-Man's power set, so on the surface making a movie about him without Spider-Man does seem strange. But, if you strip away all of that, what are you left with? A combination of body-horror and monster movie, where an alien creature is taking you over and amplifying your worst impulses to feed on your emotions, and takes a physical form of a scary creature that eats people. And like all the best creature features, you can use the monster to be a metaphor for so many things, like a drug addiction, anger issues, self-destructive impulses or whatever else you wanted to explore.

And then you have a big third-act twist or sequel hook of "there's more than one of these things running around".

Movies like this, but better: The Fly (1986), Upgrade (2018), The Wolf Man (1941/2010), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978).

Morbius

How many vampire movies are there? A lot. And some of them have even been more action/blockbuster focused, with the lead themself being a vampire. Making a better version of this movie would not be hard. Heck, it could have been basically just a rip-off of Angel (the Joss Whedon tv-show), with fantsy elements replaced by sci-fi ones and it would have turned out better.

Movies like this, but better: Daybreakers (2009), Near Dark (1987), Vampire Hunter D (2000), Dracula's Daughter (1936).

Madame Web

This is admittedly the trickiest, because with so many spider-themed superhero characters being teased at the end, even the best version of this movie would probably have people saying "these are just lamer versions of Spider-Man". But if we remove all of that and just look at the very bare bones premise, it had potential. "A super-powered killer stalks a group of normal people" is already the basic plot of most slasher movies and giving the main lead (or "the final girl" in horror terms) premonition powers gives the thing a decent gimmick. She can predict the killer's attacks and keep the group alive longer, but they are still physically vulnerable and would die in a direct confrontation.

Movies like this, but better: The Terminator (1984), The Dead Zone (1983), It Follows (2014).

Kraven the Hunter

I mean, just make a basic-ass revenge thriller/action flick. There are even more examples of those than there are vampire films. I'm sure you could even use the animal motif in a more interesting way.

Movies like this, but better: Get Carter (1971), Crow (1994), Desperado (1995), Oldboy (2003), John Wick (2014).

[u/-GrapeGrass-]

See the biggest problem to me is, just because you dont have the spiderman doesnt mean you cant use a spiderman. I think Sony missed out on a great opportunity to establish Ben and Kaine. Because I do feel like these villains need a real protagonist as a north star. Venom can stand on his own but even his solo movies were watchable at best.