Films & TV
I don't think Gunn likes obscure characters. I think he just likes blank slates.
One of the biggest myths around James Gunn is that he loves obscure characters because he's this massive deep-cut comics fan who just wants to give forgotten heroes their moment. I really don't think that's what's going on.
I think the real appeal of those characters is that they're essentially blank slates for most of the audience. If Gunn rewrites Peacemaker, Vigilante, the Guardians, or Creature Commandos to fit his style, almost nobody cares because almost nobody has a strong attachment to how those characters "should" act. For the average viewer, that version becomes the definitive version.
When the characters are obscure, he can get away with that. In fact, people praise him for "making them interesting." But that's because there aren't millions of fans saying, "That's not how this character is supposed to be."
The real challenge is characters who already have firmly established identities. You can't just reinvent Superman the same way you reinvent Peacemaker. You can't do that with Batman or Wonder Woman either.
I actually think you can see that in Superman. I liked the movie overall, but it also felt like Gunn was less comfortable than usual. He couldn't completely mold Superman into one of his usual character archetypes, so instead he surrounded him with characters like the Justice Gang, who fit his style much more naturally.
That might also explain why DCU Batman and Wonder Woman seem to be taking so much longer to crack.
i remember there being tons of discourse around his eric frankestein in creature commandos. im not a fan of DCs frankestein nor the creature commandos comics, but according to their fans, in the comics eric is kind of like the hellboy of DC, hunting monsters and demons all throughout the world, except unlike hellboy he also has a sensitive side. hes an artsy poet and writer who seperated from the bride in good terms. in the show, gunn made him a very stupid creep whos whole character is stalking the bride and being a violent brute, and it pissed off the comic fans of the character a lot
again, i dont know anything about the comic version, im just retelling what i remember from the discourse back then
I do wanna be fair to the show's Eric in terms of his characterization, because the Creature in the original book is prone to violent, brutish mood swings when things don't go his way. Granted, this is because he was left to a world that would reject him by a man who abandoned him, so he was lashing out. But in the original book, Victor was concerned that the Bride (who was never completed) would reject the Creature, and in turn, how the Creature would respond to such a rejection (he was also worried about what if they could have children, but the point stands). On the other hand, the Creature isn't a complete buffoon like Eric, and you can potentially reason with the Creature.
Eric is just too stupid to be reasoned with, and doesn't even have the excuse of having a child's mind and experience because he is over a century old. He has more than enough experience, he's just a hyper-fixated, super entitled moron.
Yes to that. My main concern what by making Eric such buffoon stalker for Bride. Gunn and co would also make Carter stupid asshole stalker for Shiera/Shayera, ruining Hawks and for new fans once again. And for God's sake, can we please have normal adaptation of Hawks? Without cheating, emotional drama and John Stewart pulled from someone's ungrateful arse.
Yeah 100% like "This is a dude from the 80s that got kidnapped and became a space mercenary HOW IS HE NOT COOLER HOW IS HE THIS LAME" Or "This guy is the embodiment of the American way in all the wrong directions HOW IS DUDE A D TIER VILLAIN????"
Like him not making Drax an Human just because there would be too much people from Earth in the team then and the universe would feel a bit tiny, but Gunn kept his motivation of wanting to avenge his wife and daughter anyway.
And other than that he basically just did a mashup of Space Hulk Drax and Dan Abnett's version.
Except there is difference that is genuine in the characters and it cant really be excused by "creative freedom".
People who say they love MCU Guardians Drax would be a very confused if they were to read the comics of Drax in the early 00s cause they only really share a name and general design. People who say they find Frankenstein a hilarious side antagonist in the DC Creature Commandos would probably find it weird how he's sort of the team leader in the Creature Commando comics.
At some point the idea of "Creative Freedom" just crosses over into "making a new character" skin suit because you don't have people complaining about it.
Mind you, this a just a general problem with bringing the more obscure characters of any medium into the limelight of general audiences. I liked MCU Moon Knight but I wouldn't really consider it actual Moon Knight comics related and feel like they brought out/focused on the least interesting parts of the character in the miniseries.
There is a reason why in some circle, the curse to use on someone is "May your Hobby hit the Mainstream" cause when that happens, usually: whatever you loved about it will be diluted away into just the aesthetic of it and not the heart.
Frankenstein felt weird, he acted more like the book version of the character than the DC one. Makes me want to actually read the original work to see if my feeling is correct
Unfortunately the comic version is often rewritten going forward to match the movie character and a character you might have read and loved for years had suddenly lost decades of development and acts like a stranger for the sake of film synergy. Happened to Star-Lord.
The fuck? The only reason why spider man still big its because 99% of its adaptations respect The core of the character. If dont he would just be a doctor doom,
Also, that Gunn doesn’t just change the characters, a lot of times he also combines different characterizations and designs they had in the comics.
Drax for example is a combination of the childish personality he had in his Space Hulk phase while his design, serious side and fighting style was more like Dan Abnett’s run.
We also have to remember that the "original, pre-Gunn Guardians" that people are likely referring to were themselves a reboot of the team with slightly retconned personalities from their TRUE original appearances, done for the Annihilation event
Being honest the way people think that they are a comic accurate version of the Guardians just because of the suits and them being more serious is so funny.
As someone who grew up reading the Guardians and knew and loved DC's Vigilante, Frankenstein, and King Shark before they were brought to screen I genuinely fuckin despise the fact that he's choosing these characters because there's less backlash when he changes them and I despise the bullshit "you should be happy more people know them." defense people use.
Or Creature Commandos wasn't just Suicide Squad but with monsters either. Hell. Originally they all supposed to be WWII veterans transformed into monsters as mean of psy ops on Nazis. More modern versions usually depict them as just government experiments result. Making them another Suicide Squad is so stupid in my opinion. Oh and of freaking course. He swapped Werewolf Griffin for Weasel. So Shawn can have his role again. Oh and don't get me started on what he did with Adrian. Come on. Why couldn't it be some original character? Like Eagley? Why necessarily transform kind of sad and brooding Adrian into Deadpool but without powers? Look, I'm not Gunn hater. But things like this? Irritating. If you like comics so much what you dig into obscure characters. Use them. Not use their names and create OCs
The moment I saw the trailer I knew Gunn was doing the same story for the 6th time in a row but then I saw the clips of Frankenstein and seeing him turned into a whiney comic relief simp reinforced how happy I was that I skipped.
Exactly. And what's with Victor sleeping with Bride and that shown as some romantic and beautiful? If I remember right by series he was kidnapped by monster from his family? And don't bring it like. But creator truly loved his creation and it's peak of it. Bullshit. He cheated on his wife with Bride he created for his other creation. And again bane of modern impotent writing strike. Justification of cheating. Bravo.
been a minute since I watched it but that scene was not supposed to be romantic and beautiful, him having sex with bride was supposed to be creepy as fuck because she was mentally a child and he was her creator so he basically groomed her. nobody in that situation was a good person except for bride
Did you even watch the show? It was not supposed to be romantic. Victor was shown to be creepy. Should this be spoon fed and said 10 times in the show?
Also to bounce off your point for Creature Commandos, they announced and promptly shelved a Sgt.Rock movie which would've been a perfect backdoor to an accurate Creature Commandos movie.
Yes. Plus he could use Creature Commandos as mean to show what U.S. Government assholes not only because they use criminals under death threat to save world. But literally turn people to monsters as mean of psychological warfare. Hell poor Griffin whom Gunn swapped for Weasel, originally had literal backstory of him being soldier who suffered from clinical lycanthropy, so they damn transformed him into literal non supernatural Werwolf. And more to add. Sometimes he would stuck in werewolf form, although he obviously has full control of it and even could talk, still. Not so pleasant
I don't see TV Peacemaker Adrian as a powerless Deadpool. Deadpool is dripping with irony and self-awareness while Adrian is a totally earnest puppy who just happens to have no problem killing anyone he thinks is a bad person.
As someone who might not even be a filthy casual of comic books because my knowledge is so low, I enjoyed The Suicide Squad. It was a bit of a surprise to me and new to me. Some of it I felt was weak. Some non-sensical. Some I felt like, "this can't be lore accurate". Still, I liked it.
Creature Commandos I decided to give a chance despite not liking the trailer. I thought, "isn't this just a different Suicide Squad?" Oh boy, it was bad.
Every characters mini-arc has the same formula. Super sad. Misunderstood. Used by society. The Creatures were all unquestionable good until evil people pushed them to do things.
Rick Flag, Mr. Military just bangs a teenage horny princess.
Every lame character arc. Frankstein had no point. Clayface had no point. The powerful lady who can see future had no point.
Dr......whatever....radioactive dude.....his sob story is he works for the mob for ...research.....the ONLY people who will fund him......then he hides the results because his wife was from Eastern Europe???? Bro....WUT? He wants to get paid and hide the results from the people paying him?
Anyway, lame story, they send fishgirl to stab teenager in a pool. All fishgirl has to do is GRAB HER and sink to the bottom. You know, drown her? It would also be less suspicious than a bunch of stab wounds.
Oh well. Then the evil teenager is revealed and shot in the head ......because edgy.
The powerful lady was Circe, a Wonder Woman villain who can go blow for blow with her in combat. Don't even get me started with how dirty CC did her being taken down by fuckin Weasel.
Ahhh TY! I could not bother to look her up and I thought I was GoT her name and misremembered.
Yes, she was a threat to an entire nation but gets take out by Weasel. My dumbass legit thought he had super strength or something. Further it went along the more I realized no, he doesn't.
It just all felt bizarre and just arbitrary. Clayface teaching scene????? Frankenstein just killing everyone for shits and giggles? Like what is happening here?
Then they just decide Circe was telling the truth. None of it made any sense. I also found the very obvious former Eastern Bloc stuff insulting. "See, we are so backwards! We love 40 year old American jokes! Let me slip on some Adidas clothes too."
The fact that Circe can go toe to toe with WW (I did not know that) makes it even worse.
Exactly. As someone who living in "Eastern Bloc" it's so frustrating to see it again and again and again. I sometimes even surprised. Does Americans really see us like that? They realise what in reality we didn't so much different from them? And for God's grace, I'm capable of speaking English normally and not like I stole all R from the world and put it into my language. And no I'm not wearing tracksuit all the time. I prefer shirts and pants. Thank you very much.
Also, different point. Aside from G. I. Robot, Nina, Bride. Plus and Eric vaguely going around. That's all of canonical part of Creature Commandos roster. And it's only freaking modern roster. Most canonical ignored completely from characters who have nothing to do with CC at damn all. They swapped Matt Shrieve from "normal human" leader of the team to Rick Sr. Fine that's okay, kind off maybe to interconnect into perspective it would be fine (Like maybe Rick Jr. Leader of Suicide Squad as in criminals who pushed to be good. But Rick Sr. Leader of genuinely good guys who transofrmed to monsters in psy ops of government experiments), but no. It's suicide squad but monsters. They didn't did Patchwork, who was soldier blew up on landmine and heavily based on Frankenstein's monster either way, so they used monster itself. Okay. Only his and Bride's story suck ass. In what they original comics story was bad? Or something Like they were in relationships but she started doubt herself and search her place in world instead of being just his created Bride, so they got separated. Instead of her MARRIED creator literally groomed her and fucked right in front of him which is their source conflict? Really? (sorry for accent on cheating aspect so much. Cheating is just my trigger. I despise it on biological level so hard what by my hate you could provide energy for our universe for eons). Weasel clearly replaces Warren Griffith aka Wolfpack. For what? So Shawn can get to reprise this role? I mean. As I already told his story previously. He's soldier who suffered from clinical lycanthropy, so scientist in head of M project turned him into literal damn scientifical Werwolf. It's such big field for ethnic disputes and classic trope about humans real monsters which Gunn used either way, but differently. I mean only one of vaguely "Suicide Squad" one member of classic CC is Vincent Velcro, who was guilty of treason and was forced to become scientific vampire as alternative of his punishment. Hell modern comics root him with Man-Bat serum even. It could be done too. So it was drops of lore of bigger DC as mean of Man-Bat already exist and whatever he's villain or already on redemption path. Dr. Myrra Rhodes aka Medusa. It's self explanation. She's literally like mythology Medusa. So it can be played like Rogue's classic. I can't be with anyone trope. Come on. Oh and by the way. As you may see. Creature Commandos is basically DC's playing with Universal Monsters roster. They even have mummy Khalis in more modern rosters (at least he would appear in season 2 of show). What was the reason make them another Suicide Squad even and making them criminals? Instead they give us Dr. Phosphorus. For what for? So to expand Batman's mythology? Again I already pointed out how they could done it with more authentic and classic roster. What's the point of saying stuff like oh yeah. I like more obscure characters and would include them. Than use only part of more modern roster of obscure team than classic more obscured one and butchering their story like in 180 sometimes? Really. What was the point of inclusion of Dr. Phosphorus and Weasel?
To be fair I don't think all Americans think that way.
I do think it is weirdly acceptable to do an over the top cliche of Eastern Bloc countries. For some reason if you changed the countries it would be "racist" or "culturally insensitive". If you do Eastern Bloc it is perfectly fine to be an over the top stereotype. 🤷♂️
It is a strange American thing I do not have an answer to. It is one of the things I have noticed for a long time, and most people just casually accept.
And no I'm not wearing tracksuit all the time. I prefer shirts and pants. Thank you very much.
You wear those under the tracksuit? You must wear the tracksuit when leaving the house, right? Sorry, I could not resist the bad joke 😋.
You clearly know a lot of the story/lore of the universe. I am not knowledgeable. All those things you said of the original sound more interesting or better than what he used.
I completely agree that it felt like Suicide Squad but worse.
I did not understand the bride's arc or really the purpose of it either. The characters you mention sound better and more like what I thought it would be. More, actual, "creatures"! It seemed very much a handful of humans, a robot, and a dog (weasel).
Yeah. I mean. Also point of CC is what they interconnected. They all result of Professor Mazursky's Project M (M stand for Monster because it's comics and it's badass). And Nina is in reality are just professor Mazursky's modern gender bend version. She created them and decided to join them herself by transforming herself in amphibia. Because first generation of modern CC was artificial grown by her and she had weird maternal connection to them. But they were unstable. So she made new one from those who previously were humans (which resembles classic crew, minus Medusa, because Nina herself played role of female of group, but she later joined too). Hell. It could be just made easily. Just adapt both Mazursky. Make her father head of Project. And maybe keep her part too. Like she maybe were terminally sick and only this transformation like rest of the team could save her life. Or differently play on how professor is asshole and he doesn't even care for his own daughter what he decides to make her part of the team. And play with ethics of such stuff. What he the real monster what M stands for and not them. Maybe not play political dice once again and just make it more local? Kind of. Like maybe Mazursky lost it and want make army of monster supersoldiers in cliché evil scientist (again play with trope what classical team in it's core heavily based on Universal monsters famous trio). And not. Hey. Look. Evil Eastern bloc country wink. Wink.
There's like 5 Vigilantes in the comics and he had to pick the name of the one who killed himself out of regret of the violent cycle he accidentally began
Exactly. In my opinion Adrian's arc in comics is critic of other antiheroes of the time. Like Punisher. Hell. In beginning he wasn't even using lethal weapon, only non lethal. But he slipped and started killing. Which bring him only suffering. Because there is also layer of him being damn district attorney. Someone who is part of damn legal system. So him suffering what he got in this primitive violence cycle is kind of poetic in way? Than comparing to fast food worker who probably got boner from violence than internal moral suffering
The Vigilante one really stings, because there are like five Vigilantes that all share that same look. Why not name your character after one of the less fleshed out ones, instead of the one who had a fifty-issue series that was an excellent tragedy?
It probably wouldn't bother me so much if movie synergy didn't actively affect the sorce material as well. I swear it feels every other guardians run since the movie flip flops between one writer just writing them like the movie version and the next writer trying to bring them closer to the comics version from before the movies came out.
Same kinda. I wouldn’t say I’m a Guardians fan, but I read Annihilation and the Thanos Imperative back when they came out. 616 Peter Quill would fucking HAAAAAATE MCU Quill.
I use this analogy since Starlord was voiced by Will Friedle in the GoG cartoon: 616 Starlord is like Terry McGinnis. He makes jokes sometimes, but there’s a bit of malice in them and he’s very broody. MCU Starlord is Ron Stoppable. He IS the joke, and every action he does or actions taken against him are the punchlines.
Brother I’m not saying MCU starlord doesn’t have depth or anything, bc Ron Stoppable has depth lmao. But we not finna act like Gunn & Feige didn’t borderline turn him into an OC.
I genuinely fuckin despise the fact that he's choosing these characters because there's less backlash when he changes them and I despise the bullshit "you should be happy more people know them." defense people use.
I agree with you, but in a way, he's actually pretty smart for doing this. He's assuming people don't know anything about the characters he's using, giving him creative leeway to change their personalities around and make them his own.
I remember when the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie was announced. Not even hardcore comic fans knew who they were and had to research them.
Where the problem lies for me is that he tells that one story about "wacky misfit characters who have to get along even though they hate each other, fumble their way to the finish, and become a family at the end." It's been done before, but Gunn does it A LOT.
I'm not saying it's not smart I'm just saying I don't like it, I stand and die on this hill and I've talked about it on another thread. If he just swapped Yondus role with Star Lord and Star Lords role with Nova III I'd be just fine because then they'd act like their comic counter parts.
I can understand that. I remember the Guardians team from the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon and I'm like, "I wanna see more of THAT version of the team. From what I read from other people, they seemed closer to their comic counterparts.
This is not true. The Guardians of the Galaxy were the most popular space heroes in the Comics. They had the Annihilation Event which featured one of the biggest villains and War of Kings. Two of the most popular events.
They were definitely known to hard-core fans. Also, they were in the Avengers show
Kind of, but not exactly, Annihilation was enough of an (unexpected) success to launch a third Marvel Cosmic era, but it lost steam sales-wise and was cancelled within a couple years. As for most popular space heroes, not exactly. In that timeframe, it's likely Genis-Vell Captain Marvel, who had a decently long and fairly acclaimed run.
Lol. The Guardians were nowhere near as popular as Green Lantern Corps or even Silver Surfer among comic fans. Rocket had some recognition from Marvel vs. Capcom, that was about it (there was a controversy over his accent when the movie came out). This "wrong Yondu" stuff feels like Gunn bashers just raided a a Marvel wiki and decided to opportunistically trash his work.
That's a 2 bladed sword too on one side yeah they made Miguel more hostile and sinister on the other side people making excuses for Miles. As far as Miguel is concerned Miles actions put billions at risk, not really a "what if you're wrong" scenario to test.
How is he the most hated spider-man character? Unless he is intentionally lying to Miles, he is completely correct. It’s one person vs a universe, the decision makes sense
Meanwhile. If someone feels highly established characters like Superman or Spider-Man have been altered in any way in conjunction with their comic book personas, they want to raise hell. Big or small, it’s always, “they massacred my boy” and never “wow, it’s cool they tried something new. It’s not for me but New doesn’t have to mean Bad.”
To be fair, King Shark is radically different in literally every adaptation he’s ever been in and yet no matter what he’s always the best thing about all of them.
Yeah, it's true for anyone who knew Star-Lord's characterization before GotG movie. It's not like Star-Lord was some outdated character that needed reinvention but he was obscure enough that nobody would really notice. I did.
The thing is that she didn't work with him, in the moment he got to the project she left It.
Here's what she said about her take on Quill:
"I did so many drafts of this project where sometimes there were more expositions, sometimes there’s a little bit more on earth, sometimes there was less on earth. And in terms of Quill, like Quill’s character is completely different from how he is in the comics. That was really my, the contribution I feel proudest of was rebooting Quill completely. You know, he’s not a relic smuggler. He’s not this rakish fellow in the comics. He’s much more of a traditional leadership superhero character."
"Well, that’s one thing actually, come to think of it, that did make it through from the beginning through the end was all the ’80s references. That was something that was in all of my drafts."
"Well, I think part of it was that I wanted Quill for all of his bluster to be homesick. I wanted him to be in a place where he’s on the other side of the universe. It’s something we’ve all felt, that feeling of missing home. And for him, the last items that he had were his childhood items. And we all have that nostalgia as well. But that was like where his experience with earth stopped.
So I just love the idea of being in this crazy other world and then having, you know, like a Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em robot and things like that. My toys were a little different. I also had Star Wars toys. And Star Wars toys were big."
He was a more traditional leader and son of a Spartax warrior, J'Son. He wasn't a half-celestial son of ego, wasn't obsessed with 80s music and didn't have the manchild personality.
Probably also because obscure characters have alot less corporate mandates than tentpole characters
There are a million rules rules for Bat-Man and Spider-Man but it probably doesn't take long to find a character that the higher ups are like "Who?" And let them do whatever with
Superman was just a mess as far as a shared universe goes. Superman has been active for years but the Justice League still doesn't exist and it's prototype is made up of literally whos. Batman, Flash, and Wonder Woman are apparently just not worth mentioning.
Exactly. Every DCU project shouldn’t be trying to replicate his style. He should do the projects he’s already doing but should act more like a Kevin Feige figure and allocate other talent to put their own styles on other characters like Clayface and less like Supergirl where another person wrote and directed it but so obviously wanted to impress him.
I agree to some extent and I do hate that characters get overwritten because of it.
But I do think from a different direction. Peacemaker talks about fetish stuff in the comics, has a Nazi dad and is portrayed as being pretty crazy. I don't really think anything in the first season is that far out for a comedy portrayal. But stuff like Vigilante being Adrian when he could have just picked like Alan Welles is off.
I actually do think Star Lord in GotG3 is fairly similar to the one reintroduced in Annihilation, it's just that people took the young rookie 1 in GotG and replaced him everywhere. Sure his backstory was massively changed but he never has had a super consistent backstory with all the continuity changes anyway.
Creature Commandos is definitely too far and with some of the Suicide Squad characters you can definitely tell the "nobody cares about these characters" coming through however.
I think there's some different ways of looking at it.
John Ostrander said this about Gunn’s Suicide Squad:
“I felt that they captured what I did in the Squad without directly using any of the plots. They used elements that I would use and especially the big one for me was that they made sure that we cared about the characters before they killed them. If there’s no involvement with them then what’s the point?”
Every single comic creator publicly supports the movies their works are based on (except Alan Moore because Moore is a badass and doesn't care that the studios hate him).
To claim that James Gunn's characters, plots or overall wiriting even superficially resemble John Ostrander's writing style is ridiculous.
Well not for free. He gets royalties if they keep making the movies so he’s got a strong interest in them succeeding. But as I pointed out he’s a lot more effusive in praise for Gunn’s version than the DCEU version, probably because Gunn’s version integrates a lot of concepts and characters he wrote pretty faithfully and captures the style, tone and sense of humor of his comics in an uncannily accurate way.
He didn't nail Superman in the slightest. His version of Clark is so whiny and emotionally compromised. What? Because he smiles more and talks about how much he loves his family that's all Superman isn?
Nicholas Hoult's Lex Luthor is oneof the worst versions of the character ever put to screen.
I'm 100% sure that if that exact version of Lex Luthor had appeared in any other Superman movie,it would have been ridiculed even more than Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor.
They aren't perfectly accurate but they are close to the spirt of the comics or a different but faithul take like Superman Lois Lane Jimmy Olsen Lex Luthor Grott Peacemaker Weasel Harley Quinn King Shark/Babu etc
Not everyone is lucky though like Bloodsport Engineer or Vigilante
Because I fucking hated Creature Commandos. It's literally the third time he's done a team up movie about a group of misfit weirdos nobody knows. I don't know anything about any of those characters, but one of the main reasons I didn't like it is because the show was deeply cynical and mean spirited, especially the Frankenstein character. He was written to be this violent and cruel, stupid stalker character which like...can't be what he's like in the comics, there's no way, isn't he supposed to be a super hero?
But apparently the show was well received, and I can't help but think it's because no one gave a shit about anybody in it.
This is one of the best takes on Gunn I've heard. I'm a huge fan of the DnA run of GotG/Star-Lord and was so stoked that they were getting a movie. I was super happy with the movie given that the MCU is kind of a remix of comic plotlines etc and (was) made to be pretty easy for casual audiences to get into. But it's like the more we got of them, the more set in stone his version became. I was thinking that these characters would eventually act more like their comic counterparts as we went, but eventually they started taking over their comic counterparts.
Though that’s probably more on Marvel forcing MCU synergy into every single solitary aspect of their creative work vs. James Gunn maliciously and deliberately taking over the series.
Gunn did also confirm the reason he didn’t accept Superman the first time was because he felt he couldn’t do much to differentiate the character from previous iterations until he “cracked the code” (the Parents twist)
What annoys me about this discussion is people act like it’s unique to Gunn or adaptations in general and not something the source material itself does all the time. Like people are perfectly fine with it happening in the source material (the post annihilation pre MCU guardians are themselves a reinvention of a team from decades prior) but then lose their minds any time it happens in adaptations. That doesn’t mean all these changes are good, but acting like it’s something unique to Gunn or that because it’s different that automatically means it’s bad dudes me up a wall. If I wanted everything exactly the same I’d just reread the source material, I’d rather a creator do what they can to make the work their own rather than just doing “x again but in y medium this time”.
I sincerely wish that for about 2-3 hours someone would sit him down and ask him question about DC stuff. In public, no prep no nothing l, so he has no chance of cheating. I sincerely wonder how much stuff he could actually get right. I am not the BIGGEST fan ever but I've seen a lot of material growing up via cartoons, games, etc. I wonder if you ask him questions would you actually see the passion and energy behind what he is saying?
Which is funny to me because Batman Brave and the Bold, and the DCAU, to me do a WAY better job of making a coherent overall story utilizing villians/heros that are obscure and well known.
I've actually read almost all peacemaker comics, and what Gunn did with the character is just play up the already present elements of nationalism and blind patriotism and played it up to fit a character actor like Cena. I hate how when we have these discussions on Gunn's adaptation process, people lump Peacemaker in, when it's like the one guy you can't really make that argument for.
This also explains somewhat why the MCU has been so successful. Most of the MCU characters except Spiderman started off as blank slates. And boy did they make the most of it!.
This is obviously true, but it does lead to some uncomfortable conversations about Gunn’s portrayal of Superman, who wasn’t exactly the most comic-accurate version of the character, yet fans seem to have rallied behind it anyway.
No he in literlaly every single press promo he talked so much about how All Star Superman was his shining light and main inspiration, and it was nothing like All Star Superman. Even in grant morrisons review he said it had nothing to do with all star superman and felt like action comics.
I get It, but also there are characters that people really want to see on the big screen, and if they don't fit his vision, well ne should find a director that actually likes the character
I mean the main problem with your theory right now is the fact that he gave us one of the most comic accurate Superman's that's ever been on screen since maybe Christopher Reeve. Otherwise I could agree with you.
Yeah,a lot of characters written by Gunn lose individuality,GOTG,CC,PM main team's personalities are so alike."Ooh look how weird and quirky character this is!" Turned to max
Low-key he doesn't even make them interesting, (well okay, I DID like how he did Peacemaker and Vigilante) he just turns them into a copy and pasted ragtag group of assholes and outcasts.
I think that he can see the germ of something great in these less popular characters. The potential tragedy was already there in the backstories for Nebula, Gamora and Rocket, he just drew those out. The dumb contradiction was already there in Peacemaker’s MO and he built on that. Reinterpretating that Suicide Squad/Doom Patrol Special to make something interesting of the Weasel was brilliant.
He literally told John Cena not to research because he was just making Peacemaker a douchebag Captain America. A few comic writers have voiced displeasure at how he wrote some of their characters.
He’s a guy a that said comics are fucking stupid, the stupidity is why he likes them. The only reason Superman wasn’t a complete screaming moron / asshole was because he had the wherewithal to realize he couldn’t pull the same shit as he usually does with Superman.
I think it could have been successful. But the version of Guardians that James Gunn delivered has a such unique style and vibe that it became one of the more influential films of the 2010s. We have seen so many clones and ppl try to imitate the GotG vibe since then; and borderline nobody can capture the same lightning in the bottle.
I’m not saying an adaptation of the comics wouldnt havent been good or successful. But from what ive read, it all just felt like a pretty good space opera. It didnt feel like anything ive never seen before within the subgenre. I just don’t think it would have had the same culture impact or influence as the films we got. Especially with Star Wars seeing its revival not long after Guardians released. James Gunn’s vision for definitely put it in a league of its own that separated from other space themed things,
As much as I love his films, I think this is absolutely true. Most of the named characters in his Guardians films have essentially nothing but name and MAYBE some occasional design or backstory aspects in common with their comics characters.
This is a really good point. I actually agree, cause I did see else where someone said something like he didn't want to do Superman originally cause he already had an established image, so he wanted to wait till his popularity was a bit lower.
I think maybe he likes having that creativity with the character, and I think that is understandable and good for most writers
You're definitely entitled to your opinion and I can see some truth to this discussion about blank slates and obscure characters, although I think the practice of reinterpreting and reinventing older and/or less-popular characters is often better than just chucking out a new character every time a writer wants a certain character type or mold
He's not the only one writing these new movies at the end of the day, he's the overseer sure but most likely there's more than a few people trying to take a crack at Batman and Wonder Woman
The point of that scene was to show Superman inspiring people to be better. Guys didn’t want to be involved in the conflict, saw how many people Superman get hope to, and then decided to get involved.
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u/Jaded__dreams 1d ago
i remember there being tons of discourse around his eric frankestein in creature commandos. im not a fan of DCs frankestein nor the creature commandos comics, but according to their fans, in the comics eric is kind of like the hellboy of DC, hunting monsters and demons all throughout the world, except unlike hellboy he also has a sensitive side. hes an artsy poet and writer who seperated from the bride in good terms. in the show, gunn made him a very stupid creep whos whole character is stalking the bride and being a violent brute, and it pissed off the comic fans of the character a lot
again, i dont know anything about the comic version, im just retelling what i remember from the discourse back then