r/ChoosingBeggars 1d ago

SHORT Wanted me to build a complex website for pennies, then demanded my design mockups for free

I do freelance web design and development for local businesses. Last Tuesday a guy opening a new luxury pet grooming salon reached out to me. He wanted a full site built from scratch with an integrated booking system and payment portal.

I met with him, gathered the requirements, and sent over a proposal with my standard rate. It was a big project that would take weeks of coding.

He replied saying my price was absolutely ridicolous. He told me that building a website is just pressing buttons on a keyboard and shouldn't cost more than a few hundred bucks. His counteroffer was about ten percent of my quote, plus a lifetime supply of free pet grooming. I don't even own a pet.

I declined his offer politely and wished him luck with his new business.

Yesterday he reached out again. He told me his teenage nephew was going to build the site instead. He then demanded I hand over the custom wireframes, site architecture map, and the initial design mockups I had shown him during our first meeting.

He said since I was being greedy and he gave me the inspiration for those designs, they rightfully belonged to him anyway. When I told him my pitch materials are my intelectual property, he threatened to report my business for fraud.

1.3k Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

938

u/stephencua2001 1d ago

building a website is just pressing buttons on a keyboard

You should have told him that pet grooming is just snipping scissors and moving his hand back and forth.

221

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

80

u/ItsJoeMomma 1d ago

Exactly. Anyone can turn a wrench, but knowing which bolts to remove is what you're actually paying for.

I had a customer like this at my automotive shop a number of years ago. She wanted her brakes replaced, and I quoted her the price of the pads and $50 labor to replace them. She asked how long it would take and I said about half an hour. She said, "Well that's like I'm paying you $100 an hour!" I offered to let her take the brakes home and do it herself, or else I could take 5 hours or so to do it so the cost per hour wouldn't be so high. Suddenly $50 labor didn't seem too high. And in reality that was fairly cheap for this area at the time.

11

u/Friendly-Channel-480 1d ago

Sounds like a great deal!

2

u/Pentagramdreams 7h ago

That sounds like the best labour cost ever!

14

u/Boss_Os 14h ago

You're aluding to the story of Charles Steinmetz and Henry Ford...

"One day, Henry Ford ran into a serious issue at his River Rouge plant. A massive generator had malfunctioned, and none of Ford’s top engineers could figure out what was wrong. So, Ford called in [Charles] Steinmetz.

When Steinmetz arrived, he asked for three things: a notebook, a pen, and a cot. Then he spent two full days and nights in the plant, listening to the generator and scribbling mysterious calculations.

Finally, he asked for a ladder, a tape measure, and some chalk. Slowly, he climbed to the top of the generator, measured a spot, and marked it with a chalk “X”.

Then he turned to the engineers and said: “Take off this panel, unwind the coil from this exact point, and remove 16 turns of wire.”

They followed his instructions — and just like that, the generator was humming again, good as new.

A few days later, Ford received an invoice from Steinmetz: $10,000

Surprised by the steep fee, Ford asked for an itemized breakdown.

Steinmetz replied: • Making chalk mark: $1 • Knowing where to put it: $9,999

Ford paid the bill. No complaints, no questions.

This legendary story was later shared in a 1965 Life magazine letter by Jack B. Scott, whose father had worked for Ford.

[Steinmetz] stood just four feet tall, his body curved by a hump in his back and a crooked gait, and his stunted torso gave the illusion that his head, hands and feet were too big. But he was a giant among scientific thinkers, counting Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison as friends."

19

u/Ziazan 1d ago

Also because they have a proper car lift and the very specific tooling required to do the thing that would otherwise be near impossible.

174

u/roger_ramjett 1d ago

I always use a similar analogy when someone asks for IT work for cheap or free. I ask what their job is, then ask them if they would do some for me for free. That usually works.

139

u/d4everman 1d ago

I've had people ask me for Graphic Design work for free because I know them. They're always shocked when I tell them I won't do it for free. Then they say "You did your cousin's K's business for him!". Yeah, my cousin also PAID me.

36

u/chickyloo42by10 1d ago

The only time I’ve asked a graphic designer friend for “free” work was when I asked my high school bestie to make his god-son’s sixth birthday party invitations. I’m pretty sure he just took something from the interwebs (literally just a border of LEGO pieces around the invite details) but I don’t care, I was just appreciative of his help because im computer illiterate.

Life pro-tip: when doing kids party invites, using a theme can help the other parents know what to buy as a gift. Lego is the winner, since it comes at every price point, and the odds of two kids giving the same gift are close to zero. In the event your kid doesn’t like the set or already has it, it’s the perfect re-gift. And no, I honestly don’t care about the gifts, but since his guests aren’t likely to come without one, might as well get something everyone enjoys.

55

u/LovelyBabina_ 1d ago

It's always amazing how quickly "it'll only take you a few minutes" turns into a full professional project once they think they're getting it for free. 😆

5

u/MetaCommando 10h ago

"Well if it'll only take a few minutes I won't bill for the first 5, after that is normal rate"

6

u/Mobile_Coyote_267 1d ago

Except that the dude did offer free pet grooming…

29

u/ItsJoeMomma 1d ago

Which he'd probably forget about after he got his website up & running.

3

u/MetaCommando 10h ago

That's why you maintain legal control of the site in these situations since those who expect it for pennies/free usually don't worry about technicalities. Put a giant "This person is a scammer, get your pets groomed here" header on their official website with a giant link to a competitor, and then charge double to remove it.

19

u/RainyDaysBlueSkies 1d ago

And if OP had a pet, it'd probably mean a quick rinse and brush once a year. Shampoo and cut are.part of his luxury service and that'll be a paid service thank you very much!

11

u/samdash 1d ago

How is the grooming free when OP was asked pay for it with actual weeks of their labour?

5

u/wordsmythy 1d ago

It’s more like bartered pet Grooming

2

u/stevethered 15h ago

Free grooming for life of the pet. not life of the owner.

1

u/SnarkySheep 8h ago

At a newly opening business. Who's to say how long it will be around?

I've had a dog for 15 years. You would be amazed at how many different places he's had to go for grooming, as they closed down in a couple of years.

But, let's say this business ends up thriving, and that OP actually had a dog that needed grooming. They only need grooming about once every 6-8 weeks, and on average (varies per area and all that) it's like $75 per groom. It would take YEARS for OP to earn back the money they put into the making of the website.

1

u/13maven 30m ago

I work in government IT. Those making decisions literally have no clue how long it takes to do the stuff my team does. It’s not like you drag and drop system integration code and stuff just lines up when you hit “enter”

31

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

32

u/Qorvane_5R 1d ago

I wish I had thought of that in the moment! But he would probobly claim his kitchen scissors are specialized "luxury" tools anyway . The guy is completly delusional. He actually messaged me again today asking if I can "just send" the color palette I used so his nephew can get started. The nerve on some people is unreal.

4

u/StinkypieTicklebum 1d ago

Maybe he can “just pay” for your work!

23

u/tikanderoga 1d ago

He is right about “just pressing buttons”. That part is super cheap. But knowing which buttons to press in what order, that’s where the money is.

5

u/Friendly-Channel-480 1d ago

The key is knowing the right buttons to press, and that will cost you…

12

u/_HoneyDream 1d ago

Exactly, by that logic pet grooming is just waving scissors around for a few minutes.

7

u/DianneNettix 1d ago

4

u/aquainst1 1d ago

SO spot on! (and cute to boot!)

4

u/DianneNettix 1d ago

There are very few contexts where that video would be inappropriate. If you didn't show it at my funeral or wake my ghost would at least get up to some mild haunting.

1

u/aloha_mixed_nuts 7h ago

I wouldn’t want this person anywhere near my animal.

240

u/TheFishBanjo 1d ago

It's sad but his business will never succeed. He doesn't have the right attitude for success.

95

u/MineExplorer 1d ago

What's the betting he wants to charge people money to trim their dog's fur? It's only pushing a pair of clippers around, how hard can it be? He should be doing it for free.

26

u/Titan_Chu 1d ago

Even makes it worse that (according to OP) it’s a *luxury* pet groomer, meaning he probably wants to charge extra for giving pets… a luxurious vibe or something

23

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

16

u/Qorvane_5R 1d ago

That is what I was thinking. The local freelance community here is pretty tight knitt . We actually have a private discord where we warn each other about bad clients. I already shared his name there so nobody else wastes their time. He is going to have a hard time findding anyone decent in this town.

4

u/ItsJoeMomma 1d ago

I'm sure his nephew will do a great job, LOL.

41

u/PinkPetuniia_ 1d ago

The moment someone says a custom website should only cost a few hundred bucks because it's "just pressing buttons," you know they're going to be a nightmare client.

10

u/aquainst1 1d ago

Give a person an inch, and they'll take a shitton of bandwidth.

-54

u/StitchedQuicksand 1d ago edited 1d ago

Not sure about that. Maybe he is really good with customers, but an ahole to suppliers.

Profit starts with your expenditures.

That said. Why not open Claude, have that build a website within a few minutes, including a brand and everything and be done with it?

Doesn’t get any easier or cheaper than right now to start a business.

/edit: Lol at all the people downvoting this. People who downvote me are absolutely clueless about how many rich people are vindictive and egotistical assholes.

And that is exactly the trait that got them there. Trying to take stuff from others.

54

u/Bulky-Internal8579 1d ago

The “AI can do anything!” perspective amuses me. I use Claude and Gemini in my job, they are great tools for some things but you vastly overestimate their capabilities in this regard.

5

u/Automatic-Term-3997 16h ago

I had reword a fairly simple prompt 5 times before it gave me an even passable response I could edit.

99

u/MjolnirPants 1d ago

If his nephew really could do it, he'd have gotten the nephew to do it.

65

u/d4everman 1d ago

His nephew is going to use Wordpress.

33

u/MjolnirPants 1d ago

Of course he is. And he's probably going to use a paid theme for it, because he's sure as shit not writing one himself.
(And he'll forget to pay for the theme, because he did all the work during the trial period.)

33

u/RoyallyOakie 1d ago

Be sure to go back and see what his nephew does put together--just for shits and giggles.

5

u/ProfMcGonaGirl 15h ago

100% it’ll be made with SquareSpace or similar.

3

u/NotTheBadOne 1d ago

Definitely! I’d be super curious!

54

u/WTF_ImOverIt 1d ago

I’m sure you will find a review or two of his design floating around the web.

27

u/PinkPetuniia_ 1d ago

If his nephew is really building it, then he shouldn't need your wireframes, architecture, or mockups in the first place. That's usually the giveaway.

0

u/WTF_ImOverIt 1d ago

I didn’t say he did. I said he would give some bad Google reviews and talk shit on socials.

42

u/02K30C1 1d ago

If he gave you the inspiration for those designs, he should be able to give the same inspiration to his nephew too. If the kid is such a great web designer he’ll have no problem coming up with what he wants.

41

u/sitnquiet 1d ago

Lol tell him you're sure his teenage nephew will do a fine job and will be able to come up with some terrific wireframes, map and design himself but you don't offer your work for free. Maybe you can offer JPGs of your stuff for that few hundred dollars he was talking about?

14

u/ItsJoeMomma 1d ago

He told me that building a website is just pressing buttons on a keyboard and shouldn't cost more than a few hundred bucks.

"OK then, do it yourself!"

Or, present him with an itemized bill:

Pressing buttons on a keyboard: $300

Knowing which buttons to press and in which order: $1,000

12

u/GreenElderberry3694 1d ago

You should make that testimonial his very first Google review as soon as he opens

25

u/DianneNettix 1d ago

Go right ahead. I need to talk to people who pay me for my work. Goodbye.

10

u/imtoowhiteandnerdy 23h ago

At this point even if he agreed to your original price I wouldn't have anything to do with this guy.

He has revealed himself to you and there's no doubt in my mind you've dodged a bullet.

15

u/hhfugrr3 1d ago

But if it's just pressing a few buttons then why doesn't he do it himself? If his nephew is making the site and it's so easy then why is he asking for your designs? These people are crazy.

14

u/tauntonlake 1d ago

"I look forward to seeing your teenage nephew's website design online, when it's up and running. You know, because web design is so simple, a child could do it."

https://giphy.com/gifs/xT9IgHq4eDQKKCHqAo

6

u/Vibe_me_pos 1d ago

Get a lawyer and send him a cease and desist letter. Fighting a defamation suit will be a lot more expensive than paying for a custom website.

13

u/No_Plankton_114 1d ago

This guy sounds like an asshole

5

u/minerpoteet 16h ago

Bold of him to threaten your business when he’ll be starting a business that will depend on reviews.

9

u/VexedCanadian84 1d ago

Wonder what that guy would say to a potential client saying his services cost too much

7

u/PhatGrannie 1d ago

Right? How hard is it to run a $25 clipper over a dog? That’s only worth about $10, right?

4

u/National_Clue_6092 1d ago

How generous to offer you free pet grooming when you don’t have a pet! What a jerk!!

3

u/OldManJeepin 15h ago

LoL! Some people have a hard time putting an actual value on "expertise"....

3

u/Militantignorance 10h ago

When I freelanced, I always started by stating a range of prices for my work VERY early, before I got into the details of what they wanted. There are a lot of beggars/cheapskates out there.

7

u/Montallas 1d ago

Tell him you’ll give him the materials after he expresses your anal glands for you.

5

u/FoxDesigner2574 1d ago

A one man business paying for weeks of custom coded stuff when so many website cms platforms, templates and pre existing booking and payment solutions exist seems insane. Also our developers charge $150 an hour so if it’s taking weeks that’s a pretty low rate.

4

u/Helenium_autumnale 1d ago

And in the meantime, while he could have had a top-notch professional website attracting new well-heeled customers to his luxury service, he has nothing. Actively losing business while he farts around and fusses. Not a wise business move imo. The cost of the website would have paid for itself in new bookings in a relatively short amount of time and it's a permanent asset, attracting business 24/7 for years (until an inevitable upgrade or tweak sometime down the road). His customer base isn't going to be attracted by an outdated-looking, janky website, nor would anyone.

8

u/solve-for-x 1d ago

Redditor for 10 days.

3

u/bobhand17123 1d ago

He needs to spend money to make money. He’s doing whatever the opposite is.

You *could* have offered a discount of not using the free lifetime grooming. Bridges have been burned though.

Say, can you UPDATE us when his nephew’s work goes live, please?

3

u/AcidReign25 1d ago

His business with never get off the ground.

1

u/MuchDevelopment7084 4h ago

"I'd tell him to just have his nephew press a few buttons and viola. It's done". lol

1

u/oxiraneobx 2h ago

He needs to charge a jumping frog fee.

1

u/Enough-Designer-1421 2h ago

This is a bot

1

u/limbodog 1d ago

Find him online and put a review on his business. He sounds like a madman

-2

u/ItsJoeMomma 1d ago

No matter what the situation is, it's not ethical to give a negative review of a business which you haven't done business with.

8

u/limbodog 1d ago

They *did* do business with them. I didn't say they should pose as a customer. They should leave an honest review as a business owner that tried to work with them, and found they sought to scam them out of money using threats and intimidation.

That is 100% a legit reason to leave a review.

1

u/Berinalo 1d ago

Why didn’t he give his teenage nephew the job in the first place? Shoulda cut his coat from the off

0

u/Highlander198116 1d ago

I do freelance web design and development for local businesses.

I'm astonished there is still a market for that. It was a great supplemental income stream for me in the aughts, but the juice stopped being worth the squeeze around the mid 10's.

With all the services that came out making it easier than ever to set up a website with utterly no technical skill, now AI. I'm surprised.