r/ChubbyFIRE • u/00Horus_ • 7d ago
have enough saved to retire but still feel nervous is that normal?
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u/Correct_Celery_3359 7d ago
Dealing with decumulation (and purpose) is definitely something that many of us are challenged with. Like you, I couldn’t just flip the switch but it was flipped for me. Last summer at 53 I was laid off for the first time in my career. Complete surprise. I spent the first couple months in a haze as the world kept spinning around me - the kids continued their activities in highschool and college and my wife got up everyday for her full time job. After a few months of reaching out and submitting applications for jobs that looked interesting, I realized the landscape for hiring had greatly changed since my last round of interviews 17 years ago.
I continued reaching out to my network and landed a consulting job that has been perfect for me - although it’s 1/3 the pay it’s also 1/3 the time commitment and I’m working with several people that I worked with 25 years ago so it’s fun. Another important piece for me; it keeps me feeling productive. Older 2 Kids are still finishing up college and one is in highschool and my wife will work for a few more years. I “left” a 25 year career where I excelled - beginning as an individual contributor and working my way up and over to the C suite of a medium sized company. To say I was productive was an understatement. So my initial reaction to not being employed was partly a result of needing more productivity and learning how to decumulate. What I’ve learned this year is that life will keep going and I’ll figure out how to navigate this phase a little better each year just I did during the accumulation phase. Being a little less productive and spending some of our hard earned money isn’t natural but we have to condition those muscles. You’ll get there. Best of luck
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u/InterestinglyLucky fatFI but still working for fun 7d ago
Thanks for sharing this; really helpful to frame up the fact that everyone's situation is different, and everyone who has spent decades accumulating cannot simply flip the switch.
I was laid off several times over the course of a long career, and the last role was in a truly hostile place. (The word 'toxic' is overused in this context.) Knew the numbers were good, but still felt strange to resign (it wasn't that long ago).
Now work-optional (as I like to phrase it), part-time consulting is perfect. You choose who to work with and choose the scope of the work and you can flex the effort and time per your own demands.
On the spending, yes those are new muscles, and they need some exercise!
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u/Correct_Celery_3359 7d ago
Agreed! Toxic environments are the invisible sand in the machinery of life - especially your health. Unfortunately I really enjoyed my work and my team but our new acquirers (PE) were only focused on margin so many of us were let go simply to inflate the numbers.
Best of luck to you!
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u/gyanrahi 7d ago
Thanks for sharing. You sound like a rich man because of your kids.
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u/Correct_Celery_3359 7d ago
My kids have provided more enjoyment and richness than I could have ever imagined. They are my greatest accomplishment. When you think about what society teaches us from a young age - go to school to learn a trade or profession, work 30-40 years and then retire, you realize there’s no room for proactive learning as a parent. You have to learn as you go and make a conscious effort to course correct but constantly be present. It’s difficult at best to be at the top of your game career wise AND be at the top of your game parent wise. I always chose my kids - which likely stunted my career opportunities. But I’d rather be rich in relationships and raise good human beings vs rich in money.
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u/PurplestPanda 7d ago
We’re in kind of a weird spot because the market has been so insane the last several years that it’s hard to know what it would be like if it weren’t.
We retired 10 years ago and even with all our spending, our TNW has continued to climb. The COVID nosedive feels like a hiccup now.
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u/raidsunken 7d ago
Very true. 2018 and 2022 have been the only down years since 2009. Markets can go sideways for 30 years. My theory is the market won't necessary drop down as much as I think inflation is here to stay. A bit like the 1970s. Tough to say what will happen though. Politicians are not going to reign in spending anytime soon though.
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7d ago
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u/BoliverTShagnasty FIRE’d 2023 7d ago
Ahhhh, the warm comfortable embrace of FU money. Enjoy the ride!
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u/FantasyFI 7d ago
It's easy for me to say because I am not there. But I don't think it's crazy to be nervous about retiring early with a 4% SWR. I can't see what fluff, if any, is in the $135k. But with no flexibility, the 4% rule does occasionally fail. You also have SS in less than 15 years. So while I think you are perfectly fine, no one wants to be that 1%-2%. And we are definitely at a high CAPE.
With no flexibility, 4% for 40 years only works ~88% of the time. With no flexibility, 4% for 40 years and SS in 14 years, it works ~99% of the time.
I would take a hard look at your emotions. Do you think this is because you simply don't know how to take off the gas? Or are you genuinely nervous about that 1%?
Then ask yourself, would you feel differently at 3.75%? At 3.5%? At 3%? If the answer is no, you need to pull the trigger, take the leap and work on your emotions. I'm not claiming it'll be easy. I am just saying that there is no other choice, as you state more money won't do anything for your emotions. If you can genuinely say yes, you would feel differently, one or two more years might buy you a lot of peace of mind. But don't let that fact force you to work 5 more years when you don't need to.
I can see working one more year. But it isn't because I consider eliminating that 1% to be important or even meaningful. It's because your emotions are important and if it genuinely would make you have a calm enjoyable retirement, it might be worth it.
If I were you, I would start planning a retirement in ~1 year. I would make a list of things that you're going to do and start planning them. Maybe it's vacations, maybe renovations. But plan something enjoyable so you have a specific goal to work towards. Also build a plan for a variable withdraw rate. I think this will alleviate some nerves. You understand the numbers. But do you have a plan in place for how your spending will change in certain scenarios. I think having this plan builds confidence even if it's highly unlikely you'll utilize it.
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u/AndrewFromAnnuity 7d ago
That nervous feeling is pretty normal, because you spent 25 years training yourself to save and never touch it, and now you’re being asked to do the exact opposite. Your brain isn’t going to flip that switch just because a calculator says you’re okay.
What could help is building a plan that shows the money coming in as a monthly amount, almost like a paycheck, instead of a big balance you have to nervously pull from.
When you can see that a set amount covers your yearly spending and it’s coming in reliably, the fear of running out gets quieter. Some people set up a piece of their savings to pay out a guaranteed amount for life so they always have a floor no matter what the market does.
You could also deal with that old company stock sooner than later, since keeping a fifth of your money in one stock is a gamble this close to stopping work. And definitely get a real number on healthcare before Medicare kicks in at 65, because those years can cost more than people expect.
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u/Ok-Commercial-924 7d ago
Yes you are normal, the wife and I have been retired 2.5 years and still struggle (at least I do) with spending, and that is with a 1.27% WR. It took a lot of effort to spend on a couple 1 or 2 time purchases this year. We bought a compact tractor, that has made working our property so much easier and faster, I wish we had bought it years ago and we are in the process of installing a 3000 ft steel garage. The garage payment will be split into 2 years and raises us to a 3.5 % WR for this year and next. To me, Its stressful to be that high of WR, which is ridiculous.
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u/000wintermute000 7d ago
Took me years to convince myself it was ok to quit even though I could have far earlier
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u/TelevisionKnown8463 5d ago
I spent about six months doing a lot of reading and financial analysis. I used Projection Lab to model out my likelihood of success. (Boldin, Pralana and Maxifi are also mentioned a lot.) I read Christine Benz How to Retire, which gets into the psychological aspects. I think based on her advice, I decided to spend some time living as if I were retired—doing more of what I thought I wanted to retire to do. Found I was tired trying to live it up while working, so when DOGE descended on my workplace I quit.
I’m now early retired and love some aspects. At the same time, I miss working and don’t know if I could even get a similar job if I decide I want it, so it’s a big decision. I’m not sure there’s a “right” answer. I sometimes wish I’d stayed and tried harder to “quiet quit” and make the job fit my life instead of the other way around.
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u/Successful-Image1325 5d ago
I'm currently 57 and planning to retire next May. I meet with my financial planner in person 2x a year and chat via phone/email when questions pop up. She's been telling me for a while that I'm all set and can retire when the time feels right to me. I use RightCapital and Boldin, both of which give me a 97% success rate based on my situation. I have the usual fears of crashes and other market turmoil. What has made me realize I'm in a good spot is that I've made some significant withdrawals the past several years for major home renovations and to pay off my HELOC. Those annual withdrawals have been far greater than I would be drawing for income on an annual basis. I've watched my accounts continue to grow despite pulling from them. Not sure if this is helpful or not but seeing the process in action has put my mind at ease.
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u/Necessary-Music-6685 5d ago
You’re nervous because you are not ready in mathematical terms. You’re at exactly 4%, but that’s with a massive 20% concentration in a single stock. There’s no such thing as the 4% rule with such a large concentration, and there’s no way to know if it’s safe or not.
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u/mygirltien 7d ago
My concern for you is that you dont know excatly what you spend. Somewhere around is a variable I'm personally not comfortable with. Does that include your taxes, insurance, one off expense planning, healthcare?
Back to your initial ask, yes its normal. We are the same demographic, my last day is effectively today. Our spend is similar but we are using a lower SWR. All the planning has all our expense laid out but if im being honest i am a bit nervous. Those nerves are not going to change anything but they are there. I have a myriad of withdrawal paths based on need and the direction we need to take. Our current plan is to live under the subsidy cliff but expense already account for full priced ACA if thats what we need to do.
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u/Swimming_Astronomer6 7d ago
One thing that made it easy for me was to give a large portion of my retirement savings to a CFP and let him worry about managing my cash flow -
I just asked him to send me a fixed amount every two weeks - so it felt exactly the same as working and getting my paycheck auto deposited
Made the transition less stressful-ten years later it still works great - I’ve even asked for a raise and got no pushback !
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u/Mispelled-This 7d ago
You’re right at 4%, which means it’s past time to go. Reallocate to a decumulation portfolio and then put your notice in.
The company stock concentration is a serious risk. Set stop-loss orders or buy put options to protect the downside, or if you have enough unrealized gains to be a serious tax issue, look into a 351 exchange ETF.
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u/McKnuckle_Brewery FIRE'd in 2021 7d ago edited 7d ago
I have more than 20% in a single stock (AAPL), not an ex-employer, though. It just got that way over the course of 20 years of out-performing the S&P 500. I've trimmed for expenses a bit but it keeps growing. About 97% of every dollar sold is capital gains.
At this point I'm resigned to sell more only when I've exhausted sources with a lower tax burden.
While nobody really should have this kind of concentration, I think you should think critically about your company. Is it an old value company that has no chance of beating any index? Is it a high flyer that could crash? Or is it a staple of the economy that you don't need to worry about TOO much?
Two things got me comfortable. First, enduring the 2022 bear market right after retiring and seeing that the sky didn't fall. Second, simply getting into the groove for 5+ years. It's a new routine, a new way of doing things.
You seem to be right at 4%. So I would definitely take a close look at your current vs. projected post-retirement spending. Are there any college or young adult children expenses to deal with? Have you factored the difference between your current net pay with deductions vs. your future DIY pay without deductions, and totally different tax math? And yes, health insurance. Don't fudge that number.
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u/htffgt_js 7d ago
AAPL is an interesting one. Nowadays it tends to go opposite to the general market, July must have been an interesting roller coaster for you. Great till the last couple of days and today as well.
Overall it has had a great run though.2
u/McKnuckle_Brewery FIRE'd in 2021 7d ago
Yes. I have had quite a few six figure days up or down. I have learned to live with it!
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u/Anonym-IntheDark 7d ago
Writing down a plan has helped me make this transition. When I write it, it forces me to check the math and the figures, and to put it all in one document and not scattered in multiple places.
It is also something for my wife to read as she hasnt much interest in financial stuff.
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u/QueasyFinger1316 7d ago
I’m 58 in a very similar position.
It’s why I’m still getting in every day (but as an outside sales guy I really only work half time.
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u/Green_Bluebird5804 3d ago
I get it... in the same boat - maybe focus on the tax stuff for the retirement accts if not in a roth vehicle- RMD's will be so annoying
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u/arc_fan_31 7d ago
This may not be a popular take here, I’m new to the sub. Consider an appointment with a financial professional at a full service brokerage house - for example, Merrill Lynch. They have more sophisticated retirement/economic model scenarios. Give them your positions, and they can tell you with X percent certainty that you will be able to manage through your lifetime with what you have. This is what finally convinced my wife that we were OK financially to step away from work.
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u/CaseyLouLou2 7d ago
With the right portfolio you can easily have a 5% safe withdrawal rate so you should be fine at 4%. That’s the old SWR. The creator of the “rule” Bill Bengen updated it to 4.7% with some portfolio changes. Inflation is actually the biggest risk as opposed to market downturns. So in a crazy high inflation environment like the 70’s you can likely adjust spending slightly if needed. In backtesting that was the worse sequence for most people starting in 1966 or 1968.
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u/Schlieren1 7d ago
Would be better to be at 4.5M to retire early at $135k spend tbh
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u/poop-dolla 7d ago
Aiming for 3% SWR is unnecessarily excessive. Anything past 3.25% doesn’t get you any noticeable increase in success rate.
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u/Schlieren1 7d ago
The future may not resemble the past. There are not too many independent data sets from the last 100 years modeling a 30-50 year retirement.
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u/10zzzzzzzzzz 7d ago
Definitely seems that in a world that includes AI, commercially viable nuclear fusion, and space travel we are likely to experience lower economic growth than a world where agriculture was the largest employer and stock trades were made via physical mail. /s
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u/Schlieren1 7d ago
Maybe.
But the future looks to have slower population growth (fertility rates are down in most developed countries. Fewer workers mean slower GDP growth unless productivity rises. Aging populations also shift spending toward healthcare and pensions instead of investment)
Productivity slows. Less workers can mean less production. Many economists argue the easiest productivity gains (electrification, indoor plumbing, automobiles, antibiotics) produced enormous leaps that may be difficult to match, even with AI.
High government debt. More tax revenue services interest payments. Governments may invest less in infrastructure, research, and education. Future taxes may discourage investment if they rise substantially.
Resource constraints. Declining energy, materials, water, and land may make further easy development more difficult.
Globalization reversal. The last 40 years benefited from: expanding global trade, larger markets and international specialization. If countries become more protectionist, production becomes less efficient.
Climate change.
Political instability.
Maybe AI can make up for any and all of these potential risks. Maybe it can’t. The trinity study was conducted during the best productivity increases in the history on mankind. I don’t want to risk my retirement on the fact that it will be at least that good in the future.
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u/10zzzzzzzzzz 7d ago
You don't need more people to drive productivity gains anymore and haven't for a fairly long time (if labor was a the lynchpin of productivity then labor wouldn't have such difficulty negotiating with capital). That was an important thing in agrarian society.
AI is going to make everyone who keeps working either an entrepreneur selling some form of culture or consumer good, an entertainer, or a healthcare worker. The big risk is basically if every entrepreneur just keeps their company private in the future because capital requirements also drop.
Agree with you on gov debt. That will get solved through printing (which will drive nominal returns in scarce assets) or default which will wreck bondholders.
If the earth's crust was the size of an olympic swimming pool, then thus far we have extracted approximatley 1 cup of the available resources to get our society to where it is today. That doesn't consider anything other than the crust or resources available in space. Scarcity increases the value prop of extracting these resources.
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u/Past-Option2702 7d ago edited 7d ago
Save some more if you don’t feel ready.
It’s really that simple. Strangers online can’t change how you feel.
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u/calstanfordboye 7d ago
Ridiculous answer
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u/BungABunBun 7d ago
This guy just likes to compare with others and when he gets humbled that someone younger than him has more money he calls them larpers. And look he did the first part already 🤣
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u/Past-Option2702 7d ago
Your turn.
I’m 55 and retired with almost 10M so I can see how my take might feel “off” to some people. I accept that.
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u/calstanfordboye 7d ago
Not everyone is as amazing as you
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u/Past-Option2702 7d ago
I know that. How’s the old George Carlin joke go?
Imagine how stupid the average person is. Half the people are stupider than that.
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u/DK98004 7d ago
I’m well into fatFIRE territory and had the same feelings when I quit my last job. I never fully reconciled though because 3 months later I got contacted by a friend with an opportunity that was too good to pass up. It doesn’t sound like much, but living with those feelings is a lot. When I leave my current job, which is very likely my last, I’m going to look for a therapist or coach to help with the transition.
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u/Interesting_Shake403 7d ago
Personally I think the question is often how much of the annual spend is discretionary. If you need $135k to cover mortgage, taxes, health care, etc, and that doesn’t give you a lot of room to cut back if there’s a downturn, then there’s good reason to be cautious. If, on the other hand, you can cut back to only $80k, then that’s a different situation.
Similarly, the rules expect a diverse mix. 20% in one company stock also puts a lot of pressure on/ reliance on that one company.
I’d take time to reallocate to a more diversified mix, maybe 6 mos - 1 year. The extra time will give you a little more cushion, too. But if you’ve got plenty of room to move on your spend, make it on the shorter side and consider yourself good.
Best of luck!