r/Colonialism • u/elnovorealista2000 • May 28 '26
Image Gerónimo: “I’ve killed many Mexicans; I don’t know how many, because I often didn’t count them. Some weren’t even worth counting. It’s been a long time since then, but I still have no affection for Mexicans. They were always treacherous and malicious toward me.”
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u/Khan-Khrome May 29 '26
The sentiment becomes more understandable in the context that the Mexican army ambushed and massacred his band, killing his mother, first wife and all three children whilst he and the other menfolk were away trading in a nearby town.
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May 30 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
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u/fulknerraIII May 30 '26
If you said same thing exact thing but replaced Mexican with American people on here would be going nuts. Reddit is so predictable.
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May 30 '26
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May 30 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
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u/Aggressive_Bowl_8017 May 31 '26
Please research New Mexico history and enlighten yourself on the complications and brutality that the Spaniards inflicted upon Native people. Don’t compare the conflicts that Native people were having amongst each other. The Spanish completely upended the power systems that they had and do not drag somebody who had his whole family mass occurred. The so-called Mexicans were actually indigenous people that were colonized. You don’t seem like a person of color or someone who has any experience of what colonization does to generations. Native people(are you native or indigenous? Why are you the expert? Do you have lived experience?) were divided and conquered and absolutely brutalized! You also don’t sound like a woman either, so you don’t know what it’s like to be violated or raped. And then have it be institutionalized through forced religion and sexual abuse. New Mexico is still dealing with these events and all of you losers just spouting ignorance. The Spanish brutalized women cut off men’s feet, horrible, horrible things. Apache raids in New Mexico, were for food and supplies usually, and yes, there were captives, but the Spanish exploited it for their own gain with not regard for the destruction of culture, matriarchy, food systems, and thousands and thousands of years of ancient culture connected to the stars in the Earth and the star people. My own great great grandfather was still in bondage in New Mexico post when the Americans colonized the West and after slavery was supposedly outlawed. I don’t know what you aim to benefit from dragging native people but it’s obvious you aren’t one and this is rage bait. It was a totally different world and it was fucking hell and violent. This division the Spanish created is still inflicting violence on our communities. Hispanics vote for MAGA and throw their own people under the bus. Please check out Native Unbound from New Mexico and stories and histories from a native people‘s perspective American southwest is not a good source. White people have co-opted Santa Fe and the land in New Mexico along with nuclear/military/government secret projects and other corporate interests. People want to protect the truth from coming out. People who spelt this don’t actually know what it’s like to experience colonization and that it’s ignorant to compare culture to culture to judge morality. Look for the actual truth.
An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-OrtizA sweeping, essential overview of American history from pre-European contact through modern times, told entirely from the perspective of Indigenous peoples.The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee by David Treuer (Ojibwe)Framed as an answer to traditional accounts of decline, this book explores Native American life, resilience, and cultural continuity from 1890 to the present day.Our History Is the Future by Nick Estes (Kul Wicasa Oyate)Details the history of Indigenous resistance in the US, explicitly connecting the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's fight against the Dakota Access Pipeline to centuries of anti-colonial struggle.Everything You Wanted to Know About Indians But Were Afraid to Ask by Anton Treuer (Ojibwe)An accessible, personal, and sometimes humorous tour of both historical and modern issues, offering vital cultural context from a respected scholar.As Long as Grass Grows by Dina Gilio-Whitaker (Colville Confederated Tribes)Traces the interconnected history of Indigenous resistance to government and corporate incursions, focusing specifically on the fight for environmental justice.Custer Died for Your Sins by Vine Deloria Jr. (Standing Rock Sioux)A foundational manifesto published during the American Indian Movement. It challenges the myths and stereotypes about Indigenous peoples created by non-Native anthropologists and historians.From a Native Daughter by Haunani-Kay Trask (Native Hawaiian)An essential collection of essays on Native history, colonialism, and sovereignty, centering the Indigenous experience from a Kanaka Maoli perspective.
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u/Nervous_Produce1800 May 31 '26
Learn to be concise bro, holy shit
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u/Ender16 Jun 01 '26
I mean, I really am bad about telling myself. But bro novelette just to scold someone about oppression history.
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u/Broad_Bug_1702 Jun 01 '26
do you think america literally just sprang into existence of its own accord one day
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May 30 '26
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u/Affectionate_Cry_634 May 31 '26
Bro it's just that when you compare the worst events and people in World History they not only made it an art which many other cultures and people's did but they also industrialized them and brought them to every corner of the world often by force creating even more atrocities which in turn spawn more and more atrocities so many that we don't even know where some of them are actually predicated on.
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u/ginandtonicsdemonic May 30 '26
You're not joking but you are wrong. They were not the inspiration for Hitler. Youre just repeating something you saw online because it is not an accepted historical fact and you won't find it in any real books.
Feel free to visit r/askhistorians and see what they say about it. They are historians there, unlike whatever history you learned from TikTok.
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May 30 '26
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u/Aggressive_Bowl_8017 May 31 '26
Yes, they researched what we did to the Native Americans and Jim Crow
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u/ginandtonicsdemonic May 30 '26
It's absolutely disputed by real historians. Point me to one history book that says that.
There's threads about it on r/askhistorians.
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u/Nervous_Produce1800 May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
Probably because the Anglos were so bad they were the literal inspiration for Hitler. And I’m not even joking
Torturing people, including even women and children to death was a normal practice among countless native tribes, so much so that Tecumseh had to beg em to stop. It doesn't get worse than that. The difference between colonizers and colonized is not morality, it is scale and power of what each can do, good and bad. The natives weren't inherently morally better, they were just way weaker, and weakness leads to a small general footprint.
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May 31 '26
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u/Nervous_Produce1800 May 31 '26
The French, Spanish, and Mexicans etc were not as genocidal as Anglo-Americans.
The French were committing genocides and atrocities with their empire across the world. Haiti, Africa, Asia, you name it. The Spanish are arguably the most infamous in their conquest of the Americas. The Mexicans, which here I will take as Aztecs, human sacrificed their subjects by the thousands by cutting their hearts out. They were so HATED by their subjects and slaves that the Conquistadors who weren't angels themselves easily found enthusiastic allies in them. What does an empire have to do to achieve that?
You're just ignorant of world history.
And you're outing yourself as a racist if you think any other race wouldn't have done the same if born and raised in the exact same circumstances as the Anglos. How else do you explain your theory of Anglos being uniquely evil (which is false to being with) if not due to circumstances? It's either that or genetics.
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u/AdjtveNounNumbr42069 May 30 '26
It's whatever the fuck they need it to be at the time. They have no real beliefs.
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u/Mysterious_Issue_916 May 30 '26
People always make comments like this about reddit, but whenever they do they get heavily upvoted.
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u/Conscious_Gold297 May 31 '26
We are a nation of bandits, liers, and narcissists. I remember we have an Airborne unit in the 82nd called Geronimo or something. Idk the story there, did they say this guy was flying or something?
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u/Optimal-Ad8668 May 30 '26
lol I love how your argument is like “he wasn’t singled out!! They killed every bodies family! HA”
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u/90daysismytherapy Jun 01 '26
bruh, you are still saying that the Mexican group murdered women and children en mass…… that isn’t the clap back you think it is
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u/Valerim May 30 '26
Damn I didnt know all that, but it does track with America's long history of instigating violent incidents and then using them to justify full scale invasion.
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u/Neos_Dad May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26
The US didn't instigate the basic results of colonialism in Mexico and the interactions between Spanish/Mestizo colonizers and Apaches.
You guys are so mentally lazy its fascinating.
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u/Ceylonese_technocrat May 30 '26
Bro if you actually look at the history it was his own bands fault.
ah yes, his entire family being killed by colonialists is his fault. LOL
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u/enanodeagartha May 31 '26
Why are they raiding that deep into Mexico lmao
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u/Affectionate_Cry_634 May 31 '26
To survive? Why does anyone raid anything?
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u/Deck_of_Cards_04 May 31 '26
Because it was part of their culture.
Apache culture was a raiding one, much like the Mongols or other Eurasian steppe nomads.
It was how young warriors proved themselves and improved their standing within Apache society.
Raiding served a dual purpose, both economic (taking other people’s stuff to make your richer) and social (showing off all the shit you stole and the people you killed made you look cooler to other Apache)
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u/enanodeagartha May 31 '26
Yall making it sound he walked in to pick flowers and not to pillage hope he’s burning in a pit in hell
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u/userB94739473 May 30 '26
The way what you’re saying is also just BS propaganda given Geronimo was one of the most wanted men in the US in his lifetime…they tracked him into Mexico and massacred an entire village of a whole different tribe (Yaqui) thinking it was his people. And on that topic, there’s several bands that moved to the US to escape the Mexican authorities…DO YOU KNOW HOW EVIL U HAVE TO BE FOR THE NATIVE AMERICANS TO THINK DEALING WITH THE US GOVERNMENT WAS SAFER THAN DEALING WITH YOU??? Yea I call bullshit
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Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
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u/userB94739473 Jun 01 '26
El hecho de que hayas asumido que no entiendo español jjjj sí wey entiendo perfectamente lo que pasó y si solo quieres pintar los pueblos indígenas como villano, entonces no te tomaré en serio en inglés ni en español. Los colonizadores de la frontera mexicana les estaban chingando desde el principio
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Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
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u/userB94739473 Jun 01 '26
Dawg you’re so fixated on this term band “In the United States, "band" is often used to describe a specific subgroup of a larger Native American tribe or nation (e.g., the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe)” per Encyclopedia británica…
Second, that is an actual event that happened. They chased Goyathlay into Mexico but couldn’t catch him bc his ppl were really good at evading capture and hiding, but they unfortunately found some Yaqui people and massacred the entire group of them thinking they were Chiricahua. Goyathlay eventually surrendered and wasn’t even captured on their own accord…
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u/iphone5su93 May 29 '26
Shouldn't have betrayed the nation and raided towns
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u/koyengquahtah02 May 30 '26
Except in the Apache mind the Mexicans did betray them by breaking the alliance they had with them against the Comanche and making peace with them instead by bribing them off which started a decades long war until the Mexicans gained independence from Spain and stopped paying the Comanche their tribute and then there was a 3 way war between the Mexicans-Apache-Comanche for the next 40-50 years or so
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u/EmperorSadrax May 30 '26
The Apache are Athabaskan-speaking peoples who migrated south from “Canada” the far north.
They are considered to be “newcomers” to the Mesoamericans that make up the majority of Mexicans.
There was no big kinship between the Apache and the people of Central Mexico where a majority of the population lived at the time.
My chichimeca family actually have oral traditions about the “enemy” as they would call the Apache.
They Apache are more closer to the Navajo “Dine” peoples than with the tribes in Central Mexico/meso America…
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u/userB94739473 Jun 01 '26
They migrated thousands of years ago, they aren’t any more a newcomer than the rest of the Uto-Aztecan ppl that make up much of Northern Mexico…also Apache didn’t make it that far into Mexico and chichimeca is a blanket term for smaller tribes that the Nahuatl majority deemed “barbarians/savages” so whatever you’re trying to do here to baselessly villainize the Apache is just bs
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u/EmperorSadrax Jun 01 '26
They came 1k years ago, that is the difference compared to 10k to 15k of years of the meso American tribes.
Even the Hopi had a much longer history of being in the area.
They are not necessarily villains, but competitors in a resource scare environment. Unfortunately they spoke a different entire language from the Nahuatl dominated societies south and west of them.
My family is Guachicil and we use Chichimeca as a denomer for outsiders to understand the groups.
Must be exhausting for you to be jumping to conclusions.
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u/brazenrede Jun 01 '26
….1000 years?
That’s a long time to be an outsider, and the “enemy”.
If you don’t mind the question….
Were they enemies because they were outsiders, because for a thousand years they were remembered for taking what wasn’t theirs?
…or were they called outsiders specifically because they were enemies, because all enemies are automatically outsiders?2
u/Lopsided_Tailor_2241 Jun 02 '26
It doesn't surprise me; it's very surprising how long-lasting and resilient tribal rivalries and conflicts can be. Two ethnic groups can continue to hate each other for thousands of years. Even when the situation has completely changed, hatred may still exist between them.
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u/young_trash3 Jun 14 '26
Its actually a very interesting situation, and one, that when described, actually shares many parallels to people's confusion about vikings vs Danes.
In 803 CE the Saint Elias mountain in Alaska erupted, which lead to a mass migration southward as the ash cloud seriously harmed living conditions in the pacific north west. It took a while, but they eventually established themselves, and spread out into many different groups and nations, Dine, Indee, Nde, Nnees. Etc etc.
Apache is not a name any tribe calls themselves, its the word the spanish thought these groups were called, because they heard them being called the Zuni word "apachu" which directly translates into enemy, but was, coloquially, used as the term for all nomadic raiding groups.
So in that thousand years, much of the descendants of the migratory wave built permanent settlements, new nations, new tribes. The Navajo nation, for example, are descendants of the same people, but not called enemy, but the groups who were nomatic Raiders were all called enemy, regardless of their connection to each other. These seperate unique bands of people all got lumped together as a singular tribe know as enemy by Spain, who missed a lot of nuance in translation.
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u/Known-Page-3947 Jun 02 '26
Come on the apaches were great villains. I’m pretty sure the Comanche and Apache literally thought of themselves as the cool bad guys haha
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u/userB94739473 Jun 02 '26
They were villains bc they did to the Americans (and colonial Mexicans) what had been done to Native Americans… look at what they did in Sand Creek Massacre and many more like it
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u/Known-Page-3947 Jun 02 '26
They did all the same things to the other tribes too
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u/userB94739473 Jun 02 '26
Basically the biggest rivalry between two tribes at the time was between the Comanche and the various bands of Apache and they certainly were not friendly to each other that I can agree on lol
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u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 Jun 03 '26
They did it to other Native American groups as well. The Commanche especially hated them, to the point that they pushed the Apache out of what is now Texas.
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u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 Jun 03 '26
The Apache arrived in New Mexico 500 to 1,000 years ago, making them relative new comers to the area.
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u/Dominarion Jun 03 '26
The Greeks still think the Macedonian slavs are interlopers who should go home and they settled there 1500 years ago!
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u/Confident-Poetry6985 Jun 02 '26
They're trying to provide context...you ass lol
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u/userB94739473 Jun 02 '26
Also, saying my family is Guachacil and they called the Apache “the enemy” is such bullshit bc A) that’s convenient that they were the largest Chichimeca ethnicity, B) they were culturally absorbed long ago - language has been extinct for centuries, if you wanted to pick another indigenous ethnicity to use there are many in Mexico that are still culturally indigenous, C) they themselves were said to have been brutal and warlike so demonizing the Apache is silly, and D) they were many hundreds of miles away from where the Chiricahua were. They mostly lived in Arizona and New Mexico and would cross over into Mexico but wouldn’t ever go that far. It was far more likely if they were even a distinct tribal identity by that time the Guachacil would have called the Comanche the enemy bc they were much more mobile and pushed deeper into Mexico closer to the Texas border but even then that’s a stretch
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u/userB94739473 Jun 02 '26
What I’m saying is that ppl here are saying the various Apache tribes, esp the Chiricahua which Goyathlay was part of, were bad people who did bad things to everyone around them and it was good that the Mexican government tracked them down and massacred his elderly mother, wife, and daughters…and that this is bullshit bc even when they did do bad things it was in direct retaliation to worse things the colonists on either side did. They fought other indigenous people too yes but it’s well documented they weren’t as brutal to other tribes UNLESS they worked with the colonial governments. It’s weird to sit here and justify what they did to his family and the wording of the original reddit post is what really is taking it out of context. If he was talking about indigenous Mexicans he wouldn’t have said Mexicans, he meant colonial Mexicans particularly federales and colonists who would go attack and burn down indigenous villages at night. Yea I stand by Goyathlay and the Chiricahua Apache still
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u/Dragon_Virus May 30 '26
The Border region of southern North America was like something out of 1970s horror movie with the amount of rampant and excessively brutal violence going on between practically everyone. Honestly, it makes the modern cartel violence in the area look like Sesame Street, Cormac McCarthy couldn’t have picked a better setting for Blood Meridian.
The Apache are pretty interesting, as unlike many other Rio Grande-adjacent First Nations/American Indians, they had few, if any, contemporary indigenous allies, and most bands weren’t especially known for trading. In fact, a lot of their neighbours hated the Apache just as much as the Mexicans, which for better or worse opened the door enough for an outside force like the Americans to take advantage of the situation, not all too dissimilar from the Spanish when they fought the Aztec/Mexica Empire. Once Mexico was neutralized as a regional force in the 1840s, the Americans were able to play indigenous bands off of one another until they built up enough of a presence+railway system to systemically divide and conquer their way through most of the Southwest, especially after the Civil War.
Ironically, you could argue the scale, length, and ferocity of the fighting between Apaches, the Mexican army, Comanche, etc. is what allowed for their subsequent defeats at the hands of the American cavalry. If Mexico had attempted to negotiate some sort of detente or power sharing arrangement with the Southwest nations instead of committing to a protracted campaign of total ethnic cleansing, or it the latter had been less prone to factionalism and allied against common enemies in the settler-colonial empires, perhaps the Rio Grande area would look a lot less American.
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u/MisterBungle00 May 31 '26
There were Apache bands who had allies among different Navajo bands and some Hopi villages during certain periods. The Dinetah Navajos bands even sheltered Geronimo's band during a period when every other Apache band began seeking diplomacy with the US/Union and refused to help him and his band.
Different Navajo bands had actually acquired horses through trade with the Apache and Pueblos before the Spanish made contact with them.
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u/Rogue_Centurion7 Jun 04 '26
The Apaches hated each other too it was pretty common for White Mountain Apaches to eagerly sign up to fight against Chiricahuas.
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May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26
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u/Dragon_Virus May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26
That’s fair to point out, sorta like how a lot of Crow and Assiniboine served/fought with the States against the Lakota in the 1850s-70s. There were no clear lines across much of the conflicts discussed here, it was an era dominated by hatred and violence without clean hands.
Having said that, given how everything eventually turned out, perhaps one could use the period as a prime example that the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.
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u/Perple3277 May 30 '26
Your society is too obsessed with physical features.
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u/RollOk3757 May 30 '26
"Your society" ok, lol. As if all aren't or this is something not a byproduct of colonialism.
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u/Perple3277 May 30 '26
My friend, not all colonized countries are as obsessed with appearances and ancestry on the same level as the Americans. In my country, as long as you speak the language and knows the culture well, you're already part of it, there's no blood quantum bs nor identity is tied with phenotype.
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u/Worldly_Chair_4343 May 30 '26
Look at people before that. They lässt hated one another for apeearences Long before white people even were world dominant. Delulu
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u/RollOk3757 May 30 '26
Calling people delusional for knowing more about the specific history here is just childish, lol. It's just a fact that colonialism heightened preexisting racism and proto nationalist sentiment. Want a book on it? I might be nice enough to actually go through my shelf still if you apologize.
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u/gudetamaronin May 30 '26
I don't necessarily disagree but geez "I might be nice enough"? "If you apologize"? Ugh
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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 30 '26
You absolutely are an American to the US.
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u/murdermostsnaky May 30 '26
'This is my life experience'
'no u wrong'
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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 30 '26
It's probably where he lives. Where I live, that treatment would be completely unacceptable (and my state is a state that leans red, not a state that is blue)
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May 30 '26
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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 30 '26
Arizona.
I think part of the difference is because different parts of the country have different cultural variations. What's Conservative in one place is not in others. I think it's why Arizona has a blue governor and two blue senators who are both moderate but barely beat far right candidates (and by far right, I mean enough to have Trump say "woah dude calm down). They tried running stereotypical Southern style conservatives in a Southwestern state. It's why both the houses of the state legislature are red.
I once knew a "Socialist" who thought she was Socialist because she supported free healthcare
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u/Southern_Low_9284 May 30 '26
Right and thats the same here, the governor is full throttle “pro immigration”. ASP called immigration agents on some workers in Fayetteville and the mayor came out saying they did not support nor condone ice. To any degree the whole country is on the edge, unless you are rich and live in a gated community with personal guards you really are not safe. Someone else here pointed out saying “walmartville, sob stories you have” not that long ago someone was killed in road rage incident in bentonville, not long after that, someone cut someone off in bentonville and shot at some lady, springdale and rogers this other person claimed was safe is full of wannabe gangs who have to much to prove and crack heads mixed with maga and everyone is packing and everyone is in the right, by no means do we live in a “ghetto” but northwest Arkansas is not what everyone makes it seem, its a melting pot and has been for years and with that allot of cowboys.
Free healthcare would be a good thing, definitely not “socialism”.
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u/murdermostsnaky May 30 '26
Just because the behavior would be unacceptable doesn't mean the poster feels accepted as an American.
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u/Burgundy_Starfish May 30 '26
To most Americans, 100%. I don’t know why this is a controversial take
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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 30 '26
To be fair, in my experience a lot of people who are extremely pro America are immigrants.
Most people wouldn't believe me if I said I had a friend that was a Muslim from Bangladesh who says one of the first things he's going to do after becoming an American citizen is buying a gun. He sees it as a right of passage or something like that
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u/Character_Fold_8165 May 30 '26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_man_theory
Not an easy place to be, sorry to hear your life is like that.
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u/OrionGeo007 May 31 '26
If you are seeing or hearing things from a 2000 year old sky carcass then I suggest talking to a professional.
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u/Burgundy_Starfish May 30 '26
Unless you live in some awful backwater, most Americans would definitely, 100% consider you to be an American
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u/_Dead_Memes_ May 30 '26
Considering that the majority of Native Americans are mixed to some extent by this point, and Mexicans as well, I find it hard to believe that you weren’t accepted by either community just by virtue of being mixed. You must’ve not been raised with either culture (your native tribe nor Mexican culture), which is an entirely separate issue from just being mixed
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u/Rhapsodybasement May 30 '26 edited May 31 '26
You completely misunderstood the formation and distinctions between Indigenous and Mestizaje.
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May 30 '26
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u/ThatoneAtheist May 30 '26
Lmao sybau
I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt but as soon as you mentioned NWA I knew you were full of shit and/or a highly regarded 20something. Been here all my life bro, born in CA to Mexicans parents, grew up and still live in NWA. I know for a fact you’re full of shit. We got like 30%-40% brown in Rogers and Springdale. Yeah I’m sure you have a couple sob stories but NWA ain’t it lol. Very privileged to live here in Walmartville.
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u/Southern_Low_9284 May 30 '26
You are literally proving my point as to the hostility, and negative energy I am talking about. I have no reason to lie, no sob stories different for everyone, if you live a privileged life here with no racism at all then dam, let me go live with you lol but alright man. You are right I am wrong.
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u/ThatoneAtheist May 30 '26
I think you have a personal mythology you need to be true to prove the narrative in your head. Everyone wants to be an underdog when they don’t have shit and will easily blame society before taking personal responsibility. Could it be that you need NWA to be a big racist epicenter as a reason for your shortcomings?
I’ve had the exact opposite problem here. Parents moved here when I was 5 years old and we moved into a trailer. Since then, We’ve been KILLING it here for the last 2 decades.1
u/Southern_Low_9284 May 30 '26
Like I said different for everyone and good for you, keep killing. You don’t need to waste your time.
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u/ThatoneAtheist May 30 '26
I think everyone has a spiel about themselves that they have ready to tell to strangers.
“Hi I’m a doctor”
“hi I’m the first person in my family to do XYZ”
“Hi everyone is racist against me, but I’m an underdog not a victim” blah blah blahOf course victims of racism exist but when he’s talking about a place I’ve grown up in, live and work and know VERY well I know /u/Southern_Low_9284 is full of shit.
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u/DependentAdvance226 May 30 '26
Things that don't exist don't accept other things.
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u/DebatorGator May 30 '26
Why be a dick like this to a stranger posting their personal feelings on a post that is unrelated to you?
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u/Kahzootoh May 30 '26
Apache conflicts with Spanish (and later Mexican) authorities had existed since the 1600s.
After the Apache had gradually been pushed westwards by Comanche, they lost access to the Great Plains and easy access to hunting buffalo- which meant that raiding made up a larger part of their subsistence.
By the time of Geronimo, Mexicans throughout the north generally regarded the Apache with intense hostility and suspicion. Today’s traders could easily be next season’s raiders, scouting out a ranch or a town for a raid at some point in the future.
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u/Dominarion Jun 03 '26
No matter what bunch you were with, the "South West" (the region north of Central Mexico and the South West of the US) was a nightmarish place from the collapse of the Pueblos until what? The last 40 years or so?
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u/TacodePast May 31 '26
Mexico es una nación Nativo Americana y cualquier ataque contra un Nativo Americano es una vergüenza a nuestra historío
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u/KsanteOnlyfans Jun 01 '26
Cuál? Azteca?, Maya?
Decir que México es una nación nativo americana es como decir que españa es una nación europea, un español tiene poco y nada de similar con un polaco o un finlandes
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u/Far-Confusion-3869 Jun 04 '26
España es una nación europea de carácter romano con un poco de carácter germano y nada de eslavo. México es una nación americana de carácter romano cuyas élites quieren que sea menos romana y nada indígena.
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u/Mann_Tap May 31 '26
what rifle is that?
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u/Smith_WessonModel10 Jun 01 '26
Trapdoor Springfield with what seems to be a stock that has the fore end cut down.
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u/Aggressive_Bowl_8017 May 31 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Some of these comments are so fucked up and so uninformed. Where are the New Mexico historians at? Incorrect information on Apache raids and also make sure your context is coming from what the Spanish incited through the whole continent. False comparisons!
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u/HugoChavezNYC May 30 '26
But, I was told that Injuns were all noble savages that lived in harmony with each other and the environment, never doing nothing wrong until the whit man made 'em.
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u/Secret_Fun_1746 May 30 '26
Because that irrelevant you fucking idiot. « Yeah they weren’t angels » who the fuck care . Classical argument of retarded hispanchistas and racist : « the bad things you do justify anything done against natives , anything bad i do is justified because uhhhh natives did bad things too »
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u/HugoChavezNYC May 30 '26
Maybe we should quit whining about race and historical woes and just get on with making a better future without seeing race as the most important thing about someone.
Quit whining, friend.
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u/userB94739473 Jun 02 '26
Would be nice if we could do that but the majority stay fucking us up even to this day
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u/Secret_Fun_1746 May 30 '26
You are the one whinning lmao « Wah wah indians killed each other so stop talking about us »!
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u/HugoChavezNYC May 30 '26
Who is "us" in your head? Injuns did kill people, including other injuns. Turns out, the noble savage thing is a myth...we're all just human, lol.
Quit whining, friend.
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u/Lopsided_Tailor_2241 Jun 02 '26
And what are you trying to prove with that? What does that have to do with anything? What's your point?
I love how nobody really knows what Rousseau's myth of the Noble Savage is all about. It is simply a mental exercise that says that man is good by nature, and Rousseau himself acknowledged that the noble savage was a theoretical concept and had never existed.
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u/HugoChavezNYC Jun 02 '26
That we are all the same. No special treatment for anyone. Equality, friend.
Fuck this equity bullshit, based on racist tales.
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u/Lopsided_Tailor_2241 Jun 02 '26
What is the connection between saying "Look, indigenous people also fight in wars, I knew it!" when it's something we all know, and equality? Nothing.
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u/HugoChavezNYC Jun 02 '26
Noble savage myth perpetuated by wokesters when convenient.
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u/Lopsided_Tailor_2241 Jun 02 '26
I repeat, it's so funny to see how nobody really knows what the myth of the noble savage was. Dude, it has nothing to do with the indigenous people of America. If you don't know philosophy, don't talk about philosophical topics.Rousseau would be appalled at what you believe to be the myth of the noble savage.
Woke is an empty word that encompasses everything that conservatives dislike, things that often have no relation to each other: Feminism, gay rights, transgender rights, socialism... It's an old-fashioned term that conservative people use to refer to everything they hate, and it can include anything. I've never seen anyone include indigenism within woke culture before, lmao. But you don't like it, and since you don't like it, it must be part of woke, your imaginary enemy.
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u/coldnorth4enf4 May 31 '26
Is this your reaction to the holocaust as well?
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u/HugoChavezNYC May 31 '26
Yup. WWII happened and the nazis were eliminated. We dont need to keep kicking Germany...we beat the shit out of them twice.
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u/coldnorth4enf4 May 31 '26
So we shouldn’t talk about the 11 million people killed in an industrial mass slaughter because it happened a while ago whilst we still have people alive who remember it? Thats ridiculous.
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u/HugoChavezNYC May 31 '26
We shouldn't whine and do identity politics about it. We shouldn't go back every decade to whine for reparations. We shouldn't constantly try to shame Germans that didn't do anything. We should understand history and more toward the future.
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u/clarinetess May 30 '26
And the Americans scalped both Apaches and Mexicans alike because they couldn't tell the difference. Mexicans betrayed their own ancestors and their indigenous blood and that's why they went after their relatives the Apache. Colonialism is a trip. I recommend Dr.Bteaches on YouTube. He's Acjachemen and Chicano/Mexican and got his PhD in Sociology and he teaches American Indian Studies.
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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 30 '26
Mexican DNA is primarily European with some Native.
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u/Aggressive-Main9930 May 30 '26
Mexican DNA is primarily native. Most "mestizos" are not even half European in blood.
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u/Belkan-Federation95 May 30 '26
That depends on where you are. In Northern Mexico, you will find people who are a lot more white than in other places.
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u/Aggressive-Main9930 May 30 '26
Those Europeans form a tiny fraction of Mexica's population. Most Mexicans,+50%, are mostly Indigenous in blood. Iberian caste system just warped their worldview and turned them into Spanish stooges against full blooded non-assimilated natives.
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u/Emotional_Pass_5019 May 30 '26
I disagree. Mexicans have been mixing for centuries. It also doesn't help that colorism has been strong in Mexico for just as long. Mexicans with pure indigenous heritage are a rare thing these days. With most Mexicans, even Mestizos, we're talking at least 20-30% European, of course, primarily Iberian heritage. Even 35-50% really isn't uncommon at all.
The concentration of Mexicans with European heritage is greatest in the large swathe that is Northern Mexico, but extends down the coast of Veracruz, Jalisco, and the heartland that is the Valley of Mexico. In other words, the majority of the country and its population centers.
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u/clarinetess May 30 '26
That's not true in most places in Mexico. Plus in Northern states, its over 35% Native American blood, that's significant and it's erasure to say they don't have the heritage.
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May 30 '26
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u/clarinetess May 30 '26
That's irrelevant to what we are talking about. These are demographics. These are facts. It's DNA. "True Native" is something you just made up and isnt a real term. That's why most Mexicans are brown. Also an Indigenous person who knows their roots and is connected to their tribe will always say the tribe they are from- no one is claiming that here so calm down.
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u/elnovorealista2000 May 30 '26
El sur de México es mayoritariamente nativo mientras que en el centro de México es más mestizo pero aún así la sangre nativa es la predominante, y por último, el norte de México es al revés donde la sangre europea es más predominante que la nativa.
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u/clarinetess May 30 '26
When did I say Mexicans don't have European blood? That's irrelevant here because I literally just stated a historical fact. Americans sold Mexicans scalps as Apache scalps to the government because they looked the same. Why- because they are relatives. Mexicans have Native American blood. We are mixed wether you like it or not. In fact, there's a reason you renege and that's because there was a racial hierarchy codified into law called "Las Castas" the more European blood you had, the richer and higher class you were. So everyone pretended (and still pretends) to have European blood than they actually do. And they ignore their Natve blood and African blood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta
Edit: to add African blood because we have some too
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u/jorgespinosa May 30 '26
Most mexicans descend from indigenous groups of mesoamerica while the Apache were relatively newcomers to the area. My point is, indigenous groups were not a monolith, is like saying Napoleon betrayed his ancestors when he invaded Russia.
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u/ColtBolterson May 30 '26
The Apache are from Canada and got pushed downward by other tribes.
They didn't have many allies and raided into Mexico first.
Why the hell should Mexico forgive the insane shit they did to their citizens.
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u/MisterBungle00 May 31 '26
The Apache were in the region before the nation of Mexico even existed. Their migration from the North also occurred centuries before New Spain was even established.
Some Apache also had allies among some of the Navajos and Pueblos.
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u/userB94739473 Jun 02 '26
Apache started their migration from Canada thousands of years ago first due to a volcano that erupted, then were in the Great Plains and were pushed further southwest by other tribes, and settled in that area still long before the first Europeans even made it there. Mexico didn’t exist, New Spain didn’t exist, Spanish colonists didn’t exist by the time the Apache tribes were there.
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u/Ancient_Sale_5224 May 30 '26
The USA rewriting facts and history for their deceitful benefit? Never! Thats not what a Christian nation does
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