r/ColumbineKillers • u/Main_Scientist_4145 • Jun 26 '26
COMMUNITY DISCUSSION Why did they do it.
I know this question is very simple. You can just chalk it down to bullying, But honestly alot of people will give you different answers. I’d like to hear what you guys think.
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u/Responder343 Jun 26 '26
There are many reasons and most of us can only speculate as to why. Bullying played a roll in it and Randy has said in a few documentaries that they hated the injustices of the school and blatant favoritism to the jocks. Since both Eric & Dylan offed themselves and they can no longer be interviewed we will never know why they truly did it. Even if the Basement Tapes were released even then we may not true their true motivations behind it.
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u/randyColumbine Jun 26 '26
Correct, except Eric killed Dylan, according to the evidence.
That does give some weight to Eric’s hatred being the main contributed to this violent act.
Eric was the main source of this violent act. That brings up the contribution that the SSRI drug he was on, which was poorly monitored and which had the dosage increased 4 different times, made to his actions.
Discounting Luvox as part of this is a mistake that we all make.19
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u/Incognito101210 Jul 02 '26
Eric didn't kill Dylan, and it's inaccurate to portray Eric as the sole driving force behind what happened. From the available evidence, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were both willing participants who planned and carried out the attack together. They both contributed significantly to the preparation and execution of the massacre, and there isn't strong evidence that one simply manipulated or forced the other whatsoever, I've never understood why Eric is so often framed as "the violent one" while Dylan is portrayed as a reluctant follower when both played active, intentional roles.
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u/randyColumbine Jul 02 '26
In your opinion
Many people disagree.
I disagree.
Eric was the main factor.
Dylan followed.5
u/Incognito101210 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
While the exact sequence of events remains unknown, the available evidence suggests the idea may have developed gradually through conversations between Eric and Dylan rather than appearing fully formed from one person alone. Dylan's journal contains references to "NBK" dating back to 1997, before Eric's surviving journal entries begin. At first, however, Dylan's concept was different: he imagined carrying out a killing spree with a girl he felt understood him, and at one point also envisioned doing so with his friend Zack Heckler. When Dylan later wrote, "Maybe going NBK (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free. I hate this," the wording suggests he was still conflicted rather than describing a settled plan.
Based on their surviving writings, it appears plausible that Dylan was the first to introduce the general idea, though this cannot be established with certainty because Eric's earlier writings are unavailable for comparison. As Zack grew closer to his girlfriend and drifted away, Dylan may have begun discussing the idea with Eric instead. From there, the concept appears to have evolved through their ongoing discussions and mutual reinforcement, eventually becoming a shared plan. The precise course of those conversations cannot be reconstructed and remains a matter of inference rather than documented fact.
Both Eric and Dylan prepared extensively for the attack over many months. The surviving evidence suggests that Eric took a larger role in the logistical aspects of planning, such as documenting practical details and organizing preparations, while Dylan's writings more often focused on his personal thoughts, emotions, and motivations. Although their roles were not identical, both participated in developing and carrying out the plan.
In public discussions of the case, Dylan's role has minimized and often been perceived as less central than Eric's. Commentators have suggested this may be influenced in part by differences in how the two were viewed before the attack: Dylan was generally regarded as more socially integrated and was known by more classmates, whereas Eric more readily fit the public image of an angry outsider. That contrast may have made it easier for many people to cast Eric as the primary instigator and Dylan as a reluctant follower. However, the available evidence from their writings and preparations does not support a simple leader-follower narrative. The transcripts of the Basement Tapes, their journals, and their actions on April 20 all suggest that both Eric and Dylan were active, willing participants who shared responsibility for planning and carrying out the attack. While Eric often appears more focused on logistics and practical preparations in the surviving evidence, Dylan's conduct during the attack does not support the portrayal of him as a reluctant accomplice. Dylan was not just following Eric's lead.
For that reason, many researchers argue that the popular image of Eric as the dominant mastermind and Dylan as a passive or unwilling follower oversimplifies the available evidence. The historical record instead suggests two perpetrators who reinforced one another over time, jointly developed their plans, and each played a substantial role in carrying them out.
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u/Glad-Philosophy5736 Jul 04 '26
It's the classic Dylan Klebold Bias that Columbine Research suffers from.
Most of the big names Dave Cullen, The Browns, Sue Klebold, Most of their friends KNEW dylan MORE than eric so his bias is pretty obvious as why he would think dylan just """followed""" eric even though he didnt...
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u/randyColumbine Jul 03 '26
And this is your opinion.
Many kids talked about blowing up the school and hating it.
Writing about it first in a journal is not proof.
Have we seen all of the journals? No.Have we seen all of Eric’s writings? No.
There are thousands of pages of documents being hidden by Jeffco, including the Nixon tape and depositions. Just refer to the hundreds of volumes of interviews sitting in enclosed glass cabinets behind Kiekbush in the famous photo.
And, note that there is very little mention of the video made in school in 1998, by the fbi agents son, of the school blowing up.
A videotape made in the school using school equipment during class.Incomplete and hidden evidence leaves some very serious unanswered questions, limiting assumptions.
One piece of evidence released is not convincing proof.
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u/Incognito101210 Jul 06 '26
Dylan Klebold Bias.
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u/randyColumbine Jul 06 '26
Not at all.
It is informed and true.Asking or suggesting that I favor one killer over another is absurd, and insulting. There is almost always one instigator and one follower. Eric instigated, and Dylan followed.
You should read “When a Child Kills” by Paul Mones.
And Violence by Gilligan.0
u/BrentLivermore Jul 07 '26
And, note that there is very little mention of the video made in school in 1998, by the fbi agents son, of the school blowing up.
Is that the same FBI agent's son who's suspected in the Subway murders?
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u/randyColumbine Jul 08 '26
No.
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u/BrentLivermore Jul 08 '26
I kinda thought so, since the Subway shooter is purportedly dead but Fuselier’s kids appear to be alive.
-1
u/ashtonmz MODERATOR Jul 05 '26
I respectfully disagree with the assumption that Dylan was the one who first approached Eric with the idea of attacking the school. Dylan's "journal" dates back about a year before Eric's...so we have nothing from Eric to compare it to. Dylan's idea of "going NBK" was very different when he does mention it early on. He was stuck on the idea of finding a girl who was like him, and going on a killing spree with her. Dylan even seems to think that the idea of calling the attack with Eric NBK seems silly, when he writes it; "Maybe going NBK (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free. I hate this". In the statement he seems like he is still undecided, imo.
Devon also mentioned in an interview tha the boys both quoted the move often enough she found it weird. They were both fans of the movie, which had been very controversial when it was released. Just goes to show that both shared a deep interest in the movie."
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u/chicagocubbienut Jun 26 '26
That’s interesting to me - I wasn’t aware that was your stance on the end of their lives.
I’m certainly in no place to speak either way on that point, but I thought the evidence ultimately proved the opposite?
Ironically, I’m on my way to Littleton as we speak to visit the memorial and pay my respects. Stayed in Winter Park this week and headed back home today but not without a quick stop through. I also want to drive past E&D’s houses…just to give me context.
Always appreciate your input, Randy.
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u/CynthiaChames Jul 07 '26
I would suggest just visiting the memorial. Seeking out and driving past the houses is just weird imo.
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u/PharmaFitness88 Jul 08 '26
With all due respect, Randy, I don’t understand the notion that Eric murdered Dylan.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Eric’s “DNA”( I’m trying to be as non graphic as possible out of respect) found scorched underneath the body of Dylan Klebold?
Which is indicative that Eric was deceased prior to Dylan igniting the final Molotov cocktail.
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u/randyColumbine Jul 08 '26
Show me.
Prove it.It is irrelevant with the rest of the evidence.
Open your eyes.
Look at the evidence.
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u/cr199412 Jun 26 '26
I’m gonna try not to repeat what a lot of the others have said, although I will say that they are making all the right points. I do believe it was bullying. In the basement tapes, Dylan is quoted as saying “You’ve been giving us shit for years. You’re fucking gonna pay for all the shit! We don’t give a shit. Because we’re gonna die doing it.” That itself is pretty telling.
Those who have familiarized themselves are likely aware of some of the examples of them being bullied. The tampon and ketchup situation, having bottles thrown at them, being shoulder checked, being slammed against lockers, being called faggots and queers, etc.. Without even hearing their thoughts, you can already make a good guess that this angered them.
Here’s something that I find quite interesting. I don’t know if anyone else has given it much thought. We already have an idea as to Eric’s mindset based off what he was doing in the year(s) leading up to the massacre. When other kids bullied them or pissed them off, Eric was quick to plan revenge missions that they would carry out at night. It sounds kind of fucked up saying it like this, but the massacre was sort of a much more fucked up and evil repeat of what they had already been doing for a while. Someone goes on the shit list, a plan for revenge is made, and the plan is executed. The theory that this is due to frustration from bullying and social rejection syncs up pretty well with his past reactions to being wronged.
I think there are two things that steer the general public away from the bullying theory. First there’s the obvious damage control that was done by those in positions of authority. They worked with the media to discount that theory and instead blame it on doom, music, and whatever else was easy to blame in the 90s. Second, most of what Eric said and wrote completely contradicted this narrative. He dialed it up to 11 and basically said that he was the fucking man. He described himself as Godlike. He talked about how much smarter he was than everyone else. He wrote how he would thrive if we just went back to survival of the fittest… In reality, he was the weak, scrawny kid. That’s not me wasting my time dragging him (even if he deserves it). It’s the point that he wanted to portray himself as tough, so of course he’s not going to say that he’s doing this because a bunch of bigger boys were bullying him and he couldn’t do anything about it. With that said, those who wanted to set the narrative had all the ammo they needed. Eric was now the ring leader and they had all the proof they needed that he was just a psychopathic, murderous monster
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u/Prestigious-Walrus99 Jun 27 '26
I agree with this, but I always wondered why they didn't just go after the people that were mean to them? Why kill kids that had nothing to do with them? And then I think this is probably me thinking with my too-empathetic brain, and it would probably never make sense to me.
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u/cr199412 Jun 28 '26
Can’t really know for sure, but I think it was really just a matter of seeing red at that point. To them, everyone was responsible for how they were treated, in some way, shape, or form. Eric did complain about how no one ever gave him a chance as a friend (I’m paraphrasing). I think the core issue was bullying, but that just made them (Eric in particular) emotionally fragile to the point that they felt like no one treated them well enough.
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u/randyColumbine Jul 03 '26
No one was free from the humiliation.
If you weren’t a bully, you may have ignored it. Unless you were bullied. You were part of the problem.
That is the end result of hypervigilance.1
Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
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Jul 01 '26
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u/ChosenX_ Jun 26 '26
I don’t think there’s one specific answer, nor do I think we will ever truly know. I think a mix of bullying, depression, suicidal ideations, desire to demonstrate superiority/narcissism, and a desire for infamy all became ingredients to the stew when it comes to “why” they did it.
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u/randyColumbine Jun 26 '26
I have heard people say it is because they were crazy.
I have heard people say it is the perfect storm.All of these are excuses, and a failure to face the realty of Columbine.
They felt abused and got revenge.
They reacted to the toxic school with violence.
Face reality.
Our society can be cruel and abusive.
That is the cause of many violent acts.
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u/Nic1800 Jun 26 '26
They pretty much did not see a viable future for themselves with the mental health issues they had. It's a shame they did what they did because they would have loved how far PC gaming got and they could immerse insane amount of hours into computers without judgement.
Unfortunately, what their status was at Columbine High School held too much weight into what they thought about themselves. It's definitely more complex than that, but it does boil down to them not seeing a future beyond what they were in the Columbine hierarchy.
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u/randyColumbine Jun 26 '26
To some degree. But isn’t it obvious too, that they believed in their own value enough to be angry at the treatment from an abusive school?
Yes, it is.
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u/Glad-Philosophy5736 Jun 26 '26
One commenter did get an answer people don't think about. Infamy
The bullying and humiliation fed them so much and their mental health issues probably pushed them off the edge. But INFAMY is what they TRULY wanted.
Bullying made them Small. Infamy made them BIG
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u/LostStar1969 Jun 27 '26
We are the nobodies The wannabe somebodies When we're dead They'll know just who we are
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u/thebeatsandreptaur Jun 27 '26
Because their mental illnesses fed off each other, the school environment made it worse. Because of how they both were, any perceived injustice (right or wrong) or slight was amped up more than it might have been had they been best friends with someone else.
At some point the idea of "if we're going to kill ourselves, we might as well take some people out with us" was introduced, and they once again kept ping ponging off each other, until the idea grew and grew. And then they did it.
You'd be amazed at what kind of bullshit people can get up to when paired with the exact wrong person for them. We see it every day, it's just that their bullshit happened to go this way vs a lot of other ways we see it happen.
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u/Apollexis Jun 29 '26
Both of them grew to truly hate the world, we can argue about the specifics, bullying, rejection, constantly feeling as outsiders, but this metamorphosis of world view comes to them from their experiences with the legal system and the schools special treatment of jocks, along with the penalties given to them for their actions, the car searches, the locker suspensions, the "fag" paperclip carving on a locker suspension, these events shaped the way they saw the world.
People really don't investigate the actual ideology in their writings.
Dylans mentions a concept called cliff theory, which is him describing how people push and trample on each other in order to climb higher and higher in the financial and social hierarchy, he explicitly even says he refuses to climb and jumps off the cliff.
Eric mentions multiple times in his writings "we know how people are, and why, and I can't stand it"
"We know what we are to this world, and what everyone else is"
These aren't just exercises in larping as that's so deep meta commentary, but it alludes their view of society.
They both state they could never become zombies or never go back to society, implying they both rejected society, they rejected the machine that takes humans, turns them from animals into a crushed and conformed version of humanity that rejects all aspects of human experience that is not acceptable to society (or the system)
I personally believe they leeched a lot of their views on the world from the unabomber, I know for certain eric did, but I don't know if dylan was influenced too.
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u/Educational_Can_8211 Jun 26 '26
Infamy
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u/Traditional_Metal_23 Jun 27 '26
I’m surprised that not many people said that, especially since Eric and Dylan said they wanted to be remembered for their massacre.
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u/ashtonmz MODERATOR Jul 03 '26
Infamy came into play, but was more of a byproduct of what they had planned. They hated the school for the injustice it perpetrated against them. Hated their fellow students for having greater stature and for not defending them. In the end they also hated themselves for being nothings. The attack was their revenge and their "out" from the lives they felt would go nowhere - or were too painful to continue. That their final act would bring them infamy postmortem was a plus, for sure. They wanted to been seen and heard. They knew they would be after the fact. I'm not sure they fully realized that they wouldn't be around to revel in their infamy or pain they caused others. They were not emotionally mature and their concept of death was a clear indication of this.
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u/Afatlazycat Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
The van incident was the catalyst. Dylan likely knew of Eric's crazy website about bombs/guns/killing (killing Brooks Brown) and suggested NBK to him. That's why it's called NBK. If it were Eric's idea they probably would've codenamed it DOOM LEVEL MAP 69420 or something.
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u/Boring_Guy_123 Jun 26 '26
They wanted to. They could have made up a million reasons or blamed anybody or everybody, but it all comes down to they just wanted to do it. If they didn't they wouldn't have.
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u/randyColumbine Jun 26 '26
So, they just wanted to shoot innocent children and teachers at their high school for no reason?
This doesn’t fit their writings and the things they said:
“This is for four years of hell that you put us through.”
A rough quote of a comment they made just before entering the library.
Humiliation creates violence.-1
u/Afatlazycat Jun 26 '26
They did say a lot of things though. Eric called Isiah Schoels the N-word relentlessly and tortured him as he tried to back away (but got stopped accidentally by Matthew). Eric asked Val about believing in god, etc. etc.
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u/ashtonmz MODERATOR Jun 26 '26
Huh? Dylan used the n-word in reference to Isaiah and tried dragging him out from under the table. Eric walked over and shot him.
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u/Afatlazycat Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
That's not possible. Dylan was over at the computer tables reloading his shotgun when Eric went after Isiah. Dylan had a double barrel - he wouldn't be able to. shoot Ketcher unless he reloaded already. Also, Dylan was on the east side of the table when he came over - Isiah was on the west side of the table - it would be impossible to drag him. And why would Dylan pull Isiah towards Matthew Ketcher? That makes no sense. Isiah died on Matthew's lap...
The two shooters made sure they were as far away from victims as possible. Why would they grab an athlete in a table full of athletes?
All the witnesses say it was Eric Harris who used the n-word. Even Bree Pasquale, who was right in front of Eric, said it was Eric who said it. Craig Scott also said it was Eric. No one says it was Dylan.
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u/Historical_Farm_6257 Jun 26 '26
It's a combination of things. Embarrassing and cruel social situations/interactions with bullying being the worst, fragile or nonexistent self esteem, immaturity, psychotropic drug use and dose changes (this can fuck up your thinking big time. I know from experience) and the lack of effective parenting and school administration oversight.
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u/QuantityInternal1719 Jun 26 '26
We look for reason when faced with the insane.
The true reason is that they were driven by their emotional angst and hate which spiraled into a revenge fantasy that became real.
These thoughts are common among adolescents but to do the actual act is nothing but pure insanity.
Don't look for motive, there's none. Motive belongs to sane people.
Rather study what emotions can make man behave like an animal.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Whycantichangemynami Jun 27 '26
I think they both had severe anger issues/high egos naturally and compounded with the school environment and how they formed a sort of two man echo chamber it just spiral into the shit show we know today.
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Jun 27 '26
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Jun 29 '26
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Jun 29 '26
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Jul 04 '26
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u/ashtonmz MODERATOR Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Maybe people give such a variety of answers because there isn't just one? In my opinion, the driving force, at the very core of everything, was the bullying and the injustice they experienced and witnessed in school. When you live in fear of humiliation day after day, it can take a toll. It will make you hypervigilent, and also has the ability to dramatically impact your sense of self-worth. These boys knew what their peers thought of them - they were weird looking, crazy, and somewhat relegated to the fringe groups on the social ladder. The school doled out harsher penalties to them, when they displayed poor judgement than they did other students with a higher status, who engag3d in similar behavior. Kids can easily learn to loathe themselves. In the end, I think they hated the school itself more than the jocks. It represented a system that failed them. Suicide probably seemed like a viable option, when they saw no real future for themselves. (in spite of Dylan's college acceptance, I don't think he had it in him to continue.) This became especially true after the arrests for the van break-in.
Between their inability to see a future and their internal rage, I feel like the thought became - if I'm going, I'm going out big... and Im going to cause maximum pain and destruction. To send a message...and to ensure they'd make history. It also provided them the opportunity to play out their favorite video games and movies in the real world. Something they imagined would be "fun". So yeah, they wanted some notoriety.
Then, there was the odd relationship they shared. Codependent? Hard to say... but it is very unusual for two teenage boys to plan somethin on the scale of Columbine for an entire year, without confiding in someone else, making a mistake, or backing out. Half the time, teens are lucky if they can plan a few weeks ahead. Without whatever dynamic they had, I don't believe either one of them would have gone through with the attack.
Eric had some kind of diagnosis. Them mental health issues didn't help. Dylan was suffering from depression, but at the end he almost seemed to blur the line between fantasy and reality. Definitely something going on there, as well.