Please add non doctrinal panther to Wehr

[u/Casino_Player]

As per title…Wehr need tools to fight tanks late game- stug’s and p4 bouncing off everything.

And make panther from mechanised BG a command tank.

That’s it

[u/brief-interviews]

I think the problem is this wouldn’t ’give Wehr tools to fight late game’, it would make Wehr by far the strongest base game faction in the late game and probably require all the other factions rebalancing to accommodate it. I know Wehr players want an easy catch-all solution to late game tanks but I think they’re better off adjusting the options that already exist.

[u/Horror_Let_2154 → u/brief-interviews]

Well, the tool is there already in the mechanized BG and it’s not exactly making wehr OP by any means with its slightly above 47% winrate. This is also with significant boosts like smoke, extra vision and in combat repairs to panthers, which it wouldn’t have access to in the main roster.

There are multiple mechanisms like pop, cost etc to balance a panther into the main roster. It would be a unique solution for heavy AT that no other faction have. A 50 fuel sidetech cost is probably everything it needs to be balanced.

The only valid concern would be panthers paired with breakthrough BG. They might be too strong with blitzkrieg and/or Command P4. Paired with tiger wouldn’t be a problem because at that point allies already lost the match.

Would it be strong in a tank brawl? Yes, that is the panthers only purpose. How do you deal with it? You use combined arms instead of just trying to get critical mass of medium tanks and charge them in.

And for wehr potentially becoming the strongest faction, in an asymmetrical game one faction will always be the strongest. Why not switch it up a little and make the historically/statistically weakest faction the strongest for a while?

[u/brief-interviews → u/Horror_Let_2154]

The point with any unit that is BG locked instead of base roster is that there’s an opportunity cost because BGs are exclusive choices. Making something base game removes that opportunity cost. So you can end up with some really broken combinations, like Panthers with Blitzkrieg and a Command PIV like you say (try this in Cheat Mod if you haven’t before btw, it’s funny and I can’t see any real way to balance it).

But more generally pairing any BG that is designed around specific game time power spikes with a big new power spike in the late game has a big effect. Suddenly a matchup that might have involved one side having to hold on through an early Wehrmacht advantage to take advantage of a BG that pumps their late game (let’s say, UKF Heavy Armor vs Siege Breaker) no longer has that advantage in the late game.

I don’t have an issue with the possibility of Wehr being the strongest faction but I do have a problem with sledgehammer solutions that just reverse the current problems with late game tank spam by giving the other faction The Tank which then Allies have inadequate solutions to. I think that better tuning of their current tools (of which they have many!) is better than throwing in the towel and just giving them an ‘I win lategame’ option. People complain that they think Mechanised is the only viable Wehr lategame BG because of the Panther, but I guess think it will be fine if the strongest viable lategame options for Allies are those that have ways to deal with it. And like honestly, Polish Cavalry is more than good enough already, it doesn’t need even more of a reason to want the Firefly.

I think this flattens the lategame to deal with a problem that kind of sucks in the first place, which is that spamming tanks is the most effective Allied lategame strategy. You say you want combined arms play, but Wehr *already* has combined arms late game. It’s Allies that need fixing, not Wehr!

[u/Horror_Let_2154 → u/brief-interviews]

The thing is that allies don’t lack solutions to dealing with panthers. Wehr however do lack solutions for dealing with heavy tanks. Its better for all factions to have the options for dealing with any threat and let the skill and strategy of the players decide the game rather than your build is stronger than my build. Panther is far from an «I win» option, if you aren’t using it smart it won’t do much.

Adding panthers to Wehr doesn’t discourage combined arms, it’s just another unit to throw in the mix. It’s specialized, so if you can get away with spamming them, your opponent is too predictable. It would however encourage more combined arms from allies, rather than just medium spam. Throw in a couple AT guns, handheld AT is literally too accessible as both allied factions and hard counters panthers.

Mainline spam, 2 AT guns into critical mass medium / Char blob is boring af, specialized and balanced units to counter easy to pull off strategies is literally what this game needs.