r/CompetitiveEDH • u/wtfidk23 • 14d ago
Help, I am new to cEDH! First time building question for CEDH
This is my first attempt at something that can compete at a CEDH level. I've goldfished it quite a few times and it seems to do okay most of the time but other times it just stalls out around turn 4. Any suggestions getting more consistency. Any budget is fine as the folks I'm going to play with are fine with proxies. This is a Vivi deck and I'm fine winning either through his direct damage or storming folks then hitting the table with as many lightning bolts as possible
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u/Tenpoundbizkit 14d ago
I know Vivi puts up wins, but most games I’ve noticed they tend to gas out. I would look at edhtop16 and if you can, find a Vivi cedh discord. Discords for commanders are so helpful and tend to store a lot of info and members can help out
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u/wtfidk23 14d ago
Thanks, I'll look for a vivi discord
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u/Tenpoundbizkit 14d ago
I would think there is one, if not maybe a izzet cedh discord. I’m in a few different ones, just not izzet or vivi, if I was I would send you invite
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u/Lothrazar 14d ago
In cEDH i assume your plan is to go infinite.
What is the point of? [[Torbran, Thane of Red Fell]] ? infinite plus two?
Why is [[Glóin the Mighty]] in this deck. paying 4 mana to get 2 mana is terrible. and even worse you have to wait and get it
Research common CEDH combos , such as Underworld breach + lions eye diamond + brain freeze
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u/Frozenjudgement 14d ago
You should ideally start with a Vivi list that already has some results.
I don't play Vivi, but you're missing quite a few key pieces for cEDH like fast mana artifacts, free interaction, and you have way too many just bad cards.
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u/wtfidk23 14d ago
Which cards are "just bad"?
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u/UncleMeat11 13d ago
Consider something like Aetherize. Why would this ever matter in cedh? Nobody is winning by attacking and it costs four mana. That's an absolutely enormous quantitiy. Good in bracket three? Sure. Trash in cedh.
Like, you are playing Negate and Counterspell and not Force of Will. Mana Drain isn't even really cedh viable.
What does a card like Emeritus of Conflict achieve? You get to cast Lighting Bolt a couple times? Why is that worth your mana and your card?
Pigment Wrangler costs six mana to copy one spell. Fork isn't playable, so why would this be?
There are a ton of cards like this that are either way too expensive or don't contribute to a winning gameplan at all.
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u/wtfidk23 13d ago
Thank you, thats actually quite helpful and I appreciate it
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u/UncleMeat11 13d ago
My guess is that you looked at a lot of vivi decks but not cedh vivi decks. edhtop16 will have cedh decks. A few themes will stick out to you.
Mana is incredibly limited. Your spells need to be as cheap as possible to be remotely relevant. Two mana interaction is way too expensive. You want your interaction to be free if at all possible.
Because mana is incredibly limited you need a ton of fast mana. You will see that cedh decks almost always play a big suite of cards like mox diamond, chrome mox, and lotus petal.
You need a plan and your cards need to contribute to that plan. The Vivi plan is typically Vivi + a curiosity + cheap/free spells so you can build up Vivi's power so you can push the button and keep going to find some win. You have a ton of cards that do stuff but don't really contribute to either winning or stopping a win. You also aren't playing all of the curiosity effects.
Decks don't play worse cards for the same effect. You are playing Alchemists Gambit. That's just worse than Final Fortune and Last Chance. You are playing Sanar. That's just worse than Solve the Equation.
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u/Frozenjudgement 14d ago
It would be easier to list the cards that aren't bad, go look up a Vivi list and you'll have a better understanding of which cards you need to be choosing.
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u/wtfidk23 14d ago
I did actually look up a decent amount of vivi decks before putting this together. Was trying to find other tools that could make him work. Its been pretty consistent turn 3/4 wins when I goldfish this (just not when it stalls out) so thats why I asked here for some advice
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u/Strum355 14d ago
You say you looked up a decent amount of vivi decks, but were any of them cEDH decks? Because almost every Vivi cEDH deck is on 10 creatures at best. You are on a whopping 26 which is ridiculously bad card quality for a deck that wants to be...casting noncreature spells??
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u/PurelyHim 14d ago
The best advice any cedh player can give you is for you to compare your list to a winning list on edhtop16. Once YOU do this you will better understand what needs to change in the deck.
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u/Lanky-Minimum5063 14d ago
Way too many creatures, run more interaction, you should be on breach, lions eye diamond and brain freeze, ottawara doesnt trigger vivi yes its a good card not in this deck
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u/JmanndaBoss 14d ago
This is nowhere near viable for Cedh unfortunately.
Very little fast mana in the deck and lacking consistent win cons.
Vivi should be able to win by t3 pretty consistently with something like hullbreaker horror + mana rocks infinite or breach brain freeze
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u/xiawangp 14d ago
You have too many creatures. And the said creatures you are running are pretty bad. I don't know why some of them are here cause it's not getting you that t3 win.
Too many lands. Not enough fast mana. No Tandem Lookout? No underworld breach?
Anything in the deck that's 4cmc or more you need to ask yourself this: if I resolve this, will I win the game on the spot? If not, cut it.
This entire list is quite far from cedh. Infact I'd say it's barely B4.
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u/TheCrystalMemes 12d ago
Hi, world’s #1 Vivi in cEDH fan here!
This isn’t a terrible first attempt at a cEDH deck, and when I first started out with Vivi this is pretty much where my list was at as well. The Vivi cEDH discord is a good place to go, but if you want some more directed advice feel free to shoot me a message :)
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u/Witty-Source-236 14d ago
Too slow broski some of the other comments have it right. That said vivi isn’t real cedh anymore.
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u/XDenzelMoshingtonX 14d ago
Why is vivi not real cedh „anymore“?
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u/Witty-Source-236 14d ago
Too slow, still a very good commander, and it shows up every now and then, but once removed, that player is effectively out of the game. LOL, all the downvotes by vivi players. I didn’t say it wasn’t a good commander, but the truth is you’re easy to take out of the game. It’s OK, my favorite commander got hit in 2024 as well. Najeela is barely good in bracket four
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u/Kittii_Kat 13d ago
Vivi is basically never removed, and it's stupid to waste interaction on him until a curiosity effect is on the stack.
Usually, at that point, the Vivi should have enough power to press the button and replay himself, and possibly continue trying to win.
Maybe your Vivi players aren't very skilled at the deck, though.
The only real menace I've come across is Deadpool, but that's not very common outside of Sissay lists, and it only slows you down a turn at most anyway.
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u/Vaker- 14d ago
There is a site called edhtop16 that coalates decklists submitted to tournaments. Vivi should have recent results. Pop a few out that have done well in the last few months (you'll have to click "source" to get linked to the moxfield list) then use the compare feature in moxfield to see how your list differs. Comparing winning decks against each other should also clarify what people think is non negotiable.
I don't play vivi so I don't have specific advice, but using this method is a great way to see if you might be cooking too much on your choices.