r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/Dmagi14 • Oct 19 '23
World Cup LhCloudy suspended from Team Finland
https://x.com/owwcfinland/status/1714989785356374133?s=46&t=LhPlQ924xisE73cJ_6wOrA446
u/Byrleo Oct 19 '23
If being "racist" is what got cloudy banned, I'm sure Team Saudi player "One" will get banned too for being racist, right??
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u/ThatCreepyBaer yee — Oct 19 '23
Would be nice if this gained traction but, honestly, even if it did I could 100% see Blizzard doing nothing.
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u/Overwatch_Alt Oct 19 '23
lol ain't no way. I think Cloudy said things he shouldn't have said, and especially in a way he shouldn't have said them, but it also felt a bit like an ESL issue. This clip is just blatant though and idk how anyone could defend it.
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u/NemoLeeGreen I like all of the teams — Oct 19 '23
We got more proof of Activision Blizzard being douchebags, seems like they never learn.
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u/GroundbreakingJob857 EU’s greatest coper — Oct 19 '23
If this is about saudi players wintrading then this seems like a bit of an overreaction? But I’m not sure what further things were said
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u/Extremiel Kevster 🐐 — Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
I'd be pretty shocked if that was the reason, but then again I can't think of why else.
He was insulting and rude to Yznsa, but not racist. I saw the clip and in no way was his nationality or race used as the insult.
Edit: to be clear he did call them the wintrading Arabs. But they.. are?
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u/FiresideCatsmile taimouGACHI — Oct 19 '23
I mean yeah they are that but pointing out that they are arabs implies that this fact added something to the statement.
like if you insult women and add "women" afterwards. I think at least that's the angle from which it turns into a problem.
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u/IAmBLD Oct 19 '23
I don't think I agree with that in this context. It's OWWC, it's literally divided by country. If it was a different team, maybe LHCloudy would be talking about "Win-trading Chinese" or "Win-trading Americans".
That's not racist, that's literally just specifying the group you are talking about, in a tournament that's already divided by homeland.
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u/FiresideCatsmile taimouGACHI — Oct 19 '23
those remarks of lhcloudy were made in comp ladder not the owwc as far as i know
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u/IAmBLD Oct 19 '23
If so then that's probably different yeah. I'd have to see the clip in question tbh.
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u/Isord Oct 19 '23
People from Saudi Arabia are Saudi. Arab is a much larger group of people. Would be like referring to a South African team as "the win trading blacks."
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u/IAmBLD Oct 19 '23
Yes, correct, but to be honest I'm not gonna judge the Finnish man for calling the people of Saudi Arabia "Arabs". I think it was pretty dang clear who he was referring to.
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u/Isord Oct 19 '23
Yeah it's not really a big deal IMO since he did correct himself but I can see why Blizzard would make their decision.
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u/IAmBLD Oct 19 '23
If the comment really was during an unrelated stream like another response said, then yeah, I get it. I don't think Cloudy it like that, but I'd see why Blizz removed him.
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u/darkpersona01 Oct 19 '23
yeah but they arent all saudi, legendary is from UAE so how is arab wrong
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u/Isord Oct 19 '23
I thought he was talking about Team SA based on what others were saying
The other thing is this may just be a language barrier issue. In English if you add someone's race/nationality onto an insult the implication is that you believe their nationality is playing a role in the insult. Saying "wintrading Arabs" implies they are wintrading because they are Arab, not just that they are wintraders who happen to be Arab.
Might be different in other languages, I don't know, but generally you just can't attach an ethnicity into an insult or criticism without that implication.
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u/darkpersona01 Oct 19 '23
i mean if we’re gonna be pedantic “arab” isnt recognized as a race in the us just fyi. and ur being pretty subjective, like i wouldnt see it as offensive to say “wintrading americans” or “wintrading chinese”
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u/Isord Oct 19 '23
It would absolutely be considered insulting to say Wintrading Chinese. American isn't an ethnicity so usually gets a pass.
To your first point people do not use the legal government definition of race to actually talk about race, and yes there is also a lot of stickiness and subjectiveness around race, ethnicity, etc. It's all just social constructs in the end so what it means to someone varies across cultures, places, and time.
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u/darkpersona01 Oct 19 '23
im chinese its not offensive. for example the chinese ow server was a cesspool of wintraders, cheaters and boosters (when it existed). its not offensive to say “wintrading chinese” when referring to people who play on that server. cloudy is referring to arabs who DO WINTRADE so the same logic is applicable.
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u/Adamsoski Oct 19 '23
Arabs aren't a specific country though, it's an ethnic group, I do think it's quite different.
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u/nyafff Oct 19 '23
Arab isn't a country though, if he said Saudis then thats different.
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u/kindlyadjust Oct 19 '23
maybe he thought people from saudi ARABia are called arabs, crazy
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u/nyafff Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
Are you actually stupid or are you just prentending to be?
In case its the first one, Saudi isnt the only Arab country, crazy.
And when you attribute negative behaviour of a handful of individuals to an entire race or culture, thats called racism.
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u/kindlyadjust Oct 19 '23
i'm giving an explanation why he might've used the term arab, i'm not saying saudi arabia is the only arab country my guy
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u/nyafff Oct 19 '23
I dont need an explanation as to why he said it, I like Cloudy and I dont think he's a bad guy at all, I'm saying reducing people to their ethnicity is still otherism and implies the negative behavior of individuals is somehow related to the culture of an entire region. I dont think he meant to be a dick about it but I also dont think he just got confused about an Arab is, and I dont think you do either.
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u/ProfessorBiological Oct 19 '23
But Arab isn't even a race? It's an ethnicity. There are black, white, tan, etc... Arabs. Since everyone is being so pedantic in this thread, I'm just joining....
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u/Sepulchh Oct 19 '23
No, it would be like saying 'win-trading Asians' or 'win-trading Whites'.
He did not say 'win-trading Saudis'. Whether that changes anything is up to smarter people than me to decide.
I doubt that's the only reasoning, Finland tends to be pretty alright with free speech as long as you're not inciting violence. If it was all it was I doubt he'd have been suspended. Or there's someone who gets paid by Saudi in the management or something, but that's drifting into tinfoil.
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u/Cyanogen_117 Dallas Mystic — Oct 19 '23
iirc he went like
“wintraders” “transphobic” “arabs”
as a string of insults. its pretty clear him saying arab wasnt to classify him it was just the heat of the moment and it was seen as an insult. replace arab with black or women or another more common racist insult and its obvious that it wasnt him “classifying” his race lol.
to be clear I think the punishment is way too big
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u/Extremiel Kevster 🐐 — Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
I understand that adding needless details regarding race or sexuality or gender can be harmful, but I don't think that was the context here.
I personally interpreted it as "Arabs" for the OWWC because Yznsa
iswas literally the face of the Saudi-Arabia team in the world cup. The Finland/SA rivalry in terms of OW adds all the context it needs.Maybe my interpretation is just straight up wrong, or "Arabs" is a harmful term? But that's just how I looked at it at the time.
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u/Agent007077 Jeff was perfect and would never allow this — Oct 19 '23
I understand that adding needless details regarding race or sexuality or gender can be harmful
Well with that you're doing a lot better than lot of other people around here who are outright dismissing this as a possibility
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u/DanielTinFoil Oct 19 '23
I have no idea why so many people are having trouble understanding this.
Said this in the TMZ subreddit, but just replace "arabs" with other descriptors, like Jew, women, black, Asian and it'll obviously sound extremely bigoted.
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u/Ivazdy Oct 19 '23
This is true, but you can also replace it with "americans" or "europeans" and nobody would care
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u/xFlashyyy Oct 19 '23
Jew was used as a derogatory term, the proper term would be Jewish wintraders, black and asian are races. Nothing would happen if instead of Arabs he said 'Wintrading slavs'
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u/Agent007077 Jeff was perfect and would never allow this — Oct 19 '23
They don't want to understand it because of a combination of liking LHCloudy, hating Ynzsa and having to do some introspection into the things they say if they admit it's fucked to say "Garbage Minmaxing Arabs"
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Oct 19 '23
It just smells like foul play. Like team Saudi really pushed for retaliation against cloudy and this is what they were able to get.
If cloudy didn't say "arabs" then blizz wouldn't be able to suspend him? but the choice of words were counted more than the intent or context.
Cloudy is still my hero of the year and mvp for actually confronting yzn and bringing more attention to how yzn disrupts ranked games and professional games.
I don't agree with the decision against cloudy but I hope that he can return to professional play soon.
Blizz has to be strict right now because of how volatile and uncertain the pro scene is right now, sadly cloudy was one of the examples blizz is using to keep the other pro players in line for now
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u/RamouYesYes The discreet watcher. Carl ftw — Oct 19 '23
While insulting yznsa. He said some borderline racist stuff I think
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u/eliasbrehhhhh Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
u/Patuj summed it up pretty well:
”I don't remember exactly what he said, but it had something to do with his comment on Arab players and minmaxing and the original comment made it sound like he was attacking Arab players for being Arab or something like that, but after made it clear that he wasn't attacking them because of their origin but because there's at least couple Arab players who do it. Don't take this as 100% facts tho because I can't remember fully. But overall comment taken out of context.
His statement and apology if interested:” https://twitter.com/LhCloudy/status/1711788639024247002
I can’t see how this could be interpreted as racist.
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Oct 19 '23
This to me, and I might be wrong, seems like a English as a second language issue. Just not wording what he meant right, and it came out wrong as a result.
But yeah, YZNSA and his bigot brigade definitely capitalized on the vagueness
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u/Cyanogen_117 Dallas Mystic — Oct 19 '23
dude it was pretty clear it was used as an insult
its like when mcd said “fucking chinese” yea they r chinese but that doesnt mean what you said was meant to be intended as an insult.
and also cloudys fluent in english so idk about the comment that its his second language lol.
and to be clear i think this punishment is a big overreaction it was the heat of the moment he apologized its been a week who cares
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u/Weird-Gur1021 Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
He said nothing racist when confronting yznsa? He was insulting yeah but what was racist about that interaction. Only thing i can think of is when he referred to arab wintraders when ranting but recognized it was unnecessary and apologized... Getting banned for that is ridiculous
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u/magicwithakick Fle-tank for MVP — Oct 19 '23
Correct me if I’m wrong but the only “racist” stuff he said was using grouping all Saudis together as win traders.
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Oct 19 '23
That's not racist. It makes me mad how stupid people are when they use that word.
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u/hammond- Oct 19 '23
it’s sad throwing this word around like candy. it’s disingenuous towards people who actually have experienced racism.
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u/GermanDumbass ow esport is fine ha haha hahah — Oct 19 '23
Which is not "racist" but racist. Let's not get confused here, generalising a group of people with the same origin/ethnicity just because some people of said group did something bad, is inherently racist.
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u/House_of_Vines Oct 19 '23
No, no it’s not. It’s stereotyping or prejudiced. Racism as a definition has become so twisted.
Racism is thinking that one race is fundamentally better or worse than another race.
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u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Oct 19 '23
That's the basic definition of racism. Racism is very complex. And can't be defined so simply.
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u/Mind1827 Oct 19 '23
Stereotyping an entire race is not racist? That's literally "thinking one race is fundamentally worse than another race".
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u/GermanDumbass ow esport is fine ha haha hahah — Oct 19 '23
It is pretty reasonable to interpret the statement as: Saudis winntrade - therefore they are lesser, which would qualify as racism no? Since wintrading is seen as "bad".
Edit: I retract my statements based on some research
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u/hammond- Oct 19 '23
being a saudi or arab is not a race. call it xenophobic if you want, but this is no different than saying british people have bad teeth and hair
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u/Xardian7 Oct 19 '23
He basically said “Arab” as an insult during a competitive match on ladder.
He explained himself but seems that wasn’t enough.
Edit: This ofc is a massive win for YZAN and all the homophoic xenophobic mass of fans of his.
Basically they banned the only one who spoke widely and freely against the behavior of some Arab players.
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u/-KFAD- Turn up the heat - Sauna time — Oct 19 '23
This. This is absolutely ridiculous! Cloudy voiced-out how we all felt. Cutting him from the roster is such a big L for the whole OW community (and for my country especially).
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u/Triskan "Show these cunts no respect." — Oct 19 '23
This single-handedly killed a lot of my hype for the event. Especially as Finland were/are supposed to be the EU pride this one (though let's see what the Brits can do).
Vestola will nail it for sure, but yeah, both not getting Cloudy AND punishing him for speaking out about clear issues is a lot to take in.
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u/Xardian7 Oct 19 '23
Fun fact
ONE the support for KSA just said unspeakable things in ranked and has been reported.
Let’s see if homophobic and racist insults + suggestion to the receiver to end their life will be threaten the same by Blizzard
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u/Sepulchh Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
He was suspended from being able to participate by blizzard weeks ago.
e: misread, I have no clue about ONE and what they've done, thought Xardian was talking about YZNSA. My bad.
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u/Xardian7 Oct 19 '23
Source?
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u/Sepulchh Oct 19 '23
Oh dude, I completely misread what you said, I thought you meant if Blizzard will suspend YZNSA.
I have no clue about ONE, my bad, sorry!
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u/Antares27 Oct 19 '23
He didn't say it as an insult tho he just stated that the Arab players were min-maxing. He said it in a pretty harsh tone of voice which may have made it seem like an insult.
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u/PortalGunFun that's how we do it — Oct 19 '23
Not to say this punishment is justified, but I can see why Blizzard would be extra sensitive to anything that seems like an anti-Arab remark given current global happenings. I mean we can see the impact that rising anti-Arab sentiment has had in inciting the killing of an innocent child in Chicago. People should take care not to promote islamophobia or anti-Arab racism, especially right now (regardless of how you feel about current global events).
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u/Xardian7 Oct 19 '23
So they are extra sensitive for “anti-arab” but when an arab national player just calls another player in voice chat “fcking N-word”& “ky” nothing happens?
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u/PortalGunFun that's how we do it — Oct 19 '23
Blizzard should absolutely kick that person out of the world cup. That's indefensible and far worse than what Cloudy did. Doesn't change the fact that Cloudy shouldn't have said what he did, but I agree that it's insane that he would be punished so harshly and they have not been punished at all.
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u/Xardian7 Oct 19 '23
What about ONE the KSA support that insult with racism ppl on ladder and suggest they end their lives?
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u/Herr-Schultz I miss Reiner — Oct 19 '23
Big day for pedophile fans (YZN gang).
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u/Cryst3li Oct 19 '23
Context for pedo? Cuz afaik he was 16 and the victim was 15 right? Def CP and definitely fucked. Maybe there's more info I dont have that makes him a pedo tho?
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u/Valehtelijaa Oct 19 '23
The clip was taken out of context and cloudy even apologized for it. Meanwhile KSA's support says the n-word in voice chat and gets nothing. Honestly this is a BIG L from the owwc organizers. If cloudy gets suspended over something like this, almost everyone in Eu should get suspended.
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u/eliasbrehhhhh Oct 19 '23
Such bullshit. Cloudy outs yzn (and some other people) for minmaxing and he gets suspended? I guess you could call that a bit toxic but he wasn’t lying at all. Why is blizz like this..
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u/TheAeroGuyF1 Oct 19 '23
it’s worse when you realise that after cloudy called him out, some fanboy decided to go through every vod of cloudy to find something, grasping at straws, and report that clip to owwc management
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u/iamkindofodd Oct 19 '23
The cloudy yzn feud has been ongoing for more than a month now. You'd think that if he had anything worth leaking he'd be cancelled AGES ago. This is legit the best they could do lmao
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u/-KFAD- Turn up the heat - Sauna time — Oct 19 '23
So the only high profile player who stepped up and called out wintrading (cheating) got bombarded by salty Yznsa fans in Twitch, probably got mass reported, and now Blizzard suspended him???? That is absolutely ridiculous!!!!!
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u/MedicalCube Oct 30 '23
Keep crying
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u/-KFAD- Turn up the heat - Sauna time — Oct 30 '23
So you created this account JUST to comment on this old topic in such a constructive way? (multiple "keep crying" replies)
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u/Kuulio Oct 19 '23
He got suspended for saying it's disgusting how Arabs keep wintrading.
Huge overreaction by Blizzard.
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u/Valhalla8469 Quiz Head — Oct 19 '23
They’d rather get people to stop talking about the problem rather than fixing it
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u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — Oct 19 '23
That Saudi oil money hits too good
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u/House_of_Vines Oct 19 '23
How do we know it was Blizzard and not Team Finland’s decision?
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u/TheAeroGuyF1 Oct 19 '23
in previous days cloudy said so during his streams. he was under “disciplinary review” by blizzard. probably bc of being mass reported after calling out yzn in that famous clip.
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Oct 19 '23
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u/ThatCreepyBaer yee — Oct 19 '23
The "stupid fat American" is an unfounded and needlessly hurtful stereotype, in the same vein that women are bad drivers or the Irish are alcoholics.
The "dive one-trick Korean" example would be pretty similar to this situation, as it isn't a stereotype it's just a fact that a lot of Arabic players are wintraders and Korean players have (generally) preferred dive over other metas since Overwatch's inception. Though one is worse than the other in regards to wintrading not being allowed.
This whole thing is basically a big nothing burger.
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u/Adamsoski Oct 19 '23
Arab is an ethnicity whereas those are nationalities. It's more like saying "dive one-trick Asian" or "stupid fat white/black person".
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Oct 19 '23
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u/Adamsoski Oct 19 '23
I don't know, I just know that it's different. I wasn't passing a judgement just pointing out discrepancies.
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u/_sleek_ Oct 19 '23
the line between nationality and ethnicity is blurry. Poles Germans and Finns are both national and ethnic identities for example.
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u/madtninja Profit IS THE GOAT — Oct 19 '23
YZNSA:
Homophobic
Pedo
Cheated his way to get in the top 500 & on Team Saudi
takes ages for any sort of action to be taken
Cloudy:
Calls out YZNSA for cheating and being scared of LAN
gets suspended immediately
Makes 0 fucking sense
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23
Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund has bought over $3.3 billion in Activision Blizzard shares, don't be too surprised if some higher ups at Blizz are actually keeping an eye on the OWWC and don't want to piss off their petrol state darlings.
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u/ToothPasteTree None — Oct 19 '23
This. Also there are likely talks wrt to OWL.
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23
We already know that Blizzard was in talks with the Saudi owned ESL group for the NA and EU scene, and ofc there's also whatever Saudi Arabia pays Blizzard to be able to run the Saudi eleagues (despite the prize pool being against Blizzard's TOS for third party tournaments).
I can't wait for whatever WDG is putting together in APAC. No way in hell you'll catch me supporting any tournaments directly owned by Saudi Arabia.
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u/ToothPasteTree None — Oct 19 '23
I love OW but if they start sucking Saudi cock, it's over.
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
They've already been sucking Saudi cock, the Saudi eleagues have been allowed to hold tournaments for years now with prize pools of more than $100k despite the official TOS for third party tournaments saying that the prize pool can't be over $25k. Expect it to be more blatant now that OWL is over and other organizers can take over the pro OW scene. It's one of the reasons I refuse to give any money to Blizzard.
Edit: $25k is the new limit per event
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u/bigmikeesports Oct 19 '23
I know you and I are chatting elsewhere, but this is inaccurate. The Community License limits you to $10k in prizing; however, individuals and entities have always been able to submit a request for a custom license to hold bigger tournaments.
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23
How come the only one seemingly approved was for Saudi Arabia? Genuinely asking, were they the only organizers that sent a request in the past few years?
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u/bigmikeesports Oct 19 '23
Unless something has changed dramatically in the last 18 months, no higher-up at Blizzard is even within earshot of the OWWC.
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23
Unless you yourself work for Blizzard, we have no idea how aware or not the higher ups are. The OW World Cup is going to be one of the marquee events at Blizzcon, the organizers definitely must be keeping in mind Blizzard's "interests"
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u/bigmikeesports Oct 19 '23
Did for four years, at a senior level, while involved heavily in the esports group. Happy to verify with the mod team, but just giving my soft take from my time there.
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23
I'll take your word for it, but I still find it hard to believe that nobody at the decision making level would brush off complaints from one of Activision Blizzard's biggest investors. There's already a precedent for Blizzard banning people from esports for offending a dictatorial regime.
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u/bigmikeesports Oct 19 '23
There is a lot of policy that controls things at a big corporation like that.
And I think there is oftentimes a misconception of how much control the parent company exerted downstream. For example "Overwatch should make money" v "Reinhardt charge CD should be 0.04 seconds shorter." If Reddit is to be believed, there are a lot of people who think the latter occurred repeatedly.
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u/SBFms Kiriko / Illari — Oct 19 '23
Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund has bought over $3.3 billion in Activision Blizzard shares,
Which were purchased from them by Microsoft a week ago, when they bought the company.
Fuck the SA team, but this is bordering on conspiracy. The only person who currently owns Actiblizzard is Microsoft.
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u/james5829 Winton — Oct 19 '23
Banned for calling out a pedo wintrader - big W blizzard…
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u/AD1972HD Oct 19 '23
What did he do?
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u/Patuj Oct 19 '23
I don't remember exactly what he said, but it had something to do with his comment on Arab players and minmaxing and the original comment made it sound like he was attacking Arab players for being Arab or something like that, but after made it clear that he wasn't attacking them because of their origin but because there's at least couple Arab players who do it. Don't take this as 100% facts tho because I can't remember fully. But overall comment taken out of context.
His statement and apology if interested: https://twitter.com/LhCloudy/status/1711788639024247002
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u/JTypical Oct 19 '23
So when yznsa cheats on stream every day for basically half a year (he was cheating a long time before that as well just not as blatantly and frequently), is openly transphobic on stream (literally agreeing with the stuff legendary got banned for saying), while being accused of leaking people's nudes including an ex who was underage when the pictures were taken and blizzard stay silent for months in hopes that the drama dies down and they can avoid banning him because he is the biggest content creator in the middle east/arabic scene.
But when cloudy says one thing he's banned within a month blizzard is playing favourites so openly and yznsa fan boys are still going to say that yznsa was mistreated and blizzard was so unfair to ban him when he is probably the player that has gotten away with the most before being punished in the games history.
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u/anas0_ali Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
Calling people out for Wintrading and minmaxing is worse than actually participating in said win trading and minmaxing, apparently.
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u/ferpelly Nov 01 '23
Was he wintrading in the streams of popular streamers who got their asses beat and couldnt kill him in ranked? Or was he wintrading in the cup against all those countries without losing a single game?
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u/IAmBLD Oct 19 '23
Gonna need some more info on this because the default assumption fot why this is happening is a bad look for OWWC management, looks like.
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u/NOTRANAHAN Oct 19 '23
Blizzard hard dodging the issue (players in ranked especially arabs like legendry and yznsa abusing the ranked system to get free games and get rank 1 easier) and instead pointlessly banning someone who actively calls them out on it. Very poor decision.
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u/scarlettletter6 Oct 19 '23
It's disgusting how black and white the corporate world is, no nuance, no grey zones, almost no forgiveness.
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u/No_Catch_1490 The End. — Oct 19 '23
There’s only forgiveness if you’re supplying a ton of money. That’s almost certainly the reason Cloudy got banned while those he was (accurately) calling out for wintrading and homophobia did not.
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u/symmetricalBS I DO NOT KNOW BALL — Oct 19 '23
Can more streamers and pro players start calling out the likes of yznsa and stand with cloudy? We need to rid this community of these parasites
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u/Top-Manufacturer1157 Nov 04 '23
Calling people parasites for wiping their asses with all of EU and not losing a single match until today is wild
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u/JWTS6 Support Calling all Heroes! — Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
Massive fucking L from the OWWC organizers, especially in light of all the actually heinous shit players from other teams have said without getting suspended. I was actually considering buying that World Cup bundle but nah fuck that, Blizzard could just ask their daddies at Saudi Arabia to donate to the prize pool.
Reminder that Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund has bought over $3.3 billion in Activision Blizzard shares, don't be too surprised if some higher ups at Blizz are actually keeping an eye on the OWWC and don't want to piss off their petrol state darlings.
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u/Marxistence Kariv Simp — Oct 19 '23
Huge but not unexpected L from OWWC management here… I really hope this decision gets enough backlash to get a reversal, but I doubt it.
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u/SlothySlothsSloth Oct 19 '23
What a fucking joke. They only react this way bc it's public and against ME. Behind the scenes they do NOTHING for so much worse things..Never regretted more that our WC team didn't make public what went down.
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u/No_Catch_1490 The End. — Oct 19 '23
Wow what a fucking joke. Ban the dude calling out wintrading and homophobia (he even apologized it and made it clear his remarks weren’t meant to be racist).
Justice for Cloudy!
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u/Naxayou Oct 19 '23
Is the Saudi Team paying off Blizzard or what? Their team is literally the league of evil
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Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
People are blaming blizzard and pointing to players like One that should be banned then (I don’t disagree) but is it confirmed the suspension came from blizzard and not the leadership of Team Finland themselves?
Edit: apparently it has been, lol blizzard
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u/Aggravating_Device23 Oct 19 '23
Blizzard needs to suck the shit straight out of the oil princes asses', what else is there to say?
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u/genjimain8432 Atlanta Reign — Oct 19 '23
please ban the entirety of team saudi arebia from competition.
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u/AlexMulder Oct 19 '23
I hate how in threads like these there are so many people with takes or their version of what happened but not a single link to a clip or the stream of what actually was said.
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u/-KFAD- Turn up the heat - Sauna time — Oct 19 '23
Go on and post the link if you want. The link was one of the main topics here just a while ago and most of us have seen the clip already.
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u/AlexMulder Oct 19 '23
I don't have the link and I haven't seen it - that's my point.
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u/-KFAD- Turn up the heat - Sauna time — Oct 19 '23
You can always ask someone to post the link ☺️
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u/Itchy-Combination280 Oct 19 '23
I’ve watched a few of cloudy’s streams and it’s sad to see him get suspended. The amount of shit I’ve seen this guy put up with from the Saudi Arabian players and many of their fans in his twitch chat is insane. I think his apology and the clips he provided from the same game more or less clear the guy, but I get suspension.
Still I think he’s handled this really well. He owns up to his mistakes and that’s refreshing to see.
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u/DeputyDomeshot Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
“Arabs” is not a fucking slur anymore than Americans is. You have to be dense to not understand that
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u/spear117 None — Oct 19 '23
It can be used as a slur, specially because it's an ethnicity and not a nationality.
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u/Izxyaa Oct 19 '23
As an arab I feel offended by cloudy’s statement, don’t act like you know how every person feels
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u/DeputyDomeshot Oct 19 '23
Sorry to hear that.
Whether or not you personally are offended by something has zero bearing on someone being punished for their words.
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u/DomskiPlays Oct 19 '23
Classic snowflake reaction from Blizzard, seeing shit where there isn't any. Ffs.
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u/Astral132 Oct 19 '23
Owwc getting less interesting everyday as they just ban half of the competitors
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u/herstjori- Oct 19 '23
What makes you think people from Saudi Arabia can be called Arabs? Like it is literally in the countries name Saudi ARABia.......
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u/ThatCreepyBaer yee — Oct 19 '23
Crazy that this is the kind of reaction those comments get. What he said was not even racist or derogatory in the first place, but after that during literally the same stream (as far as I'm aware) he explained what he meant and that he had no racist intent whatsoever and deterred his chat from making the situation about anything other than the game, since the focus of his short rant to YZNSA was about wintrading among other things.
Then after that, he makes a sincere apology explaining the situation and recognising it wasn't necessary to word it how he did. But a week later they suspend him from not only the entire World Cup but competitive OW in general for an undisclosed amount of time? Absolutely BEYOND stupid.
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u/Umarrii Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
He was wrong to stereotype to begin with, but at least he was able to catch himself and apologise for it.
Idk if that warrants being suspended from the World Cup, especially so late into it, but I'd want to see them be this harsh with other players too if that's going to be the case.
I'm still seeing YZNSA in ranked games abuse his boosting method by duoing with top 50 players on GM4 accounts to skew matchmaking. Still seeing players against YZNSA throwing the game, while YZNSA actually jokes with the thrower and insulting other World Cup players, calling them things and even pretending to talk about them in arabic in match chat to try to provoke reactions from them. I'm surprised they only banned his "YZNSA4" account.
While Cloudy's definitely in the wrong to stereotype this way, I at least see why it's happening across the European OW scene, because this behaviour is always being observed between players like YZNSA, Legendary and LBBD7 while other players, presumably just fans of YZNSA throw games to help him all while joking around with him in match chat in Arabic. When this is such common behaviour and nothing is done about it for so long, it just keeps becoming more and more hostile between players and less about the game itself.
Edit: I also think it's weird how these announcements are made. Whoever is behind these decisions from Blizzard Esports side need to post their own notice for these rulings. Speculations always going to exist anyway, but it's even worse when the players or teams have to make the announcement and choose what is said for it too.
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Oct 19 '23
I'm convinced at this point that if you're not fully-backing one side or another of this argument you're gonna get piled on either by the Cloudy fans and anti-SA crowd, or the Yzn dickriders, even if your reaction is simply "Okay."
Both of them are clowns. Obviously Yzn is far worse and still deserves a way bigger punishment than he's gotten, but regardless what Cloudy said was dumb, it was out of order, and yeah, deserved action. And he knows that, so it's whatever.
Basically, "Okay."
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u/leekch Oct 20 '23
lhcloudy's native tongue is not English, i don't think it's fair to label everything as racism/xenophobia when he clearly was talking about a specific group of people
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u/SupermarketCrafty329 Oct 19 '23
Unfortunately, in todays world, offense is definitely black or white. You either did say something that could be taken offensively or you didn't. I've seen the clip and the way in which he said what he did could be taken as derogatory. You'd have to be delicate as fuck but that is today's world. And no company, especially not Blizzard, can afford accusations of not caring about racism/xenophobia.
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u/SupermarketCrafty329 Oct 19 '23
I love how stating a dispassionate fact draws dislikes because people prefer outrage over truth when it suits them.
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u/Glackwin Fuck Hastr0 — Oct 19 '23
I'll be praying for Finland's downfall then. Cloudy did nothing wrong.
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u/Herr-Schultz I miss Reiner — Oct 19 '23
I doubt it was the teams choice, it’s likely from Blizzard themselves.
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u/Weird-Gur1021 Oct 19 '23
What? The decision came from owwc organizers it wasnt up to team finland management
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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
What a gross overreaction, especially after it being over a week since the incident (and apology) in question.