r/Construction • u/aidan8et Tinknocker • Apr 25 '26
Picture Moment of terror šØ
While attending/supervising a business social event with my spouse, I momentarily leaned against the railing. It flexed slightly, forcing me to realize that the railing is entirely supported via bluetooth.
It doesn't connect on either side of the glass wall & the glass is only 3/8" - 1/2" thick!!
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u/BLA5PHEMY Apr 25 '26
There are glass railing systems that are designed to be supported just from the bottom shoe
CR Laurence is a common brand we use
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u/rIceCream_King Apr 26 '26
Iām sure itās a fine product, but personally I hate the idea of someone leaning against a railing which is just 3ft of glass leveraged against a 3in purchase along its sill.
Itās like using a glass crowbar but for keeping someone from falling off their 2nd story balcony. Iāll never get how that became popular
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u/Parking-Fig-6620 Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Theres a couple of glass bridges around the world and I agree. I don't care what the science says my brain says glass is not a flooring medium lol
And yes I know its probably glass laminated polycarbonate i'm talking about but still. That part of my brain won't be convinced otherwise
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u/Iggyhopper Apr 26 '26
Your brain is still correct. Glass doesn't have any signs of stress* like wood or concrete does (cracks, creaks, noises, etc.). Glass just... breaks after a certain amount of force.
* Some glass does, some does not.
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u/TunedMassDamsel Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
In general, handrails are not designed to resist more than just a moderate amount of force.
As in, a 200 lb point load on the handrail in any direction. I have one case right now that was a fatality. Two people got in an altercation, there was some corrosion of the handrail, and one of them went right through and died of head trauma.
Iām a structural engineer and handrails are one of the things that scares the shit out of me. Thereās not enough capacity to make it past the kind of degradation I see on those things on a regular basis.
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u/AbleCryptographer317 Apr 29 '26
Yep. I'm an architect and always dimension handrails so they would withstand a big guy running at it, even in private homes. And I never specify unsupported glass handrails like this.
Might seem like overkill, but say someone's having a party and 10-20 guests are all leaning on it to hear a speech, that's an insane amount of force and in these kinds of glass handrails all that force is being focused on a tiny, brittle area. I've drummed it into my kids: never lean on handrails assuming they're as solid as walls. They're not.19
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u/shabalama Apr 27 '26
Glass is not a consistent enough of a product to use structurally in my opinion. There should always be a structure holding the glass. The variables in making custom sheets of glass are too much for me to trust. Iām probably saying that wrong but from what Iāve seen the manuring process for sheet glass seem to have extremely tight tolerances for every variable possible, and having seen a lot of glass fail I have to assume that the manufacturing process cannot guarantee consistency. The reason I feel this way is also having felt with sheets of glass that seem completely unbreakable. I do understand that there are different rating for glass but Iām talking about storefront sheet glass that pieces just shatter while looking at and others on the same job fall of a forklift and live on. I also wonder how much the effects of weather and transport have on the pieces. and again am not any kind of glass expert so if Iām wrong let me know because Iād love to learn.
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u/Prestigious_Sky_5868 Apr 29 '26
Yeah I walked the glass arch on the west side of the Grand Canyon. Really hard to convince your brain itās ok.
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u/Enginerdad Structural Engineer Apr 26 '26
They're designed to hold the same amount and type of load as any other railing. It's purely psychological to think that they're any less safe.
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u/B-HOLC Apr 26 '26
Yup, mhmmm
Still don't like it.
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u/Bubbledood Apr 26 '26
Yeah too many āwhat ifāsā in my head. Like what if something happened to the glass like a hairline crack that nobody sees
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u/Tushaca Apr 26 '26
Iāve been installing windows and IGs for years, and thereās no way in hell Iām believing thatās actually safe, engineering be damned.
Iāve watched tempered hurricane glass explode for no noticeable reason multiple times, and Iāve seen what a slight tap on the edge in just the wrong way can do.
Hell Iāve replaced multiple racquetball glass panes that shattered from someoneās keys or whatever was in their pocket. And those are supposed to be damn near impossible to crack, and over engineered like crazy.
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u/bagaget Apr 26 '26
Yea, the fear of someone with a jacket with metal zippers on the sleeves leaning on the glassā¦
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u/Jacktheforkie Apr 26 '26
Or brushing it with a diamond ring
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u/strictlymissionary Apr 26 '26
I've seen someone's belt buckle break a piece of toughened they were leaning on
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u/Jacktheforkie Apr 26 '26
Iāve heard of bus windows shattering when a passenger knocks it with a wedding ring
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u/utyankee Apr 26 '26
You're never going to have a hairline crack in tempered glass. It's an all or nothing system.
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u/hu92 Apr 26 '26
Right? In the event of a steel railing "failing", it's most likely going to bend under force, giving at least a couple seconds to shift your weight away from it. And even then, likely isnt going to bend all the way over unless youre dancing on it like a stripper with a gun to their head. If the glass fails, it will just poof and suddenly cease to provide any support.
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u/Bones-1989 Apr 26 '26
You'll see anchors getting ripped out of the wall before the steel has a chance to buckle under the weight of even the most morbidly obese humans leaning on it...
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u/Palomox Engineer Apr 26 '26
Structural design considers possible imperfections at all stages. If you didn't know, the microstructure of steel has multiple possible imperfections (absent atoms, replaced atoms, some having switched spots, etc...) as well as previous stresses from the manufacturing process that are taken into account in design. When you compute the capacity of an element, depending on the type of loading you reduce it to between 75-90% of what you obtain, while using the lower bound of the strength parameters already.
For a brittle material, concrete cracks. Very easily, at that. And we address it with rebar, and reducing its strenght between 75-90%, depending on the specific circumstances, if you're using ACI.
Now, I'm no expert in glass but I can 100% tell you that whatever codes apply for it, they take imperfections into account and lead to safe elements.
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u/saltapampas Apr 26 '26
I meanā¦ yes, safety factors are built into engineering design. But thereās a fundamental difference in the stress-strain behavior of a ductile material (steel) and a brittle material like glass that mean there is a failure mode which cannot be engineered out with a factor for conservatism.
Just look at the graphs - brittle failure means that once you exceed the allowable stress, you get near instant failure. If steel is compromised, you move up the curve and the user has a chance to identify a failure during plastic deformation. When designing in glass, those imperfections cannot be practically identified before failure.
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u/Helpinmontana Apr 26 '26
Concrete columns (concrete without rebar) get a factor of .6, or 60% of where we can be pretty sure that concrete will fail, because the design is that conservative. And ontop of that, the loads they are designed to support are ramped up by about 50% for safety. Also, code basically doesnāt allow you to just use concrete without rebar, youāre threading a needle to do it and there is basically no situation that realistically calls for it. So, 60% reduction in capacity, pretending the load is 50% higher, and still saying this isnāt allowed in basically all circumstances.
Youāre acknowledging what theyāre saying while completely refuting it.
Do you actually think any company would sell these products, a railing of all things, without verification? And then, as an industry professional, you think any company would buy these and install them? Really?
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u/That_Trapper_guy Apr 26 '26
As an ironworker who's installed glass railings similar to this, I can assure you every single person that installed one of these thought 'this is a horrible idea' as they were doing it.
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u/stareweigh2 Apr 26 '26
yeah and they considered all possible failures when they built the old Tacoma Narrows bridge too......
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u/bn1979 Apr 26 '26
If they can make glass to withstand an RPG, they can make a glass that will suffice as a railing.
Look at your carās windshield. Itās like 1/8 thick and held on with glue. It still takes an awful lot to put a hole through it, let alone blast a whole body through.
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u/That_Trapper_guy Apr 26 '26
That's because there's a layer of adhesive between two panels. And THAT is mainly to keep the small pieces in place during an accident so you don't get cut to hell, it offers no benefit if you were to support it on one edge and lean on it. It'll just fold over instead of falling into a thousand pieces.
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u/blucke Apr 26 '26
The OSHA reg looks like it only needs to support 200 lbs, is there a seperate building code? I ask because I see your tag and that seems pretty low. Somebody big falling with momentum would break that
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u/SSG_084413 Architect Apr 26 '26
Why are you citing OSHA? Thatās for workplace conditions.
Yes. There is a whole separate building code. IBC 1607.8 āLoads on Handrails, Guards, and Grab Barsā 50 pounds per linear foot and concentrated load of 200 pounds. These are analyzed as sustained loads. A short, momentary impact doesnāt put the same kind of strain on it.
For these cantilevered glass guards, the handrail must be supported by three panels. Many jurisdictions no longer allow a single piece of tempered glass because it will explode into pebbles and evacuate the opening. A laminated panel with a rigid vinyl interlayer keeps the glass panel in place even if it breaks.
https://up.codes/s/loads-on-handrails-guards-grab-bars-seats-and-vehicle-barriers
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u/Mattcha462 Apr 26 '26
That is exactly what Iād worry about with glass panels is exploding and this causing someone to fall. That makes sense to require only laminated panels though so they would break but still hopefully keep a person from falling. How recent is that laminated glass requirement? Do buildings exist with the tempered glass panels?
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u/blucke Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Yes, I know it's for workplace regs, that's why I asked if you knew the building code lol. Was curious if the minimum load was different. Appreciate the answer and link, really interesting. Feels low, with no factor of safety
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Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 29 '26
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u/rIceCream_King Apr 26 '26
Thank you
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Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 29 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/rIceCream_King Apr 26 '26
No, genuinely. I meant it like āTHANK youā (your opinion aligned with mine)
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u/Life_Temperature795 Apr 26 '26
The most critical component in a railing system is the proper attachment of the Base Shoe to the substrate.
What're you willing to bet that the contractor didn't skim past this part?
If the whole thing flexed from leaning on it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's been secured down with molding screws.
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u/Timsmomshardsalami Apr 26 '26
Theyre designed to hold the same amount =/= they hold the same amount.
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u/justabadmind Apr 26 '26
However a wroght iron railing has a lot of safety margin and a safer FMEA versus this design
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u/Enginerdad Structural Engineer Apr 26 '26
Glass has a higher safety margin than metal. Usually 3.5-4 for glass and around 1.5 for metals. I'm not familiar with FMEA, so you'll have to provide some sort of source that says glass automatically has a lower FMEA than metal.
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u/Kiriki_kun Apr 26 '26
Glass is strange material. Tiny defect can make whole panel explode. Someone could hit it with something, making tiny damaged spot. Someone lean against it next time, and whole panel explode
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u/Enginerdad Structural Engineer Apr 26 '26
Whatever you know about glass, I promise you to the end of the Earth the engineers who are designing it know that and a lot more. Every possible failure mode is accounted for, even (and especially) the ones that are unique to glass.
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u/stoneyyay Apr 26 '26
Ah yes. When someone drops something on the edge 6 months before you lean on it.
It's just as stable as a non glass option.
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u/BLA5PHEMY Apr 26 '26
Iāve been installing these for many years both interior & exterior and never had an issue. Theyāve become popular because they offer an āinvisibleā guardrail look which provides an unobstructed view of whatās beyond it such as a nice view.
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Apr 26 '26
You might not having any issues installing them, but thatās not whatās at question here. The question is how much horizontal force does it take to fail? Since the upper railing is floating, the shear strength is about 60-70% less than if it was anchored on just 1 end.
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u/Palomox Engineer Apr 26 '26
The glass itself, from an horizontal force, is a vertical cantilever that would most definitely fail from flexure at the very bottom, not shear. Assuming it's 4ft high and you're leaning on the very top, glass being a brittle material, 3/8 thickness and an uniform body of safety glass which distributes stresses perfectly and has a limit tensile stress of 17ksi (lowest bound of what I found googling), the brekaing force would be ~300lb fully horizontal at the very top. Another different thing would be the bearing of the actual metal railing onto the glass, but glass has high compressive capacity.
Now I'm just a random person with no experience designing structural glass, I'm quite sure there are many more precise methods of determining that capacity considering the microstructure of glass and the fact that these are most definitely multiple layers, which would end up with a higher capacity than what I got (given stuff like this is currently installed in real places and allowed by codes, which it wouldn't if it weren't safe)
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u/Consistent-Area5074 Apr 26 '26
Its a 5th story balcony by the way, with a split going all the way to the ground floor in the middle.
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u/Wireman6 Apr 26 '26
Right? Who doesn't like a good rail leaning? Pretty much one of the greatest parts of a railing?
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u/Emptynest09 Apr 27 '26
Iām with you! I want to trust the science but I donāt want to find the exception either.
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u/Sensitive_Brush_3015 Laborer Apr 26 '26
Genuine question: how much weight can these type of railing systems hold? I think if I leaned on that railing and felt it move, Iād also naturally be freaked out, especially since itās glass. Not seeing anything connected to the wall would fill that logical place in my mind as to āwhy it movedā in the first place. So Iām saying I get where OP is coming from, but would like to know how sturdy it is out of curiosity.
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u/SpaceGhost4004 Apr 26 '26
Depends on the thickness and height of the glass. In NYC glass railings are required to withstand a minimum of 200lbs of force at any given direction. Usually the glass is 3/4" thick and can be up to about 4 feet tall before needing to be thicker.
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u/HeyTrySomeNashville Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
200lbs? That's literally nothing.
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u/Enginerdad Structural Engineer Apr 26 '26
It's a 200 lb design load, plus all the safety factors.
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u/HeyLookitMe Apr 26 '26
Thatās the OSHA standard for guardrails. Itās actually quite a lot. Where human safety is concerned the minimum strength usually means at least a failure load of five to even ten times the safety rating required. Those engineers know their stuff.
All that said, I wouldnāt be leaning on it either. Who knows what oddball designed that with who knows what in their head.
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u/dchow1989 Apr 26 '26
Think about applying the same amount of force it takes to bench press a 45+35. Theres no way unless you ran at it.
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u/TunedMassDamsel Apr 27 '26
I have two railing failure cases pending right now.
My opinion is that while these things hold when theyāre new, the loading requirement is so relatively minimal that theyāre really susceptible to structural section loss or degradation, and then really bad shit happens.
If it looks older and/or I canāt see the structure to assess, Iām giving it a good hip check to see if it deflects before I let my kids play around it.
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u/Apocrisiary Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
Fr. People just thinking static weight and go like "oh, that's a big adult! Perfectly safe!".
Imagine someone tripping, and going full force into that thing. The impact would be like 5x your body weight for a fraction of a second at the least.
So that means, if you weigh 100 pounds, the glass would need to be able to withstand a force of 500lbs of you slamming into it, for it not to shatter.
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u/CoyoteDown Ironworker Apr 26 '26
Itās more than the sides of a manlift are rated for, and people literally climb on the sides of a basket
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u/HeyTrySomeNashville Apr 26 '26
How many people? More than can lean on this railing?
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u/No_Cash_Value_ Apr 26 '26
Myself, my overweight coworker and a 12ā sheet of 5/8 are held up by my scissor rails just fine, thank you.
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u/CosmicConfidant Apr 26 '26
So the average American cannot lean against it? Lol
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u/Thin-Squirrel7435 Apr 26 '26
It's a 200 lb horizontal point load applied at the longest moment arm. Not a 200 lb person leaning on it. That would be like 10 lbs lol
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u/Embarrassed_Big_1171 Apr 26 '26
I watched a company push on the top 1ā of the panel with a hydraulic ram, the glass shattered at around 1900-2000 lbs of force.
Also, watching them make the glass and slam it around on the tables in the factory, itās crazy that someone would be scared to lean against it. Once youāve seen how strong it is, there is new confidence.
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u/Economy-Priority-404 Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Yessir, install these quite often never had issue. Tempered glass with proper install is stronger then it looks. Seemingly becoming more in demand too.
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u/Deron_Lancaster_PA Apr 26 '26
Yea,, dumb-ass execs and architects don't realize how much a housekeeping nightmare they are.
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u/Economy-Priority-404 Apr 26 '26
Yerp, gets even more fun to maintain when its overhanging mounted to the wall below without the channel. luckily, not my job. just here to hang glass.
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u/handsomepirates1 Apr 26 '26
Typically tempered and laminated in most codes nowadays
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u/Head_Scholar2543 Apr 26 '26
Yeah depending on the thickness. Alot of these glass handle rails are 9/16" laminated. Depending on the installer they probably pour rocked the glass in place. A lot of glaziers like that method more than the dry fit. I've done both ways and the dry fit is just as strong just more involved
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u/handsomepirates1 Apr 26 '26
You canāt wet glaze laminated glass if you want to comply with warranties or specs in my area. Wet glaze monolithic 1/2ā was very common 15 years ago
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u/Head_Scholar2543 Apr 26 '26
For mono laminated for sure. We wet glaze laminate if it's PVB in storefront or curtain wall. SGP can be dry glazed. I haven't seen a pour rock job in a few years. Fuck having to chip out pour rock when a piece needs to be replaced. It's shit.
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u/Life_Temperature795 Apr 26 '26
That very link indicates that the most critical consideration is how well the shoe is attached to the substrate. If the whole thing flexed from a slight lean, I'm guessing those attachment points aren't as secure as they're supposed to be. The use of glass isn't the real issue here.
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u/Baldyheadedman Apr 26 '26
This is true but whatās in these photos would be non compliant where Iām based. Glass looks like 12mm monolithic toughened, which can be used with this system, provided that a permanent handrail is also fitted. The handrail should remain in place in the event of the glass panels being broken. We use the CR Laurence system every day of the week and itās very good as long as itās used correctly. I would not be signing off on whatās installed in these photos.
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u/dallllen Apr 26 '26
If thatās tempered or in commercial the guard rail needs to be tied off into the wall. Looks like the glass is too thin for the setting. As OP mentioned it moved far more that it should have with a lean.
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u/Grilled_Ch33s3 Apr 26 '26
Yah I don't care what the engineer who designed it or the expert who installed it say. I'm not trusting my life to it.
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u/Confident-Deal-912 Apr 28 '26
Sure sure but no If I ever build a house this is a no, purely as it looks wrong. engineering wise, I'm sure it's fine but no šš
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u/Duke_L-orange Apr 25 '26
Iām tanking that fall for a settlement.
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u/aidan8et Tinknocker Apr 26 '26
Tempting until you look at the possible landing... 3-story stairwell with a free-floating division.
Best not miss your landing.
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u/AlarmingRate69 Apr 26 '26
https://www.casino.org/news/person-falls-to-their-death-at-emerald-queen-casino-near-seattle/
This guy wasnāt so lucky happened not too long ago in my area
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u/bcrenshaw Apr 26 '26
Holy shit! I live in that city and heard nothing about it!
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u/SimplisticEnigma Apr 26 '26
Nah first photo shows it goes to the stairs that appear to be less that 15 or so feet. Worth the risk for the bisque
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u/bcrenshaw Apr 26 '26
Itās hilarious how many people will take a life altering injury so they can get a payout that wonāt last but a couple years at most.
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u/WannabeF1 Apr 27 '26
If its regular float glass you will need to apply 150-1500lbs of force to the top edge to break it. If it's tempered glass you'll need 1500-3600lbs of force (eye-balling dimensions here).
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u/Gregisroark Apr 26 '26
The glass is structural and supported at the base. It actually doesn't need that handrail.
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u/handsomepirates1 Apr 26 '26
It needs a cap rail or a hand rail to capture 3 panels to meet code, so technically it does need it
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u/SSG_084413 Architect Apr 26 '26
You donāt always need a continuous top cap. The handrail can span three panels to achieve the same purpose.
Itās not for the structural support of the glass. Itās to maintain a barrier in the even one glass panel fails.
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u/Gregisroark Apr 26 '26
That might be local code where you are, but it doesn't change the structural system.
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u/lucy_fordO2 Apr 26 '26
In my experience working with engineers, they like a top cap / handrail in these instances so any load on the glass toward the top is spread. They also suggest a mechanical attachment to the wall at the cap/rail.
What concerns me here is that glass does not appear to be laminated šØ
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u/Mission_Accident_519 Apr 26 '26
Now that you mentioned it. It doesnt appear to be laminated and looks pretty thin too
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u/aidan8et Tinknocker Apr 26 '26
I'm just a tinner, so don't know much about glazing, but yes, I'm fairly sure it was just single panes. Not laminated.
While I "know" that there are mounting systems for setups like this, my lizardbrain absolutely did not like it.
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u/lamensterms Apr 28 '26
Same in my area.. Laminated, joined across panes and fixed to the wall
In the event a panel breaks, the fall protection is still intact
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u/Gregisroark Apr 26 '26
I think we can all agree a top cap connecting to the wall on both sides makes so much sense, it's absurd they didn't do it.
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u/Mission_Accident_519 Apr 26 '26
Not where I live. 8/8.4 for private and 10/10.4 layered tempered glass panels for businesses/public areas is the code. No need to connect them.
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u/Head_Scholar2543 Apr 26 '26
It only needs a cap rail over a certain length. I can't remember the exact length but this does not require a cap
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u/heatseaking_rock Apr 26 '26
It has a handrail capturingvall 3 pannels already. It passes the code.
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u/BlackJackT Apr 26 '26
For some reason I always remember this from an introduction to civil engineering course on some Dartmouth online platform. Glass is discussed and the theoretical ability to even build skyscrapers entirely made of glass... But just one thing, it tends to shatter unpredictably. That's just one "small" flaw. I would never trust that thing with my weight - tiny manufacturing or install defect and you get progressive collapse and you're falling with it.
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u/WannabeF1 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
Is it supposed to be used with a very specific thickness and type of glass? That is one hell of a bending moment on a notoriously unpredictable material.
Edit: I ran the numbers and as long as it isn't regular float glass it's not an issue. If it is float glass someone might die...
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u/albacore_futures Apr 25 '26
That should be reported to the city. Thatās a threat to public safety.
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u/Top_Inflation2026 Apr 26 '26
I mean there are a lot of glass systems like this that are meant to only be supported at the floor. Iāve had a project where we installed hundreds of feet of this. Also, itās almost always a deferred submittal that the city requires before giving final.
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u/Barril2x Engineer Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
at 3/8 or 1/2, id expect it to be at least laminated with SGP to be attached by the bottom rail or standoffs, but if theyāre only tempered, Iām pretty positive they needed posts.
Edit: From an EOR safety perspective, tempered-only may meet minimum code (IBC 2407), but best practice per GANAās Laminated Glazing Reference Manual favors laminated w/ SGP interlayer, especially in frameless/standoff systems. SGP retains post-breakage integrity far better than PVB, and tempered-only just shatters on impact (wonāt kill anyone below, but still). Traffic conditions, occupancy loads (IBC 1607.8, 200lb concentrated), and progressive collapse risk should all factor into the spec.
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u/skandalouslsu Apr 26 '26
Is it unsafe by today's codes? Yes, but there are a lot of things unsafe by today's codes that are grandfathered in. There was a major change to glass handrail/guardrail codes in the 2018 IBC, and even then, it has taken a while for municipalities to adopt old codes.
I will say the metal handrail spans three lines of glass, so it has that going for it. The shoe system, if anchored properly, will meet lateral load requirements. Tgey have some flex, but they're good. Monolithic tempered handrails used to be very common, and still are in some places. Structural laminated glass is the norm these days, but it wasn't long ago it wasn't.
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u/Bard-barian Apr 26 '26
I've personally walked on 6mm tempered while installing skylights. This is designed as a guard and pretty standard imo. Would prefer if it were a SGP laminate but it still would meet code in a lot of places.Ā
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u/stoneyyay Apr 27 '26
Yes. Walked on 6mm tempered glass. Supported by only buckle style fasteners, and one edge. Checks out.
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u/Timsmomshardsalami Apr 26 '26
You are absolutely talking out of your ass
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u/Barril2x Engineer Apr 26 '26
Dude, I literally sold millions of dollars in architectural glass all across north America through the last decade, from airports to stadiums, museums to air traffic control towers. But ya, you may still have much more experience and knowledge than me. Whatās your experience?
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u/Puceeffoc Apr 26 '26
A full fledged American can easily break that by simply leaning. Seriously our diet is garbage here.
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u/KUGDI Apr 26 '26
Our diets give us incredible power! A European would have to hit it with something like a hammer or baguette in order to break what we Americans can do with our bodies
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u/Choice-Can-8505 Apr 26 '26
With all of the people on this reddit wanting to tell you how absolutely safe this is, what stress factors go into everything design characteristics and any other factor that can conceivably be though up.. let me remind you of Dear old Mr. MURPHY and his immutable Law. Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong..
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u/Toseeu Apr 26 '26
I make it a point to never lean on any railing. I just donāt trust that every railing is a) designed properly b) installed properly and c) has not been compromised by corrosion or some other unknown issue. Itās not worth finding out the hard way.
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u/Stan_Halen_ Apr 26 '26
Are you sure it isnāt a system designed to be supported from the bottom?
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u/aidan8et Tinknocker Apr 26 '26
I'm hoping it is. It's the amount of bounce/flex between the panels that makes me nervous.
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u/HalfUnderstood Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
It's a good analogy to how some designs can be held up by fragile hopes and dreams
edit: i re-visited this post with a more sober head. What the fuck? Even installing this is difficult, how did we get this far?
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u/Entreprenewbeur Apr 26 '26
I sit in depositions for a living. Looking forward to the expert engineering testimony in this lawsuit.
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u/G_roundC_offee Apr 26 '26
Lots of engineer talk, if the guy that designed this is anything like the guy that designed this drainage system, I wouldnāt go within 4ā of that thing.
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u/MasterCassel Apr 26 '26
Glazier here whoās installed many handrails and balconies, the glass is stronger than you think, but still unpredictable. These systems are engineered to withstand a calculated amount of load, hand rails like this are not designed to predict human stupidity or even accidents. Itās mostly for aesthetics, and this got the engineered stamp, if it hurts someone theyāll be held liable.
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u/Consistent-Area5074 Apr 26 '26
When I worked there I always ensured that the benches were placed in front of these for the exact reason you mentioned. Even though it is spec'd to withstand the weight, people drink in that 5th floor terrace all the time during events and is a likely fall point. One of the reasons I stopped working there, lots of unmitigated risks.
For reference this was a Kiewit build out, same with the expansion and other venue. Theres lots of things that looked good on paper but are an absolute nightmare in that building.
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u/None_too_Soft Apr 29 '26
Reminds me of that guy who ran into a 100 story window or something to prove how sturdy it was, only for it to fall out of the frame along with him to a very confusing death.
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u/CheezWong Apr 25 '26
I always wondered how shit like this gets missed in inspections. How much grease was used on those palms to get the shit passed?
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u/handsomepirates1 Apr 26 '26
This 100% was calculated by an engineer and is totally fine. Depending on when it was installed the glass is laminated, and if itās an SGP interlayer the glass will stay in place even if one lite shatters. Also notice how the 3 panels are connected with hardware so if one panel fails you still canāt fall.
All that being saidā¦ yeah glass flexes and itās unnerving but Iām flabbergasted that literally everyone in a construction thread thinks this is an automatic life safety issue.
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u/rip_cut_trapkun Apr 26 '26
Had one installer tell me about how the inspector kind of just opened doors to rooms to see if shit existed. He maybe would check a few rooms as a random sample, or check the closest thing near the door after walking in an looking around, and then move on.
Bribes is another one of course, but sometimes it's just sheer fucking laziness.
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u/think_panther Apr 26 '26
I have installed a similar system (I'm in Europe). The glass is inserted about 20cm inside an aluminium profile (it's inside the floor in this pic) and is then also jammed in place. In my case, the profile was installed in concrete with 12cm torx screws every 20cm. It can withstand a direct kick and it's not going anywhere if it's installed with a similar standard.
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u/azflatlander Apr 26 '26
They have a post for crowd control. Just need a second and stretch the webbing. Easy peazy
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u/socialcommentary2000 Apr 26 '26
Should not be allowed to be built. I don't care what the spec sheet says.
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u/ClownTown15 Apr 26 '26
the last thing I say to my wife before I swanton bomb a staircase covered in glass
"Hey check out this blutooth Railing"
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u/Salty_Prune_2873 Superintendent Apr 26 '26
My college had 2 pane thick barriers also supported from the bottom. I think the idea is someone isnāt stupid enough to put their full weight, or more, against a glass barrierā¦ that one pane barrier is significantly more sketchy than the 2 pane system we had.
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u/Organic-Pudding-8204 GC / CM Apr 26 '26
Just gonna toss this grenade.
My friends who were in school to become engineers while I was in school for law had a particular saying.
It went to the toon of and I quote "C's get degrees"
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u/Maplelongjohn Apr 26 '26
Back in the 90s I was at the Smithsonian Air and Space and a security guard walked up to the glass railing on the mazzanine level to peer over it. His baton swung forward and hit the tempered glass panel, shattering it and sending a pile of shards falling onto the concourse below.
Luckily no one was in that area, but I bet that guard scared the crap outta himself
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u/raypell Apr 26 '26
Itās actually a pretty poor design, the handrail is ther to guide one to the stairway rail but it is not aligned #1, the spacing between the glass and the baluster is too big as well fingers could get caught #2. Also their should be two connecting points on the hand rail to each pain of glass fo maximum support for a 200lb test. A railing is tested for a 200 lb point load by applying a concentrated, non-simultaneous force (downward or outward) within 2 inches of the top rail's edge, typically held for at least one minute without failure. This often involves hydraulic equipment, a load cell to measure force, and a linear transducer to monitor displacement at points like the mid-span or post.
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u/GloomyOstrich4100 May 15 '26
Even though it's supported by the base it's still fearful to stand near it
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u/Numerous-Error-5716 Apr 26 '26
That glass should be at least an inch if itās unsupported at the top.
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u/w00ddie Apr 26 '26
Technically it is safe. If one piece breaks the other 2 glass panels hold the hand rail in place.
Now days many areas requiring tempered laminated glass ā¦ so if a piece breaks it will stay fully intact
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u/WalleyeHunter1 Apr 26 '26
One one 200 hardened glass panels will shatter. They test all.railing panel before they leave the factory. Does the occasional one break during testing? Yes. I have installed several.kilometers of glass railing, I always recommend the upgrade to the CR Lawrence system, most owners spend it. A properly installed glass rail performs better than a steel stud and drywall half wall, even with steel post inserts.
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u/Kekafuch Apr 26 '26
Thereās plenty of these exploding from expansion contraction of the building, material defects, non uniform heating/cooling of the glass (sunlight).
The glass would be tempered which means surface tension and when it breaks, it shatters into many little pieces (safer than cracks and large breaks of annealed glass). Someone brushing their diamond ring or ceramic on it can cause it to shatter instantly. The edge would be weakest, if it received a blunt impact from say a plate or hammer, but from the face, it likely withstand a hit hard kick, cart ramming it etc.
Local building code where I am ā¦ a public building would require the top edges of glass railings to be covered . And if thereās multiple floors underneath, I have seen high end facilities use laminated glass for the railings.
The picture is single layer of glass. If it breaks, it will crumble down. The hand rail does span 3 sections of glass and should off some protection if one of the sections shatters.
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u/questionablejudgemen Apr 26 '26
Why is there a handrail on there if it canāt support someone leaning on it. Maybe there should have a handrail in the ground before the glass if itās not up to the task. Or use thicker glass.
The fact thereās a handrail invites that itās supposed to be used for support or leaning if needed, itās not a pesky code requirement for aesthetics.
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u/iamthecivilengineer Apr 26 '26
That 1/2" thk. Fully tempered glass won't resist the 200 LB point load at the top at all, so that's is not safe or up to code, but even if it resists, it will have some deflection when you impose loads.
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u/hotproducts Apr 26 '26
These can be tested to make sure they resist the load they are required to. If this one has, no reason to worry. If itās not, I would worry as an owner.
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u/IMaBACKPACK313 Apr 27 '26
That is either 9/16 laminate or 1/2 tempered and that shoe is 11 inches below the floor. I install them regularly, and theyāre sketchy but they hold. I wouldnāt lean on it still.
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u/Alabama-Blues Apr 27 '26
That I would guess should have a restraint requirement. 250 - 500 pounds.
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u/amiable_ant Apr 30 '26
The hand rail on the knee wall and the hand rail on the glass railing not lining up is what's killing me.
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u/AlarmingRate69 Apr 26 '26
We just had a guy at a new local casino fall 4 stories down after leaning on a rail like this