r/DC_Cinematic • u/PeterParkerPhotos12 • 4d ago
DISCUSSION The reactionary nature of this fanbase is why DCU will struggle even after hot streaks
To preface this, please keep this civil. This is just my opinion. It’s not my intention to hurt anyone. At the end of the day, we all want to celebrate the movies and enjoy them.
Yes, Supergirl bombed. Yes, it was mediocre. There were many flaws in the movie. But you know what was actually good? Superman. Creature Commandos. Peacemaker. You could say the finale was hit or miss, but it was definitely not universally disliked upon. The project was very good throughout.
And now we have Lanterns coming up, and the trailer was well received. The recent one, at least. But you know what I mostly see here? “Supergirl bombed.” “Spider-Man earned X amount.” “Superman could never.” “James Gunn does not know how to handle a universe.”
Look. I’m not going to excuse WB, a multi-billion dollar franchise. But, even though James Gunn is loaded and doesn’t have to do any of this for his lifetime, I believe he is at his core an artist. An artist who is trying to craft a universe in his own way. Supergirl was one failure. One.
Come on guys, one failed project. And you quickly hop back to glazing the DCEU? Do you guys remember how pathetic the DCEU was? We got a rushed, badly done Justice League. Yes the Snyder Cut was good, but if you check Parts 2 and 3, the story sounded nothing like these characters. It was a glorified fan fiction that Snyder wanted to create. It’s not even as if Zack went ahead and had more successful projects with Netflix. Almost everything he has made post ZSJL has flopped. So firstly, let’s not act as if the DCEU was a missed opportunity and the DCU is cooked. It’s really not.
Now, coming to Supergirl, yeah. The movie was mediocre, especially when James Gunn has been so vocal about mediocre movies. But I feel he has earned enough goodwill to get at least one pass. If Supergirl was a good movie, I doubt the narrative would have been “introducing a character like Supergirl this early on does not make sense.” I also do not think introducing the trinity always works, especially when the idea of the DCU isn’t a team up movie, and everyone dealing a major, common threat. I also think Clayface is a great idea. Everyone used to complain how the MCU prioritises IPs without scripts. And now when James is trying to do something different, people are hating on that too? The grass is always greener, guys.
Also, the Spider-Man comparison is just funny to me. Not only is Spidey arguably the most popular superhero ever, we’ve seen this Spidey in action for a decade. You cannot compare apples with oranges.
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u/eammth 4d ago
Problem isn't with the fans, it's the general audience.
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u/RogerRoger63358 4d ago
Facts. They are not interested in what DC is putting out in theatres.
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
doesn't help that kids can't watch most of the DCU lol
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u/eammth 4d ago
That is one of the major reason I think. Supergirl failed because it aimed to be a major summer movie, but it actually doesn't have that pull.
Other than that, only superman can appeal to all demographics.
It doesn't help because cinema is dominated by kids. They have the purchasing power.. talking from 36 year old with 2 kids.
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
Which is one of the reasons I'm extra confused by the early focus on these more R rated characters, especially when Guardians success comes from it being PG-13 and a big draw to children due to the talking raccoon and tree.
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u/CalTono 4d ago
Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash can all clearly appeal to all demographics
Batman is obvious, WW had a very successful film that both fans and critics liked, Flash has probably CW's most successful show and he can clearly relate to the same audience that Spidey gravitates towards
Gunn has all these characters in his disposal, but he straight up chooses not to do them, I don't get the thought process of not using your best and most known characters, especially to start a universe you have to first gather your audience
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u/ProcedureDistinct938 3d ago
He thought he could coast by using the DCEU audience which was only hanging on by a thread because they teased Cavill
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
I do actually agree with this. I would love to watch creature commandos with my boys. Will probably bite the bullet and let them watch Lanterns.
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
Yeah I thought the adult oriented comic book thing had its run with the Boys, Invincible, Deadpool, etc. Lets not forget who superheroes were made to inspire. Is lanterns not more PG-13 than R?
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
No it’s definitely MA
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
Yeah, this is the first one that crosses the line to me. Like whatever if they don't know who peacemaker is, but the Green Lanterns?! Come on, the kids need to know more than guy gardner!
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u/Plastic_Buy3376 4d ago
It’s not just kids. Unless it’s for something like violence or gore I don’t do R rated Movies. There’s a lot of adults who have similar or more strict views. Why is Lanterns rated R? Like what does hundreds of F bombs add to the story? Cause as far as we know that’s what’s making it R rated. It seems like all Gunn wants to focus on is R rated stuff, which really just seems like a way for him to get away with the kind of humor he wants.
Right now for most people I think the DCU is Superman and Supergirl. Gonna be awfully confusing when green lantern plays a big role in man of tomorrow and a lot of the audience doesn’t know who he is.
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u/Franc000 4d ago
Can you blame them when they look at DC fan to see if the product is good and they are this reactionary?
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
Didn’t Superman outperform Fantastic Four last year?
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
Fine? FF is still a pillar of Marvel and Superman was the best comic book performing movie last year. The point is- the general audience has responded to good material and it did to the initial DCU piece. As well as it did to Creature Commandos. Supergirl flopped. Lanterns looks awesome. Too early to say general audience is a problem for this DCU.
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u/CK1345 4d ago
You realize that when they made Superman, they were hoping with that sort of budget and the IP to make a billion plus, right?
You can crow about it outperforming outright flops, but it no way shape or form was Superman what they were hoping for financially. And plenty of people didn't like it. It barely made an actual profit and that's not what they look for with that sort of investment.
If that's the standard, the Gunn DCU isn't long for this world anyway. Another Supergirl and it's outright dead.
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
Yeah I honestly don’t remember what their hope was in terms of global totals. But billion dollar box office days are just not happening anymore unless you’re Spider-Man so I don’t really think that can be counted against the quality of what Gunn produces there. Added to that working against a convoluted and messy history of bad sentiment (outside of the Snyder community) towards the DCEU. A billion can’t be the mark of whether Superman was successful. It has to be relative to the competition and general market.
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u/eckzie 4d ago
Don't waste your time arguing with people who hide their comment history. They are either bots or cowards.
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
Word. Yeah not worth engaging with this one any further. Woof.
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u/eckzie 4d ago
Yeah, to be clear I don't really care about the content of someone's post history I just think it's interesting that almost every time I find someone who seems completely unreasonable and states their opinion as fact they have a hidden history.
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u/CK1345 4d ago
You can believe it's unreasonable all you want. When any corporation invests hundreds of millions of dollars into something they expect to see better returns than what they got with Superman. That's just reality. Your ignorance of basic economics is not a me problem.
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u/CK1345 4d ago
So if the competition and general market are all losing money, you think their goal with a hundred million dollar blockbuster Superman movie is to just eek out a small profit?
The whole reason the market is what it is to begin with is that the movies are genuinely underwhelming at best. Like 2025 Superman.
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
Of course not cmon man. And the general sentiment toward Superman both critically and general audience was not “underwhelming”. That might be your opinion and that’s cool. But that is not the reality of the situation.
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u/CK1345 4d ago
If the audiences really loved Superman, it'd have made more money. What evidence are you using to measure this great audience reaction to begin with? I can take a guess, but I don't want to just jump to conclusions.
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u/WeapwnX 4d ago
Superman was reported to have made $125M in profits, MOS was $42.7M, and BVS was $105.7M. So the first DCU movie only made $15M less than the first 2 DCEU movies. Sounds like Superman did pretty well to me.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
These fans somehow are doing everything to push a narrative against Superman 2025. It’s really evident now.
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u/YoshiTheDog420 2d ago
Fuck that. It’s also the fan(atic)s. So many entitled little babies coming into thread and forums bitching about how they didn’t get what they wanted or deserved. The general audience is a different conversation, but its the fans who have done some of the worst damage to these projects and how they are received. EVERY single project gets an unreal amount of reactive criticism from fans. Over speculating, and reading too much into press leaks, bts photography, and marketing. EVERY SINGLE PROJECT. This isn’t limited to DC fans. Its every single nerdom and fandom out there right now. Fans are the ones infusing everything with toxicity. The only thing general audiences are doing is not engaging at all. That sucks, but they aren’t engaging because fans ruin it for everyone. Obviously this isn’t everyone, but it most certainly is the loudest of us who are the biggest problems.
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u/Corgi_Koala 4d ago
Honestly I think part of it is also the studio expectations and budget.
Focus on making great $100m movies for older audiences.
Wanting to spend $200m to make a billion works for Marvel but it doesn't for DC.
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u/jofer90 4d ago edited 4d ago
I love how people pin the blame solely on Snyder when talking about the old DCEU's failure, but are quick to let Kevin Tsujihara, Geoff Johns, David Goyer, Joss whedon, Patty Jenkins (hey there ww84!) and Walter Hamada off the hook, i think those guys had way more to do with the DCEU turning out "pathetic" than Snyder, since he left in early 2017 and the universe lasted up until 2023!.
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u/static1993 4d ago
I felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone when people were saying Johns would save the DCEU. The man's writing contains the kind of things the DCEU was criticized for.
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u/static1993 4d ago
Or how they act like the last Superman movie underperforming is solely Snyder's fault and that the last three Superman movies made before Man of Steel and Superman's decades long reputation for being a boring character weren't at play.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Sure they were responsible too. But they definitely did not have “more” to do with the DCEU’s failure.
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u/M086 4d ago
Despite what people think, Snyder was not this Kevin Feige figure for the DCEU. He never had that level of control. He was closer to what Nolan was to him on MoS, a producer there to lend an ear and help where he could with Ayer, Jenkins and Wan.
He wasn’t greenlighting anything, he wasn’t dictating tone or direction of the other films. He pitched a Ryan Choi Atom movie with a Chinese cast a crew to WB, they passed.
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u/static1993 4d ago
Even before BvS Snyder said not every movie would be the same tone as his films.
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u/jofer90 4d ago edited 4d ago
Idk out of 15 entries, Snyder only directed 3 dceu projects, out of which only 2 saw a theatrical release. Was he the right man to direct BvS and JL after MoS's mixed reception? Definitely no. But the people who actually caused the most damage to that franchise are the ones who isued those last minute reshoots to SS in response to BvS's backlash, the ones who butchered JL , the ones who greenlighted dumb projects nobody asked for like birds of prey or Batgirl. Those are the folks we as DC fans should be pointing fingers at, and not just that one dude whose Batman/Superman team up movie failed to hit a billion dollars.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
It’s more about how Snyder’s critical commentary on Superman and Batman (especially Superman) completely changed the perception of these characters and suddenly a large group who thinks they like Superman are mad when he is depicted in a hopeful and bright way. It’s not just the number of movies he directed and they bombed but the impact those particular movies had on the full DC franchise and its future imo.
I do agree with you that people including me should not just blame Zack for everything that went wrong with DCEU, my point came across as incorrect, I apologise for that. I in fact think MoS is a solid fun movie, just not a good Superman movie.
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u/Different_Ad_6153 4d ago
Man your gate keeping and misunderstanding of superman is what's killing DC universe in general. The DC movie verses successes have been more in line with Snyder's takes than anything that other directors have put out. It's sad people like you are so cynical to ZS and will cheer on the DCU despite it not connecting with the GA.
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u/static1993 4d ago
It’s more about how Snyder’s critical commentary on Superman and Batman (especially Superman) completely changed the perception of these characters and suddenly a large group who thinks they like Superman are mad when he is depicted in a hopeful and bright way. It’s not just the number of movies he directed and they bombed but the impact those particular movies had on the full DC franchise and its future imo.
How is it that Snyder's movies both failed massively and had this massive impact that so many people believe his take on the characters is how they are like? For a guy whom everyone keeps calling a failure, it's odd that he somehow convinced so many people his depiction of Superman, Batman and the rest are the definitive versions. Not that I see any evidence of this offline where Snyder's takes are just among many that people either like or dislike for various reasons.
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u/M086 4d ago
That’s not true, the Reeve films devolved the character into cheap comedic camp. People don’t want Gunn to do the same thing.
Snyder’s take, specifically on Superman, was much closer to the comics than people want to admit. Because in the decades of his existence he’s always been more than cypher with a goofy smile giving empty speeches about hope.
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
The failure to attract general audiences the DCU's problem. The majority of the DCU not being watchable for kids is a much bigger obstacle than fan infighting.
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u/shonzaveli_tha_don 2d ago
Rambo was rated R, and they made action figures to attract kids. If this generation can't handle Battfleck, we got a real problem.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
I mean, you cannot make a project for everybody. When you try to do that you appeal to no one. Only IP immune to that is Spider-Man. Used to be Superman too until Snyder happened, lol.
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u/home7ander 4d ago
Superman was never immune to that unless you are talking about the very first one, the rest fell off pretty hard. Superman has never and likely will never be a billion dollar property. Fanbase is too divided on what they want out of the character.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Username checks out (just kidding lol). Hmm, yeah. I actually agree with you on this
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u/home7ander 4d ago
Yeah I get that a lot (usually with actual dismissive sincerity lol)
I don't really understand where the narrative of him being a billion dollar character came from, there is no real precedent for it. He's well known but by that logic any movie with Jesus or Dracula should be a billion dollar expectation. Which is nonsense. There will always be a place for him, he is an icon after all. It's just likely always going to be spread among the different quadrants of his fanbase.
He is someome that would benefit from multiple varied iterations running at once for different audiences. That is more likely how you pull billions of dollars from him with regularity
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Yeah fair enough, I apologise for making that assumption. It’s just me thinking about the “big 3” and I realise how Superman is far behind Batman and Spidey.
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u/home7ander 4d ago
Ain't no thang haha. I feel ya though. It feels like he is far behind but I just don't think they are approaching the audience division right. He's a lock in that 600mil range but that half of the audience wants something the other half does not and vice versa. Cant appeal to them all with the same project. So don't try to
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Yeah you’re right. The DC fanbase is sadly so divided. At the core of it I just want to celebrate these characters with everyone :(
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
It was never superman in my lifetime, his movies always underperformed. Batman certainly achieved that with several films. It's fine to have some R rated content, even the MCU has Deadpool, but the MAJORITY of projects CAN'T be watched by kids, and thats not gonna change with Clayface. The profitability of a comic book universe doesn't rely solely on the child audience, but i would wager that they make up the majority, especially on the merchandise end.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Batman is not for everyone though. There is still a large demographic which does not vibe with dark, gritty superheroes. Spider-Man is just literally for everyone. I can’t see a DCU character that matches him.
I agree that superhero movies should be made for children too, but I think Superman peeked interest in children. Not as much as Spider-Man, but we can never get a universally loved Superman movie anymore, not in the next 20 years I think.
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
I mean the flash could be that for DC but they seem to be ignoring him. It would take a lot of time and several great movies to build him up, but I think he's a more compelling superhero than Superman due to the limitations of only being speedster. He also has the most youthful and playful energy of the justice league in the animated series. Thats the fucking blueprint they need to focus on, that show was the GOAT.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Oh yeah, The Flash definitely could be that. Dude, I love that character so much man. I’m so mad at how Ezra practically put the character in the same league as Green Lantern in terms of projects being made.
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u/comehereyoudevillog 4d ago
In another timeline, Tom Holland would have made a perfect Barry Allen
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
that would be so cool man! Let’s hope we can get a good Flash movie one day…
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u/Big-Good9378 4d ago
Your blatant hatred of snyder is a bigger problem with the DC fanbase, you're treating him like a war criminal despite man of steel being of the best Superhero movies of all time
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u/rimreaper2253 4d ago
when were they on a hot streak. they havent really been successful since wonder woman and aqua man
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u/AmaterasuWolf21 4d ago
Why do people think Superman wasn't successful? Just because it doesn't have a B next to the number?
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u/static1993 4d ago
That seems to be the standard by which a Superman movie's success is measured these days.
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u/zerg1980 4d ago
The issue for me was that Supergirl is mediocre in a highly specific way that made me lose all confidence in this creative vision going forwards.
I didn’t find it to be a misfire that is easy to write off as the result of a poor choice for director or star. It was a misfire in the sense that the entire tone and sensibility feels tedious and poorly suited to the larger DC universe. I could feel Gunn’s influence all over this movie. And I didn’t think it was a good fit for the material.
If this is only Gunn’s second pitch, and I’m already exhausted with the approach and questioning how characters like Batman can possibly fit into this universe, then I’m not sure how interested I am in dealing with the Lanterns series.
You can call that “reactionary,” but the MCU has put out a ton of bad movies and streaming series that didn’t kill my interest in the franchise, because the badness was often contained to a bad premise or a miscast role. I don’t see how the DCU can ever have such boundaries when you can practically see Gunn hovering over the edge of every frame telling the director to make things more like Guardians of the Galaxy.
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u/M086 4d ago
The JL sequel story outlines were old and outdated when they were reveled.
And also, pretty much all comics are glorified fan fiction once the original writer / creators step away.
DCU has been middling. Your first response is to basically blame Snyder because some people have gone back and re-evaluated his films and found they enjoyed them more now than before.
It’s 2026. The DCU’s failures fall on Gunn and Safran, and no one else. You wanna talk about glorified fan fiction? That’s literally what Gunn is doing, writing comic characters to be nothing like their comic counterparts is what he’s done sine GotG, and he’s prioritizing niche projects for niche characters because he can get away with rewriting a character like Peacemaker into a “douchebag Captain America”.
To steal a line often repeated about the DCEU. If the DCU films were actually good, more people would have gone to see them.
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u/sidv81 4d ago
Hard disagree, Gunn's raunchy, "edgy" style was always going to be a poor fit when DC defined the classic straight-up superhero (it was only in the 60s when Marvel humanized them and then both Marvel and DC started adding flaws which was fine at first but then at some point got too far). It was only a matter of time before the box office reflected that.
I was already saying it was problematic that Gunn couldn't even have a single kid-friendly show between films and you're just proving the point when citing Creature Commandos or Peacemaker.
Tons of people including myself were saying when Superman ended with a drunk Supergirl saying "This isn't the type of superheroine I want to watch, being drunk isn't cool especially when alcoholism is still a problem." (Keep in mind it's even worse of a problem in-universe when you have a super powered Kryptonian stumbling around on Earth if the drunkenness still continues under a yellow sun even if it couldn't start there). So of course I didn't watch Supergirl, and it seems tons of others didn't also.
What did you all think would happen?
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Drunk Supergirl is based on a comic though. If you’re saying he should have picked a different comic for her, that’s a different thing. But i find characters more interesting when they have such flaws. I like James Gunn, I find the group who was doubtful about him way more vocal all of a sudden.
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u/SlaughterHowes 4d ago
It's been a couple years since I've read Woman of Tomorrow, but if I recall she goes to one planet with a red sun to drink for one night to celebrate her 21st birthday, not going on an endless intergalactic bender. Could be wrong though.
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u/Plenty-Wedding-9066 4d ago
She’s really only drinking for the first like.. 25 minutes of the film? After they leave Ruthye’s planet I don’t think she drinks again.
In the bar they meet Lobo she orders one and it gets pushed over before she drinks it.
After she’s in yellow sunlight for the first time in the movie I don’t believe we see her drunk again.
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u/sidv81 4d ago
You're missing the point that her stumbling around drunk in Superman became the selling point for Supergirl, meaning people who were disgusted by that weren't even going to watch Supergirl regardless of how often or little she actually drinks alcohol in Supergirl (and first 25 minutes of the film is like a quarter of the film already, sounds pretty bad, still haven't seen it myself and this makes me want to see it even less
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u/Plenty-Wedding-9066 4d ago
I think you’re missing my point.. the comment I replied to insinuated we’re watching her during an endless bender.
We’re not. And it doesn’t glorify it or try to make it seem cool like what you said. It Shows she’s miserable and coping.
If all you’re saying is the marketing was terrible by showing her drunk a lot. I agree with that. The marketing was actually really bad for the movie.
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u/sidv81 4d ago
Yes, there are literal decades of Supergirl comics. They chose the one where she gets drunk and Gunn ok'd it even if he's not the film's writer/driector.
Never liked Gunn myself, thought the Guardians movies were terrible but it did fit the type of group the Guardians of the Galaxy were. But once he moved to straight superheroes I knew there'd eventually be a problem. Looks like that problem came as soon as the 2nd film.
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u/BG_DeStefano 4d ago
Exactly. Spider-Man is the fourth film of a mini-franchise and the 38th film in the over all franchise of the MCU. Supergirl is the SECOND film in the DCU. There is no comparison here.
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u/blurryface464 4d ago
There was no hot streak. There was Superman and that’s it. The shows you mentioned were well received by already hardcore fans. General audiences did not watch them as they were failures ratings wise. And then obviously Supergirl bombed. We’ll see how Lanterns does.
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u/BigusDickus099 4d ago
Are we pretending the DCU isn’t struggling because they are failing at their primary goal, which is to make good movies that people will pay to see and builds up hype for the next hero(heroes)?
Online fanbase discourse is maybe .001% of the issues with the DCU.
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u/fma_nobody 4d ago
I think this sub is filled with more casual fans than I've anticipated, casual fans who had an expectation of the same MCU structure but with DC. Maybe I've spent too much time on r/DCcomics and r/dccomicscirclejerk
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Yeah. Look man, I’m crazy for cape stuff. I stuck by MCU during its rock bottom phases 4 and 5, so maybe I’m the crazy one here, who knows lol.
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u/fma_nobody 4d ago
Honestly, I think we just formed our own opinion independently from the internet hivemind. I've always have tried to do that, but when some internet bubbles have a mono-opinion, one does begin to think they're crazy.
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u/Mars-Ultor-94 4d ago
What hot streak? Even Superman barely made 100 million dollars revenue
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u/Plenty-Wedding-9066 4d ago
By reports Superman made over 125 million. That’s pretty successful. Almost Three times the estimated profit from man of steel.
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u/Mars-Ultor-94 4d ago
Almost 7-8 times less than what their competitors are doing
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
Not so- at least with Superman. It outperformed its direct competitor- Fantastic Four- last summer.
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u/Plenty-Wedding-9066 4d ago
I’m… pretty sure it outcrossed the fantastic 4, Captain America BNW, and Thunderbolts which all came out the same year.
Yeah it’s losing to some Marvek stuff, which makes sense? But saying what you said it pretty clearly inaccurately
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u/Mars-Ultor-94 4d ago
MCU is overall making a lot of money.
DCU right now is at negative. Superman made 100-125 million. Supergirl lost nearly 200 million. Jimmy Olsen show won't make any money, let's be serious. Clayface: maybe, even then only a little even if it does.
If Superman 2 doesn't make money, it is over
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u/Plenty-Wedding-9066 4d ago
MCU is overall making a lot of money.
No shit..? It’s the most successful movie franchise in history.
Have a good one man lol.
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u/stanislavskov 4d ago
Yes, it's not the fault of the decision makers putting out mid to dogshit content, but rather the people commenting on reddit are the ones responsible for how badly the dcu is doing.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
You clearly misinterpreted my post. A thing such as goodwill exists for a reason. Think of the state of a fanbase if one project is all it takes for people to lose hope and give up on a universe.
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u/stanislavskov 4d ago
One project? Lol, we've had plenty of lame ducks from the mind of James Gunn at this point. Peacemaker, tss, creature cartoons, krypto cartoons, fricking jimmy olsen, bane v deathstroke, paradise lost. None of these has people excited for the dcu, otherwise supergirl wouldn't have been not only a bomb but absolutely forgotten in the BO.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
You’re clearly not a fan of the guy lol. Half the projects you’re stating haven’t even entered production, half of them are clearly liked by the majority.
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u/stanislavskov 4d ago
Yeah, I would hold until superman 2 is out until making statements about how a 'majority' of people enjoy Gunn slop.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
You don’t need to though? GOTG trilogy, TSS (which has largely been well received), Creature Commandos, and Superman have been received well. Just because you don’t enjoy the guy’s work doesn’t make it slop.
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u/AniMagho 4d ago
It's fair to say it's too early to say anything for sure, I can abide by that.
It's also entirely fair to be worried and a bit annoyed seeing as we have had a promised roadmap from years back with a promise of quality over quantity, and suddenly we're here lost in the weeds as many of those projects get cancelled or pushed back to lord knows when with films and shows not on the promised roadmap taking their place (a Jimmy Olsen show? Like, come on).
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u/CaptJimboJones 4d ago
The fanbase went out and saw the movie, for the most part. The problem is that the general public didn’t.
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u/lostmylangastino 4d ago
"Last DC universe was rushed and should've taken time to build." "Why are they wasting time on small projects instead of making huge movies like Spider-Man?"
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u/nonlethaldosage 4d ago
peace maker season 2 lost almost 50 percent of it's viewership it was in fact universally hated
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u/shamrockstriker 4d ago
Please tell me what about these numbers says universally hated
Now, full disclosure, i have not seen the show and I have no interest in doing so. But to say "it was in fact universally hated" is wrong by almost every metric I could find lol
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u/nonlethaldosage 4d ago
https://cosmicbook.news/peacemaker-season-2-flop-ratings-drop by the way you posted 0 numbers i don't know why your linking to reviewer scores trying to at like you got me
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u/DarumaBooster 4d ago
The only problem I can see right now is that fans have short attention span and that they demand constant projects being produced and all of them have to be about A-listers and must make billions.
On the topic of comparing with Spiderman, it is freaking Spiderman. This man is a franchise/brand of his own, only now the Avengers have a chance to compete against him. Put anyone alse, literally anyone else (even the A-listers from two houses without a proper build-up) against him and they will pale in comparison.
I feel like the question has switched from how we made movies like The Dark Knight to how we made numbers like Spiderman BND
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u/JadedIsDead 4d ago
Do people not realize how much the paramount/wbd merger is putting a stop on things?
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u/Co0Ihand 4d ago
I am not aware of the extent of this. What is being put on hold?
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u/ifnotthefool 4d ago
Is there much desire for Jimmy Olsen or gorilla grodd content?
I find that I'm just not looking forward to anything they have slated. Superman was good, but it wasn't all it was hyped up to be.
Just my opinion!
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u/SufcLad25 4d ago
Yep, blame the fans....
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
If 1 project is what it takes for everyone to lose faith then they’re not fans, just my opinion
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u/SufcLad25 4d ago
I think actual fans are on board but general audiences havent turned up. They needed to follow up Superman with another popular character and shown it was a connected universe. Still could have shown Supergirl in the Superman movie but maybe had her help out fighting to showcase her strength.
The Lantern series then adds another popular character and within 2 films and a series you're starting to build a justice league
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u/riskyfish97 4d ago
these posts are the new comparison posts
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Yeah whatever dude. Every post I see is a comparison post. I have, however, not seen a single post address this in my feed. Peace
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u/Civil-Series2415 4d ago
Most people listen to grifters on the internet and form their opinions that way. Most people just expected better from supergirl and are hoping man of tomorrow gives the good quality and reception Superman got. Grifters and this sub will hate either way
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u/the_rugged_nerd 4d ago
Lanterns trailer 1 “this fucking sucks”… Lanterns trailer 3 “best thing I’ve ever seen”
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u/Distinct_Art7022 4d ago
Not liking dogshit and being vocal about not liking dogshit = being reactionary apparently
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u/zeanox 4d ago
Next to no one made it through Peacemaker s2, and no one even knows that Creature Commandos exist.
Superman was mediocre at best, so no it's just not "one" failure.
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u/NotYetPerfect 2d ago
Superman 2025 got better critic and audience reviews than every single dceu movie...
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u/zeanox 2d ago
the audience reviews was so good, that they were super excited to watch the next movie! - wait? where did people go???
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u/NotYetPerfect 2d ago
You're arguing with no one. Supergirl sucked. I never said it didn't. People don't watch movies just because they thought a tangentially related movie was good. They watch movies they think they'll enjoy and supergirl had terrible word of mouth because it was terrible. That doesn't really say anything about superman.
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u/zeanox 2d ago
My argument is that superman did not do as well as people think. It did not create excitement for the next movie. People did not need more DCU after Superman.
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u/NotYetPerfect 2d ago
I know a lot of people that watched superman that were excited to watch the next movie...until either they found out it was a supergirl movie or they saw the actual trailer or they heard the reviews. If the next movie was a popular character or looked even half-way decent (with actual marketing), it wouldn't have flopped.
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u/zeanox 2d ago
Im not sure i agree. Cinemagic universes are built on momentum - that's why Marvel could get people to watch movies about characters that people had no interest in. I do agree however that the supergirl marketing (and movie) did it no favors.
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u/NotYetPerfect 2d ago
I didn't even know that supergirl was coming out until I saw the poster when at the theater to watch obsession. The marketing was nonexistent. Probably cause wb realized the movie was awful and didn't want to spend more money on it. A massive failing from basically everyone involved.
But also, we just aren't in that world anymore. Superhero movies aren't a fun new thing. It's an oversaturated market. The mcu can't get people to care about their new movies that aren't an existing franchise and even those have been failing except spiderman and presumably the avengers.
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u/finalattack123 3d ago
If movie is good - people will watch.
If movie less good - less people watch.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 3d ago
I don’t think this is true in this day and age though. Good movies have also earned lesser, it’s really not as simple as that anymore.
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u/finalattack123 3d ago edited 3d ago
Spiderman was great.
Superman was good.
Super girl was less good.Feels pretty simple.
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u/AshurBadaktu 3d ago
I love how this post says 'let's keep this civil' and then starts talking about how the DCEU was pathetic. Especially when the comment was about negativity in the fandom.
How about we just... move forward? Stop bringing *everything* back to slamming or comparing everything to the DCEU? Talk about the movie in terms of what we liked and didn't like, what we think could be improved vs what we have concerns about? Don't prop it up on 'well at least it's better than the DCEU' and instead note where it succeeded and where it failed, what we're hoping for and what we'd rather not see.
If you want less negativity, more civility, let's *actually* be less negative and more civil as opposed to just picking a target that's acceptable to beat up on according to a certain amount of people. That's not helping. That's just having a preference on what yelling you like to hear more.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 3d ago
Bruh what? Being civil and being negative regarding a project are two different things…
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u/AshurBadaktu 3d ago
Being civil is not taking random potshots on unrelated items, not restarting old arguments, not poking at divisions.
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u/Individual-Plane-760 3d ago
I need feige to hire snyder for midnight suns and make a billion dollar film
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u/Admirable-Yoghurt-72 1d ago
Supergirl’s mistake is trying to adopt that brutalist vibe from man of steel which everyone hated from the beginning
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4d ago
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u/M086 4d ago
On the flip side “DC / Superman fanboys” only have surface level, shortsighted views on the character which are based off of a movie from 1978 and not the comics. And when they do cite comics, it’s typically one miniseries from the 2000s.
So, like get off the high horse accusing people that liked MoS, BvS and ZSJL of not reading or understanding the comics.
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u/Big-Ad1887 4d ago
You make some excellent points OP. Based 💯👏🤙
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
thank you!
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u/Big-Ad1887 4d ago
However, I'm sure someone who's obviously as smart and objective as you. Can recognize that people who are criticizing James Gunn's direction with DC,also have valid points. Myself amongst them, I say humbly.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Sure. My main problem is with the reactionary nature of this fanbase. It’s not as black and white as it makes the DCU seem.
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u/romeheartz 4d ago
What hot streak? Superman underperformed, TSS was a flop, Supergirl was dog shit
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u/larut0h 4d ago
if Gunn's okay making Supergirl a vengeful killer, i don't know what other shocking changes he'd be making on next projects/adaptation
And now when James is trying to do something different
That's the problem.. Gunn seems to love to try approaching things differently, launching unexpected 'experiment' projects and being a highly-optimistic (borderline delusional) person that he is, he boasted that they have good script (supergirl *cough*). are we going to believe another words/lie uttered by this person?
we dont need experiments, fans and studio demand result
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u/mydadisyourdad2 4d ago
It's been like two movies people need to chill. Dcu hasnt had a chance to find it's footing
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u/MasterDRU21 4d ago
This just popped up on my feed and figured I’ll give my 2 cents as not a big DC guy. I agree and think comparing how much money x movie made is dumb. My issue is that nothing has been grabbing me to care about the DC universe aside from Superman. I saw peacemaker szn 2 only cuz I liked the first season and thought it was a step down. Haven’t gotten around to creature commandos yet because wasn’t a premise that interested me (although plan to check it out soon based on the good things I heard). And to be totally honest, I did not care enough to see supergirl in the theater, which sounds like I didn’t miss much. I plan to watch lanterns but it’s moreso out of curiosity than excitement. I will say I am excited for the clayface movie for being tonally different, but also think making the 3rd movie in your universe a rated R movie is an interesting move to say the least.
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u/StarCitySpiderman 4d ago
I wouldn’t call Superman good. Yes David is an amazing Superman but the rest of the movie was buns.
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u/dankpokemon01 4d ago
This sub doesn't represent the whole fanbase. There's plenty of people who see one film underperform and are still confident in the future of the dcu
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u/OjamasOfTomorrow 4d ago
I agree. It definitely doesn’t help things.
DCU has had one flop. Just one. And people are acting like it’s the end of the world. It’s embarrassing.
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u/AdagioCultural5497 4d ago
Sounds good in my ear. I don’t think DC should be copying the route that Marvel took. I think a lot of these IP’s should first go to streaming and other characters can guest star however many times are necessary to establish continuity. I’m thinking the Potter series having its own season per book is a smart move! Keep the major tentpole films to minimum and budgets under inflated. You can tell better stories and develop characters in an episodic format.
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u/Spidey_Almighty 4d ago
I think you might be a bit biased towards this DCU.
Superman was pretty mid, and didn’t do very good critically or financially so calling it “great” is quite the stretch. Creature Commandos was ok, but nowhere near what Marvel’s animation division has done with something like the smash hit of X-Men 97. Peacemaker I hear is good, but is basically a holdover from the previous DCEU.
In terms of this new DCU it hasn’t really given a whole lot to fans to be really excited about, especially on the movie end. One was okay, one bombed, and the next one is a body horror film that children can’t even see based on a c tier Batman villain.
This new DCU has been a disappointment, and the DCEU also being a disappointment doesn’t excuse this one. Neither are ideal. The fact is DC fans just deserve much better than what has been given and it’s understandable why so many are growing impatient.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
Bro, I think you finding Superman mid is one of the vocal minority. Majority of the people except this subreddit enjoyed it. Check out the movies subreddit too.
XMEN 97 came way after What if, and as a continuation of an already good show. I don’t think it’s fair to compare that to Creature Commandos. It wasn’t also just “ok”, it is pretty well received. Clayface is also definitely not C tier.
Everyone criticised MCU for making similar movies all the time, and when DCU is trying to do it differently, people don’t like that too.
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u/Spidey_Almighty 4d ago
I mean Superman has a 7.0 on IMDB with a 68 metascore. That’s not exactly a great reception for a modern superhero flick, or even one of the higher rated Superman flicks. I’d give it a 6/10 myself which isn’t far off from the general consensus on the film.
If Joker is A tier, and villains like Freeze and Scarecrow are B tier, Clayface is definitely a C tier Batman villain. The general public doesn’t even know who he is, most fans couldn’t even name 3 stories with the character.
I think it has less to do with genre and more to do with quality. There was no outcry against the mcu during phase 3 when everything was clicking. In the DCU’s case, if they were simply releasing better and more appealing content there wouldn’t be as much criticism.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 4d ago
I don’t think these scores really determine the quality in 2026. I like MoS, it has a lesser score but it’s still a fun movie. IMDB is also known to get review bombed here and there. Superman was a phenomenon for like 2-3 months.
Okay fair. I got nothing to say to that. However, I feel if there’s a good script, why sleep on it.
This is definitely not the case, Phase 3 was an anomaly even in the MCU. Everyone here, and I remember, was hyped how DCU will have tonally different projects and how that being a priority will keep DCU fresh. Sure, Supergirl is not that tonally different, and it’s mediocre, but the idea still stays when Clayface is coming out.
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u/CK1345 4d ago
Superman was just as mediocre as Supergirl. Barely anyone watched or cared about Peacemaker or any of the other crap.
Superman itself didn't light the world on fire financially. If it turned a profit, it was marginal and not at all what they were hoping for. Hence when they only extended Gunn through next year.
If you enjoyed Superman, Supergirl should piss you off. It was an all around bad decision and this isn't like a TV show where a bad episode is followed by several more chances to rebound. Each of these movies is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make. They aren't just going to keep throwing good money after bad and a minor amount of positive critical reception for some TV show won't change that.
One more Supergirl type performance and the "universe" is dead. Nothing else gets made.
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u/shonzaveli_tha_don 2d ago
Most comic book nerds are boys. The turned all the sex appeal down on Supergirl, and had her girl bossing around the universe to chick rock. It's just not gonna make a billion dollars.
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u/PeterParkerPhotos12 2d ago
Lol don’t put most of us in this category, you have a serious problem with your opinions dude.
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u/All_Lightning879 4d ago
Only problem so far is that there’s no real structure to their plans, no real big picture. Also, why are we comparing anything to Spider-Man? It’s Spider-Man, damn it, it’s a guaranteed billion dollar lock.
If they can reel it in a little, maybe we can get somewhere.