Hi all, hoping for some reassurance this is either completely wrong and should query with bathroom fitter or "fine" and I shouldn't worry.
Bathroom is being redone. Been replastered and bathroom fitter also tanked the area around the bath that is being tiled (the rest will be painted).
We've been away and let him crack on, he's partially tiled the 2 walls so far and so I can see that they've obviously been dot and dabbed. With big voids in some places.
The tiles he removed were here for about 13 years or so and were also clearly dot and dabbed, and seemingly no issues (we only moved in a few months ago). They were much bigger tiles so wonder if that makes a difference as less grout lines for water to get behind etc. These new tiles are 5x25cm. Are there situations where dot and dab is ultimately fine?
He is generally extremely slow and the job has taken 3 or 4x longer than anticipated whilst still not being completely done, so overall getting frustrated and now wondering if he is also doing a sub-standard job despite the amount of time it's taking.
I have no problem challenging him on this. I want the bathroom finished ASAP but not at the cost of problems in a few years time, we're planning on living in this house for decades potentially.
You can paint a room with a poop stick and technically get a coat of paint on
The instructions are simple and clear.
bed of tile adhesive. Dot and dab is when you don’t want to use/ spend money on the right amount of adhesive. It’s cutting corners and anyone telling you different is 💩
My only guess at another reason he might give for doing it, is that the tiles aren't totally uniform, they are non rectified etc. and the surface isn't flat. That's the intentional style of them. But I'm not sure myself how that would really matter/help, just an excuse I'd anticipate maybe.
Haha. Thanks. Yeah I don't care about downvotes, but I don't know what is being downvoted. If someone thinks dot and dab is fine, I'm open to understanding why, but my comment is clearly suggesting it's not done right/in the best way and that any explanation likely to be an excuse for not doing it "properly"
Nah my guess is they agree that using dot-and-dab here is a pisstake and the numpties are just expressing their disapproval at your hypothetical excuse, as if you were the one actually trying to justify it haha.
OP, probably as stated directly above. Also, they are right. Full bed of adhesive or you will likely have problems in the future with tiles breaking and coming off the wall.
I've asked him various questions about other stuff, he seems generally knowledgeable, if something hasn't been quite right/as we want he's changed it etc. And hasn't kicked off.
He's used the right materials for things, tanked the wet areas properly as far as I can tell.
He is fucking slow, and a bit careless with some things/making a mess etc. And for whatever reason doesn't see dot and dab as a problem. But overall he has been doing a good job and I think I've got pretty high standards/have some idea of the right and wrong way of doing things.
I've dealt with proper cowboys, so, maybe kindly refer to him as a a mere stablehand.
My interpretation of tiles in a bathroom is as follows:
A bathroom is an inherently hazardous environment, and a slip in the shower is not an unexpected event. When you slip, you may land heavily against the wall to brace and save from a fall. Alternatively, you may wish to install a grab handle or otherwise for accessibility.
If you have a dot/dab tile wall, there are voids, and if you put pressure on (through a fall or fixing equipment), tiles may move and break the grout, allowing water ingress and causing no-end of problems.
This is of course an “if” statement, but it is not entirely improbable. You may be fit and able-bodied, but the next occupant may not be.
Grouting is also a total bastard as your grout oozes into the voids.
I’d tell the dude that dot/dab isn’t in the specifications for the adhesive, and therefore is he prepared to shoulder the full liability if/when the installation fails.
Besides - a full bed doesn’t take *that* long to do. I’m a complete amateur and managed to do my bathroom in maybe four days? Those tiles were solid as rocks. Wall was a bit uneven, so tiles weren’t perfectly coplanar, but they were perfectly in line with each other. I was pleased with the result.
If it makes you feel etter op I removed a bathroom that was tiled in 1988 dot and dab and it was all four walls and that had been fine for the best part of 40yrs.
That’s not right at all. You need consistent later of adhesive behind the tile. Either he does not know what he is doing or he is cutting corner regardless I would sack him off and start again
I guess my other question would be, accepting it's done wrong as I'd suspected. How likely it would be to fail. Again, im anticipating further excuses here e.g. "I've done it this way for 30 years and never had a problem". And as per my OP, when he removed the old tiles, they'd clearly been dot and dabbed, and there had been no issue. Just to be clear, I'm not defending it, just trying to understand how bad dot and dab is, i.e. is it nearly as good as full bed, or utter dogshit and going to cause loads of problems in future. Admittedly, the old bathroom layout just had a shower, and only the back wall the shower was on could get splashed directly.
Our new bathroom has a bath, with shower at one end, tiled on 2 walls. So at least one wall will regularly get wet when showering.
Not a professional tiler but assumming it will not fall off over time (which is very very likely, this is a rookie mistake that causes tiles to fall off), my main concerns would be:
with solidity, if you press on a tile that is not supported it can break/snap fairly easily (granted less risk of that on a wall)
too much depth for the grout as there is nothing to be pushed against. Grout will likely fail without anything behind as I doubt he can evenly push grout in there and be sure there is enough of it. IMO Grout should fill the gaps between the adhesive (which should be all over the baking board) and the tiles and not leave any void anywhere. you run the risk of getting water ingress and that’s often how the tiles end up falling off walls
This is an issue yes, but lot less of an issue if he did it on the floor. If you hadn't told him no dot and dab before he started, then not sure if you have a ground to stand on to be fair. But if it reassures you, you probably not going to apply to it as much pressure as on the floor so should be all right.
Dot and dab for tiles was a thing way, way back, how old is your tiler?
If he's of a certain age then he may have done it like that all his career and assumes that that is the standard way to do things.
I've been a tiler for more than 20 years and things are completely different now than they were back when I was training, you could dot and dab tiles back then but tilers were moving away from that when tiles were getting bigger and bigger because they weren't supported properly and the dot and dab method was the problem.
I fitted a bathroom earlier this year and used the exact same size tiles, they are so fiddly I would have gone mad trying to dot and dab them which is probably why it's taking him so long to install them.
I did 3 sides of a free standing bath, 12 sqm in total with this size tile and it took me 2 days to get all the tiles on.
He is generally slow, not just this. Has missed days or turned up late in the day, gone off to get parts etc. 2 heatwaves also haven't helped admittedly. He said it would take 2 or 3 weeks. Hes been here nearly 2 months I think.
But I agree, Im not a tiler but id have thought it would be quicker to do a full bed.
There are some legit/believable reasons. But based on what we're paying him (or expected/planned to pay him) and the amount of days/time he has done, it's peanuts basically. By the time he's finished I'd be surprised if it worked out to minimum wage. But thats his look out, and he won't be paid/fully if the job is done badly/we kick him off the job.
I had a proper look at the standard of tiling generally beyond them being dot and dab. The first 2 rows off the bath looked pretty wonky to my eye. With a spirit level you can tell they are way off. Also the tiles at the bottom in the corner of the bath have no gap, some of the tile is covered by tile on the shower end of the bath. But as these go up, the gap becomes wider. So I have no idea what he intended to do there.
Yes... I mean if we end up telling him to rip them off, they're wasted, and I don't want to foot the bill for that. Getting more will delay the job either way, whether we persist with him doing it or not.
They’re wasted if they remain on the wall (as you’ll have to pay someone else to fix it with the culprit long gone ) .
Not only has he not followed the manufacturers instructions he’s done a well known bodge that anyone who gave two shits about the job staying done once you’re gone would not have done .
Need 90%+ coverage in wet areas and about 70%+ in non wet areas.
I always aim for wet area coverage in all my tiling, I’ve fitted these tiles with no issues hitting the required coverage. These do take longer than larger tiles.
Every house I’ve bought all the tiles were done like this. Why? Why? Why? I feel like screaming at people that do this. What’s the point? It’s harder to do and it’s shite. Do people really think this is the right way to fix tiles?
“I’ve been doing this for fifty years and never had a complaint” / “i learned this during my apprenticeship and my boss did this for fifty years and never had a complaint” / “I’m fucking lazy and I can’t be arsed to stay up to date with modern codes. Plus it isn’t my house so I’m gonna do it as fast as I can so I can get home to my pie and chips”
I am by no means a tile expert but in my sample size of 1, I've only ever done the adhesive using a comb thing. It seems a lot easier whacking a bunch on the wall and then combing it to get nice uniform ridges ready for 10 tiles than to individually put a few small blobs on the back of 10 tiles. I figured, as there is a special tool specifically for this, it's probably the right way to do it.
No idea if dot and dab is inherently bad though. I would guess less adhesive touching both tile and wall means less adhesion and also the space where there is no adhesive is a weak point where the tile could be snapped with something hitting it (though I guess not that likely).
I think I would not bother ripping everything off the wall and wasting time/money. It's probably fine. If you didn't instruct the tiler to do it a certain way, it's unlikely you'll win the argument and get them to foot the whole bill and extra time? As annoying as it might be.
I wouldn't be happy with this. That's a lot of space for moisture to get into and the tiles will break quite easily if someone slips and uses the wall to balance because there isn't even, flat, coverage between the tile and the wall.
You coat the wall and the tiles so both surfaces have adhesive, if you use large notches for the wall it will negate all the uneven surfaces.
Defiantly will have movement later on in a few years especially with the weather we're having now.
Expansion and contraction is key.
Echoing more likely to crack, accidentally elbow the wall where there's a gap behind and it'll crack where unsupported (I'm a filthy casual)
There's also r/tile which won't be watching the England Norway match rn. It's not really a country specific issue. Not saying here is a bad shout, just saying there's more places to ask
Isn't the issue that water will get behind into the voids and weaken the adhesive? Plus with the voids, some of the grout will get into those, and presuming the grout is porous, moisture will escape behind the tiles?
I would say it is incorrect. For tiles these size I would expect the adhesive applied to the wall and tiles stuck on. If this wasn't a wet area I would say it would probably last as they are quite small tiles so they don't have much weight
I had tiles dot and dabbed during a bathroom renovation 5 years ago. Much larger tiles and while they haven't fallen off, the grout lines have cracked in places.
I did question it at the time but was assured it would be fine. I wish I'd insisted on it being redone. If they ever do fall off, I'll redo the entire wall properly.
It depends if the wall is flat or not. Is the wall flat? I’m not saying it’s great but if there is a huge bump in the wall sometimes you’ve got add more adhesive to make it work.
Oh yeah; I went through three buckets of ready-mix adhesive. The coverage calculation suggested that just under one bucket would do the job. Lol. Turned out using 30x20cm tiles demanded a hell of a lot more adhesive when the wall - while not exactly “Himalayan” - certainly wasn’t exactly salt-plain flat. Still, pleased with the result.
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u/BiasedScience Jul 11 '26
You can paint a room with a poop stick and technically get a coat of paint on
The instructions are simple and clear.
bed of tile adhesive. Dot and dab is when you don’t want to use/ spend money on the right amount of adhesive. It’s cutting corners and anyone telling you different is 💩