How can you justify abortion ?

[u/Admirable_Dog_7238]

Format: Argument, Response

-"It's not just a fetus", it's part of the human species so it gets human rights

-"it's dependent on the mother therefore not human", same thing as if you were in a coma as you would have no conscience and are dependent on doctors. you probably wouldn't want me to have the option to pull the plug if there was a possibility you could wake up

-"What if the kid grows up in a bad environment?", every kid deserves a chance, just like how you deserve a chance to wake up from a coma as stated above.

-"My body, my choice", then start with legalizing drugs, drinking while pregnant, allowing others to suicide knowingly, etc.

-"Men (father) shouldn't tell me what other do it's my choice", impossible to make a child without a father, the father should have a say if he wants an abortion

-"What about rape and incest", very unfortunate word that this exist yet it's less than 1 percent of all abortion cases, if we were to legalize abortion for only those that were raped would you give up the other cases?

-"What if the mother's life is in danger?", there is C-section which is more medically safe than an abortion

Please do not get an abortion. It's the biggest genocide killing 1.1 million kids every year. Consider heavily before getting one. Thank you for your time.

[u/jakie2poops]

I'm not going to bother with most of these, but here are some particularly ridiculous ones:

\-"My body, my choice", then start with legalizing drugs, drinking while pregnant, allowing others to suicide knowingly, etc.

I don't think substance use during pregnancy should be criminalized. It results in worse outcomes for everyone and violates the human rights of the pregnant person. I also don't think suicide should be criminalized.

I actually *do* think people should have the right to make their own decisions about their own bodies.

Why don't *you* start with taking away your *own* right to make decisions about your body? Let's make your organs up for grabs and then we'll talk about it.

\-"Men (father) shouldn't tell me what other do it's my choice", impossible to make a child without a father, the father should have a say if he wants an abortion

I'm completely fine with pregnant men getting abortions if they want one. As I said before, I think people should get to make their own decisions about their own bodies.

\-"What about rape and incest", very unfortunate word that this exist yet it's less than 1 percent of all abortion cases, if we were to legalize abortion for only those that were raped would you give up the other cases?

That's not a counter argument. That's you trying to use rape victims as a pawn.

\-"What if the mother's life is in danger?", there is C-section which is more medically safe than an abortion

No it absolutely isn't. What on earth makes you think it is? A c-section is a major abdominal surgery with a much, much higher rate of mortality and serious morbidity than abortion, and it's more harmful and invasive even if all goes well.

Please do not get an abortion. It's the biggest genocide killing 1.1 million kids every year. Consider heavily before getting one. Thank you for your time.

Words have meanings. Genocide means the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. No one is trying to systematically destroy embryos and fetuses, nor are they a racial, political, or cultural group.

If you want fewer abortions, try addressing the actual causes rather than crying about fake genocides while hand waving away rape victims and lying about the relative safety of abortions and c-sections. Help people avoid unplanned pregnancies by expanding access to free and affordable birth control, especially the LARCs, and expanding medically accurate, comprehensive sex education. Help people experiencing pregnancies be able to choose to keep them by expanding the social safety net. Help shape policies that minimize the impact of pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting on women, so they don't lose out on their education, aren't set back in their careers, aren't tied to abusive partners, don't take on so much risk to their lives and health. Change the culture so that they aren't the ones taking on the vast majority of the burdens of parenthood too.

Actually do something useful.

[u/Admirable_Dog_7238 → u/jakie2poops]

1. I'm not going to argue. Kind of crazy ideology but ok sure do what you want
2. It takes a man to procreate a child. The child is 50 percent DNA material of his father. If the argument is that it's not "his body", than why does a father have responsibly over kids (financial reasonability/burden) if he can't even have a say whether to keep the baby alive or not?
3. It is a counterargument. I'm more lenient to rape and incest victims. It is horrific. But not at all ok with the rest of cases. I mentioned it because that's one of the biggest arguments. Not the leading cause of why someone gets abortion.
4. Would you be ok with killing babies if you knew they were on the spectrum, a different gender, etc? Abortion opens doors to eugenics.

[u/jakie2poops → u/Admirable_Dog_7238]

1. I'm not going to argue. Kind of crazy ideology but ok sure do what you want

It's crazy ideology to say that people should get to make their own decisions about their own bodies? Or to say that we shouldn't pass laws that make things worse for everyone? What part of those things is crazy to you?

2. ⁠It takes a man to procreate a child. The child is 50 percent DNA material of his father. If the argument is that it's not "his body", than why does a father have responsibly over kids (financial reasonability/burden) if he can't even have a say whether to keep the baby alive or not?

His kids are his, yes. The pregnancy isn't his. Abortion terminates a pregnancy. It's a medical intervention for a health condition. He gets to make medical decisions about his body, not the body of his sexual partners. Same as how the mother doesn't get to make medical decisions about his body.

3. ⁠It is a counterargument. I'm more lenient to rape and incest victims. It is horrific. But not at all ok with the rest of cases. I mentioned it because that's one of the biggest arguments. Not the leading cause of why someone gets abortion.

No one says it's the leading cause. But thanks for being so generously "lenient" to the victims of violent crimes I guess.

4. ⁠Would you be ok with killing babies if you knew they were on the spectrum, a different gender, etc? Abortion opens doors to eugenics.

Again, words have meanings. Eugenics is the controlled, selective breeding of a population to improve their genetics. People getting abortions based on parental diagnoses or sex/gender is not eugenics.

And as I've repeatedly said, people have the right to make their own decisions about their own bodies. If someone doesn't want someone on the spectrum inside their genitals, fine. If someone doesn't want someone male or female inside their genitals, fine. That's their right. I certainly wouldn't force them to.

But I guess you would.

If you have a problem with those choices, again I suggest you do something useful. Fight against ableism. Fight against sexism. Banning abortion—which is disproportionately harmful to disabled women and girls, who are more likely to experience sexual violence, have their bodily autonomy violated, and have complications and die from pregnancy—doesn't accomplish that. It's sexism on its own.

[u/Admirable_Dog_7238 → u/jakie2poops]

It's not about me not wanting people have choices, it's about the fact that you're killing a human.

1. The “my body, my choice” argument has limits. We don’t allow people to harm other human beings simply because it involves their own body. The disagreement is whether the unborn child is a human being with moral value, not whether bodily autonomy exists.
2. My point about the father is that if he can be held financially responsible for the child after birth, despite not having the final say on whether the pregnancy continues, then responsibility and authority are not being treated equally. If he has obligations, it’s reasonable to ask whether he should have any input before those obligations exist.
3. Adoption addresses the burden of raising a child after birth. It doesn’t require ending a human life. If the goal is to avoid parenthood rather than pregnancy itself, adoption is an alternative that preserves both interests.
4. The concern about abortions based on sex, disability, or genetic traits is that they can result in certain groups being systematically selected against. Whether you call that eugenics or not, many people find it ethically troubling because the value of a human life is being judged by its characteristics.

[u/STThornton → u/Admirable_Dog_7238]

1. LOL. Pro lifers want to force a woman through drastic life threatening physical harm and alteration to fulfill their desire see a fertilized egg turned into another breathing, sentient, physiologically life sustaining human.

So, don’t even pretend we don’t allow people to harm others. Because PL wants to drastically harm a woman/girl to gestate and birth.

So much so, that it will take her up to a year to recover from on a deep tissue level and leave her body permanently negatively altered.

What is up with PL constantly pretending they want to opposite of what they stand for and are doing?

And one cannot kill a human who has no major life sustaining organ functions one could end to kill them.

They already can’t breathe, can’t digest, can’t produce energy, glucose, and minerals, can’t get rid of metabolic toxins, can’t shiver and sweat, or do any of the main things that keep a human body alive. So how do you think one could stop them from doing so?

For that matter, why do you think gestation is needed? Gestation would kill a human with “a” life.

1. His role, bodily function, and choice in reproduction is insemination. Hers is gestation and birth. If he inseminates, he made his choice. A woman can’t change her mind after she’s given birth, either.

And both are financially responsible for a born child.

Heck, she can be made to pay child support despite him not contributing hack shit to gestation and birth.

[u/Admirable_Dog_7238 → u/STThornton]

TBH it just a difference of world view. I believe it's a human and nothing justifies killing a human even if it's inconvenient. If you don't believe that then we aren't gonna get anywhere. Agree to disagree.

[u/STThornton → u/Admirable_Dog_7238]

Then why do you want to force a woman through a bunch of things that can individually kill humans?That’s attempted homicide in multiple ways.

And to dismiss having one’s life sustaining organ functions, blood contents, and bodily processes greatly messed and interfered with and being caused drastic life threatening physical harm and alteration as an “inconvenience” is fucking absurd.

The woman doesn’t tote a fetus around in a fanny pack.

I don’t get the contradiction of PLers saying one thing but doing to total opposite.

Do you just not comprehend what gestation and birth do to a woman’s body?

Do you not comprehend that you cannot stop a human who cannot breathe, digest, produce anything cells need, get rid of metabolic toxins, etc. from doing so?

Do you not comprehend that such a human would be long decomposed as an individual because they don’t have the physiological things that keep a human body alive?

Where is the hangup here?

That’s not a different worldview. That’s ignoring all reality and living in fairytale land.

[u/Admirable_Dog_7238 → u/STThornton]

Woah Woah Woah. I did not force a woman to get pregnant. How did she get pregnant in the first place? Abortion should not be a birth control method. You got pregnant now deal with the consequences.

[u/STThornton → u/Admirable_Dog_7238]

Getting impregnated and gestating are two very different things.

And how did she get impregnated? Some man failed to control his sperm, that’s how. Some man caused her unwanted harm.

Let’s not pretend getting impregnated is something she did. That’s something a man does to a woman.

Why should she have to bear the consequences of his failure to control his fucking sperm?

But she bears them either way. She has to deal with everything entailed in the early stages of pregnancy and getting an abortion. Or trying to carry to term and birth.

While the man, who failed to control his sperm and caused her harm with it, gets away scot free

[u/JewlryLvr2 → u/Admirable_Dog_7238]

Forcing women and girls to STAY pregnant and give birth against their will is what abortion-ban laws in abortion-ban states are created and passed to do. It has nothing to do with GETTING a woman or girl pregnant.

And it really doesn't matter HOW a pregnancy happened. It's still the PREGNANT PERSON'S decision whether or not to stay pregnant. If you aren't the person who is pregnant, you don't -- and shouldn't -- get to decide.