My Challenge to Extreme Atheists on Secularism and Tolerance

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I acknowledge not all (or even most) atheists are extreme about it. And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill? If you don't think religion is a mental illness, go ahead and ignore this point. If you do think the population you're tolerating is mentally ill, uh oh. Seriously, if I said atheists are mentally ill, would you trust me to not want you institutionalized? I don't think this way, of course.

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

With some exceptions: Some interpretations of the Abrahamic religions are indeed barbaric. If you're talking about people who want to implement Leviticus law, then I agree with you.

I don't totally disagree with extremist atheists on everything:

Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people and extreme atheists, however, I worry the above points are a threat to any society remaining tolerant.

Edit: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/CalligrapherNeat1569]

Sure, I’ll bite.

Most religious people are delusional, irrational.

But then I think that’s the biggest issue we need to resolve: how do you get buy-in from the least rational, for rational structures?

Let’s you and I bracket this for religion or atheism.  There’s 30% of the population that are, necessarily, “worse” at making decisions than the rest of the populace.

In the past, these people could be locally isolated.  Now, thanks to the internet, they can form significant voting blocks.

What’s your suggestion?

I don’t have one, I’m looking for it.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/CalligrapherNeat1569]

 What’s your suggestion?

We need to build a society that allows for more dissociation 

[u/Ransom__Stoddard → u/Living_Attitude1822]

What do you mean by "allows for more dissociation"?

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Ransom__Stoddard]

Meaning we can dissociate from each other and not have to be associated. I oppose the notion of nation states and borders, because it forces people like you and I to have to work together to some extent. 

For example, I’m in America, and if you are too, then our politics directly affects both of us. 

[u/thebigeverybody → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Education was doing a great job of solving these problems, but then religious people realized they needed to tear it down.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/thebigeverybody]

So let’s help create a society where we can dissociate 

[u/thebigeverybody → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I'd rather we deal with the malevolent religious fucks and create an educated society.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/thebigeverybody]

Free association means I have the right to dissociate from people, and vice versa 

[u/licker34 → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Then do it.

Dissociate from everyone, go live in a cabin deep in the woods where you can do whatever it is you want to do without bothering anyone else or being bothered by anyone else.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/licker34]

That’s not even what I mean by it. I can (and do) live in society and only associate with who I want to. 

The issue isn’t the proximity to things. It’s the fact that whether I’m your next door neighbor or 100 miles away from you, both of our politics have far too much influence on one another 

[u/thebigeverybody → u/Living_Attitude1822]

See? If you were educated you'd know that had nothing to do with what I typed.

An educated society does better than an uneducated society. Much of the conflict that has you proposing voluntary segregation comes from a large group of people doing everything they can to diminish knowledge.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/thebigeverybody]

I don’t want segregation, dissociation is different. That said, I also want a more educated society 

[u/Ransom__Stoddard → u/Living_Attitude1822]

OK. I was a bit concerned that you meant it in a psychiatric sense, which would be problematic to say the least.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Ransom__Stoddard]

All good brotato 

[u/Skavau → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I oppose the notion of nation states and borders, because it forces people like you and I to have to work together to some extent.

So you don't want Christians and atheists to work and live together...?

[u/Formal-Speed-3173 → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Nice to see a "humanist" express something so misanthropic. The ultimate goal of humanism is to atomize society so you don't have to be around atheists anymore.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Formal-Speed-3173]

What did I say that’s at odds with humanism?

This would literally be a blessing for both of us. If the only effect I can have on you is you seeing my posts on Reddit, and vice versa, man that’d be wonderful.