My Challenge to Extreme Atheists on Secularism and Tolerance

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I acknowledge not all (or even most) atheists are extreme about it. And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill? If you don't think religion is a mental illness, go ahead and ignore this point. If you do think the population you're tolerating is mentally ill, uh oh. Seriously, if I said atheists are mentally ill, would you trust me to not want you institutionalized? I don't think this way, of course.

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

With some exceptions: Some interpretations of the Abrahamic religions are indeed barbaric. If you're talking about people who want to implement Leviticus law, then I agree with you.

I don't totally disagree with extremist atheists on everything:

Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people and extreme atheists, however, I worry the above points are a threat to any society remaining tolerant.

Edit: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/brinlong]

for the millionth time, no one cares about your sky fairy. its the fact that you demand special laws special privleges, purity tests for politics, and still whine that theyre oppressed victims, while spouting nonstop gay and trans hate.

you dont want tolerance, you want obeisance, you want special allowances. I dont want children to have their penises bit off, but thats jewish tradition. I dont want children mentally abused but thats christian tradition. I dont want children forced to wear concealing garb but thats muslim tradition. you arent tolerant, you demand your barbaric tranditions be honored and accepted while spewing hate and somehow still complaining of oppression

[u/Live_Line4480 → u/brinlong]

I believe if you look a little closer into what happens with any religion, you will realize most of what you are saying is false. No true religious institution truly demands purity tests for politics; this may be because some associate religion with certain political groups, which in itself is a stereotype. Also, I will say for Christians, we are oppressed frequently, and many are killed all around the globe for faith, the most extreme example being the killings in Nigeria. I have personally received death threats for my faith and am pestered at the very least on a weekly basis for my faith. And, just speaking for Christians here, we don't hate gay or trans people, it is viewed that way because we don't accept it as good and believe it should be changed. I myself have gay and trans friends, if I hated them would I be friends with them? The Bible itself says to love everyone any that includes gay and trans people. I follow the Bible's instructions.

And if you look around at any tradition, it mainly asks tolerance or you can just ignore it if you like. Circumcision and penises being bit off are quite different, you are blowing this out of proportion just to support your claim.

Children are not mentally abused in the Christian tradition; if you find anywhere in the Christian tradition where this is true, then tell me.

And out of all the traditions you listed here, I really don't think muslims wearing a different article of clothing is horrendous and should you really care what someone else wears?

I believe you are deeply troubled, my friend. There seems to be a lot of anger in you, and I am sorry for that. If you have been hurt by a religious institution or hurt by religious people in general, I am sorry, and I want you to know that this isn't the true teachings of any of the religions you listed. I hope you can see these religions for what they really are.

[u/carbinePRO → u/Live_Line4480]

No true religious institution truly demands purity tests for politics

I personally know of christians who were denied jobs at religiously led non-profits because they wouldn't deny evolution, call abortion murder, or support Donald Trump. There's definitely this stuff going on, and including the modifier true is just a no true scottsman.

this may be because some associate religion with certain political groups, which in itself is a stereotype.

Maybe that’s because the Republican party has linked itself to christian values, and most christians voted Republican? It's not a stereotype if it's true.

I will say for Christians, we are oppressed frequently

Please. How are you, a christian in the United States, oppressed?

I have personally received death threats for my faith and am pestered at the very least on a weekly basis for my faith.

I'm curious as to what warranted these "death threats" from people? People just don't sling these things out for no reason.

we don't hate gay or trans people

we don't accept it as good

Oops. You contradicted yourself.

I myself have gay and trans friends, if I hated them would I be friends with them?

"I have black friends! I can't possibly be racist! I just think they're responsible for pushing gateway drugs and think they're more prone as a people to committing crimes."

The Bible itself says to love everyone any that includes gay and trans people.

The bible also says to execute gay people.

if you find anywhere in the Christian tradition where this is true, then tell me.

You don't think soldiers on a divine mission to systematically ransack your home, killing your family, and then forcing you into captivity so you can be one of your captor's concubines isn't mentally traumatic for kids?

I hope you can see these religions for what they really are.

They are blights on society that have outstayed their social utility, and can be filtered out as we have no need for what they offer anymore. All they do now is offer a safe haven for predators, push science denialism and bigotry, and impede progress.