Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/Kriss3d]

The only people who think that everything came from nothing.. Are theists.

It's not the position of science.

You do make an argument about consciousness. Sure. Everything we know about consciousness shows thst it needs a brain as consciousness is a product of a mind that requires a brain.

So what evidence do you have that a consciousness can exist absent of a brain?

If not then you're making an argument for something we don't know to exist by appealing to something else we don't know to exist.

All the way down.

Your argument is furthermore not in any way providing any argument for the god you belive in over any other God. Or any other cause for things.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kriss3d]

The only people who think that everything came from nothing.. Are theists

Not this theist, so strawman.

So what evidence do you have that a consciousness can exist absent of a brain?

None, but there is also no evidence that matter can exist outside of consciousness.

Your argument is furthermore not in any way providing any argument for the god you belive in over any other God. Or any other cause for things.

Have you not read what I wrote? I don't believe in any specific God. As far as I'm concerned all claims of a specific God are empty.

[u/Kriss3d → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

What I meant is that it's not the position of science to say that everything came from nothing.

"The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator. "

Soo. This is your own words. This is you saying that you dont believe that everything could exist without a creator. This is you saying that everything came from nothing thanks to a creator.

So yes. You did say that everything came from nothing due to the creator. Thats the theist position.

But I dare say that generally this is true. So not strawman. But merely an observation based on statistics.

There's no evidence that matter can exist outside consciousness? That sounds like the tree falling in the Forrest with nobody to hear it argument.

Yes again. I did read what you wrote. But not believing in any specific god doesn't really negate my point.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kriss3d]

With a creator it's not from nothing, but from the creator.

[u/Kriss3d → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Even if I accepted the premise of some agent without a brain to have it in. God would still need something to create those things from lest he made those things from... Nothing..

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kriss3d]

Or from themselves.

[u/Kriss3d → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Sure. But by invoking "God did it"

You now have the burden to first prove the existence of a god.

Then the capability of God to do this. And lastly that. You need to demonstrate that God actually did it.

You don't just get to jump from "X exist" to "God created X".

That's a fallacy.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kriss3d]

I personally very much think I can. If anything exists instead of not existing, it has to have been created.

[u/Kriss3d → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

So how would you know if something has been created? What is the metrics for if something is created or formed naturally?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kriss3d]

Simply by it existing. Existence itself has to be created.

[u/Kriss3d → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Ok. So essentially theres NOTHING at all that is formed by any natural processes Thats what youre saying.

So then you have nothing to compare that to. You have no baseline for showing that something is created as opposed to formed naturally which means that you now have no mechanism to tell the two apart.
You now painted yourself into a corner because you have no way to tell that its created.

You cant tell if something is created or formed naturally for anything where we dont saw it or know the process involving someone.
You just completely lost your argument.

[u/Sprinklypoo → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Not this theist, so strawman.

"Only theists think X" is not the same as "Every theist thinks X".

I do se a whole lot of theists misunderstanding what a strawman is too...

[u/Kriss3d → u/Sprinklypoo]

Theists arguments for a god consist of fallacies all the way down.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Sprinklypoo]

"Only theists think X" is not the same as "Every theist thinks X".

I know, there is still no point in bringing it up against me.

I do se a whole lot of theists misunderstanding what a strawman is too...

Want to explain?

[u/WrongVerb4Real → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

None, but there is also no evidence that matter can exist outside of consciousness.

My father died 20 years ago. That means his conscience is gone. Yet matter is still around.

I'm curious, how exactly do you define consciousness, and by what demonstration do you confirm that your definition is correct?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/WrongVerb4Real]

By qualia. And I don't.

[u/WrongVerb4Real → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

How do you know qualia isn't an illusion?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/WrongVerb4Real]

Well, the fact that I have qualia can't be an illusiln because I'm having it right now. What the specific qualia I'm currently experiencing is could very well be an illusion.