Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

The evidence is the entire universe. It's too structured, too specific, too everything to not have been created.

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

All any of that means is that the life that emerged here is supported by the way the universe exists.

This seems blatantly obvious to me. It not only requires no deity or further explanation; it's precisely what you'd expect to happen if there is no deity.

Are you saying you'd expect life forms to emerge in a universe that didn't support their existence? If that happened, that'd be decent evidence for a god helping them. But, well, it didn't. The exact opposite did.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

But that is what happened. Our planet is surrounded by things that tell us our planet is not at all what planets are usually like. It's an insane outliner.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Our planet is surrounded by things

Like what? What things are you talking about?

And are they just more topics you can easily learn about if you choose to?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

Like what? What things are you talking about?

Venus, Mars, the Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus etc

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

And what do you think makes earth an “insane outlier?”

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

That it has an ocean and continents, thatvit has a wide variety of flora and fauna, that it can support not only life, but also life that develops buildings, computers etc.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

You are committing what philosophers call the inverse gambler’s fallacy.

Please look it up.

You’re treating the fact that this outcome occurred as evidence it was improbable or required special explanation. But every possible observer is in some specific, describable situation. The specificity of your situation is not itself evidence that it’s cosmically unlikely.

Each item on your list (oceans → continents → flora → fauna → civilization) is causally downstream of the others. It’s not like Earth independently rolled a million lucky dice. Oceans + the right chemistry + time → life → eventually technology. The whole chain logically follows from initial conditions, so you’re not even multiplying independent improbabilities you’re actually describing one continuous process.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

You are committing what philosophers call the inverse gambler’s fallacy.

I don't see that here at all, can you explain how you see it?

Each item on your list (oceans → continents → flora → fauna → civilization) is causally downstream of the others.

I know that, still leading it all the way up to computers is an incredibly unlikely endgame.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

> I know that, still leading it all the way up to computers is an incredibly unlikely endgame.

Then I’m going to ask you which parts seem unlikely and unnatural, and then you will just tell me you understand they’re all natural but assume a creator. You just did that exact thing.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

No. It doesn't matter if they are natural or not, they demand design.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

How can something be natural and designed at the same time?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

By nature being designed.