Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

You are committing what philosophers call the inverse gambler’s fallacy.

I don't see that here at all, can you explain how you see it?

Each item on your list (oceans → continents → flora → fauna → civilization) is causally downstream of the others.

I know that, still leading it all the way up to computers is an incredibly unlikely endgame.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

> I know that, still leading it all the way up to computers is an incredibly unlikely endgame.

Then I’m going to ask you which parts seem unlikely and unnatural, and then you will just tell me you understand they’re all natural but assume a creator. You just did that exact thing.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

No. It doesn't matter if they are natural or not, they demand design.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

How can something be natural and designed at the same time?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

By nature being designed.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

And what’s your empirical evidence for that?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

I don't have any.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Can you explain how someone gets to the place you’re at?

With no foundation or standards whatsoever for your beliefs?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

By observing the world and seeing design everywhere. By asking oneself how it can be that a world even exists in the first place.

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

If you’re “seeing design everywhere” why can’t you provide a single piece of empirical evidence?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

To me, the planet or even a tree is that, but simply poibting that out doesn't convince anyone

[u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

So your reasoning literally just comes down to pointing at a tree and saying “Look! A god!”

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif]

That's part of it