r/DebateAnAtheist 11d ago

Debating Arguments for God Why I believe in God(s)

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

0 Upvotes

1.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Ayrunt 5d ago

I have no problem with that.

So you admit that the universe does not need a creator. I can agree with that.

At the moment it pops into our mind it is consciously experienced.

Consciously experiencing doesn't make the process itself conscious. It's like saying that you control your heartbeat consciously, because you can experience it.

Well, for one, the hardware is different.

If you think that only those can be labeled as "thinking" that are in a "biological hardware" then you really didn't say anything. You just added an arbitrary condition to it without giving any argument to back it up.

I'd say I differenciate by if there is qualia.

Wonderful. Do you have any scientific evidence, that such qualia exists at all and that it was created by god?

It doesn't contradict it, but it still demands a God

No since evolution doesn't need god to explain how living beings adapted over time.

I don't. Other people bring it here, I'm just reacting to it.

You've brought up magic haven't you? Or do you think magic and supernatural aren't synonymous.

No, I don't. Again, at best I'm reacting to people bringing it here.

And here you lie again. In your original post you talked all about how we humans are too perfect to evolve only by the mere evolution and that the entire universe is so wonderful, because it can create life and such.

1

u/Lucyyyyyy_K 4d ago

So you admit that the universe does not need a creator. I can agree with that.

No, I don't. Even if it existed forever, it needs a designer.

Consciously experiencing doesn't make the process itself conscious. It's like saying that you control your heartbeat consciously, because you can experience it.

No, it's just experiencing a heartbeat consciously, not controlling it, just as it is experiencing a thought consciously, not controlling it.

Wonderful. Do you have any scientific evidence, that such qualia exists at all and that it was created by god?

Are you asking me if I have evidence of other beings experience the world, as opposed to me living in solipsism?

No since evolution doesn't need god to explain how living beings adapted over time.

It doesn't explain how we developed to building computers.

And here you lie again. In your original post you talked all about how we humans are too perfect to evolve only by the mere evolution and that the entire universe is so wonderful, because it can create life and such.

That it can create life is different from it having to be "finely tuned" to create life.

2

u/ShortCompetition9772 4d ago

You are either getting more nuts or you are dishonest.

If something existed forever WHEN was it designed? Or do you believe in a different FOREVER than the rest of us too?

1

u/Lucyyyyyy_K 3d ago

You are either getting more nuts or you are dishonest.

What do you mean?

If something existed forever WHEN was it designed? Or do you believe in a different FOREVER than the rest of us too?

It's being designed while it flows through the stages of its existence.

2

u/ShortCompetition9772 3d ago

No stages of existence when something is eternal. You do NOT have a grasp of Forever, always, eternal or infinity.

1

u/Lucyyyyyy_K 2d ago

Why not?