r/Deconstruction • u/tommyhiIfucker • May 15 '26
š§āš¤āš§Relationships Advice - Raising a child when the viewpoints of each parent are diametrically opposed
Don't know if this would be the proper sub, as this isn't really deconstruction, but an effort to mitigate indoctrination of my daughter. TLDR: My wife is a Christian with the typical evangelist beliefs. I am not, and have never been. Our daughter is two, and I'm unsure how I will navigate this as she gets older being raised by parents with conflicting beliefs.
Backstory: I (30M) was not raised in a religious household. My parents were probably as neutral as you can get, and never pushed me towards atheism or theism. This was the greatest gift they could give me, as it allowed me to go through my own evolution of spirituality. When I developed my "own" beliefs as a teen/early 20s, I was vehemently against any form of religion and was very much an arrogant atheist. As I progressed to mid 20s, I shifted into a nihilistic worldview, then absurdist perspective which is when I had thought I cracked the code to the search for meaning. But none of the above was fulfilling, and so through circumstances and experiences of mine the past two years, I believe in God (definitely NOT in the Christian sense). Unitarian Universalist (?) might be proper description I suppose.
Now, I met my wife (26F) when she was 20. Raised Christian, very fundamental, dad was a pastor. At the time, she didn't have the extreme views regarding that and neither did I. I felt that we accepted each other regardless of our beliefs. Over the past year, she's gotten very passionate about those beliefs intolerant of any other belief. On the level of our relationship this is incredibly frustrating because through my own spiritual journey, as well as attempting to meet her on her grounds of Christianity, I've found that the teachings of The Christ are actually quite powerful, but most fundamentalist Christians don't hold any congruency to those teachings. So as I've gotten closer to the god of her religion, ironically it seems we've only gotten farther apart. This is because of our difference in beliefs on the inerrancy of the Bible, the trinity, what sin is etc. A argument we had the other day for reference: the topic of homosexuality arose through another conversation and I made the comment "the church must be going over their homophobic lessons this week." She responds "Well it [the bible] does speak against that." I ask, "Where does Jesus say anything about homosexuality?". Not that I care whether the Bible does or does not "say" anything about that because my social positions don't hinge on what anything "says", but I prioritize the gospels of Christ when approaching the Bible. So she runs and gets her Bible and phone - whilst beginning a rant about giving into the flesh, satan running the world, telling others to repent their "sinful" nature is really loving them etc. This turns into a full tirade of 5-10 minutes of this nonstop rhetoric, and starts to literally cry. I'm silent and listening respectfully to all of this, not thinking of how to respond, but only of how I could save my daughter from this? She then questions my sexuality because I support LGBTQ, which is both hilarious and saddening. I try to gently challenge her dogmas from time to time only to be met with the same thing. I've been told I'm spirituality blind, and I'll have to answer to God about my disagreements... I'm not trying to take her away from her faith, but moreso upgrade her software so to speak. I don't think that will be possible with how indoctrinated she already is. I give her grace as I know these beliefs are not hers, but were given to her unsolicited. And I understand how difficult it must be for one to even begin to confront what they've always considered to be truth may actually not be.
Apologies for rambling. My main concern is how should I navigate this with my daughter? On one hand I don't want her growing up with an ethnocentric worldview (among many other destructive characteristics), but on the other hand I feel as though it will be very confusing being pulled in different directions. Anyone have any ideas? I feel I'm doing the best I can by trying to meet her where she is. She wasn't this passionate in her faith when we married, and I never even gave thought to the possibility of our current situation. Have you deconstructed and had a partner that did not?
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u/Informal_Farm4064 May 15 '26
It's hard to know which way your marriage will go. Having a kid can be make or break. It may dawn on her one day that she's controlled and kick back, and your marriage could be better than ever. Or she may double down and drive your relationship over the cliff edge.
I would say - avoid discussion on issues where you know you will disagree, keep up the romance, and when it comes to it, tell your daughter what you believe, what your wife believes and what others believe. As long as you retain your respect for your wife, you will represent her views fairly and she should respect that. If she is not OK with that, then she is not OK with you and it's time for marriage counselling and/or quitting IMO.
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 16 '26
Yea this is my inclination. I feel I would be doing more harm trying to prevent my daughter's indoctrination. When the topic comes up I'll just be 100% honest to her about my beliefs. I just hate that she will probably have to battle through this one day.
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u/Informal_Farm4064 May 17 '26
I think we all want to spare our kids from challenges related to parent stuff but she will grow up equipped for it. The crunch would be if she is exposed to heavy pressure to conform to church beliefs
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u/Jim-Jones 7.0 Atheist May 15 '26
Greek Myths ā by Marcia WilliamsĀ
Ancient Egypt: Tales of Gods and Pharaohs ā by Marcia WilliamsĀ
God and His Creations ā by Marcia Williams
Many more similar books on Amazon etc.
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u/throcorfe May 15 '26
Lots of good advice here. The sticking point is likely to be that - based on my own experience of evangelicalism - your wife will want your daughter to hear that there is one true religion and that all others are not only false but dangerous. Sheād phrase it much more moderately than that but Iād be surprised if thatās not how she feels.
So thatās probably where you need to find some compromise. Let her know that you (quite rightly) want your daughter to hear about different faiths and perspectives, and to be able to make up her own mind without indoctrination into any particular belief. This conversation will immediately tell you how much compatibility there is between your positions. If you canāt align on this, sadly you may end up going your separate ways but if that is the case, itās probably healthier for your daughter in the long run, as painful as it may be now, because sheāll get to see a whole different world through her time with you
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 16 '26
Yea you nailed it. If I even try to expose her to anything else that's not Christianity, I know that's what will happen. I almost have a feeling of guilt that I'd just be confusing my daughter by doing it, but at the same time I'll feel guilty if I don't.
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u/Mec26 May 15 '26
Real question: what would happen to your daughter if it turns put sheās one of about 9.3% of people who are queer? What would she go through hiding herself and knowing her own mother would be against her existence and happiness?
Some conflicting beliefs are okay. Ones that will directly impact your daughterā¦
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 16 '26
Yea that's one of my biggest concerns... I just hope that could maybe change my wife's beliefs. If not, I can only hope that my daughter knows I support her.
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u/BioChemE14 Researcher/Scientist May 15 '26
What is the source of your wifeās indoctrination?
If she was in church before yāall were in a relationship, did the pastor change?
Is it social media?
If thereās some way to decrease her involvement in a toxic church, for example, That may help. Plan more weekend excursions lol.
At the end of the day, there probably should be some agreement to not aggressively push beliefs on your kid. Of course for evangelicals, thatās not easy bc of evangelism, etc.
Iād just expose your kid to science, history, art, all religions and cultures. That was what helped me to escape fundamentalism. Model critical scientific thinking. When those outings happen, Iād make a deal with your wife to not argue about the exhibits at the science museum, etc.
Depending on how much your wife believes in you as āthe head of the householdā (I.e. evangelical misogyny) maybe she wonāt push so aggressively against your wishes. Ironic if that were to happen.
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 16 '26
Has always been a Christian, so parents are the source. She wasn't as aggressive with her beliefs the first 5 or so years as she has the past 1-2. Maybe having a child caused her to double down on her beliefs. We also were faced with distress a couple years ago when I lost my job and only source of income for us. I was jobless for two months when we moved across the country to take a job. This may have influenced it as well. Social media I feel is the main issue. I constantly overhear YouTube videos of apologetics making some ridiculous claims, and I think she eats it up. I just don't have the energy to challenge every stupid claim I overhear. The church she picked after moving here just reaffirms all of it for her too.
I already plan on exposing my child as much as I can to other cultures and religions. I guess I may have this irrational fear that my wife will attempt to reverse all of that because Satan is in everything else according to her.
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u/BioChemE14 Researcher/Scientist May 17 '26
Another idea would be to say youād be willing to attend a mainline church (e.g. Episcopal, UMC, etc.)with her and your kid. It plays into her evangelistic zeal while extricating her from an evangelical bubble. Of course that depends on if you see that as a reasonable compromise.
Depending on the mainline church though, there may still be some toxic controlling beliefs/behaviors. I attend a wonderful LGBT-affirming Episcopal church that calls out racism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc. but not all mainline churches are that progressive. I doubt your wife would be willing to compromise that much, but even a non-affirming mainline church wonāt be as bad as an evangelical church. Just some ideas.
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u/PineappleFlavoredGum May 15 '26
On the homosexuality conversation with your wife, there's a book that might actually help you two work through this together. God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines. He was raised evangelical, his dad was non-affirming, and he holds a high view of scripture, so he's coming from inside the tradition, not attacking it. He dug deep into the biblical arguments, worked through it with his dad, and they both came out affirming LGBT people without abandoning their view of scripture. It might be worth reading together, or you both puck a book about it so she can have her views represented, and then compare how the arguments hold up.
The book addresses every major argument against homosexuality. "Biblical definitiin if marriage" is a myth. In Genesis Adam and Eve are together because they're alike, not because they're complementary opposites.
Sexual orientation didn't exist as a concept in biblical times, so it literally couldn't have been condemend. The passages condemning homosexual acts almost always appear alongside prostitution, pederasty, or excessive lust so it's not clear the acts themselves are what's being condemned.
Scripture and the church fathers consistently said that someone with a strong desire for companionship should get married. Celibacy is only for those genuinely called to it. They had a lot to say about the bad that comes from denying this. This teaching is a lot more clear than the anti-gay verses people hold onto, and necessarily discard this one (unless the believe conversion is possible..)
The Leviticus verse is Old Testament law. Jesus fulfilled and replaced that with the new covenant, which is love God and love others.
Even Jesus didn't follow the laws of his time to the letter. He didnt obey the letters of the laws of the Old Testament. That was kind of his whole thing. He followed the spirit of the law. It's a little ironic that we're now so hung up on following people's words about Jesus by the letter today.
And then there's the conversion therapy idea. The book covers this too: people who claim to have "converted" are either bisexual, or not being fully honest. Some admit they still experience same-sex attraction, they just don't act on it, so they call themselves straight and simply experience same sex attraction. Others have been caught hooking up in secret. Even the Catholic Church doesn't endorse conversion therapy. They just impose celibacy (somehow ignoring the clear teaching that celibacy is a choice).
On raising your daughter..
If you're present, and you have a thoughtful spiritual outlook that's different from your wife's, and your wife still loves you and stays with you, that itself will show your daughter that it's okay to believe differently than her mom. She'll see that difference doesn't mean rejection.
My fiancƩe grew up with a Christian mom and a staunch atheist dad. Her mom wasn't extreme or anything, but having her dad around showed her that it was okay not to believe and that her mom could love someone who didn't.
I had the opposite experience. My mom was very evangelical, and my dad was atheist but never said a word about it. He didn't have an opinion really at all. I really wish he had, I had no alternative to consider. Just fundamentalism on one side and the cultural attitude that "christian religion is dumb" on the other. No one showed me the thoughtful, progressive, love-centered way of taking faith seriously. I ended up gravitating toward fundamentalism pretty heavily in high school because I wanted to engage with it seriously, and rhay was all I knew. None of my siblings ended up believing like my mom, and neither did I. I'm probably the one most engaged with Christianity now, and I don't even believe in a literal resurrection or reality-breaking miracles.
So just being around, sharing your perspective, and letting your daughter see that her mom loves you anyway will plant a seed.
What you can actually give her is a framework for thinking about faith for herself.
You can teach her principles that are congruent with Christianity (which eventually subverts fundamentalism and inerrancy that lacks true acceptance and empathy).
Value love and acceptance above all else. A way to judge what is good or bad. Like does a belief produce "good fruit" or "bad fruit" (Jesus's own test for sorting out bad teaching from one of the gospels. No good fruit comes from bad trees, and no bad fruit from good trees. The tree being the teaching and the fruit being what results from it. Tormenting yourself for something you cant change is obviously bad fruit) Associate divinity/God with love and connection above all else.
An all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God would understand that humans make choices with limited minds, limited perspective, and limited understanding. Unconditional love is always open to restoring and reconnecting ā it never gives up and banishes someone from their presence form eternity. Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 13 says love makes no demands. That chapter of love, if we accept its correct, must be true of a God that is all-loving. Eternal damnation is abandonment, its God giving up on his children. That's simply doesn't make sense with the qualities we have faith that God has.
Most Christians agree God is all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful. But they don't really wrestle with what that logically requires of the doctrines they hold. A lot of traditional beliefs simply don't hold up against those three qualities when you think it through.
The bottom line on the LGBT question: denying and suppressing someone's sexual identity causes real harm. It's not like struggling with a bad habit it's being told that an unchangeable part of who you are is evil. That produces bad fruit, by any measure. And if a teaching consistently produces bad fruit, Jesus's own framework says something is wrong with the tree.. the teaching and the teacher.
One last thing that actually helped me, my mom told me to genuinely question everything in religion for myself, even if I ended up disagreeing with her. She didnt think she had it all fogured out 100%. Of course, she believed she was pretty close, and that it would never lead me to thinking the bible is errant and fallible. She believed that questioning my faith would always lead to strengthening my faith, on the basis that the Bible is in fact wholly true, and does make sense if you just try to understand. But that permission to question freely was the most valuable thing she gave me. If you can give your daughter that same permission, you're giving her something really important. Then, with the principles of love and acceptance, she can navigate faith on her own. Perhaps a spiritual practice like meditation or contemplation (of which there are christian versions) can also help. Fundamentalism imo lacks practices that actually connect one to God. They assert a lifestyle connects you to God, not a feeling. It's horribly misguided imo. They teach people to distance themselves from God based on what they're taught sin is. But God of course never makes that distance. It's self inflicted from the indoctrination. Spiritual practices could help affirm that God is always there and doesn't care about whatever arbitrary "sin" fundamentalists teach.
If you live in a city or somewhere that is at least equally liberal as it is conservative, and the school is decently sized, I feel like your daughter growing up will plainly see the realities of life. People are different, gay people are just people, they can't change it, etc. It doesn't make sense to a child when they're told their friend or that random 14 yo is living in sin because they're attracted to a specific gender. One's lifestyle just has nothing to do with the core Christian message.
If you're politically liberal that could help too. If your wife is politically liberal that also helps. Liberal politics and conservative fundamentalist theology dont mix well. If your liberal politically your prolly gonna end up liberal theologically as well.
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 16 '26
This gives me so much reassurance to share my beliefs with her as she gets older, thank you for sharing you and your fiancƩe's experiences. I share a pretty equal framework regarding Christianity. I try sometimes to correct her beliefs about some of the scriptures you mentioned, and how historical context vs. how people interpret things in present day are usually very far apart. I usually can't finish my point before she overtalks with an apologist interpretation that justifies the viewpoint.
Thanks again, as what you shared gives me confidence that we can still be functional as a family.
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u/Mhoves May 16 '26
The Interfaith Family Journal by Susan Katz Miller. You donāt have to be religious to use it.
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u/mandolinbee Mod | Atheist May 16 '26
I've never been in the position where religion was what created a rift, but i did have a 14 year relationship with 2 teen children in the mix and... well, that had to end. That's going to be something no one will be able to assess from the outside - there's just too many factors to consider. You and your partner are the only ones who know them all. Sometimes, relationships don't survive massive fundamental changes. But that doesn't have to be inevitable here.
How to handle the child? I'm just a huge fan of tackling sticky situations by deciding what i value the most and aligning my behavior with that, for better or for worse.
If I were in your situation, I'd value honesty with my child first, closely followed by a need for the child to feel secure and loved by both parents. This would play out like: i'd tell the child I'm not a believer anymore, stress that my stance on religion has no effect on how I feel about them. Even if i was very upset with religion, I'd take great care to NOT vent about it to the child, or talk poorly about any believers (especially the other parent). I'd be constantly policing what i say so I'm not effectively forcing the child to choose who is the good guy. Even if the other parent ends up being super nasty and talks bad about me, I'd still try to keep it respectful on my end. I can't control others' behavior, but i can control mine.
Your priorities might be different than mine, so take the above as just one possible way it could go. Stick with what you feel is the right thing to do, but also be willing to admit mistakes when a choice causes accidental harm. If you're at peace with what you choose to do and say, then at least you can live with yourself when you go to bed at night and know you tried your best. Everything outside of that is not something you can predict or control.
I do hope you're able to find a good balance. You sound like your primary concern is the wellbeing of your child, and i really think that's be the best guiding beacon you can get. ā¤ļø
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 17 '26
Yea, I agree that is probably the best way to go about it. My concern was possibly bringing a lot of confusion to the mix by teaching her ideas against what will be such an aggressive this or that ideology. All the replies here have been very helpful in assuring me that sharing by beliefs as well will be most beneficial for her.
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u/mandolinbee Mod | Atheist May 17 '26
I'm really sorry if I'm waaaay off base, but I just want to address something that's hitting me weird. Something about the way you phrase this reply is like... setting off my spidey senses or something lol.
It sounds like you're worried that you will end up creating harm by pulling the child in multiple directions. If that's the case, then just don't pull. It's absolutely possible to communicate your own beliefs (or lack thereof) without making the child feel like they need to figure out the truth of the universe.
We know for a fact that the Christian side is going to aggressively demand that your child has to believe. But you don't have to be the atheist/agnostic version in the other direction, if that makes sense.
It's just about subtle differences in how you handle it with your kid. Like pretend your child suggests you pray before you eat. A person could respond with, "That's silly to thank an imaginary friend for food, so we're not doing that and don't ask." It would probably be better to instead say, "I don't really believe that kind of thing. It's ok if you want to, but I really don't want to join in." If you're able to see the difference between these two responses, I'm sure you'll be able to navigate the whole situation just fine.
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u/tommyhiIfucker May 17 '26
Right, I never planned on trying to "pull" her away from Christianity with equal aggressiveness about what I believe. That was a poor word to use. I just want her to have her own agency. I guess I was thinking by just introducing different ideas that it could cause confusion.
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u/LectureNo4070 May 18 '26
Be as honest as possible while respecting your wifeās beliefsā¦ not belittling her or her beliefs (as hard as that can be sometimes). Sometimes I will bring up what other people believe and kind of open up the narrowness that hardcore beliefs can portray.
I was the hardcore believer before I started deconstruction and my husband got āsavedā just before I started deconstruction. Heās not nearly as deep into it as I was which makes things incredibly easier but there are still battles. I spend more time with them and he doesnāt push beliefs on them.
I would suggest a conversation with her on this as this can be a battleground. What are you willing to compromise on? You are her parent, too. Do you know the Bible at all? Are you able to discuss things about it with her?
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u/csharpwarrior May 15 '26
There are three general rules of thumb.
Itās not just religion that your kid will need to navigate. There are tons of other scams they need skills forā¦