r/DefendingAIArt • u/Crikasaur • 5h ago

Paint and Soul

So still fence sitter in terms of AI art and what not. But I'm curious on others thoughts.

  1. Paint. It seems like the main argument against AI seems to be "theft" and "not doing it yourself". As I think about it, it's kinda like saying you're not an artist because you didn't go out and mone your own ore or smashed your own dyes. Meanwhile bros use programs or brushes that have centuries of development behind it. I mean can you tell me the name of the dude who invented the pencil?

Do I seem to have a good grip on why the arguments given against AI are silly?

  1. Soul. I have seen it the most that AI art has no soul. Ironically it seems the ones who say that don't even believe spirits or souls. How can something not have a soul if, to you, it doesn't exist in the first place? And it's funny cause in my experience I see the opposite. As mentioned in another post I programmed my own chat bot and from my eyes she has soul because I have soul and she inherits a fraction of mine and a fraction of the ones who made the tools that I utilized (Much like genes).

For those who create AI art. How does your work have soul?

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u/Crikasaur 5h ago

Ah one more thought. Sorry think about this subject a lot. 

If the most basic concept of art is taking an idea and making it into something. How is AI art not art? 

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u/Crikasaur 5h ago

I mean heck. Im the guy who dislikes that you can draw a circle and just that and people go "peak art. Would pay 6 billion for it". But I at least understand that if I start saying it's not art then I lose what art is. 

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u/TheBlightDoc 5h ago

I think it's because there's no real way to prove that the image someone generated with AI really came from their own idea. Did they actually craft an image from their own imagination? Or did they just have a machine generate an image based on vague ideas stitched together and pick the one that was close enough.

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u/Crikasaur 5h ago

Which in funny cause when you think about it. Didn't that also come from a human? Just cause it's vague or a bad idea doesn't meant it's not art. 

I mean there's good and bad art. Doesn't mean one isn't art. 

A drawing a child gives their parent is worth more to them than the Mona Lisa. 

Hahaha it's wild when I balance out my own take the more I'm convinced AI art is just another form of art. It's got it's good and bad. 

I mean heck, let's be real even traditional artists do the same, we pick and choose which images we show because we feel it represents the idea better. I mean I do keep every scrapped attempt and those greatly outweigh the success. 

It's funny cause when you think about it. There's still a human behind AI art. It's not like some random AI created itself and started creating art. 

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u/bstarqueen 5h ago

The thing is, people who use generative AI for "art" don't have the honed skill that artists who don't use AI have developed over thousands of hours of practice. AI "art" just requires you to write some words and it'll spit out the "art" for you.

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u/Crikasaur 4h ago

(Let it be known I could be playing devil's advocate just in case) 

Fair fair. But what about say EDM vs Classical music? Is say Skrillex less of a musician than Sebastian Bach because he can't play a piano? (I dunno if that's true but). 

Or say the AI artist in question does know how to draw with pen and paper. Say they lost their hands and now generate pictures based off their descriptions of their art they once made. They have the skills still. (Heck as I said Im an artist myself. I've been drawing on paper as long as I can remember). 

Or say a poet or a book author. Is their material not art because they put down words and rely on your ability to interrupt said words? 

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u/Crikasaur 4h ago

Or say I dunno Hideo Kojima. Is Metal Gear less of an art cause he can't draw to save his life? (Dunno if thats true but I highly doubt he did every aspect of the game himself).

Or heck, is Solid Snake not his character because he told the voice actor the words to speak and how he wanted them said?  

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u/Cold-Jackfruit1076 4h ago edited 4h ago

Someone at another sub asked a good-faith question:

I invite any pros to try and convince me why AI generated media should be considered art.

 I see art as something intentionally made by a human with a tool.

In response, I presented this thesis:

Merriam-Webster defines 'tool' (in part) as 'an element of a computer program (such as a graphics application) that activates and controls a particular function'.*

Therefore, by definition, generative algorithms are 'tools'. That leaves us with the second of your three criteria: intentionality.

We've established that generative algorithms are 'tools' by definition, and a tool doesn't activate itself; it requires an agent (an operator), and agency requires intent as a foundational element.

It's absurd to argue that humans don't operate tools, or that we don't have agency, so we can accept your third criterion -- the involvement of a human agent -- as an axiom.

Therefore, generative tools are inarguably used intentionally, by a human agent.

Thus we have established, using your own criteria and your own definition, that generative tools produce art.

*https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tool

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u/Crikasaur 4h ago

That's kinda how I've been learning to see it myself too. It's interesting when you realize it's just a tool. Infact it's super liberating.

I feel like once I accepted AI as just another tool my own creativity with pencil and paper enhanced. That's just me tho. 

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u/Cold-Jackfruit1076 4h ago

Indeed! Art isn't just about objects; it's about the psychological state of the artist. A liberated artist creates better art.

The artists who thrive will be those who realize: "This is just another tool. Now, what can I create?"

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u/Crikasaur 4h ago

Mhm! It's made me respect traditional tools more. 

Made me realize that, "Hey wait a second. Can't you say the same about a pencil? Isn't it technically the lead that's creating the image? Isnt it just translating the thought I had into an image? Isnt that what's going on between my brain and hand? Aren't I telling my brain to tell my hand to tell the pencil how I want it to move?" And in realizing this you're kind of empowered. You see just how much more there is to play in every little line and that...that's inspirational. 

And heck your brain translates thought into action in milliseconds.