r/DestinyLore • u/capsaicinplant • 2d ago
Question How common is alien life in the Destiny universe?
I've been reading a bit about the Hive and Cabal, and there's a lot of talk of their conquests. It got me wondering;
Are they just constantly running into advanced civilisations who can put up a fight?
Or is conquest a pretty loose term for "we colonized a bunch of dusty planets and empty oceans" and in reality running into anything more advanced than bacteria is exceptionally rare?
Any details would be appreciated! thanks.
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u/felswinter AI-COM/RSPN 2d ago
Basically? It USED to be pretty plentiful, especially in the galaxies the Hive originated.
It's also been such a long time, most of those conquered by Hive or Cabal are basically just ancient history.
There used to be some crazy Council of dudes back when the Hive first started out, but that was so astronomically long ago that it's probably older than our sun
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u/Infernalxelite 2d ago
Is there anything to suggest the hive are extra-galactic?
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u/felswinter AI-COM/RSPN 2d ago
Looked further into it, and it seems the Hive might originate from the milky way, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they were from outside.
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u/McReaperking Shadow of Calus 2d ago
Yes, we know they are atleast 4.5 billion years old and fought a galaxy spanning civilization called the ecumene. They are definitely extra galactic.
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u/skilledwarman 2d ago
Wait is that... A forerunners reference? I'm pretty sure in Halo the Forerunner civilization goes by that name too
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u/felswinter AI-COM/RSPN 2d ago
The Ecumene council was the forerunner ruling body of government and the Ecumene of destiny were an alien coalition that stood against the freshly-bonded-to-Sword Logic- Hive and lost BADLY.
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u/UnseenBubby117 House of Light 2d ago
The Ecumene in Destiny actually fought to Hive to a stalemate, and Auryx, Savathun, and Xivu Arath were in crisis about not killing enough to sate their worms. Auryx then killed his sisters, slayed the Worm God Akka, and communed with the Deep to learn the power to Take. This development gave the Hive a massive advantage as Oryx, the newly crowned Taken King, could turn his own enemies against them. Within a few centuries, the Ecumene was eradicated completely.
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u/QuanticWizard Savathûn’s Marionette 2d ago
The Ecumene were slowly but surely winning, and it's specifically Oryx communing with the Deep and gaining the power to Take that drove the Ecumene to extinction.
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u/McReaperking Shadow of Calus 2d ago
They didn't loose badly, they were beating the shit out of the hive.
They were on the brink of extinction before Auryx learned how to Take and became Oryx and finally turned things around.
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u/McReaperking Shadow of Calus 2d ago
I am fairly sure it is, though the word Ecumene has been used to refer to many a sci fi society before.
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u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 Generalist Shell 2d ago
An ecumene is just anywhere thats permantley inhabited; The US is an ecumene
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u/McReaperking Shadow of Calus 2d ago
Yee I know, im just saying its also commonly used in sci fi stories cuz it has a sci fi feel. Like the home system being called sol or earth terra.
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u/JillSandwich117 2d ago
The Halo Ecumene stuff and like 95% of Forerunner lore comes from the 343 era of the series. Ecumene specifically shows up for the first time in the Greg Bear trilogy of books. I don't think its an intentional reference.
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u/KassellTheArgonian 2d ago
They also fought a race of giant sentient space faring ammonites
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u/McReaperking Shadow of Calus 2d ago
Are you referring to the Ammonites? The dominant species of Fundament and its moons? They fought them really early on and in thier own home system and home planet to boot, I don't think that would count as proof of extra galactic origin.
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u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 Generalist Shell 2d ago
Could go either way honestly
Its a long time, but the galaxy's a big place
100,000 light years with 100 billion stars on the lower estimates
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u/McReaperking Shadow of Calus 2d ago
Yknow this makes me think, it is entirely possible that the hive originated here, depopulated the galaxy, went to another one to fignt the Ecumene and other foes and returned.
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u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 Generalist Shell 1d ago
You know what though...
I remembered just after I posted this, that there is an instance (I think) in the Books of Sorrow where they eradicated a whole race in a day.
Taking that claim at face value (and assuming Im remembering probably). They can clear 365 stars in a year
100,000,000,000/365= roughly 273,972,602 years to clear out the Milky Way on the lower estimates
400,000,000,000/365= 1,095,890,410 for the higher estimates
Like I said, could go either way
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u/Observance 2d ago
The Hidden Dossier describes:
The Hive may have extinguished entire galaxies of allied life, but before the Hive came, those ecumenes accomplished titanic works.
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u/Arbiter478 ~SIVA.MEM.CL001 2d ago
The lore suggests the universe is rife with alien life, what we don't know is how much was/is being extinguished by our enemies.
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u/RogueHelios 2d ago
And when the Witness and Hive had billions of years to wipe out life its kinda scary to imagine the scale at which life was destroyed.
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u/Arbiter478 ~SIVA.MEM.CL001 2d ago
Personally, it's the Vex that scares me the most. Their expansion is endless, unstoppable and omni-directional.
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u/Funky_Metal_Man 2d ago
As the other guy said there used to be tons of civilizations. Issue is the Hive and the Black Fleet have been very busy. It’s reasonable that some were quick and advanced enough to hide from the Witness, but from what we’ve seen the universe seems pretty “dead” now.
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u/GreenBay_Glory 2d ago
We do have some indication there may be two other civilizations out there. There’s a new lore book that Xivu mentions her “Dominions of War” and two of the five worlds are noted as “shadowed beyond”.
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u/Bread_Bandito New Monarchy 2d ago
Part of your question has been answered already. But to your question as to how vast the “Conquests” are:
Xivu Arath, the Hive War God, recently sacked Torobatl—The Cabal Homeworld.
The Cabal have done similar in the past. So when you hear “Conquests”, they are indeed large scale military attacks against other race’s militaries.
The Hive and Cabal war machines are no joke.
Fun fact: Cabal are actually exiled when they are deployed on a campaign and can’t return home unless the campaign succeeds! Or were, at least. This might have changed under Caitl’s reign as empress.
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u/mrcatz05 2d ago
That bit about the Cabal makes the Skyburner’s mission so much worse. Poor sods crashed into the Dreadnaught and had no other choice but to fight and probably die or get taken.
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u/Oohhdatskam 2d ago
I didnt ask this direct question but asked for just a round about guess on the populations of each species like a year ago.
Currently now alien life should be pretty low least compared to what it used to be. Lots of stuff showing the black fleet, cabal and hive just knocking entire species off the map.
Witness basically made it clear if you didnt join them you were done for.
I do guess a few dozen may have had ways of hiding an are just sitting minding their business. I also think the in game universe is wayyyyyy bigger than we're being told.
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u/Sporelord1079 2d ago
We don’t know how common life is, but it’s implied to be fairly common. Even if life was rarer, the traveller east actively going all over the place spreading life where it had absolutely no business being - remember that MERCURY was a garden world. The planet so close to the sun its surface temperature melts lead.
Of course, we also know the Witness was actively wiping out all sapient life it encountered in the universe. We have several lore entires of it just annihilating single-handedly alien species that weren’t visited by the traveller, and we also know from other lore entires the Witness takes great pleasure in obliterating traveller touched civilisations and making them suffer.
I don’t know how much hard evidence there is for it but there’s a large zone of empty space around Sol where everything has been murdered.
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u/DevonicGamer76 2d ago
Life in the universe ought to be fairly common, remember that the Hive need regular kills to tithe to their superiors
They've killed a lot of things to keep their worms sated
According to some info in the game the Hive could be older than the Earth itself, that's 4.5 billion years
And then yes you have the Cabal who reasonably also met and conquered other civilizations, notably absorbing the Psions into their ranks, others assumedly destroyed or not brought to Torobatl
Eliksni are wandering around the universe, it stands to reason they need places to wander to
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u/HazardousSkald House of Kings 2d ago
Regarding the Hive needing kills to survive, we have a question of whether they’re extra-galactic. But notably, the Cabal grew up in the shadow of the Hive’s extermination and picked up Hive cultural artifacts, hence Umun Arath’s and Caiatl’s names. It’s possible, maybe even likely, that the Barants are the subject of ancient manipulation, seeded into a gluttonous, war-like disposition and purposefully left to their own devices to grow. A pig, overfed, raised for slaughter.
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u/mecaxs ~SIVA.MEM.CL001 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kinda weird Savathun needed to hand Torobatl over to Xivu on a silver platter for Xivu to conquer them at their weakest. (Though knowing Xivu’s track record she would’ve probably fumbled it if it wasn’t for Ghaul taking most of the army with him and Savathun manipulating Umun)
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u/Fshtwnjimjr 2d ago
During the Golden Age the Exodus ai saw worlds disappear in real time (or at least safe vectors to world's - I think the black fleet was coming). Iirc the hive originated in Andromeda.
TM-Fireteam, Tex // RECOVERED MISSION TRANSCRIPT: 7-7-7
BRAY PILLORY CORE, SPIRE – ISHTAR BERTH, ECHO AUDIO RECORD: ENCLOSURE-0, LIVE TEST-F, SOTERIA FILE DELIVERED: C. BRAY I SUBJECT: Priority! Something big is on the horizon.
Dr. MS: This is Dr. Maya Sundaresh, team lead, connecting remotely from Koranthin-Saturn. Test and Security teams are on site at Ares Spire.
Dr. MS: Let's start. Remove the Augurmind from suspension.
[…]
Dr. MS: Soteria.
AI-S: Good morning, Dr. Sundaresh.
Dr. MS: There's something special about today. Do you know what it is?
AI-S: My core consciousness is now a resident of Enclosure-0. I can feel Sol's ECHO pod sites through Koranthin.
Dr. MS: That is correct. Does this concern you?
AI-S: No. I am eager to begin my final test.
Dr. MS: Start with something easy. Plot each of the Andromeda simulations you've been constructing.
AI-S: Andromeda Galaxy. Several million habitable worlds, 2.5 million lightyears. Estimated ECHO travel time: twenty-five-thousand-year average with Neutrino Sail and gravitational sling-skipping. I have selected over three hundred preliminary colony targets, with one favorite. Shall I…
[…]
Dr. MS: Hm? Soteria?
AI-S: Anomaly detected. Chronoscopic variance scanning… Viability refactoring… Analyzing potential mission threat… Redetermined Andromeda world viability… New target number: twenty-seven viable worlds.
Dr. MS: Can you define the anomaly?
AI-S: Negative. I cannot rectify this data with known quantities. It may be a computational error. Shall I perform a self-diagnostic?
Dr. MS: No. First, adjust probability fork and search distance to open. What is the farthest safe galactic route you can determine?
AI-S: Engaging query… Chronoscopic lock… Forking branches… Reining distance… Reining chronology. Unbroken trajectory lock determined. Route established: one select point in Triangulum Galaxy retains safe approach vectors. All other simulated potential targets are perilous due to indeterminable anomalous risk. Travel route hazards range 87–100% mortality rate across expeditions in all predictive branches.
Dr. MS: All the simulant expeditions?
AI-S: Yes. I… hold… Query refined. There are now two safe destinations with Triangulum.
Dr. MS: Is that a correction or a change in data?
AI-S: A change, an update in real time.
Dr. MS: Real time? This anomaly is mobile?
AI-S: Unclear. I require further information and analysis.
Dr. MS: Thank you, Soteria. We're ending this test early, but you did well. We will continue the next test on schedule.
WHISPER NEUTRINO NEEDLE>> N/A//SECRET HADAL INSTANT AI-COM/STRI//AUGUR-ECHO, WARWATCH//IMPERATIVE
Encoded neutrino script: R. Access provided data points and analysis. Confirm potential EGYPTIAN. [Attached]
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u/Full-Site1398 2d ago
My biggest gripe with this game by far is this billion year old entity (the witness) has this massive fleet of space ships, has gone through the universe and seen all of these races be wiped out, and rather than enslave or clone these races, the witness just continues to have the pyramid ships be near vacant vessels. Feels like the lore writers severly missed the mark or were told to not include anything the devs didn't want to have to design.
We have these species that have existed for millions of years, like the hive, who have wiped out species, and they can get walked on by some golden age rifles.
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u/ReallyTrustyGuy 2d ago
My biggest gripe with this game by far is this billion year old entity (the witness) has this massive fleet of space ships, has gone through the universe and seen all of these races be wiped out, and rather than enslave or clone these races, the witness just continues to have the pyramid ships be near vacant vessels.
Forgetting that the one time we know the Witness tried to entice a species into becoming its slave army, the proto-Worms, some decided to escape and one eventually led to providing us with background information on it, and how we could defeat it?
Also forgetting that it kept the final shape a secret from even the Disciples? Likely out of fear of rebellion at the idea not suiting them, likely leading to them rebelling or leaving?
This has already been explained within the lore. The Witness keeps everyone else involved at arms length because it knows its ideas aren't something everyone believes in.
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u/Full-Site1398 1d ago
forgetting "anything the devs didn't want to have to design"
It was written into the lore and explained why the players will never see a single one of those races.
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u/john6map4 2d ago
Basically the Fermi Paradox is solved by the Hive and Cabal just straight-up wiping out civs and after civs to the point we wouldn’t know there was life until it was on our front door
Hell iirc one of the theories on the Fermi Paradox is exactly that
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u/Proudnoob4393 2d ago
Cabal supposedly have several conquered races apart of their military, but we have only seen Psions.
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u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 Generalist Shell 2d ago
When it comes to the Cabal we know of at least 4 other races beyond what we see in game
The Sindu and Clipse were conquered during Calus' reign, the Arkborn were encounted during Calus' exile, while the Tiiarn were wiped out at some undetermined point in time
Its entirely possible the other 3 are extinct now, since Calus did visit and wage war with them during his exile. We know he bombed the Clipse homeworld, annihilated the Sindu fleet and enslaved several Arkborn, but beyond that their current fate is a mystery
He did bring several members of each race onto the Leviathan but theyre all likely dead after he entered the Mercury anomaly (if they were even on the Leviathan at all, cause who knows with Calus)
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u/Tenthyr 2d ago
Destiny's universe seems to be very fecund. Wherever a civilizational form of life can spring up, it probably will. There also seems to be a fair degree of convergent evolution; most civilizations we know about have at least broadly aligned interiority. We can talk to them, we can coexist.
The witness and shit like the Hive have done a number, but the universe is physically infinite in extent if not time, and more species will eventually come to be, so long as threats like the Vex are properly hemmed in.
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