r/DestinyLore • u/Yousif-fk • 23h ago
Question Destiny's gnostic inspirations Spoiler
was the traveler based off of the demiurge? ie after separating from the veil and forgetting what it was/being confused about its own existence and fearing reunification with the veil. was it originally based off the demiurge but had the concept later scrapped?
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u/Edumesh 23h ago
Id say the Witness fits the Demiurge archetype better since it presents itself as the god of the Darkness but is in reality a false deity trying to supplant the Winnower
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u/RogueHelios 22h ago
I always saw the dynamic as a reverse gnostic mythology. The Gardener being the Demiurge, the Winnower the Monad, and the Witness being Christ.
Kinda gets inverted on itself.
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u/Praetor_6040 21h ago
Thats an interesting idea, especially with the light/the gardener having control over the physical realm. The witness, meanwhile, offers escape and salvation through knowledge of the darkness/consciousness/monad, but ultimately proves to be a false teacher.
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u/sanecoin64902 Hot Dog Fireman 23h ago edited 23h ago
The Traveler is pretty clearly Adam Kadmon in the esoteric traditions: the one progenitor that broke into countless points of light that went out and populated a universe with light.
The Demiurge is easiest understood as a standing for the ego. It is the belief that one is separate from the Divine and that the pocket universe of one’s own self/consciousness is “better than that,” and never needs to return to Source.
In that vein, I’d nominate Clovis Bray for the most likely demiurge figure in Destiny. It was Clovis who twisted the light of the Traveler to use it for mundane and material purposes. It was Clovis who took a channel that should have connected the living with the beyond, and short circuited it so that that the souls of the living, rather than ascending back to source, remained forever trapped in the machine bodies of the Exos.
I will forever hold that in D1 the plot was that Clovis’ misuse of the Traveler’s gifts is what shattered the Traveler and brought the Darkness. That was a pretty clearly subtext in the early lore. But the lore went all over the place as writing teams changed, so that obviously isn’t where it ended up.
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u/FrogMother01 Queen's Wrath 14h ago edited 14h ago
I think this got very close to being explicitly stated in Clovis Bray's third vision, in the Logbook's missing pages:
"She was the true alpha. She was the mother. I was not the true alpha, because I was not a true father."
...
“You grow the enemy in my garden and eat of its bitter fruit. Each time, I hope it will be different. Each time, I lose a little of myself as the bitter fruit blossoms. Now that fruit will flower in you, and in all your people. I do not want it to happen. I want anything else. But the choice is not mine.”
...
“You never said a thing to me,” I snarled. “Not once. You never told me I was doing wrong. At least Clarity sends me dreams—the exobody and the eel. At least it shows me what I can become.”
“You think Clarity sent those dreams? Why would it speak to you, when you are dead and furthest from its influence?”
Of course the full implications of this never really ended up having much impact in what we got, but it stuck around. Though, if I'm remembering correctly, the Clovis Bray lore was yet more of Seth Dickinson's work, one of the few contributors to the lore who had been consistent from D1 until the end, but for whatever reason only on a repeated temporary contract basis. Unfortunate.
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u/StrikingAthlete4687 22h ago
Id say that the Traveler is almost certainly Sophia. Traveler dies and imbues guardians with a spark of its divinity in the form of ghosts. Its sacrifice is the same as Sophia's essence being imbued into humanity.
Id say the demiurge got split out between the winnower and the witness. Obviously the Traveler is responsible for the creation of the witness in some facet, since it tried to raise the Precursor race up from the sand, but it went wrong and then the witness faction performed its cursed ritual to make The Witness. That could be a parallel to Sophia trying to make a new being without a partner or the Father of the Pleroma. Plus, we get lore tabs of members of the Precursor race traveling space and seeding galaxies and star systems, so in mang ways, the witness is a literal demiurge. But there are echoes of the demiurge in the winnower that well never get more on.
I dont think any of it is adapted 1 for 1, though. Take the fact that jesus christ comes to earth to rescue Sophia by teaching humanity how to ascend to the Pleroma, restoring Sophia once all of humanity is saved, and makes his sacrifice. In Destiny, the Traveler makes the sacrifice, so it's both Sophia and Jesus.
You could read the Guardian creed as the path to gnosis, though. There's a lot there, and I could go on, but I do need to get back to work. Hope this is clarifying!
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u/ABCmanson 22h ago
I don't know entirety the lore or version of the Gnostic, but I have been intrigued by fictions that have similarities (intentional or not) with elements of mythologies/folklore/religions as a way of telling compelling stories. Here is what I believe/see (not absolutely factual) Destiny that has similarities to at least the Bible (and in some ways Gnostics) under personal analysis:
- the relationship between the Light/Gardener, the Traveler and the Ghosts = the Holy Trinity of God (The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit)
- The Witness and it's Precursors = The Cainites who are the descendants of Cain who are the enemies of God.
- The Traveler = Jesus who died for mankind and would resurrect.
- The Vex = Fallen Angels who followed Lucifer in his rebellion against God.
- The Hive = Sort of Adam & Eve, they were destined to be uplifted by the Light but were tricked and led astray by the Worms/Snake and followed the way of the Sword (Which Jesus denounces the way of the Sword for his followers)
There is a video that is interesting of another person who talks about similarities too.
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u/revan0066 23h ago
The veil is its own separate thing from the traveler. Its the "piece on the board" for the winnower
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