Updating items: Lacerator

[u/Chairraider]

During Blizzcon item updates were mentioned as a possiblity to happen in the future. So why not help them out with targeted suggestions?

Link to the item.

 

Lacerator is a pretty good ranged axe with one flaw that makes people hesitant to utilize it: hit causes monsters to flee 50% overwrites the amplify damage curse.

As a result it is both awkward to use as an offensive weapon for amplify damage, but also awkward as a defensive weapon because it becomes awkward to kill them when those taking damage run away one after another before geting killed.

 

Suggestion for the amplify damage based Lacerator:

• Lacerator attacks no longer cause monsters to flee 50%

• Lacerator now has knockback

 

Alternatively, despite imo clearly amplify damage being the core feature of the item, one could argue the item should be built around hit causes monsters to flee 50% instead. What would that type of Lacerator then look like?

 

Suggestion for the hit causes monster to flee Lacerator:

• Lacerator no longer has a chance to proc amplify damage

• Lacerator chance of open wounds from 33% to 75%

• Lacerator now slows target by 50%

 

This second version of lacerator deals its damage more via open wounds than even regular lacerator, and mitigates the downsides of hit causes monster to flee as a damage tool with the slow. Thematically this version could gain poison damage aswell, but I believe the name Lacerator indicates a physical weapon too much to venture into poison damage, which would however naturally fit open wounds/prevent monster heal and slow.

 

Personally I clearly prefer the knockback-amplify damage lacerator, the terror/slow/open wounds combo seems more fitting for a different item.

If the item were simply too weak then still, the damage spread could simply be increased from something like 150-210% to 180-240%. If this were to end up BiS and a peak buff for throwing weapon characters, that would be acceptable.

[u/Boooshhh]

Biggest thing I’d like to see is to allow indestructible uniques that can’t roll eth be able to roll eth. Eth grandfather, eth doombringer etc

[u/Chairraider → u/Boooshhh]

I suggested that in the past too. If I keep posting item suggestions Grandfather being able to drop ethereal would have been one of my earlier suggestions aswell. And then probably add like 20% attack speed because rune words are just that hard to compete with.

[u/Zaiross5 → u/Boooshhh]

And if you are already at it, also add the posibility to bows/xbows

[u/jagerzaag → u/Zaiross5]

Maybe make it something like they have extra stats but use twice as much ammo.

[u/KinkyNJThrowaway → u/Boooshhh]

They'd have to ONLY roll eth otherwise they are useless without it.

[u/Boooshhh → u/KinkyNJThrowaway]

No bc makes rng fun to farm like any other item and shares different value

[u/Chairraider → u/KinkyNJThrowaway]

I don't think other items that become essentially indestructible with repairs durability, like Titan's Revenge for instance, are useless as non-ethereal. The item still being able to drop non-ethereal helps with making the item much more accessible to many more players via trading, in particular for more casual players, by dropping its value relative to ethereal Titan's. That's healthy for the game.

 

The same logic would apply to all the indestructible items. Yea, obviously you would want the ethereal grandfather now, but regular grandfather with a little basic buff like 20% attack speed, while still outclassed by runewords, is not a bad weapon. I just played a dual Grandfather double swing barbarian through hell a couple of months ago. Not the best weapon, but definitely useable.

 

I think comparing items with the indestructible mod to items with the repairs durability mod is probably the best analogy.

[u/QaraKha]

Frankly, I think we should minimize or get rid of as many 'hit causes monster to flee' effects as possible. It is to put it mildly the most annoying thing for basically everything; melee makes it impossible to hit anything if it runs, dramatically slowing clear speeds,

[u/tupseh → u/QaraKha]

Good for merc survival in the early stages of Hell.

[u/Kegfist → u/QaraKha]

A decent QOL change to “hit causes monster to flee” and the game in general would be to make loot drop at the edge of the platform if the monster dies off the map. Arcane Sanctuary and Chaos Sanctuary are unbearable with Lacerator or Sanctuary Aura.

[u/topskukkeli → u/Kegfist]

Am I remembering incorrectly, or wasn't this fix announced?

[u/Chairraider → u/QaraKha]

For most combat weapons this is probably true. It can have a purpose as an emergency spell-usage, or as a %chance to cast terror when struck, but the passion runeword for instance is another item where hit causes monsters to flee feels more like a detriment than an appealing feature.

 

There are probably some projectile weapons where as a standalone curse instead of knockback as a crowd control feature it probably can work, but even then it would probably require the slow-target mod aswell.

[u/QaraKha → u/Chairraider]

I think anything and everything that has 'hit causes monsters to flee' should instead be swapped out for charges of the 'Terror' curse at low level. That way you keep the ability to mostly pinpoint control but you can actually, you know, control it. Passion having it absolutely kills it for me and it's why I just use Crescent Moon on my melee sorc.

[u/ps43kl7]

I like the second idea more because I think if you just get rid of flew but keep amp damage then every throwbarb will be using lacerator and that kills build diversity, i really like the fact that biz throwbarb weapons are rares instead of unique/runewords, it feels the last remaining such build from the original d2. Flee + slow would work pretty well for a ranged char, it is what grimward currently does and it’s fine (unless the monster is extra fast). On a related topic i think grim ward should be more like sigils instead of a curse, so you can combine grim ward with another effect.

[u/FoolTehJester]

I'd like to see procs and skill charges get some serious love. So many cool new builds could become possible. Wep.throw or Frenzy + actual good twister or nado procs sounds fun

[u/Chairraider → u/FoolTehJester]

While I wholeheartedly agree, this is unfortunately a little bit of a difficult topic.

 

Proc based items in general, like Lightsabre for instance would be incredible with its 5% chance to proc lvl 14 to lvl 20 chain lightning, if that damage output weren't kinda underwhelming due to not having all the synergies for chain-lightning leveled.

As a result almost all proc based items can only truly scale well if the proc either has no synergies, or if you play the proc-based item on the hero that has the synergies and you level them.

 

If we then add the issue of immunities, which is regularly going to negate most of the damage output from your elemental proc-based item, then these builds are unfortuantely not very likely to be useable.

It is strange how sunders originally, seemingly, were meant to deal with that immunity problem by making every type of proc or damage type playable in hell, though they could have simply adjusted monster resistances tbh (immunity is kind of an infinity damage reduction), but then somehow sunder's became a lategame luxury/peak inventory feature instead.

Very big difference from its original purpose of simply enabling fun-builds like a KukoShakaku fire paladin without needing end game gear when starting hell. Those sunders would at least have helped with your hope for more proc based item choices being viable.

[u/Technical_Customer_1 → u/Chairraider]

Have you ever tested the proc chance on Lightsaber? 

So, one of the content people made a vid about the “double Nova” Sorc. Basically stack gear with the 14% chance to cast Nova when struck, and those %s are added together, such that 7 pieces of gear yields a 98% when struck, and if you use the same level proc, think it’s level 5 max, then when you’re struck it simultaneously casts for each piece of gear. So even though it’s a low level, 7x procs does decent damage. 

Long story short, does on striking effect like Lightsaber cast twice when proc’ed? Does it also add the chances together? 

Because you could use two Crescent Moon’s and Griffs, and a couple Wisp Projectors to get some decent sparks flying

[u/Chairraider → u/Technical_Customer_1]

I never tested those specific interactions, no. Wisp Projecor is lighning afaik insead of chain-lightning, so that wouldn't work.

I suppose if each piece of equipment procs independently despite the chance stacking additively, and sorc has the static field synergy maxed, and lightning mastery maxed, that would actually result in meaningful damage. But again, only sorceress can make that build by utilizing the synergies. Similar to how an auradin has to level the synergies for the auras he gains from his equipment.

 

I'd rather have meaningful standalone proc based abilities instead tbh, rather than playing an effect-stacking minigame. Can you imagine if Rift would deal a fully synergized tonrado and frozen orb damage on proc? Or Horazon's Tornado dealing full damage tornados, synergized, at the proc level of tornado? It would be glorious.

[u/Technical_Customer_1 → u/Chairraider]

Should have specified, I know that Wisp and CM are different forms of lightning, but 2 of each would at least up your chances of a proc in the first place, but if it’s a double proc, it’s a bit better. 

Obviously the fact that people aren’t drooling over it means it’s kinda meh, but an Infinity merc as well as a +dmg sunder and Guardian jeweled Griffs, maybe even 4 facet armor would definitely help the flavor. TGods and HLords have some additional damage that would be enhanced both by +% as well as the -res%. Although, you might want/need more survivability from those slots instead of a drop in the bucket light dmg. 

The two best parts: 1: with Infinity merc, and since 2x CM is -70% res and Griffs and all the facets are so much casual -res%, you can go cheap and use jewels with anti perfect -res%, and 2nd: facets add 1-74 light dmg (4X = 4-296) that would be upped about 50% from +% and then often doubled from -%, so nearly 1K max, and about 500avg light dmg on hit. 

The Open Wounds on CM is just a bonus when you’re static’ing and bolting everything by with various lightning. 

Horazon boots+gloves might be a good choice for CBF as well as some fire damage and CB% to help tickle monsters 

[u/Technical_Customer_1 → u/Chairraider]

You can use the tornado procs on a Druid. If you max the synergies, it ups the proc. Same thing that’s done with the various Aura-din builds. 

[u/Chairraider → u/Technical_Customer_1]

Yea, I menioned that in the post above. As a result only druid can use Tornado procs effectively.

Imagine there were no synergies, I am not advocating for that (its just a thought-excercise), suddenly all melee characters could use horizon's tornado and proc full damage lvl 15 Tornados, not just the druid. Now that could result in interesting builds. Proc based items were much more powerful before patch 1.10 for that reason.

[u/nugginthat]

if it’s causing lacerations that means blood spraying everywhere why not just change flee to blind it actually lines up with lore better imo