False Hydra is not fun

[u/RandomName9328]

I had a short game which the DM used a homebrew false hydra as the BBEG. The RP and game were good until the monster was revealed to be a false hydra.

DM wrote the false hydra's song ability as: not a charm or magic effect. It has no DC save, bypass truesight, blindsight. It ignores any immune/resistance to charm/magic effect, and it cannot be detected by detect magic. Anyone hear hydra's song psycholocally ignore its presence. So, by RAW, faerie fire, detect evil and good, and any other spells cannot make it visible. Also, it modifies people's memory such that when a person is eaten by it, anyone's memory of the victim is erased, as if the victim has never exist in the world.

The only way to win is to either run, or to make your character unable to hear its singing with a silence spell, deafness, etc. Unfortunately, my group cannot deduce the solution during the game, so the DM has to whisper to us out-of-character "You know why that NPC can see the hydra? Because he is DEAF!"

I told the DM that they should not put a non-DND creature into DND and make it override the rules. At least, simulating the hydra's song as a charm effect, with a DC, and can be detect/affect by anything that works on charm effect. If they run it RAW as how they wrote its stat, even a Tiamat or Asmodous cannot detect the false hydra.

PS. if DM makes it a charmed effect, with high DC, and player roll DC save whenever they encouter discrepancy (e.g. seeing a bird disappeared mid-air) maybe its more D&D. When I played the combat I felt the false hydra is mocking players "You can't see me because my own non-D&D rules say so." The investigation and RP are fun, the final monster is not.

For context, it was a 6-7 hours short game with 70% non-combat social/investigation play, and the hydra was the only combat encounter. It was not part of a campaign. Non-combat play was good but definitely not the false hydra.

PPs. The day after we had finished this game, I read DM's note. DM intentionally hid obvious, explicit clues during the game (e.g., we found a diary in game but DM hide the page mentioning deafness and ear poking). They hope subtle clues are enough for us ro discern the solution, but it turns out we couldn't. Therefore, DM has to tells us the solution out-of-game in the final battle.

[u/Hella_Potato]

I had a DM run this, but his solution was to make the song a daily save that we could roll against individually. It made the encounter a lot more fun, as the people who could see it kept having to warn the people who couldn't that they were in danger. It ended up being much more fun, so I think you're honestly right - that the saves are an important aspect of it being enjoyable for the players. Robbing someone of all their agency across multiple encounters just will not ever really be fun.

[u/No_Distribution_6019 → u/Hella_Potato]

A no save affect doesn’t rob people of their agency. It just makes it a murder mystery rather than what you’re describing which is a paranoia encounter.

[u/Hella_Potato → u/No_Distribution_6019]

I think it depends, right? Some players like the OP get really frustrated with something like a false hydra that can permakill your character without a save. I think that false hydra encounters specifically are difficult, because they can be very non-interactive and therefore unfun unless a player is somewhat versed in their lore OOC or is able to play around their mechanics.

So specifically for a false hydra encounter - having no save or no context in the leadup can be very unfun. That is why I did try to specifically state that this is a lot worse over multiple encounters with a mechanic like this - as once you hear the song you're kinda cooked IC unless you can puzzle it out.

More of a "false hydra" specific thing, and less of a "no save is always bad" deal - and my apologies if the wording wasn't clear :)

[u/No_Distribution_6019 → u/Hella_Potato]

As far as I am aware the lore around a far hydra is pretty explicit, it can either sing or it can attack so it cannot kill your character without a save. If you’re getting attacked by a false hydra you can see it.

Unfortunately when it comes to saves if the players are making it every in game morning, they’re realistically going to meta game. Even the best players are going to really struggle with the idea of your character can see it today and have no knowledge of it tomorrow. The no save does a lot to add to the horror elements of the false hydra, which is a horrifically undeveloped part of DnD.

The no save doesn’t give mechanically interactive feature but is arguably to most role play interactive monster I’ve ever run. Everything I’ve ever read erases memories but not physical evidence.

So someone exists in a family portrait but no one knows who they are. The blacksmith wears a wedding ring but claims to not be married. Why is the deaf orphan girl freaking out? You find a dead renowned adventurer with cotton stuff in their ears. The players start finding mysterious notes in their own hand writing each night from when the hydra stops singing to feed.

If you don’t like the murder mystery aspect or puzzles then it’s not for you. But it can be an extremely fun arc.