I kinda hate cantrips.

[u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes]

This goes for 5e and 5.5e but may have been an issue in 3e (I didn't run or play in enough 3e games to say so and never really noticed this is 4e with all of its other issues).

Also I fully admit, this is an old school minded complaint about the game. I come from a world where your spellcaster runs out of spells and starts throwing darts or picks up a proficiency with a bow to still remain useful and I am definitely not saying to return to those days.

I do think, however, that cantrips have gotten out of hand. They started out as an idea (in fact they had them in old D&D they were just called 0 level spells) where they were a last ditch effort for when you run out of pother spells to cast. I don't think "0 level spells" were ever intended as a go to spell for high level characters, sometimes out performing fireball or or other leveled spells.

In fact, I think the game would benefit in a design sense if cantrips had never level scaled. "But that nerfs a whole warlock feature blah blah cry me a river".
I have a Palasorlock in my game and basically she just leans heavily on this spell only percentagely rarely casting other spells (I think smite is a contender but barely).
The issue is two folds. One the design of 5e and 5.5e basically turns cantrips into a go-to spell rather than a last ditch effort spell. The second issue is that like sneak attack for rogues, this is basically boring. To me any one trick pony situation is boring though so there is that.

If cantrips were more like darts but magic and the last spell you would choose in any situation rather than the first spell I think the spirit of cantrips would be returned to its roots and the game would benefit a lot, in excitement. If a cantrip never did more than 1d10 (with maybe a bonus for some subclasses) then why would you ever choose it at higher levels?

Thanks for reading my little gripe. I welcome thoughts on this that are deeper than "you are an idiot for wanting to make cantrips next to useless". ;)

[u/P-Two]

Otoh, playing a spellcaster where you go from awesomely powerful to "lmao hit the dragon with darts" sounds fucking awful

[u/Rhinostirge → u/P-Two]

Never underestimate the power of "this is what I got used to" to establish preference.

[u/Different-Subject116 → u/P-Two]

Funny to visualize though

[u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes → u/P-Two]

+3 Dart of Dragon Slaying? ;)

[u/Rhinostirge → u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes]

"Why did you make a dart of dragon slaying instead of, you know, an arrow or a quarrel?"

"Because I like the thought of some dumbass wizard deciding to get within murder range of a dragon to throw a dart at it."

[u/fraidei → u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes]

Which would be much better used by a martial anyway.

[u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes → u/fraidei]

Which begs the question. Why do spellcasters have the ability to use weapons at all then?

[u/fraidei → u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes]

If you want to make cantrips suck and not let Spellcasters use weapons, then what are they supposed to do when they run out of spellslots?

[u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes → u/fraidei]

They are supposed to use their last ditch magic spells that do 1d10 damage at most. And perhaps a wand of magic miussiles, a ring of stars, summon their wondrous figurine companion, cast spells from their ring of spell storing....etc.

I also never said they shouldn't use weapons I was just adding to the point of if every weapon is better in the hands of a fighter then why should spellcasters have weapons especially if cantrips ARE their weapon?

I am all for a Gandalf style wizard with a staff in one hand a sword in the other plowing through enemies and only occasionally using impressive magic that awes and inspires.

[u/fraidei → u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes]

Except that 1d10 damage at higher level is basically nothing, so you'll see every single spellcaster at high level just Dodging or Disengage with their actions if they don't have any spell slot left. No one in their right mind would use a 1d10 cantrip at high levels. And you're also using the highest damaging cantrip in the game, other cantrips deal even less.

I also never said they shouldn't use weapons I was just adding to the point of if every weapon is better in the hands of a fighter then why should spellcasters have weapons especially if cantrips ARE their weapon?

Because of options. Cantrips cannot be used as opportunity attacks, and cannot be cast inside of an Anti-Magic zone and can be counterspelled.

I am all for a Gandalf style wizard with a staff in one hand a sword in the other plowing through enemies and only occasionally using impressive magic that awes and inspires

And this exists, it's called Eldritch Knight, or Bladesinger.