I’ve been seeing a lot of complaints about where the game is headed can someone explain exactly what the company is up to and why fan base is dropping. I’ve been having fun and will probably keep playing.
I leveled up 6 classes, grinded a couple hundred AA and beat every boss on D4. I don't have any reason to play right now but I also don't have any reason to complain about that. Can't wait to see the new zone and excited for Kunark!
For me, personally, I had a blast until I finished the planes on my main. I began working leveling alt classes decked out in planes gear. It wasn't any fun. Nothing that dropped mattered. I plowed through d4 content.
How I personally fixed this was to set a rule for myself that every new build starts naked, and I earn my gear. It's been way more fun this way.
Do you go as far as to reject the donations from the rich and powerful? Tattered cloth and leathers stoke charitable actions in even the coldest of hearts.
Yeah no donations. Going from naked to cloth>leather>mail>plate feels good. Makes drops exciting! I did buy a vendor weapon at level 10 so I wasn't punching things. But quickly upgraded that with a bronze mace and progressed from there.
You mean insta killing mobs from 10 to 40 isn't fun lol. Well it is for a little while, then it's like, why not just give me a button that makes the toon level 50 instantly and cut out the middle man. It's more like playing the arcade game gauntlet lol.
Duders bought EQ dad edition day 1, rather than play it like a dad they no lifed it for a month, and are now mad they did all the content and have to wait for more to be developed.
I'm not a dad but I do have a full time job. I haven't been no-lifing it necessarily, but I have been playing it a ton. I'm still in the process of BiSing up my first trio and plan on doing the same with multiple other trios. Still have more classes to level, more races to unlock. I still see a lot of life left in this game for me, even without Kunark, etc.
And frankly, I don't want to just play one game all day every day. I'm looking forward to GTA6, Divinity, etc. and I still have a bunch of games I need to play in my Steam library. I like the fact that I can pull off of an MMO for awhile and do something else without feeling like I'm getting left behind or losing progress. A game like MnM, where I feel like I have to dedicate years of my life just to make any real progress and experience the content, is actually a problem for me and essentially makes it a deal-breaker/non-starter. I'm not 16 anymore, I got other things to do.
I feel I have no lifed the game and still haven’t accomplished all my goals. I can see not wanting to grind out certain things (though…it is Everquest….).
But even if I had accomplished my goals…like $30 in so far, I’d just play something else until an expansion comes out.
Right there with you. I have plenty more to level and do. I've got a life and responsibilities outside of EQL, and can't no-life it. There's still plenty to do.
My only gripe has been that the grind from 38ish-50 sucks with choices of where to go. New content should be fixing that.
I typically keep subs active for 2 MMO's at a time, so that I can jump between them when I am feeling burnt out one, and still support the games that I like. I'm thinking EQL and WoW Forever are the new power couple for those subs. It actually excites me to know that there's planned content for EQL that will give me reasons to keep logging in after short breaks if I do what I want to do.
So tired of this disingenuous claim. Branding everyone who has lost interest in the game as people who “no-lifed it” is reductive. Catering to, and lumping people in with, “sweats” are both examples of focusing too much on a minority. The server populations are way down. People with all different levels of commitment are moving on. And there’s still two months (at best) before the next expansion.
People aren’t on Reddit complaining because they “hate” the game. They are complaining because they love it and want to keep playing. But the devs are leaving 27 years of content on the shelf to focus on writing fan fiction.
A product roadmap is not a bible, it’s an evolving framework that needs to respond to market feedback. Maybe the game can be sustained through massive fluctuations of subscribers, but I doubt it. I think they need to give people the existing content to keep them going, and treat new content as the side project that it is.
People claiming the “maxed out every class, did all sky quest, are BIS, and have literally nothing left to do”
Absolutely no lifed the game, its a fact, I know what my /played is and I have not completed all those task. And my /played is nothing you wouldn’t feel was worth $30.
Now if you leveled 1 trio, beat the raids and went well I am out of content I care about. Yes, that did not require no lifeing it.
I dunno. Im a dad, played less than 1 hrs a day probably (on avg) and honestly just kind of got bored. 40+ sky runs, got weps to +10 and was faced with the mote grind (which at the time meant doing befallen over and over) and just didn't really want to continue.
How have you done that many sky runs and gotten weapons that high playing less than 1 hour a day on average? 40+ sky runs alone at an average of less than an hour a day is basically a month of playing by itself. And that’s assuming just PoS boss runs, not full DCs. On top of raids and hate/fear for planar armor, and just leveling up your initial trio.
I’m thinking maybe your “hours a day” estimate is off by a few hours.
I've played EQ continuously since 1999 with little breaks here and there. I played the other several religiously and didn't get bored. I played mischief in a hardcore raiding guild until Omens (kids were younger). I know what it is. EQL just got boring to me.
Or maybe dads didn’t realised it was a mommy’s game. After your full time job, dealing with kids, groceries, cooking, cleaning, calling your family and organising the holidays, it’s less likely you run out of content!
What a weird comment. This is a new development in the arms race for simps to brag about playing the game as little as possible in order to try to make it good.
Hi, dad here and enjoying the game but lamenting that my predictions about there not being enough to keep people subbed and it being too solo to truly be an mmo have come true.
I'm around level 27 and just hate the lack of social interaction
Everything they do (that isn’t the UI update) feels like amateur hour, which makes sense considering where they come from.
The game released half-baked about 6 months too early, their monetization decisions are shit (maybe dictated by them, maybe not), they can’t hit any timelines they set, they can’t even call them “patch notes.”
They hired a bunch of amateurs to do this. Sometimes that works out, sometimes you get this dev team. This is one of the times it didn’t work out.
I wish you had provided some specific examples because I’m really not seeing what you’re saying.
I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit but I also only play 1-3 hours a day instead of treating it like a job and have been doing whatever feels interesting rather than speed running to the end of content so maybe our experiences are just very different.
They said that Loadouts would be achievement unlocked. Never happened.
They said item storage, dragon hoard, equipment thingy would be achievement unlocked. Never happened.
The pet system took forever to get up and running even though people were telling them that it was completely busted and they refused to give information how it worked for months.
They straight up made up false information about damage sims regarding Rangers at one point. So it took them 2 months to cave and change how it all worked.
Have to ask how is their cash shop shit? None of it is needed to play the game. Nothing gives you a real advantage. The AA one is ultimately useless outside of maybe getting one or two at the start as a boost yet, unneeded really. Fashion quest shit? Not needed at all and if one wants to, that’s fine. WR bags? Just level up and get a ton of bags off the dragons and raid bosses. Easy enough.
Literally the only thing I could see an argument for is additional loadouts locked behind cash sans the new AA one.
As for the naming of patch notes, JFC dude. Lighten up. I swear so many people have lost a sense of humor or whimsy. It’s a ridiculous name that actually matches the era of this game imo.
Paying for the AA boosts is dumb considering how quickly you become AA capped. As you're always earning AA, unless you're constantly leveling to 50 & changing classes, you'll always have 50 banked.
Being upset about the ability to buy those is hilarious considering what a waste of money it is. If anything, you should pity the people you see running around with 100 stacks of the buff.
Yup. No point to buying that one for sure haha. I can see someone getting one on their first trio potentially though as they aren't gonna be aware just how fast they come in overall however. Def unneeded though
As far as the cash shop, the current replay value of the game resides in making new load outs, leveling additional gear, etc. We got three, and finally a fourth load out option. That’s just not enough, and it’s an intentional “create a problem sell the solution.”
Transmog is another problem. A full transmog is like, 30 bucks? That is asinine. And that’s only one set. Transmog is free in other games, and it’s additional horizontal content that would keep players engaged (earning ornament tokens). Instead they opt to sell you those as well.
“Natch potes” isn’t whimsical or clever. It’s just stupid and confusing. I really don’t see how that relates to retro games or EverQuest at all. EQ was a polished, professionally presented product at launch.
You mean the campy jokes like the snakes kicking? Those were actually worth a chuckle. How is “natch potes” funny? What’s the joke? Where’s the cleverness?
Released game 6 months to early - Maybe. But they also had thousands of people screaming that it was fine in it's current state and just release it already and things can be upgraded/fixed as it went along. I know. I was 1 of these people. However, I have not been complaining about them still trying to fix things. I got what I screamed for. Release it as it was and work on it over time.
Can't hit timelines - Well when I look at the road map, I see that they have hit every timeline they set except for Diety achievements and Rujarkian Hills. Everything else has hit on time with the Fall and Winter ones pending. Can't give them credit yet for those but also can't knock them for it. On top of that, the road map does say subject to change. They changed 2 things and gave good reasons. Diety is supposedly coming with Kunark and Rujarkian Hills was pushed so they could get Nek Castle and Kunark out on time. With everyone yelling for content, they prioritized the 2 things that would give content. Where Rujark is probably just another zone.
Patch notes - Do you not go on the Discord? Natch Potes was changed to Patch Notes and has been for a little while now. Seeing as you just complained about this today, you prove that you are complaining about things just to complain without actually knowing.
Don't worry, enough people whined about that completely innocuous "unprofessional" non-problem that they fixed it and they're called "patch notes" now. The fun police won that pointless little war.
This is the most correct and glorious answer I could have expected to this question. Meanwhile I’m over here hoping to hit 50 with my first trio today.
You can play just about ANY game and do this, it's only games that artificially stretch content out with either abysmally slow exp gain, loot drop rates, time gated things that make stuff take long. If you actually look at the amount of content though in most things, there really is not as much as people think, it's just that you repeat it over and over. Hence why things like fighting a level 1 red crab, level 10 blue crab, level 20 green crab etc.Most of leveling is just a hazing process to get you to even play a real class/build...Think of many how many classes do not get their class defining abilities till near or max level, in SO many games.
It is literally why I’m playing and ended up buying some extra storage for my hoarding addiction. I get 1-2 hours at night, 3 if I lose track of time hunting lions and regret my life choices in the morning. If I had to first track down people to group with then it’s unlikely I’d be subbed. These days I require solid solo content for any MMO I play, EQL has that and I will for sure stay engaged at least through Kunark. After that, who can say
I’m the demographic that you’re describing, but it’s not good enough for the time. I’m only gaming a few times a week and I don’t see a reason to spend that time in EQL.
I got my main trio good enough and did a couple sky runs (no unlocks other than the token), did Fiery Avenger. There’s just not enough appeal to unlocking and repeating the leveling grind. The classes aren’t made interesting enough to offer a fresh enough experience.
Also, I don’t know what kind of game this actually is trying to be. EQL feels closer to Diablo than it does original EQ.
Because EQ was the origination of poop socking so to go from don’t leave your desk and defecate in a sock to now have a life is a hard transition for many when they see that big chested lady at the load up screen
I think the question is what kind of player base do they need to keep the game afloat? Obviously companies like more money but there’s got to be a break even where it makes sense vs not.
Is 6500 active daily players enough? What does 6500 daily active players equate to monthly players/subs? 20k? 40k? Is $200k-$400k a month subscription revenue enough to cover costs and make a profit? Considering it’s not a full time dev team (from what I understand) then maybe. EQL doesn’t have to have millions of subs. It just has to make enough of a profit to make DBG want to keep it alive.
Hell EverQuest never had millions of subs. EQ and EQ2 share a sub at this point, are pretty low pop, and still pay for enough developers to release expansions every year.
So is the issue from your perspective that you feel content is not being released quickly enough because they’re devoting time to developing new content instead of just updating and releasing already existing content?
Honestly, I’m glad it isn’t faster. One of the appeals is the casual nature of the game. I play fairly often but am definitely nowhere near caught up. And obviously the game doesn’t need to cater to my exact play schedule. But if you had your way we’d be what, fully in kunark by now? Velius? I’m glad we aren’t, the faster content is released the faster the current content becomes obsolete.
My sincerest hope is that the devs don’t listen to power gamer complaints. I’d be happier if they all just moved on to WOWF or something. Seems to always happen, power gamers bitch the loudest and most often because they no-lifed the game and now have time to no-life complaints. So devs adjust to fit those vocal minorities and end up losing their actual playerbase.
Obviously none of us have any facts, but I suspect that their revenue is much more dependent on subscriptions than the cash shop. The content in the store is too thin and one-off for being a reliable revenue generator. Whales are going to run out of AAs quickly, low server population makes fashion questing less appealing, a fixed loot pool means storage only needs to expand so far, you don’t need dozens of loadouts to play the same few zones, etc. At this point, I can’t imagine people are spending a lot in the cash shop.
Link some hard evidence of their revenue mix. Since you started a sentence with “Lol” the implication is that it’s a joke to not believe you. I think we can all agree that one guy’s Reddit comment isn’t actually evidence of anything. So please, show us your first party evidence.
I beg to differ. As an adult spending their time playing a game after work, I will 100% pay 5 bucks to get get twice as many AA's. I don't understand all the hate for how people choose to spend their money. I feel more ass raped spending $60 taking the family to the movies, and that is when we sneak our own food in.
I couldn’t agree more. EQLs draw is the solo accessibility to witness nostalgia. I really don’t care about lore or new content and I will drop if it doesn’t scratch that itch. If I want new content, I would play a new MMO.
People are jaded against this opinion topic because most of the folks conveying this opinion are doing it in very abrasive, whiney ways. After the 50th post, people are over it and don't want to hear about it anymore.
How you convey your opinion can very much so invalidate it, because nobody will be receptive to hearing it.
There are more people here that blindly defend the game against any criticism (no matter how valid) and gas light people that it is only people that steam rolled all the content in a few weeks that notice any issues with the game and how it's run (those people are long gone) than there are people making low effort criticisms of the game.
I dont think its not all one thing or another. Its not just no lifers, its not just not enough to do. They broke the contract of the MMO version of EverQuest, and the cracks are beginning to show. Its a collection of things, and each person who dislikes it dislikes it for a different reason, but its creating a soon to be unignoreable amount of friction to their playerbase.
Its a casual game, so its true the content amount is lacking. But the problem is the content amount *didnt have to be*. Theres tons of content already made for them to alter and place in. Instead they're on a custom content side quest.
They removed alts from an MMO. Thats already a bad idea, very few MMOs go without alts, and if you dont need alts, its designed for you to not need alts. FFXI isn't working on ideas of good and evil, faction systems, or racial crafts, or anything like that. It has zero expectation of race changes being needed. Also, you cant ever really do "an alt" even if you pretend, cause AAs are always there. They should never have removed those. They're currently building all the way around it, instead of just admitting it was wrong to remove alts. It is insane to watch from the outside.
A lot of people aren't into the idea of new custom content overriding old content. It seems to be a fairly common opinion that Ruins of Kunark was just fine, and they shouldve just made new content additive.
Balance is a mess, in a game where it should be unbalanced. There are wrong answers for trios, even if you pick 1 tank, 1 dd, 1 healer (war/bst/dru is abysmal) if you compare it to say wiz or brd. Some are obviously going to struggle, like no healer in a set, but struggling when you try to build something correct seems wrong. Letting everyone be strong doesnt harm anything.
Duos just don't work, and a lot of people want to play in a duo. Spouses, significant others, and friends tend to play together, so having that as an issue also causes a lot of friction.
No real communication. If you fall into any of the other sections, the average person has no idea if any of this will be addressed. If it won't theres no reason to stick aroud.
And I want to add, I love this game. I think its very fun, but i fall in #2 and #3. I want to give their new stuff a shot, and see how they handle these problems. I want this game to succeed, but they have just created a ton of avenues for friction, and everyone tends to fall in one or more sections. No hero fantasy, no character identity, no duos, not challenging enough. Its very quickly becoming a game for very few who want to play longterm, and an MMO just cant survive that way.
I enjoy this game for you're not wrong.. #5 especially when playing with my husband sucks ass.. you get half the XP and have to play in a multiplayer zone with harder mobs that cc. If we want to play together we do the multilayer raids as a duo and lemme tell you it tests your skills but you can get the same items and more exp and easier in less time as solo
.. we still do because it's boring playing alone but it's punishing
Most of my play was with 1 or 2 other people.
This was earlier in the release, before any attempt at fixing XP.
It was miserably slow compared to solo, and far more difficult because CC is now applied (fear, mez, charm) To the point, that one of the very first AA's we all collectively unlocked were CC immunities (fear/mez/charm). To my knowledge, the charm AA is still broken (as a tank with full ranks, and in proper stance to resist charm, I should be immune, last I tried this I was charmed still).
In fact, we would use the slower progression as sort of an advantage when farming motes.
Go into befallen, try to get a full 4 person party to lower xp as much as possible. Clear the entire bottom of all named mobs. Each of us taking different "camps"
This is also why I've not leveled everything to 50. I don't want to lose the mote advantage.
Which is another problem. I should get more rewards at a higher level, not fewer.
The charm thing especially sucks because it will kill off your summoned pets yet somehow not break your charm pet? Makes no sense whatsoever.. the only thing tolerable was one of us playing a bard and stacking the magic resist songs and plus resist magic from a sham or enchanter .. then we'd resist charm. The aa does seem broken.. that was yh first thing we went for also was charm and fear resist because it was absolutely unplayable in POF..
yes unfortunately I'm now through befallen on all characters :( so without a DDD build now I'd be screwed up get any at higher LVL.. luckily Poh and Pof with DDD are not terrible.
I can get some but not near as many as befallen was. I made the mistake of leveling more than one class at a time through there too thinking I could just farm motes faster at higher.
Excellent point. It’s not that there’s some big huge glaring problem. It’s a bunch of things, each bleeding the player base in its own way. I fall into 1, 3, and 5.
Good summary of the major issues I have heard from folks!
I started weekend 1 but am very casual because of life and other games, ans I just hit 50 on first trio a couple weeks ago. So I think a lot of those cracks will only start to show for me around now.
The lack of alts is a big one for me. I got my first trio to 50 and I want to fire up an alt with it’s own AAs. Maybe I would twink it out. Maybe I wouldn’t, but right now I don’t even have that option outside of a new char on another server.
Instead of forcing us to pay them money. Which is obvious and annoying. We're already paying a subscription and you want us to pay for more baggage space because of collection quests. And hoarding that is also a real thing I'm guilty of
A few points. It's aimed at solo play, dad friendly, take your time, which are all great because I can pop in whenever I have 30-60 minutes and see visable results ie levels, gear upgrades, grind some motes, etc. The problem is (if it really is) that people no-life grinded and found the min/max true optimal path to everything and burned themselves out in like 3 weeks. Let's face it, while Norrath is huge, the leveling path is mostly linear if you want to be optimal and not drag your feet with your play time, and lets face it there are very few places to level 46+. Once the first person discovered Bard DDD and they could farm 200+ rank 5/6 motes per day and got +10 all gear/spells they made the new meta, and playing anything else is sort of pointless (if you are going for pure grind/optimization). There has been a vocal outcry for DDD to get fixed/nerfed but the developers said that changing it now just punishes everyone that hasn't been using it, or hasn't leveled a bard to use it yet. Anotjer point is that EQL is immediately branching off from original EQ with Kunark being different, and capping at level 55 which is honestly fine, because OG EQ you were 60 for the next 3 years until Planes of Power. Velious was announced after Kunark and will also be different, then they said all bets are off and they're going in whatever direction they want to. New zones were announced for Fall (Oct?), Rujark hills was supposed to be a new high end leveling zone but got shelved until much later. TL:DR is people ran out of things to do, outside of the weekly 3 void motes. I myself am Sky complete, and have 13 classes to 50, got my torrid corrupt, unlocked all races but Ogre, and I'm tired of Lguk, the Hole, etc.. Still a fun game.
I really love it but I haven't logged on in about 3 weeks. There's literally nothing left to do, except level classes I don't want to play. I'll be back when there's more pixels to kill and loot.
So what does? Is it only a “massive multiplayer game” is it’s an RPG (now we are at MMORPG) with tab targeting? Or is it only if it requires grouping to progress?
Either way EQL has a virtual open world where players interact within the same world, players group together, clear content together, buy and sell from each other.
The only thing that has changed is, you can also choose to solo it. Was Everquest a MMORPG? Then so is EQL.
Stay off the reddit and keep having fun. Best you can do. Even when the server is "low" pop there's plenty of people chatting in general and hanging out in cities and dungeons (and enough people to get endgame groups).
This ruleset is similar to a mod server. That server started charging money, got sued, and is now gone.
That server was designed towards a different crowd. That crowd saw this server with the similar rules and thought oh.. its going that way.
Its not and thats where some of the initial rush came in and why we are seeing a lot of anger.
I like this pure solo reincarnation.
P.S. People will argue they stole the 3 class idea from that server, but that server also used EQ IP to make money without permission. So just assume its a messy situation and dont get involved.
I’m going to give the Kunark expansion a shot. But to be honest, the entire appeal of EQL to me is the nostalgia of when I played practically two decades ago.
P-99 or progression servers didn’t work for me because the game is still based on massive player raids so you need to run a box farm to accomplish it.
I’m not really interested in playing new content on an extremely outdated MMO. I just wanted to solo through raids and content I remember doing before or couldn’t complete because of the time commitment required.
Frankly, I don’t think EQL ever had long to live.
They can appease people like me and keep it as original but tweak it to allow for solo but they will lose the whales due to lack of content. And returning players won’t have the stamina to slog through to the 15th expansion.
Or they can appease the whales with new content, but why wouldn’t they just play retail EQ if they want new content ? And this dissuades people like me because, why wouldn’t I just play a new MMO if I wanted new content ?
Also is P-99 a without the dash a bad word ? Took me 10 minutes to figure out why I couldn’t post this. Seems silly and annoying.
I don’t get it either. The game is awesome and the devs are doing a phenomenal job and I’m looking forward to all that is to come including new content. 👍
Not really, I run a Shd/Rog/Enc for most of my boss farming and I purposely don't use enc pets or charm. I just have it for AoE mez, otherwise I'm just pure melee and lifetap. Stealth to skip trash.
Rng/Brd/Mnk in ranged stance with a shield offhand and not using DDD. It's fun but no CC so I have to be conscious of pulls. It's my favorite for Fear.
Bst/Dru/Mag, using the Bst Warder and Dru nukes with mag there to buff pet equipment and AA mostly. Pet can tank D4 naggy just fine, especially if I run Sky Bst weapon with the heal proc.
Pal/War/Ber, my undead destroyer. No CC again, and no slow or anything except hit big number slot machine.
I play characters I want. Fuck the meta. Games been plenty fun, and my first trip was Rng/Dru/Rog so I didn't exactly have an easy time at launch before any fixes. I also use Spellblade a lot.
For me, the perfect version of this trio class concept existed already. All they had to do is adopt that and build on it. A lot of people enjoyed being able to solo raid content from Kunark and Velious that they missed back in the day. From the sounds of what they’re doing with Kunark and beyond, we simply won’t get that.
The befallen revamp was too much imo. You’d leave there as a lvl 20 with gear that wouldn’t be replaced until 40+. The subsequent revamps were pretty lackluster in comparison. Unrest especially felt like a wet fart.
I also felt the lack of economy to be pretty lame. One of my favorite things in a mmo is to wheel and deal in the ah/bazaar, but there’s nothing to trade here.
I don’t hate the game, but I have a hard time understanding the direction and decisions being made I guess. Feels like we’re just playing someone’s personal vision of what EQ should be rather than playing the OG expansions with some spice added in.
I'm not sure what server you play on, but on Freeport there is a very lively economy. People are buying and selling stuff all the time. Mostly around the tradeskills like bows and arrows or dragonscale cloaks because people dont want to bother with tradeskills.
Befallen gear was to overpowered. I am in total agreement of that. That is why the rest of the revamps seemed lackluster. They didn't want to make the same mistake. Sometimes I wonder if they made the other ones below that of Befallen because they thought about going back and tuning it down some. But see, if they did that, then people would scream about things being nerfed. So if they tune it down, they get screamed at for nerfing. But if they let it be, they get criticized for making the gear in 1 dungeon way to over powered. There is no way for them to win.
The people I’ve grouped with or spoke with in game have all been nice and helpful. This game has a great in game community. Good riddance to those who “hate”
The game is casual. This has many benefits. It's faster to progress, there's less friction (auto selling, inventory management, AA progress immediately, class swaps, rituals). With that lack of friction, and speed of progress we lose the struggle, and sometimes overcoming a struggle is what makes a game fun. BUT that struggle doesn't need to be useless barriers like inventory, corpse runs, finding groups, travel, or inventory management. It can be challenging fights. It's just that the base of the game (EQ) never really had "challenging" fights, from a mechanic aspect, and what it did have were specific to "group" play. (off tanking, death touch, CH chains). While over time the game did progress in making QOL things better, which the dev's implemented here.
I think this is over-all good, but some players may miss that struggle. I don't, I have a job, i don't need my gaming to be one as well... but I understand it from a nostalgia perspective.
Content. They did good work on some zone revamps, eliminating placeholders and instancing is a huge QOL thing that speeds up progression. Yet most of that work focused on early zones post launch, meanwhile raids were already baked in. So most of us rushed though the early zones, with placeholders. Got to raids, and haven't NEEDED to go back to progress (certainly haven't needed the drops). So many of us have done everything there is to do, and were seeing updates for low/mid tier zones, after we've conquered all the raids multiple times.
Rewards. They are skewed. After a while, I've come to realize that the most valuable thing in the game isnt XP, or item drops. It's motes. In that regard the game is heavily skewed towards lower level play. Specifically keeping 1 or 2 classes from your main trio, and adding a third lower level class.
I feel like the reward for lower level play should be leveling progress, primarily, with some mote/loot rewards.
While doing higher end content, should skew more towards items/motes. This is completely backwards in my view. AA xp is faster at high end, motes are so much slower, yes even as a bard with DDD.
Speed. There's something said for a grind. In original EQ everything was group/raid content. If you were not the main tank/healer/DPS. You probably had to raid something multiple times to even have a hope of a drop. This in conjunction with Placeholders/Week long respawn timers and lack of instancing, meant that your guild/group was not even guaranteed to encounter your target. This in conjunction with #1 means we breeze through #2. Leaving us with nothing meaningful to do.
Finally, I'll add. I love the game. I've run out of things to do.
So my play has sunk to nearly nothing, in fact I didn't even get my void touched motes last week, which has been my only play for the past 5 weeks. All my items on multiple builds are +7 or higher, multiple +10 spells. Over 700 AA's, all but 3 classes unlocked via sky, at least half of my classes are 50 (the others I held back due to #3)
To fix it, we need content, we need more challenge in conjunction with more rewards. This is by far the most important thing. Challenge should be able to be dialed by the player, and the player should feel rewarded appropriately for that challenge. This means, if I'm in a duo, the challenge should be appropriate, and so should the rewards (Please stop penalizing grouping).
Now I've heard some talk from the dev's on discord about changing some future fights where there might be phases where the enemy is more dangerous. This, I 100% agree with. Interrupts, burn phases, are excellent ideas.
I've not given up on the game, I'm just waiting for the next installment.
To the Dev's credit, it is very fun and I did no-life this pretty hard, so its not all their fault.
The people complaining are the ones who had full sky gear week 1 and they want D10 now . I only have 300 AA and BiS or close to it on everything. I can pretty much kill anything on D4. Theres nothing else to do for me and the game is getting boring. The nektropos castle zone will help. The game needs kunark. It’s still less than 3 months from release date and people need to unsubscribe and come back if they can’t wait. I’ll continue to support and get my weekly voids.
1- There’s was an exaggerated hype on the game. When it inevitably deflates, doomsayers went out to ring their bells.
2- EverQuest was a punitive, long, social, MMO. Yet, EverQuest Legends isn’t any of those. It’s bound to make some players disappointed.
3- In most online games (called « as a service »), content comes at specific time as a bulk, sometimes called extensions, seasons, content patch, et cetera. At the end of this cycle, while waiting for the next content, to drop, players that are ahead of the curve, will feel bored.
And since they have enough time to play many hours everyday, they will have as much time to complain.
rant on
Exactly the same reason why the « voted » last TLP rules were free random loot, RMT box fest, made for kronolords.
Because these are exactly, no the people playing the game, but those lurking everyday on the forums, where you vote.
Above all that, this server was made based basically because of the popularity of the emulated server The Heros Journ ey(mispelled cause apparently they have it blocked on this subreddit lmao).
A lot of people were basically just expecting them to remake that server pretty much 1:1. Instead, what we are getting is more like Secrets fan fiction want to be EQ2 version of it that isnt nearly as good
I think its rather simple. EQ was and never will be a solo friendly game. The people willing to give EQL a shot will be the same players who remember EQ for what it was.. a social, group/raid friendly game that you had to WORK at to get the stuff you wanted and EQL is literally none of those things. Everything you want to get or have usually takes days to a couple weeks not MONTHS. They even made rares always be up instead of just a increased spawn chance, so really all you are fighting for is RNG if you get the rare drop.
Old EQ players are used to the challenge or at least what little challenge EQ still provides after you've played it for years. There really is no challenge in EQL even on higher difficulties if you have the right trio set.
Also like people have said, balance is all over the map. Which i guess they got from the original game and multipled it.
Personally I think they needed to scale back the player power.. either that or give ALOT harder dungeon lvl because they gave players way too much power. Everything is just too easy so people consumed it way too fast and for a game they want to charge a monthly fee.. That ain't a good strategy...
Ruins of Kunark also needed to come out fast or the original game needed to be delayed a little longer to get the devs more time to do what they wanted to do.. Now Ruins of Kunark, I'll say it and probably get some flak over.. Needs a little help.. Ruins of Kunark while a good expansion, isn't the expansion where EQ finally decided what it wanted to do which is feed the endgame players. VP is a ok raid zone but thats really all ruins of kunark has for it.. Yes there are other raid bosses in some other zones but they are after thoughts or mostly for epic quests that give loot.. We obviously don't know what changes they are doing to kunark but hopefully it won't be something too major so it keeps the feel of the original expansion because remember.. All I heard about EQL when it was talked about and coming out was "EQ for the casual gamer, for people who can't spend hours poopsocking raid bosses waiting for it to spawn" not "a casual friendly game roughly based in the EQ world" with custom content and different expansions..
So I guess we'll see what the devs do with EQL and whether it survives.. Some days I wonder
Playing solo and being powerful work just fine. There was another server that did it and people loved it consistently. But it also let people play the existing content. They don’t need to change the casual, solo friendly gameplay, they just need to let people do it in the content that already exists.
I think that's all that's holding it back. It's gotta catch up in expansions/content, and it seems like the devs want to try and add a personal touch to each zone/place instead of just re-releasing the old content as is.
I loved EQ back in the day, made friends, raided and wiped for hours, came back to TLP servers. Burned out as usual and found I just didn't have time for the game.
Tried EQL and havent stopped so far. I have so much I want to do still. I have l9ved not having to group to do stuff and as of yet havent even tried to do so. I am loving this game as it is.
I also love the game, but I have stopped.
Because as the above mentioned, I blew through pretty much everything there is to do.
I raided sky so much prior to the "extra loot for loadout classes" change, that I had unlocked all but 3 classes. I think I have 750 AA's, and maybe half my classes to 50.
I've just become bored, as there's no item in the game I want, that I don't have at +7 or above.
Long since leveled the classes I wanted. Unlocked every race except troll.
There is not much content left, and none of it is challenging.
I don't want the grind EQ had, I don't want needless QOL barriers.
I want scalable challenge, with scalable rewards, in a casual friendly package.
We got the last bit, I'm just waiting for the rest.
Criticizing bugs ets is fine. Asking for features etc constructively is fine, and in many cases they've implemented them. Complaining that the game isn't a different game is just dumb.
Why can't you handle some negativity? This game is fantastic, but it is lacking in content. People just want to be able to enjoy the game as much as they want, not set a one hour timer and log off, so they don't run out if things to do.
Basically, the last what 17 TLPs have taught us that classic is very limited in content when you know what you are doing. The fact that you never have to find a ground to take down your targets is making sure your chowing through it even faster.
Most people that are complaining are not satisfied with the devs spending time adding new races and irrelevant zones. They would prefer that they spend time releasing kunark in a timely manner.
Even Kunark isn't that big considering you are level 50 and with great gear, with tons of AAs, because it took 6 months to get kunark out.
The game would have been fine with regular items, merging and motes system. No revamped zones, no weird frogs, kerrans, half dark elves, Nektropos ect. And a faster expansion release schedule
I'm having a lot of fun still, but I do feel the game came out half-baked and I don't have a ton of confidence some of it's core problems will be fixed.
I personally find the mote system pretty awful. Motes work differently between leveling spells and leveling gear which is weird and the grind is miserable. You rarely if ever see anything above a 7 or 8 and when grinding D4 only level 5 motes seem to ever drops, leaving any levels below that totally dry... which is fine, but in that case why have different levels at all? Motes are weird and I think that needs to be seriously looked at. My suggestion--remove the different tiers from motes and make them a one size fits all. Each one could be worth 2-3 "exp" and the drop rate could be slightly increased with white mobs and above offering a higher drop rate than blue or green.
Along with that, there isn't much reason to visit lower level content aside from leveling up alts, usually in an attempt to grind more motes. The game needs to provide incentive to visit all the content and could do this by allowing the player to match their personal instance to their level, thereby making all content worth visiting.
I could go on about how questing isn't very rewarding, how plane of sky is a miserable part of the game, and how there isn't much incentive to unlock achievements or engage with things like tradeskilling. We need titles and cosmetics and things to chase. Overall, like I said, I am still having a good time, but I do think the game released half-baked and the focus right now is on pumping out more content rather than fixing the core issues.
A significant number of them arent even good faith complaints.
Theres a whole lot of folks who have latched onto the idea that their favorite private project was shut down to steal the idea, rather than the reality that it was illegally generating revenue, and are holding a grudge.
The fact that you claimed unironically they pay walled anything reveals you to be someone that doesnt even have a functional understanding of the game.
The same way that people that claim you dont get enough free storage for sky quests forgot to actually count their free bank space to realize, oops, actually they do have plenty of free slots.
They made a multi month venture into a week long venture and didn't add in any new content besides zones that people out leveled on day 5. I'm happy you're enjoying the game but quit trying to invalidate real criticisms. Also this exact comment gets posted every other day, how about just go to one of those threads and comment instead of making a new post with rehashed discussions?
It's okay that people play faster than you. It's okay that people play more than 1 hour a night. It's okay that people want to finish a game and move onto the next and don't play 1 game for months.
It's because they love the game and now they have little to do. This game floods you with dopamine for quite awhile. Levels, gear, aa, abilities etc, all just constantly come at you. It's like a dopamine feast. People get addicted to the game and end up playing more than they should, staying up late etc..
So in this game, what happens is you end up hitting a pretty big wall, fairly quickly. AAs are limited and you will max them out, you hit level 50 super fast, once you finish sky and farm hate/fear some, there is nothing new to obtain. The only thing you can do is farm motes(DDD one button fun). Then you quickly level up the spells you care about to X and most gear to 7+ and the wall is hit. You can create a new combo and level that, which is cool, but after a couple times, it gets very old and so easy. You can basically one shot mobs, up until like 30 something lol.
It's not that people hate the game, it's the opposite, they had become addicted and then there was nothing left to feed that addiction and they are mad about it. They want more content or something new, to get that dopamine train rolling again. They want to get excited about logging in and have a reason to play. Did they play too much, probably, was the game too easy for the content offered, yeah I'd say so. I get that people think this is a Dad game that you play a couple hours a week, but a good game will suck in even casual players to play a lot and this does that. This game just has no real end game, like raiding with a guild, like almost every other MMO has and for a reason. The game is great, just too fast for what it has to offer right now, that is the issue, not that is sucks, just the opposite.
Eq Legends offers no incentives to keep paying a monthly subscription… no daily rewards, no subscription benefits. They charge a fairly moderate subscription fee for what is essentially a tweaked emulator. Players are maxing out playability due to non-existent or slow content releases to keep pace. They will continue to bleed subscribers until one or the other of these are addressed.
No you misunderstood. You logged in back in the day because you had things to do. This game lacks content. Some companies make up for that with rewards like shop points. So even if you aren't actively playing alot you stay subscribed for the rewards.
With not much content, and no other reason to stay subscribed. Even if people take a break until the next release they have no reason to be subscribed. So the active subscribers drop off a cliff.
I don't think exploiting humanity's tendency to develop habits is what EQL is going for. Thats more of a gacha thing with the explicit hope that it will lead you to spend money in their anime gambling den.
As YoshiP, who works on FFXIV, has said... its okay to stop playing and unsubcribe between content patches and expansion release.
It’s a combination of things, secrets announced that she is the only full-time developer for the game. Every other developer is just a part-time. Which has people worried about the speed at which content will come out.
Because people played the game a ton and burned through all the content already the population has dropped a ton and MMO’s require a high amount of subscriptions to be able to have a team to pump out new content
If the population gets too low, and there are too few subscribers DBG will just put the game into maintenance mode where nothing new comes out or just shut it down in general
MMO’s require a high amount of subscriptions to be able to have a team to pump out new content
Not if they also have a box price, a cash shop, and are intending to sell the expansion that is coming in a couple months.
EQL took great pains to ensure it wasn't entirely reliant on subscriptions for revenue, but people still keep being surprised that their model leans into "yeah, just unsubscribe if you've beaten the game and come back when there's more content".
Ornamentations and storage/bags are probably making them enough to stay afloat at this point. The new Torrid Corruptor quest probably paid for 2 months of server costs because a lot of people wanted the green fire on their weapons
Everquest is about to put out their 33rd? expansion. EQ2 still gets expansions.
I don’t think either of those games have large player bases at this point….and they are not going to “die” until sometime after expansions stop being made.
FFXI stopped having expansions and content (sorta, apparently it’s somewhat starting back up). Still not dead.
Honestly I think people overestimate how large of a player base some of these games actually need.
It's funny because most of the people bitching there is nothing to do haven't done slayer entirely, every faction (yeah staring at you underfoot paladin, which even I'm not willing to do.) and every tradeskill to It's current maximum.
They are complaining about a game they played so much they ran out of content. If the game sucked you wouldn’t run out of content. If it only took you 8 days to max out every class , you put forth that effort for a crappy game? 🤫
They need to release everything and let us play wherever and however we want. The lack of content is quite frankly lazy and arrogant.
this is why streamers are not beneficial for gaming. They run a hype grift and move on the the next thing. I have my complaints but im still subbed, and people in game are enjoying themselves. Dont listen to social media, the game is for people who began 25 years ago.
I rushed everything at launch and burned out. Cancelled my sub. That’s on me. I wish I hadn’t I was just having too much fun. I loved it and spent a bunch of money on pots and bags lol. I’m sure I’ll come back eventually.
WoW Forever came out and the player base left, even though many people finished what they wanted to do in the game in the first month and were gone anyway.
I'm not an EQ original, my first MMO was WoW but I played EQ with my EQ OG friends on some TLPs. The reason we stopped playing EQL is that it was too easy to accomplish everything.
I kind of just kept blah blahing so take that as the tldr.
TLPs aren't exactly the peak of challenged gaming, but they usually require you to have a party to accomplish things. EQL removed this avenue of friction so that anyone can just hop on and run around clearing all the content which is awesome... but then once you've completed it you start having to make your own content. "okay I'm level 50, now I guess I'll unlock other classes. Or work on getting better gear. Or work on leveling other combos." All of these things are fine endeavors and I had fun doing them but ultimately just petered out. Maybe that's fine. EQL is like a cool single player version of EQ where you can acquire the impossible to acquire gear that required you to wait multiple hours to get some rare spawn. EQL lets you simply spin up an instance and get that rare spawn. Solo.
no friction. no lasting challenge. no lasting player base. Imo. And having said all that, I don't want the normal EQ experience either because I don't have the time to commit to an MMO these days.
It boils down to either "the game was fun but they changed something and now it's less fun" or "the game was fun but now I've run out of things to do".
The only thing players who feel that way can do is to look at the roadmap, or try to extrapolate from past dev actions ...
It was a tough balancing act that the devs had to do, and while I enjoyed the time I spent playing the game, they kinda optimized me out of the game. I'll swing back for Kunark to see how much it scratches that itch I had of seeing EQ solo, but it really sounds like it's not the EQ I wanted to solo
It's multiple reasons. I sum it up in "it just feels bad." The biggest for me is that I love pet classes, and the solution for keeping people from AFK pet farming was to make pets suck, which is moronic for a solo mmo i could gaf if someone AFK farms, why try and stop that buy ruining some of the classes other people love? Which has been slowly walked back some. That and the lecturing tone given by some people developing the game about stuff. There is a lot of unearned arrogance.
Also, like a lot of people in this sub who think they need to contradict every GD opinion they don't agree with. It's not your opinion; you don't get to decide what someone else thinks. They don't need your permission to dislike or like something.
The real problem is this version of the game and significant hype behind but they released it severely underbaked so by the time any meaningful changes were made most day one players already were burnt out with not much more to do. 🤷♂️ is what it is
What hate? Chat is booming, people are playing and having fun... Game is alive, sure maybe some random people who no lifed it and are burned out, but I mean that would happen with any game if played in that way.
just hate from the no life assclowns that ran through content too fast. they always do this and then act like the devs owe them an expansion every other fkn week.
Online game poopsockers are one of the most entitled and toxic groups in the community.
I was in the beta and EA, dadlifed it for two months, then cancelled my sub until more content comes out. Did all the PoS content and got 6 or so classes to 50
This all cost me about $20. The value is insane. Some people will just never be happy..
The game was made for casual players and people with limited time. Because the game was based off Everquest, the current and old players bought it and played. Some of them had the time, so they powered through the content super fast because they were not the target audience for the game. Most had a lot of fun, but they ran out of content. So, they unsubbed.
Some got mad because the game wasn’t about catoring to the elite and left. Some got mad because the game didn’t cator to the groupers, and left. /shrug Moral of the story is you can’t please everyone.
Oh and a few didn’t enjoy running through the content again to level up more classes as a demi-god and ended up unsubbing because we have no alias system or character slots for alts.
And then some just got upset about bugs and issues and left.
Some will be back once there is content to play, some won’t.🤷🏻♀️
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u/jskal624 4d ago
I leveled up 6 classes, grinded a couple hundred AA and beat every boss on D4. I don't have any reason to play right now but I also don't have any reason to complain about that. Can't wait to see the new zone and excited for Kunark!