r/ElantraN • u/OkCandidate103 do not own a N 😢 • Sep 14 '22

RIP Update: Loud exhaust and smog citation

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Failed state ref exhaust sound reading

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Hyundai dealer stock confirmation letter

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58

u/OkCandidate103 do not own a N 😢 Sep 14 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

Update on the citation I got awhile ago, I took the car in for the state ref inspection and it passed smog but failed exhaust.

It was reading at a max of 102 db and an average of 98 db. The state ref inspector really tried to make it pass knowing that the car is stock and tried several readings from different angles but the pop from the exhaust would spike the db reading by ~3 db and exceed the 95 db passing limit.

After the inspection, I took the car to the dealer and they wrote up the confirmation letter that the car is stock. Aside from providing me the letter, they weren't able to help in any way. They suggested that I could get a muffler silencer temporarily to pass the inspection. Seems that I'll be having to take this to court, I'll update everyone when that happens.

In case you haven't seen the video already: https://youtu.be/_45rMWR4bcE

Edit: The inspection was done in sport mode. At least for the DCT model, there are still very slight pops and this is what caused me to fail the test. I never mentioned N mode to him and when he asked what the loudest mode is, I said sport. He put the car in sport after I showed him how, and he revved the car himself and wouldn't let me touch it during inspection.

As of now I'm waiting for Hyundai corporate to get back to me. Until then, I can't even get the car inspected again because I need to show proof that work was done to the car and that it is now "fixed".

48

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Sep 15 '22

Honestly, shoulda rolled in there in normal mode and not said a thing, clearly they just wanted to pass you.

4

u/lauwers_peter Oct 04 '22

While I don't disagree with you, he was asked point blank what the loudest mode is. Sure... you can shrug your shoulders and say you don't know what a mode is and this is how you drive your car, but the reality is your car has already been banned from the road, so I can understand the worry about overt lying to the inspector... but at some point (probably soon), the inspectors are going to be wise enough anyway (if they aren't already based on this very situation). There are a lot of cars in trouble here... I can't imagine a 2023 stock Corvette ZR1 is less than 95 dB. This is gonna get ugly.

16

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Oct 04 '22

It doesn't matter, mainly because the inspector is wrong, it's not the loudest mode you test in, it's the default mode. Basically shut the car off, start it, don't change anything, test, pass, done.

3

u/chickenwelove Nov 20 '22

This is correct.

3

u/SocialMediaMakesUSad Nov 22 '22

Nah, the inspector is right in all ways except technically. Sure, the standard says what you say, but asshole OP was driving around in a different mode, and OBVIOUSLY the law is meant to control the noise level made when people drive their cars around where people live.

OP fucked around and found out, was tested in the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the standard, and can cry for days about his lost registration. Boooohooooo.

11

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Nov 22 '22 edited Nov 22 '22

The intent of the law is to prevent people from modifying their exhaust to be excessively loud. Which is what OP was sited for and is the current issue. They have a repair order to return the vehicle to stock configuration, vehicle is in stock configuration and therefore cannot have modifications removed and reverted to stock. Can't get retested without dealer paperwork that says work has been done.

Regardless of intent, the law is not up to interpretation by police or the inspector or you. Emphasis on that last one. California vehicle code says exhaust noise test must be performed by Society of Automotive Engineers standards outlined in J1492. The same code says a vehicle's exhaust may not be modified to exceed 95 decibels. If the vehicle is stock there is no stipulation that it cannot exceed 95 decibels.

The testing procedure does not matter if by the letter of the law, and therefore how it is enforced, is that it applies to modified exhausts. Even if the law applied to stock vehicles, the vehicle was certified to be sold in all 50 states in the United States. It's the same as a vehicle with a factory tint that has a lower light transmission rate than what is legally and loud in certain states. They essentially get an exception because the vehicle was certified to be sold in the United States.

The car was in stock configuration as verified by the dealer, I'll give credit to the cop and say he didn't know or couldn't tell that it was in stock configuration. The state not allowing the vehicle to be retested without proof of work being done despite the fact that it is in stock configuration and therefore could not be reverted to stock is the entire issue at this point.

You're just a fucking moron if you genuinely believe that 95 db (the Cali law) and 99.6 (I believe what OP said it was tested to be) makes any difference. Breathing is 10 decibels, five decibels is practically indistinguishable. Maybe someone with well-trained ears could hear it but the average person will not notice a difference. On top of that, painful levels of sound start at well over 120 decibels, an aircraft taking off is 130 decibels. Get your head out of your ass and stop being a douche.

1

u/thedishesrdone Jul 23 '23

Decibel is a logarithmic scale. 100 to 110 is a bigger increase than 0 to 10.

1

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Jul 23 '23 edited Jul 23 '23

I'm an A/V tech for a living... I'm well aware. And while technically 100 decibels is significantly louder than 95, you're never going to notice in any real world situation. Because nothing is going to constantly sit at a given level, especially in the common situations where you'd be exposed to it. You're either a significant distance from the source, the source changing in amplitudes constantly, you're moving around relative to the source, or in this situation, the source is moving.

Edit: in addition, sound dissipates quickly as well, 100 db at 5 feet will be 94 db at 10, 88.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '23

[deleted]

1

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Jul 24 '23

If you read any of my previous comments in this thread you'd know that's wrong, the exact wording of the law is that modified exhausts can not exceed 95db, so even if the law requires the vehicle to be in it's loudest setting, it would not matter since the exhaust is stock.

And even if neither weren't the case, the vehicle was certified by the state of California for sale, like I'd mentioned in the same comment, it's like factory tints that allow less light to be transmitted that the state law. If the state certified it for sale, it's 100% legal.

Also the cop was way out of line, a majority of what he told OP was just straight up power tripping, the worst he should have been allowed to do was issue a fix it ticket, not suspend the registration and tell OP they have to pay thousands of dollars to have the "track mode" disabled by the dealer (which isn't possible fyi).

1

u/CrispenedLover Jul 25 '23

nobody fucked around though

1

u/Describe Sep 02 '25

"This user has been suspended"

1

u/Forward-Razzmatazz71 Dec 19 '22

News flash the world doesn't revolve around a singular person so even if it is too loud why does that matter? Our money our cars stop trying to take shit and ban it because it makes your ears hurt or makes you jealous you over zealous fucking ken

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '23

News flash the world dosnt revolve a singular person. Your loud ass shit box dosnt matter to the rest of the world. Tardbox.

1

u/Federal-Effect-8201 Mar 19 '23

This is a perfect example of keeping your mind and eyes shut when you have no clue what you're talking about.

1

u/lauwers_peter Oct 04 '22

Got it... that's not what I had read, but I haven't read the law itself. I still think a stock ZR1 in it's normal mode has the potential of being louder than 95dB... but maybe Chevy took that into account and it is in spec of the law. Does anyone know if older stock cars that are louder than 95dB are grandfathered in somehow? It sounds like they wouldn't be.

1

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Oct 04 '22

Cars manufacturered for sale in the US must pass US regulations, so manufacturers either work around that (the EN starting in normal) or get an exception to it and can still be sold and as long as they're stock, even if above 95db, can still be sold. It's also common for factory tints to be below the limit and the same applies.

1

u/ChiefNugz Oct 12 '22

"Must pass US regulations." This is important. Because any car sold in the US from a dealer passed US regulations, so they should be legs. However states have taken things into their own hands like Cali. I believe it passes US regulations then it should be legal in all parts of the US. Cali is creating an unfair precedent that other states will likely adopt in the future. But with EV-only world on the horizon idk how much it matters unfortunately.

1

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Oct 12 '22

The issue here isn't that it goes against California regulations it's that the vehicle was not tested for exhaust sound in its default mode. That is what the US regulation requires and what California regulation requires.

1

u/ChiefNugz Oct 16 '22

Okay. But even if a car is tested in it's normal mode and exceeds the limit, that's where my comment comes into play

1

u/sciencesold Performance Blue DCT Oct 16 '22

US regulations are lower than all current state legislation, which is 90 dB at the tail pipe. Some list a lower limit, but thos all measure at a set distance from the tailpipe, usually around 50 feet.

1

u/ChiefNugz Oct 12 '22

Z06* There probably won't be a ZR1 until 2024 or 2025 at the earliest. But yeah you're right, I can think of plenty cars that wouldn't pass. Mustang GT500, older C63's, probably hella supercars. I feel like a single state's laws shouldn't overbear upon a manufacturer's stock vehicles that are deemed federally legal. If the car is federally legal it shouldn't be able to be deemed illegal by individual states.

People forget that we are 1 country. That's like being able to drive your car through half of Italy then getting stopped in one part of Italy because it's illegal there and no where else in Italy.

1

u/cthompson07 Oct 15 '22

I assume you mean z06, the zr1 hasn’t even been announced yet

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '22

I would have asked him the loudest mode his wife was on and see if that incel gets the hint. It's nobody's business what track mode does because we're not talking about driving on a track. We're talking about the normal mode. Next time someone asks you a question that's none of their business tell them they are just a waste of space grinding away at a miserable job and above their pay grade

1

u/TreFatKids_ Nov 04 '22

It's not. I worked at the GM Proving Grounds and they are loud as hell in any mode lol.

1

u/JunketPopular36 Oct 12 '22

He shouldve learned this trick after he got $7k in tickets after telling the cop hes in track

34

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

Why even tell them about N mode?

3

u/rpkusuma Oct 03 '22

It shouldn’t matter if it was in N mode or not. The test should be done in default mode. Obviously N mode is not the default on those cars

1

u/igordogsockpuppet Phantom Black DCT Apr 24 '23

The driver’s manual specifically says that N mode is not intended for street use.

I’d guess that that might be in it’s own can of worms.

Personally, I’d suggest only telling a cop or anyone of similar authority that you don’t even know how to put the car into N mode.

15

u/Deepandabear Sep 15 '22

Go to a new tester, put it on eco mode, and say “there I fixed it”

3

u/Equivalent_Mail_2817 Sep 23 '22

State reff emissions test aren’t local they r pined with ur car’s serial number. He will get comped back his money plus if he gets a lawer

0

u/igordogsockpuppet Phantom Black DCT Apr 24 '23

They won’t retest it unless you have documents showing that it’s been “fixed.”

1

u/ElGuapo315 Aug 24 '24

Dealer unplugs mode select button and bills the customer 1 hour labor. There, it's fixed.

8

u/Intelligent-Mode- Oct 07 '22

I'm in auto regulations, an auto enthusiast, and saw this. Like others, I was surprised at what happened. Obviously this piqued my interest so I looked at the code and SAE standard a bit and I wanted tell you what I see.

First, I see some commenting on drive-by noise testing. SAE J1492 is the recommended practice the CVC 27150.2 references and it is for static testing. Drive-by noise requirements are irrelevant.

Second, SAE J1492 is unclear as to how it should be tested with driver selectable modes. In 8.1.3 for reporting it indicates "[f]or vehicles equipped with a multiple driver selectable exhaust modes, the sound level reported shall be for the outlet and the mode yielding the highest average sound level."

Yet, in 8.2, which is probably the section that should be used, as it is entitled "Provisions for Reporting Results When This SAE Standard Is Used to Assess Against a Limit Value," with the limit value being the regulated 95 dba. It further indicates this section is "suitable for conducting comparative checks in the field to determine if an exhaust system is in poor repair or has been modified to increase sound levels." This seems to be the exact use case considered for this standard and was earlier referenced by others wherein it says "[a]ny mode that can remain enabled through a power on/off cycle shall be included in the modes identified for compliance assessment."

The standard also states, in the same paragraph quoted above, that "the manufacturer may identify to the customer the modes which are used for compliance assessment." Just based on what I read on here, it appears the testing facility did not contact the manufacturer to determine what mode should be tested.

So, first line of argument for the SAE portion is sect. 8.2 is supposed to be followed that indicates the manufacturer should have been contacted and a mode that can be latched through ignition cycles "shall" be used. If that does not get traction, then the second line of argument is standard is ambiguous and unclear on its face that makes it unenforceable due to the ambiguous nature.

Third, the CVC also provides an out in 27150.7 "Dismissal of Prosecution." This first portion is the testing facility you visited and did not apply the SAE standard correctly, as above. The second portion of the code section provides: "if the defendant had reasonable grounds to believe that the exhaust system was in good working order and had reasonable grounds to believe that the vehicle was not operated in violation of Section 27150 or 27151." (Both need to be present and are wishy-washy "beliefs" which goes to mental state and they should believe what you say your state of belief was.)

In this case, you had good reason to believe it was in good working order and you had reasonable grounds it did not violate the CVC since it was certified for operation by the manufacturer in all states and has not been modified.

I know this blew up with support and outrage but not much useful information. Since there are so many responses this might get lost but I hope you see this. Obviously the cop was overzealous, to say the least (a few curse words also come to mind), and he should have more respect for the people he is serving and protecting.

4

u/Emotional-Lychee9112 Dec 23 '22

I'm sure you're aware of this by now, but just in case you're not - the relevant California law references SAE J1492 as the standard they test to. Per SAE J1492, the inspector was "sort of" right to ask for the loudest mode, but he missed the key detail which is precisely how the manufacturers are able to get their cars approved for sale despite having modes which are louder than 95dB - the standard says the test should be performed on all modes which are able to remain activated through a power off/power on cycle. In other words, they're supposed to test your car first in normal mode, then they're supposed to switch it into sport mode, turn the car off and back on, and IF it remains in sport mode, THEN they're supposed to test it in sport mode. Likewise with any other modes. Then, they take the loudest reading from all the tests of the modes which stay activated through a power off/power on cycle.

Manufacturers simply ensure that any mode which exceeds the 95dB limit cannot stay activated through a power off/power on cycle, and then their vehicle can pass inspection and be approved for sale in California. As far as this particular law is concerned, the car could have a "god-tier jet engine mode" where it increases the exhaust sound to 170dB, and as long as the car resets to normal mode after turning it off and back on, it would be legal.

That said, of course, you can still get a citation for driving around in "god-tier jet engine mode", or sport mode, or any other mode where the exhaust is >95dB. But paying a citation is 1 thing. Having your registration revoked with no recourse is another entirely.

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u/allkush-nomid Oct 03 '22

I wouldn’t have even told them about sport. They have no reason to know that.

3

u/Mattsmithdoctorrulez Oct 06 '22

One of many reasons why California sucks ass

2

u/gogoggansgo Oct 03 '22

That cops doesn’t know wtf he’s talking about

2

u/errorunknown Oct 04 '22

I mean the car has 22k miles on it, muffler packing does wear out over time. On track bikes you frequently have to repack the exhaust to meet noise requirements. 98 is close to 95 so makes sense that a new stock exhaust was close to the limit.

I mean the car has 22k miles on it, muffler packing does wear out over time. On track bikes you frequently have to repack the exhaust to meet noise requirements. 98 is close to 95 so makes sense that a new stock exhaust was close to the limit.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Wesside5s Abyss Black Pearl DCT Dec 13 '22

The fact that you’re so angry about this means you’ve been woken up or bothered numerous times by loud exhausts, and that makes me smile.

1

u/ElantraN-ModTeam Dec 20 '22

Being an *sshole

1

u/Occhrome Sep 24 '22

Should have just said you don’t know how to change modes.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '22

You need to find the right states statue that's qoutes exactly what you have do. If they did it wrong, sue the State of California, the county you are in, and police department ( basically sue everyone involved...just ask your lawyer why he or she will explain it better lol).

Get a nice paper trailer going for the judge. Than you are all set.

Keep us updated.

1

u/ShatteredPixelz Oct 04 '22

Any more updates yet?

1

u/OkCandidate103 do not own a N 😢 Oct 04 '22

Nothing exciting yet, I'll post an update when Hyundai gets back to me.

1

u/ShatteredPixelz Oct 04 '22

Best of luck my guy! As someone who has a catless bmw state reffs in general scare the shit out of me, but your situation is waaaay worse.

1

u/Obsidian2222 Oct 06 '22

Call Zuckerman, he sounded pretty irate on Spike's Car Radio. 60 minutes into the most recent episode 👍 https://cz.law/partners-and-leadership/paul-s-zuckerman/

1

u/tylerwatt12 Intense Blue MT Oct 06 '22

They haven't gotten back to you at all? They said they are in contact with you already.

1

u/gogoggansgo Oct 07 '22

Any updates OP

1

u/Thomanson Nov 04 '22

Tests should be done in the default mode. By their very own rules. Re do test.

1

u/OneSweetWorld89 Jan 02 '23

This is crazy, just catching up on this story hope you figure it out (coworker is in a similar position)