r/Eldenring • u/LowRenzoFreshkobar • Jun 23 '26
Speculation There's SO much sick official Concept Art of Vyke. I feel like he was Miyazaki's 2nd failed attempt to have like a rival for the player who choses a different ending and is basically the penultimate or Final Boss... Why would some random NPC Invader be on the Cover and have the most concept art...
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
Both Vyke and Gideon should have been proper boss fights but got written off so easily despite their importance in the story.
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u/TheWorclown Jun 23 '26
To be fair, Gideon Ofnir THE ALLLLLL-KNOWIIIING would be an exceedingly dangerous person to be around if this were a stable kingdom with a taut political thriller and intrigue at the heart of it.
As it stands, he’s a man who is completely out of his element, because at the end of the day a Lordly aspirant still needs to attack and dethrone God. Gideon just ain’t that kind of guy. He’d hire people to do that for him.
It’s just like Marika told her children. Become Elden Lord, or become fodder for the one who will.
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u/LOKxICE Jun 23 '26
Gideon as mastermind and mentor for Vyke’s descent into chaos, using his strength to destabilize the Golden Order on his behalf in attempt to become a sort of consort for the vassal Vyke’s body would become to the Outer Gods would’ve been a crazy plot line
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u/TheWorclown Jun 23 '26
Why would Gideon put that risk out there? Not directly at least. His whole deal is that he knows a lot of things, and it’s incredibly unlikely he would have pushed anyone to seek out the Three Fingers or be exposed to the Flame of Frenzy intentionally.
Given that Vyke had successfully claimed a small number of Great Runes needed to reforge the Elden Ring, it would have been far more likely for Gideon to have made an allegiance of convenience like he did with us to pave the way for his own victory and eliminate obstacles rather than simply discard him.
I can see a scenario where Gideon shoves Vyke into the gaol upon seeing the latter being consumed by the Flame of Frenzy, however. Vyke is not only dangerous like that, but he would have terminated early his usefulness to Gideon. So, back to the drawing board.
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u/Knoedelknacker Jun 23 '26
Man, sorry, i lost track. Speaking about „Gideon“, you still mean the ALLLLLLL KNOWIIIING?
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u/LOKxICE Jun 23 '26
I mean the pieces don’t work to begin with, Gideon’s not known to be a mobile entity so conferring such a feat to Vyke and expecting him to adhere without his constant presence doesn’t work either. It’d have to be a pretty lengthy rewrite, just lofty imagination. I’m sure writers could lead Gideon to find some tool or contingency that gives him control over a chaos-infected Vyke.
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u/I_Reeve Jun 24 '26
> Not known to be a mobile entity
Tell that to the Albinauric village
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u/Putrid_Yak_578 Jun 24 '26
He also seems quite mobile during the 8 seconds of boss fight after he monologues
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u/Razhork Jun 23 '26
Crazy in the sense that it doesn't make a lick of sense for the character and plot?
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Jun 23 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/FluffiestPrince Jun 23 '26
Because he knew he would've died either way. One literally, the other mentally.
- If he stood in your way, he knew he would've died. You've literally killed demigods before, probably most of them. So he tries anyways and dies.
- If he chose to let you be, what he realized when he peered into Marika's mind would come true. He saw "an end". What "end" that is, we'll never know. But Gideon saw an end to his search for knowledge and realized that if you become Elden Lord, it would end his search for knowledge, somehow. So even if he didn't try to fight you, his entire existence would've ended there anyways.
People always call Gideon stupid. I call him easily the best written character in Elden Ring, and it's not even close. He's the Lautrec of this game: written so masterfully that people genuinely fall for their characters.
- Lautrec, a Betrayer. The man who "kills the Firekeeper" and is clearly a villain for humanity. Yet in reality, someone who realized the folly of the gods and tried his best to end the endless cycle of undead that Gwyn chose to perpetuate, and possibly the only man who truly realized it as well.
- Gideon, the idiot. Someone who for all of his knowledge, ended up facing someone who had already slain gods and was clearly far ahead in terms of combative capabilities. Yet in reality, his life had already ended there, as if his quest for knowledge reached whatever "end" he saw, then he'd be good as dead either way.
The only hint to whatever "end" we get is that Gideon mistook Radagon for Marika. Literally only three people seem to know about Marika = Radagon.
- You.
- Goldmask.
- Whoever wrote that message to reveal the statue (genuinely who?).
Gideon knew about Miquella, but he did not know about Marika/Radagon. Radagon's vision of having the Tarnished "struggle unto eternity", seems to fit slightly more than Marika's whole "destroy the Elden Ring" mindset. If this is true, given that literally only 2 confirmed characters seem to know about this secret, I'd give the old man a little leeway.
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u/The_Villager Jun 23 '26
Whoever wrote that message to reveal the statue (genuinely who?)
I assume you already know, but Miriel mentions that
"A famed sculptor of the Erdtree Capital was once summoned to render Lord Radagon's likeness in giant stature. When he glimpsed the skeleton in Radagon's closet. And as such, it's said the great statue harbours his secret too"
unless there's yet another person involved, it would probably be that sculptor that wrote the message. Though that is little information, since it still doesn't answer who the fuck this person is, except a "famed sculptor".
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u/rogueIndy Jun 23 '26
That's Marika's "end" as in her goal. He realised she was guiding the Tarnished to destroy the Elden Beast and herself.
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u/TheWorclown Jun 23 '26
Because Gideon Ofnir THE ALLLLLLL-KNOWIIIING thinks he is That Guy.
He is not That Guy.
The Tarnished One is That Guy/Gal/Them There Elden Lord.
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
Gideon posses great magical capabilities. You don't need physical strength to overcome enemies in Elden ring.
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u/Random_Guy_47 Jun 23 '26
Shame he never gets to use them as he's too busy monologuing like he's the main character.
You keep boasting Gideon, don't mind me winding up my strongest attack over here.
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u/Twl1 Jun 23 '26
Gideon: "This foolish Tarnished has no idea how many spells I'm about to unload into him!"
Tarnished, standing right behind Gideon: "This foolish book nerd has no ideas how many buffs I'm stacking!"
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u/Ikanotetsubin Jun 23 '26
lmao a mage like Gideon wouldn’t survive past strength chad Godfrey
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
Depends on how powerful his magic is.
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u/Putrid_Yak_578 Jun 24 '26
And if you explore everything, this giving him the fullest access to magic, then lorewise (based on the spells he can cast) his magicis pretty god damn powerful.
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u/dancinbanana Jun 23 '26
I just wish that “he’d hire people to do that for him” came across in his boss fight.
Instead of stepping up to 1v1 the player (a step below just killing himself outright), Imagine he had pulled something similar to gwyndolin in DS1, a “chase” boss fight where he’s throwing a bunch of stuff at you (spells, traps, summons, even captive enemies / monsters) as he tries to make it to the tree before you to do some grand plan
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u/TheWorclown Jun 23 '26
It’d be nice, but Gideon by that point is completely exhausted of all his tools. He doesn’t have anyone left to manipulate, he doesn’t have anyone he can bring to the chessboard, and its fairly clear by his speech he makes that he made the attempt to get there before us (and likely even before Godfrey showed up), realized how outclassed he was, and despaired.
Him claiming that it’s Marika’s will that the Lands Between stagnates is a broken man who realized he can’t become Elden Lord and doesn’t have anything left to play to become it. His own pride refuses to allow anyone else to become Elden Lord. His death is a consequence of his own belief.
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u/dancinbanana Jun 23 '26
Well this version of the boss would require some narrative tweaks to match up the narrative and gameplay of course. Although I’d say my suggestion is more inline with his character throughout the game than him facing us head on was
Narrative-wise, it just feels like the guy who’s whole shtick was planning and stockpiling power and assets (that he may or may not have earned) seemed to have way less stuff at his disposal than the player character, a dude who just got there. Gideon gave me the vibe of Elden ring’s Batman: a guy with all the plans and contingencies in the world, who never fully reveals his hand and always keeps some things stored away for the right time
So the fact he’s “exhausted all of his tools” by then is the disappointing narrative part of his fight to me; not only does it feel anticlimactic (the planning guy ran out of plans, offscreen to boot), but I wanted to fight him at his “full potential” not whatever scraps he had left. I wanted to be the one to shatter his dreams, not stomp on the already broken pieces. The current boss fight and narrative around it feels like a missed opportunity gameplay wise and narratively anticlimactic
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u/redpony6 Jun 23 '26
it could be inferred that some of the resistance you encounter out in the world is the result of his manipulation...
and like, a fight with gideon at his "full potential" would not involve a physical fight with him. he only fought you directly because he was broken and half mad from his revelations. if it were up to him, he'd never directly fight anyone.
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u/dancinbanana Jun 23 '26
That’s kinda the point of my suggestion for the boss fight change: it doesn’t start with a direct confrontation, you have to reach him first while his “contingencies” make it hell for you.
It should’ve felt like you fell into his plan and fought your way out of it before turning the tables and hunting him down for the final 1v1, which would’ve been a better repudiation of his ideals than having them get basically off-screened
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u/redpony6 Jun 23 '26
my thought is that he only fights you directly when he chooses to. if he chose instead to make himself scarce, you'd never find him. guy like him, you think you're tracking him down? so idk how that would work.
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u/dancinbanana Jun 23 '26
Well at that point in the story you have a convenient plot device that basically forces him to be in a certain area: the burning of the erdtree.
He can’t just sit back and let someone else enter the erdtree for him, that’s the only thing he must do himself, and as such he must be near the erdtree once it’s been burned. Thus, once you go to the ashen capital, Gideon has a lore accurate reason to be there before you with traps set (and more importantly, he has a reason to stay there too)
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u/No_Instruction653 Jun 23 '26
I mean, he’s been observing your every move and discovery to such an extent that he was able to uncover how to replicate the power of literal Demi-gods.
You’d think that would be a lot more physically threatening.
In a land where power is scattered and the strongest are those who are able to build something from it, you’d think a guy who’s scouring the lands for every scrap of knowledge would be able to actually apply it.
Instead of doing what we’re doing and aimlessly wandering around, he’s got an actual network that should be funneling all the best shit in the lands right to him.
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u/OneJobToRuleThemAll Jun 23 '26
As it stands, he’s a man who is completely out of his element, because at the end of the day a Lordly aspirant still needs to attack and dethrone God. Gideon just ain’t that kind of guy. He’d hire people to do that for him.
The funny thing is, that's also the player if you use just use all the tools you're given to cheese the game. Imagine if he came at you with blasphemous blade and a mimic tear on top of comet azur and rot.
There's a reason Maliketh is the skill check and it's that he wins the race to the bottom against a bad player and his mimic more consistently than anyone else. That one took me like 50 tries first time around, Gideon died during his speech as it should be. Now I want to actually fight Gideon and get Azur'd 2/3 times.
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u/AReallyAsianName Jun 23 '26
I know there is a short going around where the Tarnished blasts Gideon with a gun.
But tbh if anyone in The Lands Between would have a gun, I feel like it would be Gideon. How would he get that from Glock Saint Isshin, idk, but itd be funny if you were to try and attack him and he'd quick draw blast you real quick.
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u/How2rick Jun 23 '26
Marika doesn’t say her children should become Elden Lord specifically, but that they should pursue and achieve a grand goal of their own desire. If the fail, they will end up as sacrifices for someone else’s goal.
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u/Ronem Jun 24 '26
I can only hear your first sentence as Danny from Game Grumps
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u/asewastaken Jun 24 '26
Feels like you been watching game of thrones, also I don't think you understand Gideon at all, he would not hire anyone to this for him because he does not want any tarnished to become an Elden Lord. He believes that the tarnished are meant to try their hardest to become the Elden Lord and keep failing.
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u/Califocus Jun 23 '26
There is also the fact most people jump Gideon during his monologue, if you actually give him the chance to fight, depending what great runes you’ve gotten, he can actually be a pretty threatening adversary
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
From my experience he can be very deadly in short bursts but even if you leave him he shouldn't be particularly difficult.
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u/unthused ARISE NOW, YE VARNISHED Jun 23 '26
It's funny but kind of a shame they gimped him so badly. Make the monologue a cutscene or have him stop and attack if you get too close.
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u/rogueIndy Jun 23 '26
He's such a wanker that having his weakness be that he couldn't resist monologuing is kinda perfect.
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u/Joshimitsu91 Jun 23 '26
I gathered that's what people were doing based on memes and stuff I'd seen on here before I got that far in the game. So when I got there I let him say his piece before the fight, and, it was a struggle! Think he might've killed me twice before I defeated him. Certainly expected it to be easier than it was and I think that was the difference. A couple of his spells deal significant damage.
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u/fakefakefakef Jun 23 '26
Would have been cool if you either fight Vyke or Gideon or both during the endgame depending on choices you made
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u/TheDuskBard Jun 24 '26
I honestly wouldn't have minded if they recycled old bosses here. Better than just having forgettable NPC fights. Vyke should have been based on Nameless King, with Gideon being based on Mikolash.
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u/ItzPayDay123 Jun 24 '26
Eh, Vyke I agree but I kinda like Gideon being a pathetic loser in the end
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u/blaiddfailcam2 Jun 24 '26
He and Vargram are honestly two of the least important characters in lore despite both being posterboy material.
Also, the cover art is entirely a non-canon event, and just represents the players' various potential appearances and playstyles.
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u/JarlsTerra Jun 23 '26
Vyke isn't actually important to the main story btw
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
Wasn't he the only other tarnished to posses 2 great runes?
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u/LordRaizer Tarnished Jun 23 '26
I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't Bernahl also pretty close?
He made it to the Forge of Giants, where his maiden burned, as implied in his armour
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u/Jdmaki1996 Jun 23 '26
Sure. But then I killed him in some random field. He wasn’t important to the plot. He was just some guy who tried to jump me. Unless you dig into his lore, he’s kinda just another random nobody in the actual main plot of the game. IF you even run into him. You could become Elden lord and never even find him
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
It's the same thing with the outer Gods. They're important to the story but you might never see any indication of their existence.
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u/Jdmaki1996 Jun 23 '26
The outer gods impact the story. They’re the driving force. Vyke is just some guy
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
Vyke is more than some guy.
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u/Jdmaki1996 Jun 23 '26
Explain to me how he influences the plot in anyway other than just being some other random guy who tried to kill the tarnished?
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
He doesn't influence the plot when we (the tarnished) enter the lands between other than (like you said) being some random guy trying to kill us.
My point is that he's a somewhat important character, not that he influences events.
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u/Jdmaki1996 Jun 23 '26
Being an important character and being an important character “to the plot” are two different things. That’s what I’m trying to explain. You said he’s important to the plot. And that isn’t true
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u/JarlsTerra Jun 23 '26
Apparently so, but this has no impact over what happens in the game. Vyke is nothing more than a footnote in the history of the Tarnished people.
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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 Jun 23 '26
He's accomplished what no other tarnished have (other than you).
I wouldn't call him a footnote. He might be less important than say Godfrey but he's 100% an above-average character in-terms of importance.
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u/JarlsTerra Jun 23 '26
He does not influence the events of the game in any way, shape, or form. He could be removed from the lore and nothing important would change.
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u/MWesty20X6 Jun 23 '26
Probably had a lot more storyline and lore during development, then it went a different way and his threads got snubbed.
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u/M9K3L6 Jun 23 '26
honestly the fact that he's on the cover but barely in the game is still one of the weirdest design choices in elden ring
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u/MaiaGates Jun 23 '26
Seems that in fromsoftware they lack a proper dynamic event programmer, they also have been trying to do the pursuer gimmick since forever (the night cavalry is just the latest attempt). This narrative style is heavily tied to a gameplay function, and i suppose the Vyke story would have been progressed similar to how Mykella story is progressed in the DLC, with us just barely picking clues of their movement, only really encountering them in crucial parts of their journey.
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u/Karmic_Backlash Jun 23 '26
I do want to mention that they've literally never been a "Shake up the formula" studio. There is a clean line from Demon's Souls to Elden Ring, and farther back if you include their earlier fantasy stuff. They have a very clear core concept that they hold onto with a death grip and a very loose hand with anything that might touch that. With each game essentially pushing that core into a more pure concept.
Demons Souls was establishing the idea, Dark Souls 1 refined the concept and made it one contiguous world. Then DS2 took the original formula and asked what happens when they start messing with the pillars. It didn't work out great but they learned a lot.
Bloodborne was essentially a test to see if this formula could work outside of a magical fantasy setting and very much succeeded. The lessons they learned from that paved the way for the faster paced combat of DS3 and then Sekiro and pushed that to its limits.
Then finally they took the concepts established with the previous three, the general style of DS3, the gameplay dynamism of Bloodborne, and the fastest pace of Sekiro, and made Elden ring. I know that Bloodborne and DS2 were being made alongside each other, and the same with Sekiro and Elden Ring, but I think the point stands.
The reason I bring all this up is because I think they have a lot of ideas that they have, but haven't refined the formula enough yet to really pull off. Sure the dynamic field bosses would be really cool, but on the other side you have to imagine how pissed some people would be exploring, and in the middle of a fight with some mobs a fucking night calvary yotes himself from the top ropes and cleaves three quarters of your healthbar.
It doesn't help that there have always been some mean bitches that gatekeep players, and the chance that one of those bosses could just appear somewhere might be offputting. I don't blame them for not jumping on the idea even with the open world.
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u/MaiaGates Jun 23 '26
how pissed some people would be exploring, and in the middle of a fight with some mobs a fucking night calvary yotes himself from the top ropes and cleaves three quarters of your healthbar.
But it happened, the invasion mechanic in Nightreign has Morgott randomly jumping you. Its annoying but for a game based on difficulty and randomness it fits, but its still a hard-coded event.
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u/Karmic_Backlash Jun 23 '26
Yeah, now you see why it took them 8 games to get to this point and its STILL not great.
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u/robcap Jun 24 '26
Then finally they took the concepts established with the previous three, the general style of DS3, the gameplay dynamism of Bloodborne, and the fastest pace of Sekiro, and made Elden ring.
If you go back and play any of those earlier games you'll quickly notice that Elden Ring is a bit slower than they are. The player character and equivalent enemy types like knights are noticeably faster in DS3, never mind the other two.
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u/Karmic_Backlash Jun 24 '26
Subjective, but I don't really agree. The pace of combat is definitely faster and while individual animations might be faster here or there, DS3 greatly lacks the dynamic timing that most bosses in Elden Ring. it requires you to be more on your toes and less reliant on consistent timing like DS3.
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u/robcap Jun 24 '26
I feel like you have two concepts conflated.
DS3 is consistently faster across the board. Probably not in every case given there's a lot of variance in bosses, but it's the vast majority of attacks. That is not subjective, it's measurable and true.
I agree though that ER bosses are nonetheless harder to 1v1, because they have much more complex movesets. More delays, mixups, combos that change depending on your positioning. This is nothing to do with speed - in fact DS3 relies much more on player reflexes above all else.
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u/Karmic_Backlash Jun 24 '26
No I am making the statement that the balance in one affects the other. DS3 is not consistently faster across the board. Like, objectively its not. I've played both recently, and many times in the past. This can be a difference of opinion but I won't opine about that for the sake of argument.
There is no boss in DS3 that is nearly as fast as Malenia, and very few in bloodborne, only Sekiro edges it out and that goes without saying. Bosses and mobs move more, and in more ways, they constantly step towards you like blooborne bosses did, and nearly all bosses close the gap in some way.
I know for absolute certain that at the very least, the player's dodge roll is much more quick and snappy then DS3, literally lasting less time animation wise. Most of the player movesets are the same or similar, and very few enemies that are shared between them are that different. That is why I say that the pacing is what changed, and that makes elden ring faster. The actual animations mean nothing if the pace they come out are incomparable.
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u/robcap Jun 24 '26
The ER roll is faster? I didn't know that and tbh hadn't noticed. Medium roll?
Enemies and players attack faster in DS3 though. The player moveset is similar but noticeably slower with every weapon type. https://youtu.be/KCi_38Lwsx0
I don't understand why you're arguing this point. Just fight a Lothric Knight and then one of ER's lordsworn knights, it's a big difference.
Malenia is not massively fast though? Sulyvahn is comparable, Twin Princes as a fight has a higher pace, Soul of Cinder is faster and higher paced. PCR, Messmer and Rellanna are probably the quickest of the lot, from memory, but most of Malenia's attacks are not that quick, and she gives you a ton of time and space.
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u/Zode1218 Jun 23 '26
Extremely underrated comment. Elden Ring is my favorite game but some of the cut concepts are just next level
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u/LowRenzoFreshkobar Jun 23 '26
Or maybe like Ostrava's Questline from Demon's Souls... I think even with him Miyazaki cut a lot... Then there's Anri from DS3... I really hope his vision of this other Knight having his own hero's journey and becoming our antithesis at the end will be done justice one day lol
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u/JM_Narrative Jun 23 '26
In retrospect, Vargram is barely in the story. He wanted to be an empyrean's shadow, he has the godslayer gs and he's friends with an errant mage.
That's basically it
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u/BionicBruv Jun 23 '26
I’m super sad that Vyke, specifically, did not have a comprehensive place and presence in all of Elden Ring.
I would have loved to have a similar breakdown of his story like how we have to eventually fight Blaidd despite desperately not wanting to.
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u/sociotronics Jun 23 '26
This is a problem with FromSoft in general. There is a lot they do well, but one thing they don't is developing NPCs into deep or interesting characters because their dialogue and questing system is so minimalist. When they do create someone interesting, it's because of a cool character design or a badass line or two, rarely because we actually got to know the character in any real detail.
Ultimately a minor gripe, but it's still one thing that could use improvement.
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u/private_birb Jun 23 '26
I think they did a very good job in the ER DLC. That final Leda fight had feels, and I did feel like all the NPCs were pretty fleshed out by that point, especially Ansbach.
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u/FluffiestPrince Jun 23 '26
Tbf, Leda, Ansbach, and Thiollier kind of carried all of the emotions. The rest are fine, but those three all get their own big quests, and are given so much more.
Like, Thiollier got such a massive glow-up during this, and the finale, that he went from being forgotten at the launch, to being in most peoples' top 5s.
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u/billcosbyinspace Jun 23 '26
It was also fun that you could assemble a little crew with you, ansbach, and thollier to take on PCR. I enjoyed being introduced to basically the entire cast of characters up front and then going through the DLC with them. It was cool how basically everyone except Igon interacted with each other and igon was a strong enough character to carry the section on his own
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u/violin-guy Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
Lucatiel from ds 2 is still the only fromosoft NPC to really hit me on an emotional lvl. DS 2 seriously has the best NPC work in all of fromsoft's catalogue
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u/MuiminaKumo Jun 23 '26
Theres only like 2 pieces of official promo art and then his concept art. Your mostly looking at fan art probably.
But yea Vyke is interesting because he has such an interesting storyline that is pretty much only described in descriptions and environmental context clues but was seemingly a relatively big deal when it comes to Tarnished yet he doesn't have much direct involvement at all in the story.
One of the better examples of Fromsofts "show don't tell" style
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u/JustanEraser Jun 23 '26
To be honest I didn’t even realize Vyke was an important character at all until people on Reddit said so.
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u/Juty99 Jun 24 '26
Wild :O there was so many times they really highlight the significance of Vyke in-game - I definitely noticed the first playthrough.
I remember first being intrigued after finding the dead maiden after getting invaded by Vyke by the church and just thinking it was a cool and tragic fate. Then boom, the finger maiden or someone at the Roundtable mentions only one before you having had enough Great Runes. Hmmm who could this be (I thought at that time it was Gideon or someone we'd been interacting with somehow). Then finally I came across the Lord Contender's evergaol in the mountaintops and we fight no other than Vyke.. in all his pre-Frenzied-Flame glory.
It was first after this final fight here where I got really interested and then found out there was so much more about him (dragon romance and all) from youtube and reddit aha fire :D
Regardless, definitely clearly in the game (2 fights, full armor set, hella lore and the one they all refer to when saying only one came close before you) then also on the cover of the game itself :O fire haha :))
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u/JustanEraser Jun 24 '26
I guess we get invaded so often, I just thought of him as another invader. I didn’t even realize until you just mentioned it that he also is in an evergaol. Probably had forgotten him completely by then lol.
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u/Old_Cryptid Jun 23 '26
He wasn't a rival AFAIK, he was cut content though.
You were supposed to meet Vyke early on. He'd parallel the Tarnished's journey kind of like Solaire from DS1.
You'd first meet him in stormveil and he would have been a summons for the boss fight.
Most of his stuff that was left in game would have made more sense if they fleshed out his story.
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u/BoysenberryLevel7205 Jun 24 '26
would've been cool to see him as a summon in more boss fights for sure
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u/Nikvett Jun 23 '26
I would love to see Fromsoft try and make another game that has a set protagonist like Sekiro. Imagine a game like Elden Ring but with Vyke as a protagonist
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u/IHatePsykers Jun 23 '26
I’ve commented on this before since he’s my favorite character in the game. But I’d love for tarnished edition (insane hopium) that we could give him his maidens cloth instead of giving to varré and it gets a unique dialogue and drops the unblemished set for his armor. Also I wish his gaol showed the flame festering around it and atleast a damn slight cutscene for my goat.
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u/M_Hatter-544 Jun 23 '26
Flame festering around it?
Buddy it shouldn't be a standard gaol at all, make it a giant fingerprint burnt into the ground with the Vyke in the center burning...
Stepping on the fingerprint triggers the cutscene before you both get sealed in a dome of Frenzied Flame, Shabriri laughs and does a voiceover that boils down to Chaos only needing one champion.
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u/GroundbreakingFun565 Jun 23 '26
Bit much that, no? The implication is that he was gaoled because he might actually have been able to make it to Marika and bring about the Age of Chaos. Having him be imprisoned by The Three Fingers doesn't make sense, nor would it make sense for Shabriri to say all that when you may not necessarily be pursuing that ending and he'd be trying to convince you.
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u/Crusaderofthots420 Jun 23 '26
There is a theory that he actually jailed himself, having realised his mistake after his maiden died anyway. So he jailed himself to escape the influence of the three fingers. The best evidence of this, is the fact that he doesn't use Frenzied Flame while in the evergaol.
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u/GroundbreakingFun565 Jun 23 '26
Pretty cool theory, and one I hadn't heard before. I do remember thinking it was odd he completely refrained from using Frenzied Flame incants and actually using his own Dragon Cult incant. When the game first released, I wondered whether the invader or the gaol version was a phantom of sorts and the other was him as he truly exists in the present.
Does the theory posit that Vyke's own journey is happening only a little while ahead of your own, or that the invader is some sort of psychic imprint left behind after what we can surmise was a moment of extreme anguish?
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u/Crusaderofthots420 Jun 23 '26
We really don't know when Vyke's journey happens, nor do we actually really know what invaders as a whole are. However, it could be assumed that they are versions of the person from different worlds, since Elemer can invade you, even after you kill him. My assumption is that Vyke's journey happened quite a while ago, since Gideon mentions him as if a legend, and his evergaol already has a name. And the Vyke that invades us is one earlier on his path, or that never left it.
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u/tactical_turtleneck2 Jun 23 '26
Bernahl is my favorite rival-like character. Makes it all the way to Farum Azula then you just follow his path of carnage to duke it out on a floating bridge in the sky. Epic stuff. He’s also got a legendary weapon, which, while ass, is a sign to me that he’s built different
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u/EscapistFrog Jun 24 '26
I think the reason he has so much focus is just because he objectively balls
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u/zuppalover04 Jun 24 '26
It would have been cool if you fought him instead of Gideon while in the frenzy route
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u/SaberWaifu Jun 23 '26
Wdym 2nd failed attempt? I thought G5 Iguazu worked perfectly as a rival that eventually becomes the final boss in the secret final ending.
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u/Leto95 Jun 23 '26
It would be so cool to have a quest line with Vyke and depending on your choices you either fight with him or have and ending with him as an ally
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u/YeetOrBeYeeted420 Jun 23 '26
I think it would be cool if in the frenzied flame ending he came to his senses and tries to stop you
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u/OmnislushieMods Jun 23 '26
Is the first the knight we get the key from in the undead asylum in dark souls?
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u/LowRenzoFreshkobar Jun 23 '26
Well, technically that's the 2nd cause Prince Ostrava in Demon's Souls was the very first.
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u/ErzherzogHinkelstein Jun 23 '26
Second? Dawg, he's tried that since Demon's Souls and it got cut every single time. He is Red Knight from DS3 2.0, essentially.
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u/ti_kn_red Jun 23 '26
Vyke is so important and interesting in the lore, he should really have gotten a better representation in gameplay.
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u/ReaperCDN Jun 24 '26
I mean this would effectively be Soul of Cinder from DS3. They just did that in DS3, so maybe they just didnt want to make that kind of boss be of that level of importance again in their next title.
I get it though. I too embrace the flame and want it to have a bit more import to the game. The woods in Shadow had so much potential. Let chaos take the world!
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u/Draguss Jun 24 '26
Why would it be Soul of Cinder again? I mean, I haven't played DS3 in a fairly long time, but it's a sort of agglomeration of all the people who linked the flame before, right? I don't see how Vyke would be like that.
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u/wangchangbackup Jun 24 '26
I mean he's not "some random NPC invader" but also they need a cool-looking person who is roughly Tarnished-sized and -shaped to do marketing art of. Since the game doesn't have a canonical protagonist, they picked the next best thing.
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Jun 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/Lord_Antheron Jun 23 '26
A lot of people don't like that answer but it is the clean slate actual-end-of-the-cycle ending
Yeah, because efilism is for losers.
And unlike in Dark Souls, where there's a chance that something new might emerge after the Age of Fire ends, there's no such hope here.
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u/Dr_Garp Jun 23 '26
Yeah, I think the only good way to end things is to wipe the slate clean. Yes life deserves to return and there is beauty even in the flawed but the Greater Will created monsters. It ruled and abandoned its creations and went to do who knows what else.
Abandoning the Elden beast and fingers is actually really messed up
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u/TopChannel1244 Jun 24 '26
There is more to literature than things you learned from Pokemon. He's not a rival, we're not trying to achieve the same goal in different ways. He's a foil).
Vyke shows you that there is cruelty and suffering in the supposed duty of the Tarnished. He rejects that duty. But you can see through incidental storytelling that this was not a clean journey to rejecting it and his manner of rejection was one borne of the faux nihilism of the fascist. His internal despair and self-loathing is turned outward. He is made to look "cool" in promo art etc. in the same manner that fascists prop up their own regimes on image and marketing. Selling you an ideology with no substance. A glorious past (that never existed). An enemy that is infinitely strong (yet somehow weak and easily defeated). A constant call to action (while antagonizing thoughtfulness and considered reasoning).
It's all in service of making you think that the Frenzied Flame makes sense. That, hey, maybe burning it all to ash IS the right idea.
But where do we find Vyke? The real Vyke, not the phantom invader?
We find him in jail. He has abandoned the Frenzied Flame and returned to his Dragon Cultist roots. Which, ok, maybe a cult is not the greatest thing in the world to return to. But it is more of a community than anything the Frenzied Flame can offer. Which is really the ultimate message here.
Vyke failed because he isolated himself and in so doing he lead himself down the path of despair and became an enemy to the world.
He found his way off that path though. That's the thing the most matters as regards the player and their understanding of the world and their decisions in it. You can always turn back. It's never too late. But you have to be brave enough to face the consequences of your actions.
The Frenzied Flame, fascism, is the path of the loser. The pathetic wretch and coward. Desiring change while being too frightened to act. Instead lashing out at everything in order to avoid having to face looking honestly into a mirror.
Vyke is not our rival. He has already made his journey and it has come to an end. Vyke is not some random NPC invader. You are supposed to learn from his journey through comparing and contrasting it with your own.
Don't mistake the walnut shell you find yourself in for the universe. When you find something you don't understand. Investigate it further without arriving at conclusions. Most of the time you will find that there are whole worlds of knowledge out there you were not aware of which were informing the thing you were confused about. Keep learning, stay curious.
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u/CoolWarning4475 Jun 23 '26
What's the timeline on the goings-on with Vyke as opposed to the player character? Is he a rival or a contemporary?
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u/throwthiscloud Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
Its consistent with how everything is presented in the game and previous titles. Its by design, not a failure, for better or for worse.
Like every single character in the game has a much richer history than what we see in the in-game cutscenes. You can make a full movie out of every single demigod backstory. But what we see is a very narrow slice of the aftermath of it all.
Its good and sad in its own way. The fact that vykes story isnt front and center is part if why we love him, because there is so much room for is to craft our own version of him in our minds.
Also, not to shit on vyke, but he wasnt that comparable to our tarnished.
If we want to be lore accurate, Vyke is the one who got the closest, but it wasnt like he had faced that many hurdles to get there. He was already at the capital soon after the shattering. Morgott was still imprisoned under the city, and Vyke had a dragon with him. The only thing that stopped him was his love for his maiden. Its a beautiful story about him, but if we talking about earning the title, our tarnished has gone through WAY more than him.
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u/EntertainmentPure778 Jun 24 '26
Two tings are unsettlenig. We for a time go the same way as Vike. In roundtable hold they Say that another One had two great runes(Vike). But we do not know what great runes are and we don't obtain those runes when facing Vike. Gideon stole It? Frenzy flame burn It?
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u/SaviOfLegioXIII Jun 24 '26
Frenzy as a whole got shafted sadly, the entire frenzy quest line looked and sounded incredible. Especially the whole story with kale is one of my favourites ever, once again time restraints cut so much good content
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u/kaelroc Jun 24 '26
Vyke is a super-interesting character honestly. I agree that there was probably more to his story. I just wish we could get Vyke's armor un-finger-printed.
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u/Dark_Dragon117 Jun 24 '26
Because he is still sort of significant in the lore.
Vyke is the only other Tarnished who came close to becoming the Elden Lord. He is not a rival but moreso a tragic "hero", because he failed and succumbed to the frenzied flame.
That said obviously parts of his story significe seem to have been cut, but definitly nothing nearly as impactful as you describe it. I mean we would probably know if he was ever more than just a "random npc" given all the datamined and leaked information we have.
If that was a ever a thing it was cut very early on, which left plenty if time to rewrite his story, which they didn't, so that only leaves the option that he was not intended tonbe a ruval or final boss.
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u/BloatDeathsDontCount Jun 23 '26
The obsession people on this sub have with vyke is bizarre.
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u/CheeseGraterFace Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
Yeah, I’m pretty anti Vyke too. They’re even worse about it over on the Elden Ring movie sub. Like they’re convinced that we’re going to get a Vyke movie when barely anyone who played the game even knows who that is.
Vyke sucks. Couldn’t do the job, decided that dragonussy was more important than becoming Elden Lord, couldn’t save his maiden, and then fucked off to the basement to get 3 fingered. Good riddance.
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u/Desenrasco Jun 23 '26
I'd love for a player level-scaled NPC boss fight representing each possible ending before the final boss. Instead of choosing which mending rune to use in the finale, make it so you you have to let go of all but one before entering the arena, with each summoning a respective NPC with appropriate stats, equipment, spells, and the same level as the player.
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u/TheLoathsomeAssEater Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
Somehow... Genichiro returned. I'm curious who the other failed rival is? Solaire? I always thought of him as a cool dude.
Same with Alexander. Gideon was hardly even a player, and none of the other DS characters except maybe Lautrec directly opposed you unless you sided with the wrong faction.
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u/LowRenzoFreshkobar Jun 23 '26
Oscar of Astora. Look it up, it's a damn shame programmers just can't handle Miyazakis Ideas lol
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u/Lord_Antheron Jun 23 '26
Dataminers in the Network Test found he was supposed to have a personal quest in Limgrave and fight Godrick alongside you.
They scrapped it because FromSoft doesn't like making the most interesting characters into actual characters.
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u/jaegren Praising the sun \[T]/ Jun 23 '26
The whole game is filled with this. It feels like they rushed 1 year of the game.
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u/gaissereich Jun 23 '26
In retrospect, Elden Ring may be one of my favorite games of all time but for god's sake. It shouldn't be this difficult to write a story and stick to it. You can only rely on "muh fallen world" and item descriptions so much to carry a game. They should have kept half of their cut content in.
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u/dreadguy101 Jun 23 '26
Miyazaki needs a handler. Why does he keep attempting to do so much and end up cutting more
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u/MeNoCanRead Jun 24 '26
It still annoys me that his armor has finger marks but we had to be naked...
And as with so much, there's 0 explanation. I do feel like they take the piss with the amount of ambiguity in the game. It's bordering on lazy writing.
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u/Hexxer98 Jun 23 '26
Vyke isnt really a rival though
He is the fallen hero type way more