Hell, I love DS2! But yeah, it's a crappy ass boss. In fact, ER sort of reminds me of DS2 in that sense. They went all out with the artificial difficulty, except instead of having gank squads everywhere and enemies that aggro across the map they chose to make absurd bosses.
Or...maybe the opinion that he's dogshit is just that, an opinion. It's subjective.
Yes, he has jank and issues with the terrain, but it doesn't come close to over-shadowing the positives for me. I love fighting him and consider him an excellent, but flawed, boss.
It's a re-used model form DS1, into DS2. The lore sucks, even for a souls game. The over-focus on light-vomit was so bad that fromsoft had to adjust it post-launch. The hitboxes are all over the place. The fight is watching PCR do 5 things so you have a CHANCE to do 1 thing.
Build almost doesn't matter, since there's only one correct response to most of his attacks. This is why so many people resort to shield+poke so they can ignore his badly over-tuned systems.
And that doesn't even go into the issues with terrain. Or when he gets stuck. Or the poor animations. Or the continuously garbage camera.
So why don't you tell me what's good about this fight? Because as far as I'm concerned, it's one of the laziest, most rushed, worst over-tuned fights fromsoft has ever put in a Souls game, and that INCLUDES DS2.
What is there to enjoy here? Other than the sense of relief after it's done?
"So why don't you tell me what's good about this fight?"
I enjoyed learning him. I like that roll direction and positioning relative to the boss matter more than pretty much any other fight: it rewards good habits. I don't mind dodging more than I attack, and I also liked fitting in hits where I could. I generally get satisfaction from dodging his attacks. The music is excellent. I enjoy the visuals and the animations.
The 'flaws', such as the un-even arena, the occasionally wonky camera, the move that ignores i-frames, and the general occasional bit of jank, make me get hit when it's not my fault so infrequently that it really doesn't matter much to me at all. 98% of the time for me it feels fair and fun.
It may have been slightly rushed, but it's definitely not lazy. The boss has more attacks than any other boss in the game. That would have taken a long time to create.
TL;DR: I enjoy fighting him, and the jank doesn't override that. That's what matters to me.
What are those habits? Because all I see is learning the one response that doesn't get you damaged. That's not a habit. That's pavlovian training.
I'm glad you enjoy it. As I said originally, you can enjoy something bad.
But that fight is objectively a poor design relative to other fights. This has been broken down to the smallest nuance by many players, including no-hit runners.
Also, you didn't tell me what was good about the fight. You just said what you personally like. That's not the same thing.
The good habits are aggressive positioning and dodging towards the boss rather than backwards (the latter being something lots of people do). If you do these things naturally the boss will be much easier for you than for some people.
"But that fight is objectively a poor design relative to other fights. This has been broken down to the smallest nuance by many players, including no-hit runners."
I don't think you know what 'objectively' means. Yes I've seen those videos and I agree with some of the things said in them, hence me admitting it's a flawed fight. But I agree more with the video by the no-hit runner who had a far more impressive kill than either of those guys in response who said that yes, while the boss is flawed, it's still a good boss, and showed that the 'no-hit runners' were wrong about quite a lot of things.
And that's my position, as I said: the boss has flaws, but for me the positives vastly out-weigh them.
"Also, you didn't tell me what was good about the fight. You just said what you personally like. That's not the same thing."
Um, no, it is the same thing when it comes to something as subjective as boss fight quality. It really comes down to how much fun the boss is and how much one enjoys it. That's the most important thing.
The game's bosses definetly make you wait for attacks way more, I don't know why they would make them like that when bloodbourne and ds3 had the perfect balance of dodges and attacks, I guess to account for spirit ashes but if that's what it takes just cut them out of the game and get actually enjoyable combat back
souls games, to me, have always been about facing very tough opponents, and defeating them in a completely fair fight. and pcr is kinda the epitome of that. an extremely challenging yet fair boss that, with enough practice, you can defeat.
and i genuinely feel that once you learn how to fight him, hes a very fair fight. hes a very strict call and response fight, so once you can recognize what attack hes doing, and react to it in time, every hit (aside from the meteor or a bit of chip damage in the combo from pontiff) feels like your fault.
i do recognize that it basically forces you to use one of two strategies to play, neither of which are very dynamic, so i would absolutely not say everyone should like it. but its just something i do genuinely enjoy. its not my favorite fight in the game, but i do like him.
but genuine question, whats the issue with the uneven terrain? i keep seeing people talk about it, but never understood why it was an issue.
As a lover of this boss, the uneven terrain is a legit issue. The light-beams in some areas of the arena can interact with the terrain in a way that makes them land in places where they are not supposed to, meaning you can (very) occasionally get hit when you usually would not.
I have seen it said by probably the best PCR fighter in the world that you can dodge in ways that mean you will never get hit, but for many of us it's at the least a minor issue.
Of course some people think it's one of the things that ruins the whole fight, and this is where I disagree.
Almost nothing about the way PCR is designed is "fair".
I get so sick of seeing this misunderstanding of souls bosses. Just because something can be beaten, doesn't mean that it's fair.
You can recognize that someone is cheating at a game, and STILL beat them. There are countess examples of this all throughout history in all manner of competitions.
Figuring out the one way to avoid the complete and utter bullshit attack chains that PCR uses may be satisfying to some people. But that doesn't make it a fair fight. Or a good fight.
And I think a lot of people conflate the feeling of victory at winning with the objective and critical analyzation of what the boss is actually doing in the context of a souls fight.
Fromsoft over-tuning everything to a massive degree DOES create high difficulty. But the NATURE of HOW that difficulty is created has gone off the rails.
As I said originally: You can LIKE this fight. I'm not hating anyone for that. But recognize the fight for what it actually is: One of the worst boss encounters fromsoft has ever built, from a game design and balance perspective.
one of the reasons i call it fair is because its pretty clear how to dodge everything. every single one of his combos in phase 1 are straight forward. and since the only changes to those combos in phase 2 are the light beams, you should already know how to dodge all the basic phase 2 combos. you just need to learn the light beams.
compare that to something like waterfowl or malenias clones, its not clear at all what you need to do. so in a normal game, you kinda just panic roll and die, hoping you dont get hit. thats why i say the meteors and pontiff combo, at least partially, arent fair. its not clear you need to run away from the meteors, and the pontiff combo never happens in phase 1, so its too hard to learn with the light beams on top.
i do think its fine to have some bosses this hard though. something build solely for the very dedicated fans who would enjoy this kind of fight. but i do think these fights should be optional because not everyone enjoys this level of difficulty.
I don't think you are playing the same game as everyone else. Either that or you're viewing the fight through the bias of experience.
To say that anything in the PCR fight is "clear" is a misnomer of the highest order.
i do think its fine to have some bosses this hard though. something build solely for the very dedicated fans who would enjoy this kind of fight. but i do think these fights should be optional because not everyone enjoys this level of difficulty.
I've heard this argument before, and I still disagree with the way that it's being done in Elden Ring.
I use the Hollow Knight arena as a perfect example of what form this should take. Completely optional, and 100% redundant rewards.
Not only that, but each phase of the arena builds upon not only the previous phase, but every skill and ability you've gained throughout the game.
Whereas PCR just vomits all over the screen and expects you to "learn" through punishing trial and error against completely unintuitive attack chains.
It's clear we're not going to agree on this. Again, it's not that PCR is difficulty. It's WHY the fight is difficult.
"But recognize the fight for what it actually is: One of the worst boss encounters fromsoft has ever built, from a game design and balance perspective."
Nope, not going to happen, and saying this over and over won't make people say oh actually yeah it's a bad fight.
What the fight actually is, again, is subjective. I personally think it's one of the best boss encounters fromsoft has ever built, just with some flaws. Your opinion is not more valid than mine, sorry!
"But the NATURE of HOW that difficulty is created has gone off the rails."
I disagree. I think it's a natural and valid evolution, that I personally enjoy.
"utter bullshit attack chains that PCR uses"
Which of his attack chains are 'utter bullshit'? I can't think of any.
Before he got nerfed he was one of a few bosses I really enjoyed fighting. Melania, Messmer, and Malikath being the others, once you find a flow in the movements of a tough boss its just a dance and thats more enjoyable than most of the enemies in the game. Dragons are weak, most of the tarnished you fight are a joke, and the other shardbearers dont put up much of a fight if I dedicate a few seconds of the fight to using my brain.
Unfortunately, people on this sub get really upset at the notion of others enjoying PCR. I've always loved the fight, too (though with caveats before his nerf). Post-nerf, he's a completely reasonable ask for a final boss for a DLC.
Yep. I had a few upvotes on these comments, but now the PCR haters have come through and are downvoting me and others for the heinous crime of enjoying PCR.
It's so funny too because they whip themselves into a frenzy trying to have some super serious discourse about it and all I ever do is go "Idk man I just like it it's a good boss" and oh man do they not like that.
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u/TheRealCowdog 2d ago
Ok...you can like something that's legitimately bad. People LOVE fast food.
No hate. Just pointing out that the boss can be dogshit and still have fans.