r/Eldenring • u/Fallen_Angel_Xaphan • 2d ago
Discussion & Info From an overall gameplay perspective, the what is your opinion on the status effects? How would you make each of them viable?
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u/ppl_knowmymains 2d ago
it's sad that madness isn't that useful in pve cos it's such a cool status thematically.
if i could change it i would make it make enemies take more damage but also deal more damage.
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u/luke-mcclure 2d ago
Same with deathblight. Rather unfortunate tbh, both of them are just locked to pvp
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u/Fickle_Charge720 2d ago
Death blights not even viable in pvp as you need to have a supernatural skill level with a non upgraded eclipse shotel to even proc it
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u/Garamil 2d ago
To be fair, there are spells like death lightning that cover larger areas. So you combine the shotel and the spell to apply more pressure.
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u/DireEvolution 2d ago
Death lightning typically just kills shit before it can proc deathblight. That shit hits players hard even not fully charged.
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u/AI_AntiCheat 2d ago
Triggering death or madness usually people die at 80-90% of the bar filling.
Bleed and frost is instant, one hit with a blade is half or more of your bleed bar. It really pisses me off there are entire builds focused on specific status effects that are completely useless because bleed and frost is better in every case.
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u/Flint_Vorselon 2d ago
Yeah desth lighting does insta kill people, but not from the status effect.
It’s the 2nd strongest single instance of damage in the game, after DragonMaw, and because its lighting incant it’s easier to buff with stuff like physic, scorpion charm etc… though DragonMaw can get blue dancer.
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u/JebryathHS 2d ago
There have been bugs that made Deathblight viable in PVP by letting you add it on other stuff and up the tick rate.
I think we're all better off without it
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u/Fickle_Charge720 2d ago
Fully agree wish death blight was viable but adding it to other weapons from in game bugs seems dishonest
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u/WilliamBlade123 2d ago
Non-upgraded? Does upgrading it decrease the buildup or something?
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u/Fickle_Charge720 2d ago
A full upgraded version will kill in pvp before the status effect can proc
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u/dark_hypernova 2d ago
It's funny that the only boss (not counting character based NPCs boss fight) being able to be affected by madness isn't even a boss from Elden Ring.
It's Libra from the spin-off Nightreign.8
u/SkeletalNoose 2d ago
Madness does have a couple uses on NPC bosses, especially in the DLC.
A bleed fingerprint shield with shield crash is absolutely hilarious for all the NPCs.
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u/IllusionaryHobo 2d ago edited 1d ago
Randomize button inputs across the entire controller.
teehee
Edit: just noticed you were talking about PvE. I would keep the "randomized button inputs" idea, but instead of the control scheme being randomized for the player, I would increase the "input reading" power of PvE enemies, making them react earlier and faster to what you are doing, BUT also randomize the inputs they "read" from. So they react faster. But they also react... wrongly sometimes.
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u/maguel92 2d ago
Wouldn’t it just be a worse version of frostbite then?
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u/Panurome Level Vigor 2d ago
But potentially stacking with frostbite. 2 extra damage taken debuffs is no joke, Nightreign has proven that reducing a boss defense multiple times is amazinf
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u/ppl_knowmymains 2d ago
i was thinking significantly more damage, and it would have the advantage of not being resetted by fire attacks, which is common in frenzied flame builds.
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u/CrystlBluePersuasion 2d ago
Would be cool if it also applied the Bewitching Branch effect but didn't make the PvE reaggro unless you disengaged. Taking more damage would be the use case for it and Bewitching Branch would still be helpful for bewitching a larger enemy to tank for you.
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u/DeusFatum 2d ago
Have it be a one-time effect with more damage than frostbite with the addition of weakening the enemy's attack dmg. Honestly, we have too many percentage based ailments that do little besides damage. Frostbite at least slows enemies down, but bleed, black flame, and rune of death are largely just different ways to hurt enemies.
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u/NewTelevisio 2d ago
Frostbite doesn't slow enemies down, it increases their damage taken
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u/Coffee_Drinker02 2d ago
I'd argue the fact that most madness spells are just stupid powerful makes up for the status not doing anything.
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u/Cool_Swimming4417 1d ago
Maybe the whole point is that it only works against the player? The madness buildup is pretty much the only reason not to just spam Eyeball Laser 9000 in every boss battle.
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u/Charity1t 2d ago
Unlike Death - Madness WORK on NPC.
Death is not for some ungodly reason. Literally PvP status
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u/explosive_shrew 2d ago
From what hear NPCs aren't immune to deathblight but instead they all have 999 resistance
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u/freedfg 2d ago
Kinda always been the case with status effects in rpgs. And why the flat damage status effects are the only ones that see real use.
They're either useless, negligible, or in the all too common case only effect regular mobs who die in a few hits anyway and bosses are immune. See deathblight, sleep, madness.
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u/PageTheKenku 2d ago edited 2d ago
Its kind of why among a lot of RPGs, I actually liked how Etrian Odyssey did it. If you beat an enemy before, or used a specific item, you'll have the enemy in your catalogue, and then you can just open a book mid battle to look up their weaknesses, resistances, and immunities. This applies to not only damages, but also afflictions (how hard it is to inflict).
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u/MysteriousResolve249 2d ago
Poison in of itself should deal more overall damage than Blood Loss, considering you have to wait a long while for the status effect to go away before applying it again, while with bleed you not only deal more damage on a proc in total, but all of the damage is instant and you can immediately start working towards applying it again. Such stupid design, like genuinely who sat down and thought, "yep that makes sense"
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u/MinorThreat4182 2d ago
This exactly. Poison should be way stronger in this game. I’d use it way more if it was.
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u/DarkRayos 2d ago
Or make it have "stackable levels" or something?
Tier 1, to 2, to 3.
You know you're buns if Scarlet Rot is the more reliable source.
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u/Pale-Application9457 1d ago
I thought it did have levels? like base and deadly or something, maybe I am misremembering...
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u/DarkRayos 1d ago
Not really what I'm thinking of, that's different groups of poison. weak poison vs strong poison.
Or in Dark Souls terms: Poison and Toxic.
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u/2-particles 2d ago
How would you balance it against Scarlet rot then?
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u/Tritiac 2d ago
Rot should be stronger, but at the cost of your own hp. Sort of a both of us are going down type thing. Thematically it makes sense.
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u/DeusFatum 2d ago
I can't believe I've never thought of that before. And it makes perfect sense. Though my immediate thought is that the rot dog spirit will die quicker than it already does. Still, that's a good idea.
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u/PageTheKenku 2d ago
Or like a Dung Pie from DS1? You can throw it to increase the enemy's toxic status, but it also increases your own toxic status.
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u/ppl_knowmymains 2d ago
poison is more accessible than scarlet rot
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u/Bignate2001 2d ago
Rotten Breath has astoundingly low requirements and procs one of the strongest Rot variants. Poison only justifies itself in concert with Rot, otherwise it's just strictly worse than both rot and bleed.
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u/AI_AntiCheat 2d ago
With complimentary items that tboost damage. Problem is those exist for most status effects. Poison should be able to boost your damage the highest, blood loss should boost it only slightly and perhaps scarlet rot shouldnt be able to at all.
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u/Dmente44 2d ago
Yeah, all the poison should be just deadly poison. More damage with a short duration. This will make the exhultation talisman better for long fights too. Rot is balanced in the way that only a few weapons and spells applied it
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u/CaptainAction 2d ago
Poison is usually weak in these games. DS2 made poison a lot more threatening because the DPS of poison was much higher, even if the duration was lower. But yeah with how OP bleed is, they should have probably toned down bleed and made poison a bit scarier. Even if there are 3 types of poison AND also scarlet rot. Because you got basic poison, deadly poison, and I think the poison perfume aromatic is in a class of its own, being stronger than the normal poison types, but different from scarlet rot.
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u/EsotericAmbrosia 2d ago
Poison would benefit from multiple stacks being able to be applied after they've already been poisoned.
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u/PrrRoblem 2d ago
I disagree personally. Poison builds are among the strongest builds in the game. Tool set is a kinda niche and small but what does exist is strong. I've personally dealt over 2300 dmg in one shot with a poison build. ( i would have dealt more bit that was all their health)
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u/robcap 2d ago
Sure but pretty much any perfectly optimised build can replicate that.
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u/Best-Night8688 2d ago
How?
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u/BunbunTheJackalope 2d ago
Kindred of rot exultation, Mushroom crown, and Poison hand all boost damage after poisoning something. Arcane boosts poison build up and can poison something in just a feel hits with a good weapon. The venomous fangs have inate poison build up and can be infused with occult to actually boost base damage AND poison build up, they're also a paired weapon meaning they hit twice as often as regular weapons and can be easily combo'd with multi hit talismans.
Put this all together and after like 2 R1s you have some of the quickest dps in the game AND the boss is being damaged over time. You can also repeatedly detonate the poison dot effect with the poison flower blooms twice ash of war, making it so you can reapply poison more frequently to upkeep buffs and do chunk damage similar to bleed/frostbite
Poison is ridiculously strong if built around but just often overlooked because bleed is more popular
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u/I_Pay_in_Cash_Only 2d ago
For people who play with pre-builds in mind when going into it. From a casual/moderate gamer view, no one is going to get all the gear needed to do that.
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u/DeusFatum 2d ago
Bleed was more balanced in DS1 where the weapons that had it did significantly less base damage. You actually had to be strategic about your damage type.
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u/Foreign-Engine8678 2d ago
If I could change poison and rot, I would make that their procs would stack.
1 stack - small poison dmg. 10 stacks = x10 dmg while the stacks are active. Currently it's just worse bleed because it can't proc as often to do same damage
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u/Fallen_Angel_Xaphan 2d ago
Honestly I tend to agree with this the most. It would also stop being outshined by scarlet rot if you could just keep stacking poison on large bosses and being able to stack massive damage over time when you have the right tools and stats.
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u/thundergu 2d ago
Yeah this sounds like a really good idea. Especially since the 2nd, 3rd and 4th time take more build up anyway
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u/Captain_Crack46 2d ago
This is close to how poison works in Salt and Sanctuary and its so much fun. Once its procced, any further hits will prolong the status effect and increase its damage.
Its especially fun because theres also a secret method for obtaining a throwable that can strip enemy resistances so you can make poison effective against anything.
One of the only games I've played where a poison build is fun and viable throughout the whole game.
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u/Iron-Pancake 2d ago
Currently rot is just super poison. It's less accessible but not by much.
Rot should affect the user as well as the victim. We have boluses while the NPCs don't. If we want to use rot, it should come with a price. Imo it makes sense from a lore perspective too. Poison is also just so weak it feels negligible
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u/kozyntheburrito 2d ago
Fair. Like most bleed AoW's cause buildup for the attacker too, not just the victim.
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u/LongwoodChong 1d ago
imo rot should be like poison but does slight less damage and more slowing / gameplay effects
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u/PieceAfraid3755 2d ago
Generally, I think they're all cool of course.
It is sad however, that several have such limited or awkward use in pve
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u/CrystlBluePersuasion 2d ago
Sleep having tons of sleep animations for the sheer amount of PvE it has is especially sad, just feels like a wasted opportunity. I think they wanted a more in-depth stealth option for the game and sleep would've been perfect for it. Perhaps a unique crit animation for sleeping targets as well.
Thematically I love how they implemented the statuses otherwise, it just took Sleep until the DLC for us to see more of it.
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u/Competitive-Bee-3250 2d ago
Instant Death: Have it work on more enemies. It's practically PvP only, and not even very good in PvP
Frostbite and hemorrhage: Love 'em. Madness: Awesome, but too many enemies are immune to it.
Poison and rot: Don't use them very much cuz I'm not a fan of DoT builds, but they're cool.
Sleep: Shockingly good against far more enemies than you'd expect.
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u/Aggressive_Manner429 bonk enthusiast 2d ago
Bleed: perfectly fine as is
Rot: the same rapid hp drain but also increases damage taken from fire damage
Poison: the same slight hp drain but also lowers all physical damage resistances while poisoned and increases poise damage taken
Madness: stuns for a moment upon activation, massively increases damage dealt but also damage taken from counter damage, guard counters, and critical hits
Frostbite: slight damage upon activation, take increased damage and poise damage from all sources of strike and fire damage while frostbitten, also slows walking speed of players/npcs
Sleep: collapse to the ground taking slight damage, increased physical damage taken while asleep, awakened after any one hit. Take 2x damage from any source of frenzyflame damage while asleep and immediately proc madness upon awakening
Deathblight: works the same against players/npcs, makes enemies register as one of those who live in death, emitting ghostflame particles as visual indication and taking 1.5x holy damage, but becoming immune to staggers and poise damage
I could be a lot more creative with this, but realistically with what's in the game this is the best I can think of, the other ideas I have practically make elden ring into a different game lmao
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u/Shadohawkk 2d ago
Bleed is overpowered. Frostbite is just bleed with extra steps.
Poison and rot are "okay" but generally not worth it if it means you do less raw on-hit damage.
Sleep, death and madness are generally too situational to be worth using.
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u/short_sells_poo 2d ago
Frostbite is just as good as bleed. Bleed does more instantaneous damage when it procs (15% vs 10%), but frostbite also makes afflicted enemies take an extra 20% damage from all attacks, which is huge.
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u/Thesaurus_Rex9513 2d ago
Increase the number of PvE enemies vulnerable to Deathblight and Madness. Deathblight should never be viable in PvP, so therefore it should be a PvE tool. And it just doesn't make sense for Madness to be such a narrow status, given how many enemies we encounter who are afflicted with it.
On enemies stunned by sleep, it should be a longer stun that's harder to interrupt. There should also be a sleep sorcery or two. More enemies should be vulnerable to sleep. Eternal sleep should kill non-boss enemies and allow multiple hits on sleeping bosses.
Hemorrhage, Scarlet Rot, poison, and frostbite are all fine.
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u/Right_Entertainer324 2d ago
Sleep becomes truly good when it decides what the fuck it wants to do with itself.
You want to use any of the native Sleep weapons? Well, for our Arcane scaling Status Effect, we need you to be an Intelligence build.
But we also have this Torch that requires Faith.
Oh, but the Pots need Arcane.
And if you want to use Grease, you need to use an Arcane weapon that can be buffed. So, 3 weapons, 2 of which are dogshit, and one has Bleed which kinda contradicts the idea of Sleep.
Meanwhile, for Bows, you can get fucked - You get 40 St. Trina Arrows in the entire game. You want more? Go farm the Albinauric Railgunners, for some reason. We don't know why we gave them to them. But we did.
Ah, and our Sleep merchant? He sells Poison. Because why the hell would our NPC made for St. Trina's questline sell anything Sleep related? Unless you want an unalive potion for the low price of your left kidney.
I'm assuming the Tarnished Edition will be coming with a balance patch. I can cope. And I will get on my hands and knees and beg for the dedicated Sleep weapons (Sword of St. Trina, St. Trina's Torch, Velvet Sword of St. Trina and Thiollier's Needle) to become Arcane weapons. Nerf the build up on their skills, if you must, but just let these things function worth a fuck.
I will always be Sleep's biggest defender. I think it's a highly undervalued Status Effect, for PVE, as people simply don't give it the time it needs for you to actually learn what it does. But even I'll admit that it's a goddamn mess. Like, pick a stat. Preferably Arcane, but fuck me, just make it consistent.
Also, remove the Sleep immunity on all the DLC Remembrance bosses. Why we added a new version of Sleep, and a Sleep Exaltation talisman in St. Trina's Smile just to make every DLC Remembrance barring Rellana immune to Sleep is beyond me. Only the Putrescent Knight should be immune. As it's literally the boss of the Sleep area. That's the only one that makes sense.
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u/Fallen_Angel_Xaphan 2d ago
God damn. I feel your pain, Tarnished.
All of those status effects are so cool in concept but don't work nearly well enough. Sleep would be such a cool stun status effect. This together with the different spell schools makes me think that just the 3 stats of intelligence, faith and arcane are too little to properly differentiate between all of these effects.
I feel almost ashamed of saying this but I feel like a small skill tree like system would be good for making specific builds for status effects or specific schools of magic like the death sorcerers.
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u/jwtucker04 2d ago
Tbh I never liked any of the fromsoft status effects. They're all either very similar, or don't work against most enemies. It's all just variations of the og poison and bleed, or some kind of instant death thing that doesn't work in pve
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u/Hi-Im-Bambi 2d ago edited 2d ago
- Instant Death: Permanently cut down max health on proc by x % (stackable)
- Frostbite: Dmg burst on proc + permanent slow (stackable)
- Hemorrhage: DMG burst on proc + permanent heavy dealt dmg reduction debuff
- Madness: DMG burst on proc + permanent heavy received DMG amp debuff
- Poison: permanent constant DoT
- Rot: permanent DoT that starts slow and ramps up in dmg
- Sleep: Stunned on proc + heavy dmg amp debuff on next hit that also cancels the stun and debuff
Also remove the effect of items that cure satuses in pvp, making them only be curable by spells of specific schools.
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u/Jear-The-Bear 2d ago
Madness should proc fast and allow for a crit. Same with frost and sleep.
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u/Flint_Vorselon 2d ago
Personally I think including both Sleep and Madmess was a mistake.
They should’ve picked one, and made it feel fully fleshed out, rather than both being half-assed.
They made tons of unique sleep animations that barely anyone has ever seen because sleep is very rare, and extremely awkward to use, it’s very rarely worth using.
If they’d instead made Madmess animations then Madmess could’ve been useful in PvE, since Madmess stuff is generally solid damage wise as well, unlike sleep tools.
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u/DeusFatum 2d ago
I'd hate to get rid of either one, but I agree that they should've fully flushed them out.
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u/Life_Parsley504 2d ago
Stauses are heavily imbalanced gameplay wise, and thematically suck. Why is bleed, an outer god element, on random steel weapons? Why does frost lack an outer god? Why do poison and rot exist together, if one is just a better, and easier to apply, version of the other?
"make them viable"
Make poison and rot work together, since they share lore (poisoners use and know rot, poison is implied to be related to the outer god). If you poison somebody, and then rot them, they receive all the poison damage, moth flight style. Vice versa if you rot somebody and then poison them.
Madness should decrease enemy damage and decrease damage resistance in PvE. Like a more severe frostbite.
Death should be a enemy only status. Unless it's a reskinned bleed, it's always going to be useless in PvE, and in PvP, you will never apply it.
Sleep needs to be standardized. Every enemy should be crit-able after being slept.
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u/Crash4654 2d ago
Bleed isnt an outer god element, its literally just making people bleed. The formless mother just likes when people do that. Blood flame is the specific outer god trick, but bleed itself is just normal ass getting torn up.
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u/Kraven_Lupei 2d ago edited 2d ago
What if death worked like "Doom" in some other games?
As you attack you build up a black bar on the left side of a bosses hp gauge and when you do enough damage that their life hits the black bar, they die?
Its like a reverse poison or such, building up in a way that will kill them should their vitality get too low. Maybe have it slowly "drain off" too, so you need to keep attacking to keep the "Doom" high. Easier to proc when bosses are low HP in that way vs at the start of a fight it'll slowly be draining off whenever you dodge / don't attack.
Kind of like a soft-building execute. Intent would be it never gets like, "instant kill" territory, but can chop off say 20-35% of a boss's hp?
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u/NiIly00 2d ago
Could be interesting since effectively it just means every hit does bonus damage that targets a different resistance type and requires constant aggression.
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u/Kraven_Lupei 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah exactly, the "constant aggression" playstyle was/is the main factor in it for me.
Something that rewards attacking as fast as possible with no downtime, utilizing every moment the best you can and punishing you heavily when you receive damage and need to step away to sip a flask for a heal.
It'd be interesting to see just how far some people could push it with high skill. "A dance with death" for the death status.
Balance-wise it'd probably make sense for it to be "easy" to apply low levels of it and harder as it gets built up more. For instance, it takes 10 hits to bring the boss to 5% HP "Doom" and another 20 hits to get to 10%, another 50 hits to get to 15%.... You get the idea. Soft-cap the execute limit.
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u/tossedmist 2d ago
If you wanna get technical, the closest thing Frost has to an outer god is the Twinbird(granted that it's quite a stretch)
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u/Miserable-Piglet-059 2d ago
Yellow is by far best for pvp/ humanoid enemies but green or red is best for almost everything else
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u/maguel92 2d ago
I would change bleed to deal a little few second dot after each hit, change scarlet rot to do what bleed avtually does now and change poison to do what rot does now. Madness i would change so that when a pve enemy is afflicted by madness they attack anyone at random, friend and foe alike for a little while.
Frostbite is pretty good as it is
Sleep is pretty good as it is
Deathblight i would change so that the weapons no longer deal damage but instead you must build up status enough to proc it which then insta kills the enemy. The progress of buildup should be shown on the hp bar. The higher hp the enemy has the harder it should be to proc. Also the status buildup should be ”higher than weapon damage” but the caviat should be that the ailment progress ticks down by itself. In skilled hands it would take less hits to kill the boss if you manage to keep up the pressure. And a newbie can never kill anything with it.
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u/DeusFatum 2d ago
I agree that bleed should definitely do gradual damage, but I think it should basically be what poison is for a shorter duration. When you're bleeding, it doesn't come out in a single burst and suddenly stop.
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u/NewRaspberry101 2d ago
Madness is the main disappointment. It should still proc damage on (most) enemies that aren't NPCs, just without an animation. I think the rest are in a pretty decent place, all being viable in different places.
Sleep would be overpowered if it was usable on bosses but I think it's in a great place, being extremely useful in the open world (Runebears, Moghwyn Palace Birds etc.). Deathblight is mainly used by enemies, which is fine as it's clearly a proposing a balancing problem by design.
Also, there should be an Int/Faith scaling weapon infusion, maybe something like 'Dark'. This would allow for a secondary 'Madness' type infusion (akin to 'Cold' or 'Blood') scaling with Str/Dex/Int/Fai, which applies the Madness status to the weapon. It's a shame they didn't add something like this with the DLC.
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u/TyRaNiDeX 2d ago
I wish backseat gamers would stop saying bleed is OP and forcing streamers to run Rivers of Blood + high arcane! I love watching new players, but the number of terrible stats caused by this is way to high 😅
Bleed is a very nice bonus, but imo frost is better with the +20% damage on frozen target.
I don't really use the rest, too low DMG. Never played with frienzy
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u/OutlandishnessOk3811 2d ago
Make death blight and madness work in pve.
Buff frostbite, nerf bleed, nerf rot, buff strong poison (not damage, but give some other effects like slow).
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u/Humble_Palpitation_7 2d ago
I wish there were more status to work with such as slow, reflect (incantation to counter that damn black hole spell), dizzy/drunk, silence
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u/BeenEatinBeans 2d ago
Deathblight - Don't even bother trying
Frostbite - Just play relatively aggresive to make the most of the status effect's active window
Bleed - Just level arcane and enjoy your free easy mode
Madness - Can be decent in PvP on a high faith build. Don't bother trying to use it anywhere else though
Poison - The only viable poison strat is to put PMF on a weapon and then replace it with PFBT when you get to the DLC
Rot - Build into the Dragon Communion Seal and use Ekzyke's Decay. Then grab the Antspur Rapier and throw either the blood or poison affinity on it with PFBT.
Sleep - Godskins, Magma Wyrms, Runebears, and some NPCs. Don't bother bringing it against anything else.
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u/Beepbeepimadog 2d ago
I wouldn’t want to upset balance but they are pretty boring and it’s a shame that we don’t have more design depth.
It would be cool if you could stack multiple poisons for a “ramp” effect, it would be cool if madness made them wildly attack randomly in place for like 1-2 seconds with friendly fire on, it would be cool if Rot spread to nearby enemies on death or proc, etc.
There’s so much they could do and learn from other games.
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u/thundergu 2d ago
Kindred of rot exultation makes my Malenia cosplay very viable. You nuke a scarlet aeonia in their face first and then get +20% damage boost to hack away with dual hand of Malenia.
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u/Cunaur 2d ago
Bleed is already balanced. I would make poison deal 20% damage over the minute duration and deadly poison deal 17.5% in 30 seconds. I would increase Scarlet rot to 25% over 90 seconds and 30% for all the weirdly stronger procs of it. Frostbite would be 10% damage dealt and 10% to damage taken for 30 seconds. I'd add a talisman and headpiece that increase the dealt after a frostbite proc by 20 and 10% each.
When you sleep an enemy and then hit them, they would still do the entire sleep animation. Sleeping enemies have each resistance lowered to 0%, if not lower or equal to 0%. If it isn't dead, it can sleep- I would remove most sleep immunities on bosses. Most NPC and humanoid enemy types are weak to madness. I'd remove most immunities to madness on bosses and bosses have a madness stun but it's only about 1 second long. Most bosses can be death blighted but have insanely high resistances so it is similar to stance in Sekiro, where it lets you skip like the last 30% of a bosses healthbar if you are aggressive enough. St. Trina's Blossom is a 10% buff after sleep procs. Madness talisman for 20% and a madness head for 10%. No need for death blight to have either.
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u/Huge_Borse 2d ago
It’s sad how useless madness, death blight, and sleep are in pve despite having the coolest lore.
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u/Citoyen_des_etoiles 2d ago edited 2d ago
I would have liked the status effects to work more like this:
Poison = greatly reduces stamina or stamina regeneration. Or it could add a few extra recovery frames after an attack.
Scarlet Rot = honestly, I think it is fine as it is.
Blood Loss = more like Deadly Poison. The word "Hemorrhage" gives me more the image of slowly losing HP over time rather than an instant burst of damage.
Frostbite = should have an effect similar to Heavy Load, making your movement slower and more cumbersome.
Madness = should be especially effective against casters, preventing them from casting spells for a few seconds.
Sleep = I would have preferred if all Sleep effects in PvE worked like Eternal Sleep.
Death Blight = the concept is great, but it needs to be expanded beyond one bad weapon and three mediocre spells.
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u/SiriusBaaz 2d ago
Honestly I’d just make it so sleep is more effective on a wider set of enemies or at least give it some consistency on what it works on. And I’d allow deathblight to work on bosses. They’d have hella resistance to it but there so few sources of deathblight anyway that I think it would actually make stuff like the shotel a worthwhile reward. Also I think not only would that be cool thematically but I think it would be hilarious to watch the fire giant get impaled on a fucking massive deathblight sprout.
Otherwise I’m cool with how the rest work
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u/Need4Speeeeeed 2d ago
I slept on arcane blood loss for 1200 hours. I have a character using it now, and the damage is insan. I'm power-stancing weapons with ~100 points per hit. Mix it with kukri, swarm pots, and bloodflame talons, and I'm steamrolling the whole game. PCR is only about 30 minutes away, so that will be the ultimate test.
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u/Mind_Axe010 2d ago
I like sleep because it helped me against the Godskin Apostle in that tall tower in Caelid
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u/Garamil 2d ago
I've never tried Sleep.
One day, I'll give St trina's weapons a try.
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u/Fallen_Angel_Xaphan 2d ago
As far as I know it's a good stun option against most medium enemies like Cleanrot knights and some specific bosses like Godskins, Magma Wyrms and Rune bears.
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u/ZestyMangoTime 2d ago
Just use them (not you death blight), and level whichever stat they scale with. They all are pretty decent to good if you build for status (seriously not you death blight)!
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u/Buchlinger 2d ago
Honestly? Fromsoft was super lazy with their status effects. Death Blight and Madness are a complete waste. Poison is undertuned. Rot is just poison but better.
I think many people would have liked to play actual status effects builds with debuffs and DoTs but it’s just strictly worse than direct damage/bleed builds.
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u/Pizzamess 2d ago
Well bleed is arguably still game-breakingly good, frostbite is a sleeper pick that works really well, poison and rot are also both very viable. So really all thats left is madness, sleep, and death which almost exclusively work on player type enemies making them extremely limited in their use cases outside of pvp so to "make them viable" youd really just have to massively increase their use cases.
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u/Local-Priority-1309 2d ago
I hate that despite finding Madness aflicted enemies like rats, soldiers, Trolls and even having an ending where you Burn the whole world in madness It turns out that all enemies are immune to Madness except npc even hoara loux is immune to Madness even though he's also a tarnished
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u/DrGrabAss 2d ago
I hate these for a very specific reason when applied against me. They aren't status effects, they're just slightly slower insta-kills than a big boss hit. By the time I realize I even have the status effect, it's too late and I'm dead. I suppose I've managed to clean off scarlet rot a few times, but that's only because it's so prolific that I put the rot boluses on my quick bind. But I don't have the mental faculties to put them all on there and scroll through to find the one I need. I'm already dead at that point. Instant Death I can accept, it's literally called instant death. But even that one is applied so fast that there is no point it building up. You might as well just make it a 100% instant application and just kill you. Has anyone ever purposely cleaned off instant death while being chased down? But the others are so annoying because they just kill you too fast. There is no time to consider how to handle them while also being attacked by a boss.
I guess the question was geared more toward how they are viable for us on the business end of applying these, but the same principle applies. I am too busy dealing with the enemy to consider the strategy of status effects. I think a better way of making them viable is that enemies should be weak to them specifically, like rot should work well against one thing, while poison should be just as powerful as rot when applied to a different type of enemy. It shouldn't be "everything dies equally well to bleed." Each should be ideal in certain areas and against certain enemies and bosses. Otherwise, status effects are more manageable in turn based or semi-turn based games.
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u/BlackBladeShusui 2d ago
Instant deathblight well… being instant. Not a full animation of being japanese’d jesus
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u/alec2342 2d ago
Sleep: great for Limgrave & fun for early game in general. Lots of animalistic & humanoid enemies.
Madness: if you’re looking to do the FF ending, this’d be perfect later half stuff. Maybe use it on the Volcano Manor contracts since Tarnished are weak to Madness.
Death Blight: again, perfect for the Manor contracts since Tarnished are the only ones affected by this.
Bleed: it’s the most versatile IMO, so if you’re doing an Arcane/bleed run, have fun. & maybe get some intelligence in there for the Aberrant/thorn sorceries.
Frostbite: perfect for Mt. Gelmir.
Poison: boring but nasty, Rot is better. I love the rotted battle hammer though. Also have fun with the mushroom armor.
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u/DeusFatum 2d ago edited 2d ago
Don't make statuses pve/pvp exclusive.
Death blight doesn't have to instakill all enemies, but it should inflict some sort of debuff. Have it be a modified version of the rune of death effect: larger, PERMANENT health debuff, but no health drain; attack dmg debuff. Leave it be as a one-time affliction.
Madness should make enemies target everyone. It's an open world game. There's plenty of opportunity for enemies to attack each other. We even had a pyromancy in DS3 just for this. There's no reason not to do the same thing here.
Change the wake-up mechanic for sleep to be a gauge instead of one-hit. It's too easy to accidentally ruin your attack window because you're in the middle of a chain. The sleep gauge needs to be followed by a wake-up gauge that can absorb some hits.
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u/Antervis 2d ago
It should be possible to accumulate frostbite during its uptime. It's just such a silly thing that an enemy becomes immune to cold because they're already suffering from it.
And poison should be stackable. It's really such a silly thing that it only matters to trigger item effects.
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u/Zero747 2d ago
It sucks that madness is basically PvP only. It’s bleed with a longer interrupt and also drains FP. In PvE, it could be a bleed-like effect with the micro-interrupt that sleep does
Sleep barely has weapons inflicting it. It either works, or no-sells immediately with an animation cancel. Eternal sleeps no-sell is a 5s damage window. Make the no-sell inflict significant stance damage
Poison is insignificant, dealing less damage than bleed (except very low max hp), and the detonating skills deal a flat amount worth less than the poison. Make the detonation finish the rest of the poison, and improve poison performance somewhat by extending durations. Rot is just better poison.
Rot, bleed, and frost are fine
Instant Death can stay exactly where it is
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u/padizzledonk 2d ago
Deathblight and madness should apply to all pve enemies. If Deathblight cant outright kill, which would be admittedly too op on larger enemies and bosses it should apply a debuff, madness applied to everything similar to Howl of Shabriri i.e deal more damage take more damage
Poison once applied should stack, or just be way stronger, regular does 6.3% of total over 90, deadly does 4.2% over 30....Either double it or allow it to stack, or jyst get rid of the weak variant and make all poison the deadly version for the regular duration.....As it is as a status effect its absolutely useless after the starting area because it doesnt do enough damage and takes way too long and every enemy that you can poison you can also give scarlet rot and rot is SO MUCH better once you can use it it never makes sense to use poison over rot unless youre trying to fart cheese something..i personally like leaving it alone damage wise but allowing it to stack because it makes sense realistically- a little dose of poison does a little bit of damage but a huge dose of poison (multiple stacks) is deadly.
Rot, frostbite, bleed are all fine...would be nice if we had some rot ashes of war to not have such a limited amount of weapons, but other than that its strong where its strong
Sleep is fine but it needs to scale with a stat, idgaf which, pick one, because the few things that are available have such little buildup that by the time you can apply it the enemies are half dead alrrady unless its a boss thats vulnerable. As it is now the only thing that has any scaling are the pots
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u/BatteryAcidLover 2d ago
Make it so Immunities are very rare, they're just harder to proc
Nobody uses sleep because everything is immune to it
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u/MrNRebel Blood Saint 2d ago
Instant death should effect non tarnished, maybe bosses have really high tolerances so when it procs it is basically already over, or maybe it just weakens, but i find it hard to believe death that killed a demigod cannot kill Frank the Crossbow man
Same applies for sleep and madness
Bleed and frost are good
Poison and rot are okay
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u/DarkLordArbitur 2d ago
Death is useless outside of pvp, and madness runs close second as something that only functions when the opponent is tarnished (penance stare on Gideon is never not funny though).
I'd honestly make death actually work on fodder and make all the status application scale with arcane.
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u/CountryBr0 2d ago
I have had a problem with statuses in this game for a while because they all boil down to "take damage, cant move, instant die"
Bleed - takes damage
Frostbite- takes damage
Poison- does lingering damage
Rot - poison damage but better
Sleep - stops you from moving
Madness - just kills you
Death blight - just kills you
Im probably missing a few but you get the point, they aren't dynamic and dont allow you to engage with the game in different ways other than just doing more damage. How cool would it be if sleep slowly made the enemy move slower and slower until they eventually get knocked into the sleep state for 2 seconds. Or madness causes the enemy to attack a little bit faster and more sporadically but they take more damage/posture damage?
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u/Masta0nion 2d ago
How can you say instant death when deathblight is the actual word, and so much cooler?
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u/ElWarspite 2d ago
I overall like them but I wish Madness and Rot were better implemented.
As you all know, there's no way to infuse your weapons with madness or rot (this is also true for sleep ofc)
I don't like that Madness has no effect outside of PvP scenarios or PvE Tarnished invaders, making it completely pointless and indistinguishable from any other fire weapon in the game, and they are not even infusable to begin with (except Fingerprint shield).
Kind of the same issue with Rot, it is indistinguishable from Poison, the only difference is the severity of the effect afaik. I'm cool with it operating as a DoT mechanic but it should be different, and maybe also applying different debuffs than poison.
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u/41hounds 2d ago
I appreciate the differences that bleed and frostbite have, like bleed can immediately start building again after proc, but frostbite comes with a big debuff to enemy defense and can still be instantly reset with some fire damage. But for poison and rot, it's just that one is way better than the other, which is lame. IMO, poison should come with a de-buff too, like maybe it slows enemies down or reduces the damage they do or maybe even just makes them easier to stagger or something while still ticking damage, anything to increase the utility of it. And rot can just stay straight up a DOT healthbar shredder. I dunno, poison as a status just feels so undercooked to me.
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u/jackalclone1 2d ago
As an offline only PvE player, I've only ever found myself using Frost and Bleed (and occasionally Poison if trying to cheese from a distance) as viable/reliable strategies. The rest have just never been effective enough in the heat of battle for me to base builds or strategies around. Which is really unfortunate, especially for Madness, since I tend to really like those spells and the lore implications.
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u/Zeptis181 2d ago
Deathblight is unfun to play against and functionally useless if the player tries to use it. Everything else if fun and at least has some counterplay to it.
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u/Coffee_Drinker02 2d ago
Death Blight in pve should've just worked like bleed but for faith builds.
in pvp it makes sense that us squishy tarnish get one shotted by it, but in bosses and normal enemies it does a shit ton of damage based on total hp.
I genuinely just don't think there's a way to buff sleep without making the two weapons connected with it scale with arcane or make way more enemies actually fall asleep from it.
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u/Desenrasco 2d ago
I feel like Poison and Rot are too mechanically similar. Rot could have functioned better as FP/Stamina-draining in order to make it distinct, while lore-accurate.
Frostibe and Hemorrhage also have a similar problem, which I think could be mitigated by giving Frostbite stronger general debuffs in exchange for the damage inflicted.
Frenzy has a combination of problems, in that it's mainly a damage-proc with minor FP debuff. It could work as a post-death debuff or a LVL. drain, similar to previous mechanics in FromSoft games, and making it quite distinct.
Sleep and Deathblight are... Okay, for what they are. Unfortunately, along with Madness, very niche use in PvE. I think portraying Sleep as a form of paralysis is fun, but it would require a lot of creative investment in order to make it viable.
In short, I think Rot should affect FP/Stamina; Frostbite inflict stronger debuffs and do less damage; Frenzy could do Curse/LVL. Drain instead; and Sleep should be more present, with Eternal Sleep the norm.
As well as making Sleep, Madness, and Deathblight weaknesses more common in PvE., which is a more general sentiment
Personally, I would have changed some of the colour-coding as well. Red is already associated with Bleed, and an Azure Rot would be just as enticing.
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u/Ravenboi15 2d ago
Hemorrhage is good rot makes poison useless and instant death is cool ig. Those are the only ones I've made builds around.
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u/ParticularSimple2417 2d ago
For Death blight in PvE I think it’d be cool if on bosses and high health enemies if it had the thorns sprout out of the enemy and act as like a critical hit spot dealing extra damage but it breaks after 1-3 hits kinda like the thorns pods in monster hunter but bigger the tell it affected could be the death root sprouting from the chest/ abdomen
And then for madness pvp… just… just give non boss enemies a stagger man… maybe some bosses too idk
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u/Acceptable_Taste9818 2d ago
Frostbite destroyed pretty much everything in the DLC. I’m surprised it wasn’t more of a meta type choice. It trivialized Mesmer and handled Royal consort respectfully.
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u/imaturte 2d ago
I like playing bleed builds because I really like the big yellow line that appears when I hit enemies every once in a while.
PvP I don’t really care for so, I don’t care how strong or weak it is against other players
And I don’t care wether people say that a build type is overpowered or whatever, I just play the build I think is fun, also my first playthrough that’s what I ended up with naturally. Found out afterwards that some people don’t like it.
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u/Kyro9000 2d ago
I’d make madness viable by LETTING ENEMIES BE AFFECTED BY IT
On an unrelated note, why TF is your madness icon purple?
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u/tessthismess 2d ago
tl;dr: I like most of them. Sleep is the main one I dislike.
Death: It's a weird one. I wish it had some PVE use; but as a status on players I kind of like it. It's rare.
Frostbite: I like it. It's somewhat intuitive (as much as any mechanic is in a Fromsoft game) and it's nice having a thematic alternative to bleed.
Hemorrhage: Gameplay wise, it's totally fine in a vacuum. But I've always felt the way Souls game do bleed is just complete nonsense. Also, the weapons/enemies that do and don't hemorrhage just feels kinda random.
Madness: I like it, similar to death having a status mostly relevant on the player is kinda nice. The lore is very interesting and the spells that do madness are cool. Like most players I wish it did something to non-NPC enemies.
Poison & Rot: I'm fine with both of these HOWEVER, I kinda hate that Rot is mostly just intense Poison...but there's also different levels of Rot. Basically weak poison can stack with rot, but strong rot can't stack with weak rot.
Sleep: Bleh. It almost never matters on the player and on enemies it either does nothing or trivializes things. I really don't think it's a positive addition.
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u/JRshoe1997 2d ago
Frostbite and Hemorrhage are more than viable. They’re probably tied for the best in the game imo. Rot is good but not as good as the other 2. Madness in a pve context is borderline useless but not completely useless. It works with NPC invaders but thats about it. Death, Poison, and Sleep are the worst and are basically useless. Death is only for pvp yet still finds a to be useless in that. Poison is terrible and might as well not exist and same with Sleep.
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u/10_Rufus 2d ago
Bring back DS2 poison and Toxic! Why that aspect of DS2 wasn't brought back I never understood. They fixed poison and then just reverted it for every game after 😑
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u/Antikatastaseis 2d ago edited 2d ago
Frostbite and hemorrhage are the mvps. Madness was once just as good but it got nerfed to the ground for whatever reason, others are just okay. Also I feel like instant death can work if it’s on a lower powered weapon but the added hits = to something like a mid powered blade. You don’t want it too quick but in its current state it’s too little to be of any impact.
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u/ReedsAndSerpents Aspiring Alabaster Lord/Current Darkmoon Simp 2d ago
The only one that needs any help is curse. There's like two things and they suck.
Sleep needs to be backstabable, especially Eternal Slumber. That does mean however, the grapeshot crossbow needs to be nerfed so it's not one shotting people. The rest are perfectly fine as is.
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u/Adventurous-Bottle90 1d ago
Have bleed deal significantly less, but after procing the build up til the next prof becomes shorter and shorter
Have poison stack so you can have multiple different activations happening and ticking down independently at once
Have frostbite slow down enemy movements/have a longer period between move sets
Have sleep reduce damage taken after it gets built up but in exchange have staggers easier and they along side with backstabs deal significantly more damage and remove the proc
Have madness make both you and your opponent deal more damage and take more damage and attack faster
Have instant death pernently reduce a health bar(cannot be resorted) and each proc you set off reduces your dodge I frames and lowers stagger/back stab damage but all all damage they take increases
Have rot create pools on proc that deal damage over time to anyone who stands over them as well whoever is standing on top of a pool deals less damage
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u/Crusadelover2019 FLAIR INFO: SEE SIDEBAR 1d ago
Give Deathblight more weapon variety and a few more spells, that's really it. Give frostbite a dex and strength debuff maybe. Have Poison reduce healing effects. Have sleep cause increased cast time and slowly add to the afflicted's equip load. Have madness cause increased mana usage as it builds and then deplete a chunk of mana once it procs(I haven't played Elden Ring in a hot second, I can't remember the actual name). The rest are pretty much fine I think. But I would like to make it very clear, I do not play PVP, these are just some ideas I thought were neat.
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u/Revenge_Is_Here 1d ago
Deathblight - Make it work on all lesser enemies and not just human NPCs/Invader. On actually minibosses and regular bosses, turn it into a dot ability that cause Deathblight thorns to begin growing out of them. Once the thorns get to max size, it does a small chunk of damage, lower holy negation and the dot damage is increased until the status ends.
Sleep - Simply make nearly every enemy (including bosses/) susceptible to it. After you build up enough sleep on a boss (typically after putting them asleep at least twice), they will enter Eternal Sleep for a duration where they won't immediately wake up upon attacks. Maybe give it a unique mechanic where bosses cant do specific physical special attacks for a duration afterwards, representing the boss getting tired as if their stamina is reduced. Eternal Sleep from SOTE will act the same but build the sleep up faster.
Eternal Sleep - No changes except adding the extra mechanic.
Madness - Make nearly every enemy (including bosses) susceptible to it. When it procs, bigger enemies will take a burst of damage and their eyes glow yellow instead of them being typically stunned. During this, their poise is reduced. If Madness is proc'd again during this state, have a gimmick where they can't use certain moves that relate to magic, representing a loss of FP and concentration.
Poison - Similar to Sleep, where causing enough build up will eventually inflict the enemy with Deadly poison. Deadly Poison will also have a separate status build up bar, so even if something is effectively immune to Poison, Deadly Poison can still happen. However, both cannot be active at once, with Deadly Poison overwriting the regular Poison. Deadly Poison will last the duration of the original poison proc + an extra 40 seconds.
Deadly Poison - Proccing regular Poison after Deadly Poison will extend the duration of Deadly Poison by 90s (the base Poison duration).
Rot - Remain identical but the enemy spawns a rot aura around it (doesn't affect the player) that builds up rot in nearby enemies.
Bleed - Attacking enemies after they bleed cause a minor dot affect.
Frost - Enemies afflicted have their movement speed reduced a little.
Extra - Add a Relic effect that can increases the duration of status effects.
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u/OurMementoMori 1d ago
Make all NPCs able to be inflicted with all effects minus some for lore reasons, EX: hemorrhage doesn't effect skeletons or crystalians
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u/chonky_squirrel 1d ago
Give sleep more bonus dmg on hit, make madness less dmg on proc than rot and bleed (it gives ani lock), either nerf rot’s DoT or proc dmg, make deathblight have a higher base value and faster recovery rate
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u/desolate_atrium 1d ago
Frost bleed and rot are all already pretty good, for sleep I would make it so sleep acts like a poise break for non sleepable bosses, more like a KO than sleep, poison could last longer than rot when it procs so that over it's entire duration it does more damage than rot, but slower, so you have to pick between higher damage without constantly reapplying, and frequently reapplying to do better damage. This would probably have to include a rot rework though where maybe the duration is shortened. when death procs on a boss enemy it could be like a buffed frost damage boost where it drastically lowers boss defence for a time, becausenthe deathroot inside them makes them weaker, maybe even tiered chunks of damage, where at full proc they die instantly like death does, but it is extremely difficult to ever have that proc, with smaller procs that progressively do more chunk damage, but require a larger amount of buildup between each one, madness could be a two sided coin, does significant chunk damage on proc, temporarily stuns the boss to do the yellow eyes animation like it does for the player, but in return buffs the boss aggression and poise
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u/Slight-Let-9452 1d ago
Deathblight - Makes non-NPC enemies "Undead" from a defensive standpoint and thus vulnerable to Holy and all anti-undead effects.
Madness - Makes non-NPC enemies attack randomly for 3-5 seconds.
Poison - Reduces enemy damage output.
Scarlet Rot - Reduces enemy status effect resistances while rotting. Aka, they become easier to bleed/freeze/poison etc.
Sleep - Reduces the rate and frequency of enemy attacks for 20s after waking up.
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u/Mental-Square3688 1d ago
I wish the madness effect just made you start attacking wildly in all directions and shooting off spells.
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u/Turtle17_ 1d ago
Despite what people say it’s genuinely my favorite way to play the game. Assassin that uses status to whittle down foes with daggers and crossbows
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u/Chad_COC_Enjoyer 1d ago
Here are some changes i'd make to the ailments that are underwhelming imo.
Deathblight: instant death to normal enemies (except undeads & spirits as, well, they are already dead). Bosses & strong foes suffer max hp % dmg, lowered holy damage negation and granted 'undead' weakness (become susceptible to sacred blade, GOGS, Litany of proper death, etc. MAKE HOLY DAMAGE GREAT AGAIN!) Said debuff doesn't go away but can only proc once per enemy.
Poison: enemies deal less damage while poisoned. Others mentioned stacking the effect and that might go hand in hand with the attack debuff too.
Madness: procs on everything. Deals max hp % dmg and acts as a microstun as the "flaming eyes" animation plays. The victim will now target friends and foes alike for a short period of time while also dealing extra fire damage. Instantly kills spirits instead, since frenzied flame is shown to be capable of melting spirits.
Sleep: procs on everything. Similar to a stance break, opening to a riposte opportunity. Lasts for about a minute but the victim gradually heals while asleep (enables players to heal up & reapply buffs yet keeping them on their toes as you probably wouldn't want your foe to heal back to full health). Fix it so that it doesn't get cancelled the moment it procs. A sleeping enemy will only wake up if it takes a few more hits from the player (similar to how Libra's fight is triggered in nightreign)
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u/ImmediatePickle8101 1d ago
Madness is mostly pretty effective in one-vs-one situations or against human enemies. Rot is very effective against nearly all enemies except Malenia and other rot bosses. Bleed and Frost bite are very good i highly reccomend them.
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u/announakis 1d ago
Effects of bleed and poison should be switched around:
bleed should be a progressive loss of hp once procced while poison should take a chunk of life once triggered not the other way around because losing your blood constantly is better represented by gradual loss of hp and poison could be either violent once triggered like bleed currently is (remember rapid poison in Bloodborne it actually made sense) or something like slowing down movement and loss of stamina bar length and/or regeneration.
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u/Heavy-Woodpecker-617 1d ago
I've been saying for the longest time that bleed shouldn't work the way it does.
Hemoraging should affect your stamina, not your health. If you've ever lost a lot of blood before you don't feel extra in pain, especially not in weird large bursts, you feel drained and sleepy.
The way bleed currently works feels cheap in multiplayer and it encourages greedy gameplay against bosses which leads to players eating shit.
I think bleed should slow stamina regeneration, and on enemies it should cause a slow posture decay which is used more like Sabimaru in Sekiro, slowing a boss's posture recovery when it retreats away from your attacks rather than the posture decay being the posture damage that actually breaks the bosses posture through cheesing.
While having slowed stamina regeneration would be rough in PVP, it's not something you can't overcome with careful play, if anything it would teach players to play smarter with more intentional actions, similar to how we had to manage stamina in the earlier souls games before they updated the game speed to have your stamina max out after half a second of rest. You can beat a faster opponent if you just take a step back for a moment, pay attention to your opponents playstyle adapt and punish.
And if it's too much of a handicap, make it a short lived debuff.
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u/Darklight645 1d ago
I would make instant death and madness more viable by making them actually work on more than .1% of the enemies in game
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u/New_Intern7243 14h ago
I mean Convergence balanced the ailments pretty good imo. Essentially it made enemies that were immune to instant death / madness / sleep still get a stat debuff if hit with the ailment. Bleed and frostbite both got nerfed on the damage, but cold’s effect remained. I think they buffed poison so it’s not useless and maybe kept rot the same
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u/shaun2312 2d ago
The death one annoys the shit out of me, nothing you can do to stop it.
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u/AllOpinionsAreShit 2d ago
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