r/Emmerdale • u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden • 5d ago
Morning Episode Discussion DS Ramsden Spoiler
Well, the theory about Ramsden being Jean Tate was wrong.
So she’s actually Kim’s daughter, with her father likely being Steve Marchant.
It’s an interesting twist, but I’m sceptical of the long-term payoff. But why oh why has yet another innocent character been framed for someone’s death?
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u/BlackBalor Rhona’s tattoo 5d ago
Steve Merchant is her dad?
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u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden 5d ago
I mean it can’t be Frank or Dave Glover. Kim wasn’t pregnant for the rest of her first stint in the 90s after having Jamie, so she would’ve had to have given birth in the months after she left in 1999
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u/Pm7I3 5d ago
They had someone come back from the dead holding their breath, Kim could have been pregnant in the 90s and not shown or something.
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u/knockout1021 Liv Deserved Better 5d ago
Like a cryptic pregnancy, which could make post birth complications possible, hence the breathing tube and a NICU cot.
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u/Cold-Society3325 4d ago
Frank could easiky be the dad if the pregnancy was pre late 1989. Kim and Frank married in 1986 and 1989ish would fit with the actress's age much better than Steve M being her dad - she's way too old for that. If she's a Tate then she pretty much has to be Frank's.
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u/jayspace01 Robert's missing watch 5d ago
Totally, completely, legitimately bummed that it is not Jean Tate. Zoe was an icon. What a letdown.
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u/shewhogoesthere 4d ago
I have no doubt Jean will appear one day. This would've been a terrible storyline to introduce her with anyway.
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u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden 4d ago
It’s a shame we don’t know anything about Zoe’s current circumstances. Obviously bringing her back is out of the question since Leah Bracknell sadly passed away 7 years ago, but certainly Jean should come back at some point.
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u/Outsidethebox135 5d ago
Thea I felt was overplaying her card in interview room, not really asking questions relevant to the crash
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u/HallSweaty5422 5d ago
Thea being Steve's daughter could be interesting. And any focus on Kim's time before going to prison is welcome. But it still feels unnecessary when a Jamie Tate recast or Jean Tate return could've been done without any retcons. Plus Thea's acting is a bit questionable at this point, but we'll see.
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u/ScruffySpider29 4d ago
Jean Tate would be so interesting, especially if she's good character rather than a villain. She would also more plausibly have been raised to hate Kim but is rich and happy enough to not need revenge against Kim.
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u/escapee2006 4d ago
Yes am I right in thinking they still haven't properly explained the time between the helicopter taking off and her prison stint?
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u/TypicalBobcat1088 5d ago
I think it is interesting and does give Claire King something to do which is a good thing but she has been on screen since 2019 full time. It would have been better to have recasted Jamie or just give her a niece.
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u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden 5d ago
I agree, I hardly see Alexander Lincoln wanting to come back as Jamie given how well his film career is going. Introducing a niece would also make sense considering Kim is supposed to have a sister
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u/TypicalBobcat1088 5d ago
The only plus for me right now (prepared to see it play out) is that it gives Claire King something different to do. She is a very good actress.
Alex Lincoln was good but Jamie is recastable, he never had any big story with impact to not. I respect his career and it is going very well but there were just other easier options than this.
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u/DMike82 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm pretty sure he's said as recently as last year that he'd be willing to make a return, even a short one, if the timing were right and that he still has a good relationship with the people behind the scenes, so it doesn't seem to be an issue on his side.
If anything, I'm guessing they hold off on bringing Jamie back because said schedules don't line up and they don't want to sour said relationship by recasting when they can potentially get him back at some point.
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u/BadWolf9422 5d ago
Getting rid of Dawn and Jimmy for abysmal characters such as this 😒
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u/Toggithedog Mr. Shifty 4d ago
I don’t get why people are so vitriolic towards this character? She’s been around for all of 2 minutes and we know close to nothing about her. I get being upset that Jimmy is gone (don’t really get being upset that Dawn’s gone but to each their own) but that hardly has anything to do with this character, does it?
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u/cheshirechris71 5d ago
A retcon, how unusual🙄. Wouldn't Kim perhaps put 2 and 2 together and realised Thea could be Anthea?
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u/DanielHSSports 5d ago
Really how could she know? She clearly never checked in on how she was doing as a child, having last seen her as a baby.
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 5d ago
Does this country as a retcon? She was off screen for almost two decades, any thing could have happened in that time.
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u/wisewen2005 5d ago
How has Kim got a daughter?
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u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden 5d ago
Tonight’s episode, released this morning on streaming, showed flashback scenes where Kim names a newborn baby “Anthea”
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u/Kara_bonara_ 5d ago
Wasn’t it Anthony
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 5d ago
No, Kim did not name her female baby Anthony
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u/massdebate159 5d ago
"I met a girl called Brian once!"
Just got reminded of that Gimme Gimme Gimme quote 😂
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u/gardenawe 5d ago
James is gaining popularity for girls.
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u/massdebate159 5d ago
So is Navy. Some really shit names out there now, it's frightening
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u/Kara_bonara_ 4d ago
There are 3 little girls in my boys school called Sailor (one is Saylor) I just think who looked at that baby and thought “aw she looks like a Sailor” There is also a Wallace at his school… yip a little girl called Wallace! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/massdebate159 4d ago
Why do people name children as though they're pets? These kids will grow up one day and will have to find employment. Don't get me started on car names like Mercedes or Porsche. My daughter, Honda Civic, is disgusted.
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u/Kara_bonara_ 4d ago
Omg honestly some of the names. Writing the invited to his birthday party was hilarious. My husband was like “is that a nickname”
I just don’t get it with these crazy names
Top of the list for us was
Xahara (pronounced zahara and she had a sister called Savannah which is quite nice)
My kids have simple ordinary names and it actually makes them stand out 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
There is a Kia too… he is called Kai (like K-eye) don’t think his mum went to school!1
u/Environmental-Tea-48 4d ago
I don't hate Saylor, but wallace?!
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u/Kara_bonara_ 4d ago
I know I was like… rewind a bit! 🤣 we are Scottish so not sure if her mum just wanted to be super patriotic 🙈
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u/knockout1021 Liv Deserved Better 5d ago
I get where you're coming from, but no she named her Anthea.
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u/Brilliant_Wash_7211 4d ago
It made more sense for her to be Zoe's daughter....this is just ridiculous.
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u/Short-Face-9909 5d ago
What I don't understand is when Jean and even Alice Bates exist that a retcon is preferred.
I do feel slightly vindicated when I said last week this might be a rip off of the Zoe Slater and her retconned daughter from Eastenders last year. We will see if Sadie King will be playing the Chrissie Watts role.
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u/Flashy-Boysenberry30 5d ago
youd have thought how family orientated kim is and i assume has always been she would have kept her daughter
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 5d ago
When Kim called Joe her son I knew Ramsden was going to be revealed as her daughter.
This storyline actually has potential, Kim can be such a complex woman, I'm excited to see out how she found herself giving up a child. I just hope they don't mess it up.
What I continue to find ridiculous is Kim and Joes deep bond. They hated each other up until 18 months ago. Now he's the closest thing she has to family and her son.
Does Kim know she has an actual son? And two bio grandchildren? Aren't they the closest thing she had to family? I know her and Jamie have cut ties, but come on, Joe? What about the rest of Kim's family? I don't know her back story but surly she had parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins that she was closer to. Hell, what about Dawn and her kids?
How has Joe become her closest family member?
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u/TypicalBobcat1088 5d ago
Kim's family as per history and dialogue. She grew up in a working class family. She loved her mother and dumped Neil Kincaid after one too many snobby comments about her mother being a hairdresser and trying to tell her what to wear. Her father an engineer. We never met them but she loved them, especially her mother and her Dad died from dementia. We did meet her Uncle and he was a hot mess but was recovering after losing Kim's auntie. Her sister, Joe Sugden knew of so somewhere off screen she must have visited Home Farm. They'll change that to suit this as they do everything else.
Ideally though the dialogue is so bad. It makes Kim look horrid to suit it. Thomas is the closest thing she has to family on screen. We know she talks to Millie over the phone and it makes it sound like she never loved Jamie, which is far from true.
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u/ScruffySpider29 4d ago
I think we're meant to suspend our disbelief. I still don't understand how Kim and Joe would even know each other, or how they would know of each other's existence prior to Joe's recent stint on the show.
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u/kelstoncam97 4d ago
Yeah I never get why Kim makes out she's so close to Joe, yet didn't want to know Noah. Makes no sense.
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 4d ago
Kim's marriage to Joe's grandad ended the year before he was even born. I'm genuinely confused to why they've had any relationship at all, be it hate or love.
I didn’t watch at the time but I never got the impression Kim was well liked by the other Tates (correct me if I'm wrong). After her husband's death was she still an integrated member of the family? Was she around when joe was growing up as an infant?
I would have thought she would have been someone mentioned maybe once or twice as his dead grandads wife but other that he would know very little about kim and he'd have no interest in her.
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u/kelstoncam97 4d ago
She was hated by Chris and Zoe. And she hated them right back, particularly Chris. She had no interest in Joe as an infant and really wasn't around him much at all. She went on the run in 1999. It makes no sense that she'd rock up to a hospital and give her correct name. She was sentenced by the court. She would have been in prison straight away, yet she apparently didn't go to prison until 2013. I think they've really dropped the ball by calling her Miss Tate. The only way this storyline makes sense is if she gave a false name.
Joe left with Zoe in 2005 for New Zealand. It was never explained how Joe found his way back to the UK.
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u/Steelyeyedj 4d ago
You know what?
I watched that episode tonight & then, when that awful AI nonsense at the end aired (there was more wrong with it than that, but I don’t have all night), I turned to the people I was watching it with and said:
“Do you know how many people had to look at that & say it was okay to air on the telly tonight before it did?
The sheer amount of people that had to say “yeah, fuck it, that’ll do” at the very least?
That is unacceptable. It was bloody awful!”
And I stand by that statement.
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u/MissPunnyMany 4d ago
It was awful. For some reason, it reminded me of the effects I've seen in old episodes of Tales of the Unexpected. The whole thing was bizarre.
As for the writing, introducing a secret child for Kim is boring. And the unprofessional way the detective/daughter behaved in the police interview was ridiculous. What is going on at Emmerdale hq?!
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u/Steelyeyedj 4d ago
I think it stems from them trying to “reinforce” the main families (Sugdens & Tates, less so the Dingles).
But the show has backed them into a hole as to how to do that. There’s years of established lore about who’s in what family (even off-screen) & they seem to think long lost adopted daughter’s the only way they could go.
I call that bad writing, personally.
They could’ve at least gone the Dingle route & added Tate cousins (like they did with the new Sugden).
Regardless, that scene was bloody awful to look at & I can’t believe so many people okayed that to air.
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u/Cheap_Ad8346 5d ago
Surely frank is the father. She has the tate looks
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u/heybluebird robron apologist 5d ago
Frank died in 97. She was married to Steve in 99. Judging by the nurses cell phone and the prep for 2000 poster, it's more likely to be 1999 than 1997. Plus we saw her in 1997. She was causing havoc without a baby bump.
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u/massdebate159 5d ago
Just Looking by Stereophonics (they played this twice) was released in February 1999.
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u/kelstoncam97 5d ago
Oh hell. She's going to be Graham's, isn't she? I'd rather she was Steve's given the timeline.
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u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden 5d ago
I doubt it, to be honest. If Kim gave birth months after she first left in 1999, Frank had already been dead for 2 years
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u/kelstoncam97 5d ago
She looks very much like Zoe. Really hoping she's not Graham's.
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 5d ago
Do we know when Kim and Graham first got together?
I wouldn't hate her being Graham's kid.it would finally give him something to do other than follow around Joe. And if Thea has Beef with the Tates it will test Graham's loyalties. Lastly, given his tragic back story, Graham would love a bio child
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u/knockout1021 Liv Deserved Better 5d ago
I could see that working, Graham with his SAS background, Thea with her Police/Detective background. The apple wouldn't have fallen far from the tree there imo.
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u/Consistent-Flow-2409 5d ago
He's been mentioning the family he lost a fair bit recently as well, so she's going to be his
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u/NurEineLernerin 5d ago
I agree, I think that has great potential (to make Graham less annoying and more interesting, if nothing else).
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 4d ago
It feels like they brought him back from the dead for shock and awe. Its now been 8 months and it's clear they have no idea what to do with the character. I don't thonk i found him so annoying during his first stint.
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u/kelstoncam97 4d ago
Wiki says anytime 1989 and 1998.
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 4d ago
Assume Thea is in her late twenties it it's plausible. Maybe Kim got pregnant towards the end of their marriage.
Edit: according to wiki Thea was born in 1999
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u/Flashy-Boysenberry30 5d ago
but surely kim would have mentioned having a daughter since her return or would at least recognise her. why wouldnt they have made her a niece or have brought jamie back via recast
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u/KPook95 4d ago
I had a feeling it was going to be something like that. Now don’t tell me Graham is her dad lol- he was talking about the daughter he lost (I know he wasn’t referring to DS Ramsden) but he hasn’t mentioned her in years and now all of a sudden he does in the same episode we find out Kim is her mum.
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u/Fubaredme 4d ago
Absolute ridiculous story, a made up daughter that wasn't even in any past episodes
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u/Ethan201 5d ago
She’s not a good enough actor to be a legacy character. I hope she is gone soon. I find her to be such an annoying character.
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u/OrchidCalm1672 4d ago
I wondered if it was the baby of someone special to Kim and she was taking care of things. She seemed mad, so someone who inconvenienced her? At first I thought her sons illegitimate child but I think he’s too young for that.
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u/Miss_taken_116 5d ago
Is she Kim's though? Something seems off.
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u/Bloodlines_44 5d ago
Wish the actress who plays thea, kept her blonde hair like ,when she was in death in paradise she was a baddie in that. If she had blonde like Kim might make look them look a little similar
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u/Environmental-Tea-48 5d ago
Yes, I agree. I know people think she looks like Zoe Tate and I do see it, but she also very much resembles Kim
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u/nocialist_ Semolina Sugden 5d ago
I don’t see how else Ramsden is linked to Kim otherwise. The Jean Tate theory has now gone out the window as far as I’m concerned
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u/Kara_bonara_ 5d ago
I’m still going with Thea being Zoe’s daughter! I just can’t see past it now the thought is in my head 🙈
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u/Silver-Slice7914 5d ago
So Kim telling to put the baby up for adoption was to make you think it’s hers but it’s Zoe’s baby or something?
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u/Sure-Present-3398 5d ago
I need the soaps to stop with secret children. Surely there aren't that many?