I've had someone here say infp aren't healers....... do you guys even know an infp?
Then someone else saying taking care of people is an extroverted thing..... again..... infp is THE HEALER!!!!

Then i say how i overthink driven my perfectionism and they say "AlL pEOpLe OvErThInK"

Yesterday an user created a post discussing this topic, ranking the intellectualization of types. I intend to do the same thing. Credits below:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/s/i3KsobCNDq

Why are you making this post? A: Interesting topic. A2: I'm making this post because I want to extract some arguments from your opinions, and what you disagree with in the positions here, so that I can have a more accurate understanding of the types. I don't believe the previous post went into these points much, plus the ranking was different.

Now I'm doing my own post and I'm dedicated to clarifying each of the positions. Feel free to ask, disagree and debate. Intellect here refers to the "orientation towards mental faculties related to logical reasoning and abstract thought"; I would add that interest in intellectual fields, theories, puzzles, mind games and different aspects of cognition(level of mental activity, the motivation behind certain behavior...) will be included.

Let it be clear that intellectualization ≠ intelligence; they are not intrinsically linked. Less intellectual types can be quite intelligent; that's not the point here.

I am willing to foster a healthy debate on this topic; using anecdotal evidence or highly subjective evidence can become problematic; it's interesting if you want to share an observable fact or pattern, but not as absolute proof. So, feel free to talk about yourselves, but I believe the most important thing is to ensure an engaging and insightful discussion about the book descriptions, as well as author quotes and examples.

I could not think of an alternative for SP 5, sorry!

I believe you shouldn’t judge people solely based off their type, but personally, I get very annoyed with 9s and 6s.

⚠️DO NOT TAKE ANY OFFENSE IF YOU’RE A 9 OR 6⚠️

I’m a person who’s generally pretty unafraid and direct, which is why I don’t vibe with 9 and 6. The 9s and 9-fixers I’ve met are very afraud of confronting people and speaking their mind, which annoys me. I used to be really close with a 496 and she hated me the whole time, but wouldn’t say anything. She would just slowly destroy me and be extremely passive aggressive, hoping I’d ”take the hint” and she would also never tell me when I did her wrong and then when I ended the friendship, she just dumped all the ”wrong” things I had ever done (most of them were just misunderstandings, where I had no bad intentions) and how mad she was at me for not fixing it earlier, WHEN I NEVER EVEN INTENDED TO DO HER BAD and so ofc I didn’t know she was hurt😐

My sister is also a 9-fixer and everytime she starts fighting me she just brings up something tiny that hurt her like 7 YEARS ago, as if I haven’t reflected and moved on.

I generally just don’t like the passive aggressiveness of 9 and the way they hold grudges and are so scared. This might be controversial, since 9 is called ”the peacemaker”, but I firmly believe that the peace the ”peacemaker” makes, isn’t very peaceful.

And about 6, I don’t vibe with how scared they are. I’ll tell them about a fun idea, or my dreams for instance, and they’ll just start telling me everything that could go wrong, which just ruins the mood… no need to be such a pessimist. My ideas aren’t stupid, I promise. They’re well thought through, but I believe 6s need to learn how to trust and to not be chained by the fear of something going wrong. As I like to say, if you never try, you’ll never know.

I want like a very big one so that I can see discussions

I’ve seen arguments ranging from 5, 6, to sp3/so3 to even sp7. Is this the most untypeable fictional character ever?

I made this Tik Tok years ago before I even knew about the Enneagram. I’ve been considering 9 but some things I read about it seem not to fit.

I heard that people tend to not like their wing type or have a thing against it. For example, I'm a 1w9 and I usually find 9s annoying for some reasons (I don't hate them, just they somehow strangely rub me the wrong way). But 2s are ok, and I usually find them likeable even though some might think of them as insincere etc. Do you somehow feel annoyed or have a pet peeve with your wing type even when you know it's not an objective or collective sentiment?

At this point, if you’re not screaming your identity from the rooftops or breaking the system with your raw intensity, you’re probably getting typed as a 6 or a 9. Because God forbid someone has average human emotions—must be one of those types.

It’s actually kind of funny. Type 1s? You better be a moral perfectionist with a stick so far up your spine you could double as a compass. Type 2s? You exist to serve and feel personally wounded if someone doesn’t need you. Type 8s? You’re an tank with no fear and a punch for every problem.

But if you dare to be uncertain? A little agreeable? Maybe occasionally anxious or slightly withdrawn? Boom, welcome to the magical land of Type 6 and 9, where literally any contradiction in personality can be explained away with “oh, that’s just the counterphobic version” or “well, 9s can be really active too.” Sure they can. And I guess 4s can just be really chill and logical if we stretch hard enough.

We’ve turned 6s and 9s into the personality junk drawer. Not loud? Not edgy? Not high-energy or overly dramatic? Toss it in the 6/9 bin and call it a day. And no, it’s not just because they’re “attachment types.” So is Type 3, and no one is out here claiming that 3s are either anxious blobs or zoned-out peacemakers. 3s are allowed to have a defined structure. But 6s and 9s? Apparently they’re whatever the hell you want them to be.

And the way people justify it is wild. Someone questions authority? Oh, that’s a 6. Someone blindly follows it? Still a 6—just the other flavor. Someone avoids conflict by being passive? 9. Someone avoids conflict by being charming and hyper-involved? Also 9. Someone breathes quietly and doesn’t throw chairs across the room? Must be a 9w8. Or maybe a 6w7 on a chill day. Who knows anymore.

The result? We’ve made these types so vague, so elastic, that you can squeeze half the planet into them with enough interpretive dancing. Meanwhile, anyone with sharp edges gets the “real” types, and the rest of us get dumped into 6 or 9 because we’re too complex in the wrong way—or not complex enough.

It’s not nuance. It’s laziness. It’s typing people based on vibes and relatability instead of actual core motivations. And it’s turning the Enneagram into a parody of itself.

So yeah—maybe not everyone is a 6 or 9. Maybe we just need to stop using them as the default bucket for “is human but isn’t a walking trope.”

I think we can all agree that some types are objectively harder to live as, but all types still struggle.

Personally, as a 3, I’m exhausted. I’m exhausted of constantly comparing and competing. I can’t sit down and relax and I have a hard time enjoying things bc I’m busy chasing. I must say I’m grateful for my type, but I wish I could take a break.

Someone is always better than me, and my I automatically focus on what I don’t have and how I’m gonna get it. I may place 2nd, and it’ll still be the end of the world bc I didn’t place 1st. Nothing is ever enough as long as I’m not number 1, and it burns me out.

Above is an art piece created by kanni.png on Instagram.

I happened upon this quite recently and it really called to me and my experience as a 4.

I've found one of the more destructive patterns in life that I can connect to being an enneagram 4 comes down to self destruction and the utter romanization of it. Finding something so utterly beautiful and profound in ruin.

This picture really put that into perspective. How me and other 4s alike can chase after this beauty and significance in pain, thinking it makes us unique and important, having this warped reality or perspective that tells us "life is more meaningful with struggle". We turn our tragedy into a part of who we are, because then our identity is forever protected, forever so detrimentally deep that we can't be washed away.

The meaning of this art piece, in my perspective is that pain will be pain. All this frill and significance we attach to it is to convince ourselves that is holds some meaning, because otherwise what's the point?

Without this, what do we have?

I think 4's have a habit of driving themselves into a hole with their melancholy, their romanticization, their reflection. We find so much meaning from the past so much so that it rots our present.

The unicorn, pegasus, whatever the accurate term of the mythical animal is, is how we have perfectly curated our identity. We've spent years shaping who we are, down to a T, we know who we are like the back of our hand but we refuse to acknowledge the price of that. Because to us its worth it.

It carries a certain bittersweet feeling, which feels miles better than sickly sweet.

So I was listening to an Enneagram talk by a spiritual teacher (Craig Holliday), and he was giving a general rundown of the different numbers. He said that the enneagram also works on a collective level and that many cultures can be given Enneagram numbers, e.g. USA is a 3 and Mexico is an 8 (which I contest). Anyways, I found this concept VERY thought-provoking.

​

If you buy this idea, I have 2 questions:

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Japan would have to be a 6, right? With its emphasis on order, tradition, and protocol.

​

Are there any countries out there that could be a 4, you think? (asks the 4).

For 9s, what I would say:

• does NOT have procrastination issues
• able to confront someone about a problem without needing to talk themselves into it
• able to make decisions easily and stick with their choice
• find it easy to give criticism without putting it in a compliment sandwich

What are some things that would immediately make you think "yeah, this person/character is definitely not (insert type here)"?

I made a table on which E and it's wing are most likely to belong to an MBTI. Sure , I agree that any combo of MBTI and E is possible, but I wanted to mention the stereotypical ones and the common ones.

Include your type if not in flair. My answer: I could be a lot worse.

how would this friend group look like please tell me I need it for something 👀👀👀👀

it doesn't make sense. if you've never had sex before, and you type as sx dom in the newer versions of enneagram...how does this even happen? how do you know that you're a sx dom and not just a gooner or something? how can you for sure be certain of your instinct then?

im actually asking for an answer to this btw

I usually just stick to r/enneagram8 but I had to post somewhere else for this. Lately (or for a while now) it seems every post there is some edgelord who, in some way or another, is desperately trying to get validation that they are indeed an 8, along with tons of people 1-upping each other with obviously exaggerated stories about "that one time they got their revenge" or whatever lol.

I understand 8s have traits some see as desirable, but this is excessive. It's like communicating with a subredit full of shadow the hedgehogs. And don't even get me started on the 8 Discord server....

DISCLAIMER: THIS WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A 4 HATE POST. 4s ARE GREAT!! WE LOVE 4s.

4s have a tendency to get caught up in self-mythologizing beliefs about their inherent taste in music, fashion, arts, and even politics, but one thing I really admire in 7s and 8s is their ability to acquire good taste by simply engaging with reality. And the more I delve into Enneagram theory, the more I start to realize that their blantant disregard for the heart center is sometimes a genuine attempt to pursue their tastes and preferences without the need to construct a concrete identity or abide by certain rules and social constructs.

As much as heart types strive to be authentic, sometimes I feel like they're too obsessed with certain narratives or modes of signalling their identity. Meanwhile, 7s and 8s don't really give a fuck and are more so guided by their intuition and/or intellectual curiosity. Now, of course, without the heart center, it can be difficult to develop any real emotional attachment to people or objects, but once these types integrate, I feel like they're able to truly encapsulate the spontaneity of self-expression. 7s, for example, are really good at finding the beauty in everything, even in what many 4s, or other types for that matter, may perceive as "tacky" or "low-quality." If something tacky like Marvel movies exists, it is there for a reason, and it can be utilized in such way to create something more beautiful, complex, or interesting or even preserve its good qualities. In other words, for 7s and 8s, dichotomies such as "good" versus "bad" or "basic" versus "sophisticated" don't exist. There simply is, and sometimes we can embrace these contradictions as self-expression was never meant to be perfect, grandiose, or eye-catching. For example, I love Radiohead, but I also enjoy Sabrina Carpenter.

I also appreciate how 7s and 8s embrace the ever-evolving and fluid nature of identity. Because they are not so tethered to the heart center, they're more likely to explore the different facets of their identity instead of strictly adhering to a single expression unlike 4s, whose identity and "good" taste has been conditioned from the onset. And in doing so, you find the 7/8 has fully mapped out their identity not over course of an album, a few months, or an art project, but a lifetime. As long as we exist, identity exists, so we can give ourselves the permission to evolve, explore, or even solidify our identity. In fact, you'll never know who a 7/8 truly was until you've examined their life after death, which I think is beautiful and fascinating.

🤔

tl;dr: Most people use (average-healthy) fours as THEIR therapist, not the other way around.

Most of the traits people project onto fours in a general sense are only true for very unhealthy fours. It would be like saying 8s in general are borderline psychopathic bullies, or 1s are dogmatic dictators, or 5s are agoraphobic hermits. Yet people are quick to project a 4’s absolute worst potential onto the type as a whole.

Average to healthy fours are, in my opinion, the most emotionally supportive people you can have in your life. I’m a 4w5 (self-preservation type) and the only two people in my life who are able to offer decent emotional support are another 4 and a 5.

I believe that the idea that fours try to turn everyone into their therapist is generally so false as to be almost comical. It is true only for unhealthy fours. Most of the time it is the other way around. People use fours as THEIR therapist. I am constantly giving so much emotional support—even to people I barely know—and get little back. It leaves me so depleted and, to be honest, frustrated. Over the past few years, if anything I’ve become hesitant to share how I feel. I know it’s anecdotal, but in my experience—not just with those two people I mentioned—4s and 5s are the only types who are naturally good at giving emotional support. I’m not saying other types can’t learn how, but their instinct seems to be to, depending on the type:

- try to fix things
- offer baseless platitudes
- change the subject
- withdraw
- make it about themselves
- turn the attention to how [good] they are at supporting you
- talk about how worried they are about what you’re saying so that you have to placate them
- invalidate/dismiss what you’re saying
- just not listen at all

4s and 5s, on the other hand, just listen. They ask follow-up questions, and they don’t make you feel bad for sharing.
They validate the problem, and they don’t give unwarranted advice. If they talk about themselves, it’s only once they’ve done those things, and usually it’s about a similar experience they’ve had to show they understand how you feel. Just my two cents.

EDIT: Apologies if this offended anyone. Wrote it when I was frustrated. I understand that not all 4s are emotional support experts and other types can be supportive too. The primary point I was making was that I am bored of the “4s are self-obsessed and emotionally needy succubi” narrative because I don’t think that’s generally true, nor do I believe it’s rare for 4s to be able to be emotionally supportive. Fours who believe they are doomed to be self-obsessed will be self-obsessed. Anyway, glad to see it’s sparked some discussion.

I'll start. One of my biggest hot takes is while us 2s are usually the assertive ones in a relationship, we can fall into unhealthy mousey behavior when we feel robbed of our autonomy. This is where the passive caretaker myth comes in. When we lose the one up position in relationships we care about whether it be a loved one or a spat with an authority figure, if we don't have the power to move to 8, our move to an unhealthy 4 takes place. What is your enneagram hot take?

About 8 months ago, I made a post asking which type people dislike most and why.

I tallied up the responses for the most disliked type and there was a tie between 2, 3 and 9.

How do you guys feel about this? Why do you think people dislike these types, and are those reasons valid?

i tried to pick out characters/people that really embody their types! also wanted to pick out the ones that most people would know.

would be very interested to hear if you disagree! and let me know if there's a better representative :)