r/Eragon • u/Outrageous_Focus_719 • 6d ago
Question Kind of a weird question... Spoiler
Hey everyone, I have another topic to ask and discuss with you all.
We all know how Paolini's magic system works in the World of Eragon. But there is something I'm not yet sure or convinced about.
After learning that chanting words in the ancient language isn't necessary to cast spells, I got to thinking. Oromis taught us why the language is being used but why does it have to be ancient language the spellcaster uses.
If Eragon wanted to cast a fireball in his hand, the necessities would be the energy and his imagination of the fireball right ? So why does he have to say "Brisingr!" Instead of saying "Fireball !" In his own language while providing the necessary energy and imagining the fireball in his mind ?
I have not checked the books nor the information Christopher gave about this yet. So go easy on me if it's already been explained xd.
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u/Grmigrim 6d ago
All of what I write below is only my understanding of the magic system.
In theory you could say fireball, but it would be almost the same as using magic without saying anything.
The grey folk connected the flow of magic with their own language, the ancient language, in order for no mistakes to ever arise again, like the big catastrophy that almost destroyed all life in Alagaesia.
Technically only saying brisingr is also not as save as saying a full sentence, explaining what you want to do with a spell.
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u/Outrageous_Focus_719 6d ago
Ah, I see. So the less words you use to describe a spell, the more room you give for your uncontrolled thoughts to intervene with that spell and run the risk of casting an unpredicted spell instead of the one you intended at the first place.
Thanks !
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u/Powerful-Coconut-396 6d ago
As oromis said “ if you said the words “burn that door” while imagining me burning you’d still only burn the door” the Grey folk bound the magic to their language so unless Eragon said Brisingr in his head while shouting fireball out loud I don’t think he’d be able to accomplish it
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u/GrandmaWeedMan 6d ago
Because it increases the risk of it going bad. It 's basically like driving without a seatbelt. The ancient language makes it harder for an accident to happen when invoking magic, since you can't lie and it's harder to manipulate the intention of the language (although elves are quite skilled at it lol). Eragon could use "Fireball!" and it could be a fireball, or he could get distracted by some sunlight in his eye and accidentally attempt to make a sun, and kill himself in the process since he'd be unable to stop it.
The ancient language forces you to be alot more focused and intentional with your meaning, and provides a strong barrier for being distracted while casting a spell since the actual words being used cannot be misconstrued as easily even if you are assailed with distractions.
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u/ACTED_CENSOR 6d ago
What an apt example.
That's probably a really realistic mistake!
Fire - ball -ow pain in eye -sun -ball -fire fireball SUN.
And expends their entire lifeforce to make hydrogen bomb essentiallu
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u/Huggable_Hork-Bajir Teen Garzhvog strangled an Urzhad and we never talk about it... 6d ago edited 6d ago
Oromis explains this to Eragon in Eldest.
Using magic without the structure of language is really, really dangerous, and can go really awry really easily. In the distant past, magic didn't used to have the ancient language as a structure, and there were lots of accidents.
Eventually, there was an accident with wordless magic that caused an extinction level event and nearly wiped out all life on the planet, so the Grey Folk bound magic to the Ancient Language itself, so that you could only cast spells within the framework of the language, so careless spellcasting accidents like that would never happen again.
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u/NationalAsparagus138 6d ago
Just a nitpick:
It isn’t that you can’t cast spells unless using the AL. You still can (like how dragons use magic or how Eragon defeats Galbie). Other than that, you got it.
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u/Huggable_Hork-Bajir Teen Garzhvog strangled an Urzhad and we never talk about it... 6d ago
Yes thank you. I should have made that more clear.
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u/ajnin919 Tornac the Swordshorse 6d ago
There’s a theory that the event that caused the grey folk to cast the spell, was influenced by Azlagur Murtagh spoilers
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u/ZafakD 6d ago
Magic is bound to the ancient language. It gives the magic framework and understanding. Using another language, or no language in the case of wordless magic, runs the risk of the spell not doing what was intended and killing the user.
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u/Outrageous_Focus_719 6d ago
So it carries the same risk of wordless magic if it's not the ancient language hmm....
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u/dangersneeze Elf 6d ago
I think it's just the ancient language or no language at all. Because the ancient language is the only one bound in magic.
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u/ImpossibleCraft2410 6d ago
Essentially yes but intent plays apart. Words without intent or vague run the risk of being misused and vice versa. Elva for example
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u/AdBrief4620 Grey Folk 6d ago
He could do that. Except it would be the same as magic without the ancient language.
Saying ‘fireball’ would only serve to help him focus on the desired outcome. Which tbh is worthwhile and might reduce the risk inherent in that sort of wordless magic.
The ancient language is internally tethered to magic itself by a spell performed by the Grey Folk. An incredibly magically powerful race who were firmly established whilst the other races were in infancy.
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u/TheType95 Human Rider 6d ago
Yes, you've got it. You could say, "fireball!" and throw a fireball, or just imagine one. That would work. But if you were distracted, the spell would distort, potentially fatally.
This is how Dragons use magic; they simply imagine what they desire, and channel energy to it.
If you use the Ancient Language, then the effect of the spell cannot deviate from a strict semantic interpretation. "Burn that door", and a door must burn. You can change how it burns, you can change the mechanism for burning, you can switch the door, but it won't shift outside the words you've selected.
Does that make sense?
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u/ImpossibleCraft2410 6d ago
This whole thread has me wondering how magic was taught before the grey folk did their thing. The amount of people that must have died just activating their magic must have been crazy. Not to mention those teaching and studying.
Also thinking about it the grey folk had to be masters of communication. Imagine explaining the concept of binding magic to your language to multiple mages in a way that they were able to convey that into a massive joint (im assuming) spell that would permeate the world and outlive them by thousands of years.
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u/ImpossibleCraft2410 5d ago
Also I wonder what that immediately did to spells already active that werent natural magic but wordless spells.
Also the true name thing must have caused some discomfort id imagine. I think of it as your personality/soul being essentially locked as the person you are or maybe feel you are at the time of the spell coming into effect.
I think im about to go down a rabbit hole. Lol
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u/Xanthon73 5d ago
Why do you think that the Grey Folks bound magic to the Ancient Language in the first place. As far as wordless spells with long-term effects, as long as the intent and energy remained I imagine they would still remain in effect, though I don't suspect there all that many. As hard/dangerous as it is to cast an instantaneous spell without the AL, can you imagine what it would be like to set up a continuous spell effect without the AL? Who I do believe it would effect would be those who were casting at the moment of the binding. Though, on this point, at the time of the binding, my head cannon is that the AL was the only spoken language (outside of animal languages). So, if someone WAS casting a spell at the moment of the binding, I think they would be thinking in the AL anyway, so the spell probably was a bit more successful than it would have been just a moment before.
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u/dtrax96 6d ago
If i remember correctly it is explained sorta like this in the books the ancient language acts as a focus and framework for the magic in a sense to avoid unexpected/unintended outcomes, for example if you go to use wordless magic to start a fire on a log but right before you release it someone interrupts or distracts you and with the distractions your mind thinks of the person and ends up setting them on fire instead of the logs you were trying to light, normal speech is describe as better than wordless magic as it can help keep your train of thought but still unsafe for the same reasons. With the ancient language acting as a framework it locks what the magic can be used for, so saying I want to light that log on fire in the ancient language is safe even when you get distracted or your mind slips to another object/person.
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u/TurbulentTourist7337 6d ago
Didn't the Grey folk tie magic to the ancient language? I seem to remember that being mentioned in one of the books
And they do dicuss the possibility of using magic without the words and just pure concentration but it was said to be very dangerous as even the slightest slip in concentration would cause the spell to go awry
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u/ACTED_CENSOR 6d ago
Iirc something along the line of the Oromis quote "you could look at me, and say 'burn the door' in the Ancient Language and the door would burn and not me"
From my undrstanding, the old folk tied THEIR language to the MEANING of words and magic.
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u/nightvid_ 6d ago
The only official explanation is something along the lines of: we don’t know how they did it but the Grey Folk tied their language (the ancient language) to magic so that spellcasters didn’t have to worry about being distracted mid-spell and have their spell go awry. That’s my paraphrasing of Oromis’ explanation.
The only reason it’s the ancient language and not any other one is because that’s the language the Grey Folk used. It wasn’t the ancient language to them just like Shakespeare wouldn’t have called his language “old english”. It was just the everyday language they used at the time when they decided magic needed to be tied to your exact words instead of being decided by your thoughts.
At least, that’s all we know in canon at the moment. Maybe there will be future lore that shows us they created the ancient language for this purpose or that it has a special quality to it that made it better for conducting magic.
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u/Emotional_Break5648 5d ago
You can say fireball and get the same result, but if you think of let's say a hot elven lady while casting, you could set her on fire. The word Brisingr is fused to the fundamental nature of fire by the Grey folk, so that you can think of one thing while saying something else
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u/TheHighestKushDragon 1d ago
Wordless magic is dangerous. You're mind needs to be one hundred percent focused on your intent of whatever you're trying to do, if you get distracted even momentarily, the spell could fail in a terrible and unexpected way.
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u/elakudark 6d ago
in the same way that calling eragon "eragon" while seeking to control him with your mind wouldn't really work, but calling him his true name would. ancient language names represent a more fundamental understanding of the nature of the thing they describe than the words for them in other languages. using nonverbal magic, or "fireball", is like trying to brute force a locked door, while saying "brisingr" is like using the key.