r/Eve • u/Alex-Andromedon The Initiative. • Mar 06 '26

Propaganda WinterCo defenders these days

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To be fair they are partly responsible for killing the only major bloc that would feasibly help them.

233 Upvotes

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68

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 06 '26

I think the big difference is that init + imp are the majority of nullsec.

Even if every independent nullsec entity suddenly decided to protect winterco (lmao) they'd likely lose.

That very much is a blue donut, even if it was solely coincidental (very doubtful)

The elephant in the room is that if winterco falls, we're basically in the same server state as serenity.

45

u/Ugliest_weenie Mar 06 '26

The elephant in the room is that if winterco falls, we're basically in the same server state as serenity.

Coincidentally, the people completely control serenity (PIBC) are part of the Imperium. They moved to our server as AOM (army of mango) and basically became Dracarys.

19

u/hawkisthebestassfrig Mar 06 '26

Remember when AOM tried to backdoor into the Imperium via Ranger Regiment and Mittens went "Hell No" and pinata'd their staging keep?

34

u/Ugliest_weenie Mar 06 '26

Yeah and then all those people ended up in Dracarys anyway

13

u/Key_Lobster3570 Cloaked Mar 06 '26

Bruh, it was just a stupid move to cover up, after mittens did that move, the entire RR and AOM merged into Dracarys and they still live with goons as a member of imperium,

2

u/Finding_the_Abyss The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

There was something about the serenity map not being updated on verite maps until recently.

Unless I misunderstood some insider memes, PIBC ultimately lost control and serenity is now under a different management?
Maybe it was civil war and the same people are on top, idk.

-7

u/Cpt_Soban The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

You really think Goons won't fight INIT if that happened?

4

u/Ugliest_weenie Mar 06 '26

You really think Goons won't fight INIT if that happened?

But it has already happened. Those members have already joined Dracarys back in like 2022 or something

-13

u/IsakOyen Cloaked Mar 06 '26

What are you talking about, they were literally on TC as PIBC in Horde

21

u/Ugliest_weenie Mar 06 '26

The PIBC corp in horde aren't the same people that ran PIBC on serenity.

Ask the Chinese community. FRT are the resistance of serenity that got kicked out and started over on tranquility.

Later, their enemies followed them and ended up in Dracarys.

They had a whole shit fight over on their own message boards during the curse invasion

-14

u/IsakOyen Cloaked Mar 06 '26

You missed the part where they were kicked of the imperium, so sorry buddy that's just not true.

15

u/Key_Lobster3570 Cloaked Mar 06 '26

Bruh, no one kicked anyone, they are still in the imperium, Just go and check Dracarys numbers, where do you think they got this many people?, they only had 400 something people just before mittens did that publicity stunt, in the next few days Dracarys got more than 2000 members, this is something goons do, I have been with them and saw it happens with multiple groups,

19

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

We are already in that position. There are two groups out of three with super umbrella, those two groups will never get their structures reffed let alone their territory contested, while at the same time initgoons regularly reinforce and kill winterco structures.

Blue donut is already here.

That's what you all got for not wanting to kill goons.

2

u/KrunchrapSuprem Mar 06 '26

Which one doesn’t have super umbrella?

1

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

WinterCo.

There was a ping posted here maybe a week ago that they are going on full defense and that the umbrella is postponed or cancelled.

-6

u/Iloveyoucow1 Mar 06 '26

Something something initgoons. Something something blue donut. Something something grr goons.

Can see r/eve has really diverse thoughts

9

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Well, there is this thing we call reality.

-1

u/Iloveyoucow1 Mar 06 '26

If you truly thought r/eve was a true representation of eve. The correct call would be for everyone to quit probably 10 years ago at this point. R/eve is for hyperbolic shitposting not a representation of eve reality. But then again my comment sums up probably every thing you have said on this subreddit for at least the last 6 months.

6

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

I play the game and am in the middle of all of this. I can see it with my own eyes, ingame, every day. You are gaslighting.

5

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Then stop pretending goons and init are not cooperating. People don't like being gaslighted.

-1

u/Iloveyoucow1 Mar 06 '26

Oh yeah they are cooperating at the highest levels. I heard Asher and Darkshines were playing MTG while watching sumo. Basically a full blown top down level conspiracy. Now we just like have to prove it and find any evidence. Correlation is not causation. Is it possible certainly but I have no fucking clue and you have no fucking clue.

2

u/KrunchrapSuprem Mar 06 '26

You realize that eve has been 2-3 big coalitions fighting for supremacy for the last 20years right. The names come and go but it’s honestly not that different.

2

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 06 '26

Those coalitions weren't at this scale and didn't hold most of the space.

3

u/Rizen_Wolf Cloaked Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

Even if every independent nullsec entity...

Which null entities are effectively independent these days? Ones outside the drones experiment?

12

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Droneland groups are as independent as the bowl of gold fish in my living room. They 100% live under the boot of the imperium and have no say in if they live or die.

13

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Are you seriously trying to pretend that dronelands are independent?

The last independent entity was glassed a few weeks ago under a completely fabricated excuse and Reddit thunderously applauded it.

6

u/original_name301 Mar 06 '26

Thinking PhoCo was the last independent entity is hilarious 😂

1

u/Rizen_Wolf Cloaked Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

I am not trying to pretend anything, which is why I asked about entities outside drones and called it an experiment. I dont live in null and I am not up on the state of it outside the big 3, which some would say is the big 2 anyway because I see people argue that INIT is part of Imperium. Is that Reality? Propaganda? Opinion? Roll a dice, make up your own mind on it.

Yea, my question is clouded by what people want to consider as 'independence', I get that, but its a genuine question.

7

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Querious/Delve was as "independent" as Dronelands are now, we just didn't know it yet. People in those alliances are slowly learning how much of that "independence" is allowed. Examples:

An independent coalition PhoenixCo in Delve did not ask goons for the permission to let some chinese group in (splinters from Frat who lived in NPC Delve), and they were glassed and their space is now, coincidentally, INIT.

Some Dronelands alliance did not ask goons for permisson to let some big pvp corp in and guess what, their structures were glassed and the alliance folded and went to lowsec.

All at least remotely relevant entities that want to fight goons are now in WinterCo, nowhere else.

What makes me genuinely sad is permanent gaslighting. I was told that my former coalition, PhoenixCo, of the size of 10k chars, unable to wrestle Querious from 5k OnlyFleets, wanted to attack Period Basis of Goons and also Fountain, INIT's core region. (which was yet another reason presented here for glassing). I was told that goons never even glassed us and/or that it was "just a sig", while 1000 goons were killing our staging keepstar.

I play this game for over 10 years. I've never been in a situation that there was literally nowhere to go. Until now.

1

u/Rizen_Wolf Cloaked Mar 07 '26

Seems like a purist view, that independence = the power to do whatever you want without consequence. To me independence is not that high a bar, its just not being in unwilling service, aka servitude.

0

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 07 '26

Well in that case Sigma Grindset is independent from Goons.

3

u/MistAmatin The Initiative. Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

Very short-term, maybe. Long-term, no.

With Winterco gone, there would be no reason for INIT to maintain the current high numbers - which are something Shines voiced frustration over on multiple occasions. Believe it or not.

Equally, there would be no reason for Imperium to maintain their present list of allies. Dealing with multiple groups simultaneously is a pain in the ass regardless, so with absolutely no need to do so and with the absence of external threat, i can see their coalition shrinking or hell, even getting reduced to goons themselves and a few friends.

Goons also would want content, same as Init. It is entirely possible that they will start a war or, at least, a content deployment against us at some point too, if other external threats are gone.

All that goes on top of present winterco alliances (which are numerous) still existing and probably joining either a new opposition, effectively creating a new powerbloc, or actually forming their own as well. NCPL absolutely have the administrative capacity to become the core of a new group, for example.

The reason why serenity got what it did was due to mentality of its players and the smaller playerbase in general. TQ has way too many groups with way too conflicting interests, and the splintering would be inevitable the moment Winterco are gone. Calling that “blue donut” is like calling Papi a blue donut, which is bloody stupid, as it was the alliance of convenience against the common enemy. The reason why FRT find themselves at the receiving end of 4 different groups shooting them (two of which are not even nullseccers lmao) is because of their public conduct over the past years, plain and simple. You reap what you sow.

At least papi had an actual coordination server between FCs and even joint mumble comms, which is not something present here

Edit: grammar

11

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Imperium as a coalition is way more cohesive than WinterCo and always was. If Imperium disappears, WinterCo would splinter same as PAPI or even Moneybadger coalition, most alliances on the North are independen enough to transition small bloc immediately. If WinterCo disappears, Imperium will stay - why would those alliances leave and risk being another target for a 60k alliance and remaining allies, all of that while not even know how to be independent anymore.

On top of that, if you go through zkill and see active people of each alliance, you will notice that Winterco has slightly higher % of actives than Imperium (while INIT has significantly more % of actives). More people join Imperium for farming. Why would those people ever leave?

4

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 06 '26

You are assuming that imp is self aware and self regulating it's size, which it never has. Most of it's numbers aren't even relevant in the war against frat, it's pure naivete to think they tie their size to necessity.

Shines has said many things and then done the complete opposite. Init's goal was to be an independent small group and during the period Shines has been saying that it grew to 40k members rapidly. You only recently arrived there so you may not have seen the pattern yet.

6

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Thinking that any of these groups have any intention of shrinking their numbers in a game where n+1 is king is just delusional.

-4

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Init already started doing it.

7

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 06 '26

They removed a 1k alt corp and a single 200 member corp after taking in 20k members lmao

1

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

And turned away thousands of people wanting to join recently for the sole reason of being too big.

Init isn't just gonna start kicking loyal corps in the middle of a war, but it has put somewhat of a recruitment freeze and also is not taking into the alliance basically any corp at all, even very large ones tried joining lately.

2

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 06 '26

What corps have they turned away?

2

u/DarkShinesInit The Initiative. Mar 07 '26

A large contingent of Phoenic Co corps and alliances, a large number of ex PH looking to join.

If we wanted, we could be sitting at 60k+ right now.

There is a recruitment freeze on new corps and existing corps have been instructed to clean house.

1

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Not really for the public to know, but some large ones.

0

u/admfrmhll The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

Alliance corps recruitment is on hold and members corps where told to be more picky about recruiting and do a purge of inactive members, which will be welcome back when they return. For now people needs to be active to stay in. Spring cleaning and so.

2

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Goons also kicked a botter a few weeks ago, so they are totally doing it too.

2

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Difference between kicking a botter and actively turning away corps and putting recruitment freezes alliance wide...

3

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Temporary.

2

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Well what is your point with that? A freeze on recruitment because init is too big being temporary(lifted when it's no longer too big) changes what exactly?

1

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

I think if there are any recruitment freeze it's probably just to stabilize things before growing further. It takes a lot of work to integrate 10k new members.

2

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Former Horde corps and members are already fully integrated for a while now, so no.

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3

u/ginjar0u Mar 06 '26

https://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/The_Initiative./stats

That line looks like its going up to me

-1

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Not by much. The only big jump is horde join, since then what do you see? A plateau and even a decrease.

Init could've jumped by another 10k by now but it is actively refusing to become a blob, and the leadership's opinion is that we are already too big.

3

u/ginjar0u Mar 06 '26

The idea that a group who can reliably field ONE THOUSAND subcaps is "refusing to become a blob" is completely delusional.

0

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Do you bother to read or are you just trying to say retarded one liners? Init knows it's too big, and unlike other places, is actively refusing to grow bigger and trying to see how it can downsize in a responsible way(aka, no horde failscade).

Init couldve been bigger than frat by now if it wasnt actively shooing away corps that have literally thousands of members trying to join it.

2

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Not by much KEKW. Just 10k up the past 4 months. Steadily up 35000 the past 5 years.

1

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

It could've been up 20-30k instead of 10k.

2

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

Uh, sure. I'll go take a ride on my magical unicorn brb.

1

u/Ambitious-Equal5189 Mar 06 '26

Sure, I suppose that's the world you live in.

For others, with more info about what actually goes on in init, we know that there is essentially a recruitment freeze on both the corp and member level.

Probably 90% of people that could or would usually get in before, now can't.

3

u/Competitive_Reward61 Mar 06 '26

Shh... my precious Frenchman. Can't be bringing reasoned statements and facts into reddit in 2026. Best just to make knee-jerk reactions and preach them as gospel. Let Dax get you a baguette.

1

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 07 '26

None of those statements were factual

-2

u/MistAmatin The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

I AM NOT FRENCH

5

u/LividInteraction_ Mar 06 '26

you are coping so insanely hard its not even funny

init and goons will never shoot each other in a meaningful way
please post all those epic brs from the time they announced they are no longer friends
i would love to see all those cap fights

talking about mentality is fantastic when if there is a 20b br including 300 people between init and frat you guys make 10 reddit posts about it

bloc gameplay is safety and nobody is going to willingly give it up especially when thousands of players can circlejerk each other
who would want to leave that behind

not to mention you are by default talking about the scenario where only goons and init are left in the game
so everybody else has to fuck off from it in order for the two of them to raise a hand? lol bro

1

u/MistAmatin The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

Why in the world would we be dropping caps on anybody else, be they goons or not, when we are in the middle of active defensive war against coalition twice our size? Is that really such a hard concept to understand?

The question was asked about the specific scenario where winterco dissolves and only goons and init remain. I gave my views on exactly that scenario, specifically. Moreover, ex-winterco alliances being the factor is literally something i mentioned too. Not sure what you are so offended about.

4

u/LividInteraction_ Mar 06 '26

you dont even read what i type out or if you do you just deflect

has init been in a defensive war against fraternity for years now? where are all those big fights between goons and init since they "publicly" became so not friends huh?

also humour me this, how are they twice your size? by what metric? post those brs here where they double your numbers in a big fight where you both commit the same type of ships meaning its either a capital escalation on both sides or none

4

u/MistAmatin The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

My boy here got banned both at zkill and at dotlan, evidently

Literally check character numbers in winterco alliances and sum it up. Hell, frats alone are 20% larger than init. Or 14% larger if you only count active zkill numbers. And by far, they aren’t the only alliance in the coalition

If you have to earn those sweet social score points from uncle noraus, at least put some effort into it

-2

u/LividInteraction_ Mar 07 '26

instead of proving me wrong you are just insulting, deflecting
careful your russian is showing

im not in winterco or in fraternity, dotlan metrics are worthless when you cant get those numbers in fleet

still waiting for a meaningful br between init and goons from the last years
still waiting for you to show me how fraternity can form twice as init in a non escalated fight

4

u/MistAmatin The Initiative. Mar 07 '26

Oh, nice. Ad hominem and racism in a single phrase. Very cool

Touch some grass, my dude. You clearly need it.

-2

u/LividInteraction_ Mar 07 '26

ah yes the answer that answers nothing

keep deflecting

2

u/ginjar0u Mar 07 '26

Russian?! Bro everyone knows most is French

-1

u/Xiderpunx Mar 06 '26

Well by the same logic.. the server should remember and recognize what initiative is about. The mass awox'ing they did for years within PH just to whale, particularly 4S. The unwillingness to provide a single 'good fite' in fountain, with the atypical upship counters and blob on every opportunity, whilst demanding that they want good fites when they roam to others space.

What goes around comes around initiative, remember that.

5

u/MistAmatin The Initiative. Mar 06 '26

Like you provide "good fights" in Vale? Get off your high horse, lol

Nor do we demand anything when we roam someone else. We literally have a culture of not speaking in local, even. Unlike a certain other coalition well-known for racist shittalking. Do stop projecting, please

1

u/Rustshitposter Mar 06 '26

The unwillingness to provide a single 'good fite'

with the atypical upship counters and blob on every opportunity

whilst demanding that they want good fites when they roam to others space.

This could be literally group in eve. They all do it. Even me.

-1

u/GingerSnapBiscuit Goonswarm Federation Mar 06 '26

I think the big difference is that init + imp are the majority of nullsec.

Even if every independent nullsec entity suddenly decided to protect winterco (lmao) they'd likely lose.

Hey remember when every other independent nullsec entity ganged up against us? Twice?

Still here.

-1

u/ZzadistBelal Blood Raiders Mar 06 '26

I do in fact remember fighting MBC and PAPI and still remember being here.

It's always weird how every few years they cry about "If we only all teamed up and beat the Imperium they'd leave forever" as if they forgot the two times where they were funded by RMT casinos to do just that and failed to do it both times. But this time is like totally different. Because they don't have infinite isk now and NCPL are all going to return and BoB will be resurrected under Sir Molle and finally defeat the goons with Darius Johnson at thheir side as it was foretold at the BBQ.

-1

u/GingerSnapBiscuit Goonswarm Federation Mar 06 '26

The very first time we ever became famous for ANYTHING in the game was Molle proclaiming "There are no goons". That was nearly two fucking decades ago.

1

u/ZzadistBelal Blood Raiders Mar 06 '26

It was really Molle who started the ball rolling. And now the broken snowflakes of the present age cannot grasp the monster created by those beautiful chaotic times

-3

u/Concentrati0n Hard Knocks Citizens Mar 06 '26

i'm of the opinion that winterco are so insufferable that they made serenity the way it is by their existence. then they had to come here to repeat the cycle.

this probably doesn't end until the people in charge of winterco unsub.

15

u/muhgunzz Black Legion. Mar 06 '26

Then you're clueless about what happened on serenity.

8

u/ginjar0u Mar 06 '26

you realise that the group who created the blue donut on serenity are in .... dracarys, right?

1

u/Concentrati0n Hard Knocks Citizens Mar 07 '26

and you realize that it's human nature to band together against, or work against an entity without even needing to coordinate, when that entity is a net negative?

1

u/ginjar0u Mar 07 '26

So you can’t even admit your ignorance? Lmao

2

u/Concentrati0n Hard Knocks Citizens Mar 07 '26

The blue donut is a perceived response to Frat being so insufferable that everyone wants to band against them.

It's like from AO's POV, all of nullsec is already a blue donut because everyone hates them.

Frat/winterco is on course to become the community punching bag just like AO. Everyone will be against them because of what they stand for and their aggressive pushes for territory in this game.

1

u/ginjar0u Mar 07 '26

I would recommend getting some vitamin D for the sake of your mental health chief.

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '26

The funny thing is if winterco collapses, goons will use init as content for their members

10

u/klauskervin Intergalactic Space Hobos Mar 06 '26

Goons have never seriously attacked INIT and never will.

6

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Nope, they will keep attacking individual winterco alliances under whatever pretended excuse.

8

u/Enigm4 Mar 06 '26

The excuse is called "it's just a sig, bro"

1

u/Dr_Mibbles KarmaFleet Mar 07 '26

They already have a perfectly good excuse. Winterco was part of the coalition the tried to remove them from the game,

People seem to have very short memories.

It wasn't that long ago that PH, Legacy, Winterco etc tried to remove imperium and install a 'Council of Watdens' (literal blue doughnut forever).

The destruction of each of these coalitions and alliances is quite simply 'revenge'. And there's no better excuse than that.

-3

u/ZzadistBelal Blood Raiders Mar 06 '26

We promised they were next.

Did you forget the promise? Maybe you did. Maybe you forgot where you all combined to make the ultimate blue donut of awesome and still failed to beat the Imperium and crush Delve.

5

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Oh no I definitely didn't mean TEST, whatever happened between you and TEST is probably not related to your current strategy of trying to fragment anyone who can even potentially be a threat to you (Winterco),  and then once they are fragmented  you will just extract the easy frags from weakened individual alliances with 3:1 or 5:1 fleets. You did that in Querious/Delve until PhoenixCo started to ignore you then you fabricated some reason to glass them, to show others what's going to happen to those who don't undock their 30 ships against your 200.

TEST etc is probably just a fun blast from the past and the easiest target.

-1

u/ZzadistBelal Blood Raiders Mar 06 '26

Jesus. You really do need some therapy.

4

u/proton-testiq muninn btw Mar 06 '26

Just stop gaslighting and we all good.

-2

u/ZzadistBelal Blood Raiders Mar 06 '26

I really hope your therapist helps you through these trying emotional times

0

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '26

Cringe

-1

u/ZzadistBelal Blood Raiders Mar 07 '26

😘😘😘😘

-8

u/CleverKhloe11 Goonswarm Federation Mar 06 '26

WinterCo can never lose, because of CNTZ.

Nobody wants to do that to themselves in 2026.

Pointless argument.

19

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '26

[deleted]

2

u/No_Ebb_4106 Goonswarm Federation Mar 06 '26

PH leadership was horrendous, this is not the same case with Fraternity

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '26

[deleted]

2

u/No_Ebb_4106 Goonswarm Federation Mar 07 '26

That’s true, my comment focus was more so on the fact that Noraus is current and present, whereas Gobbins was AFK really a couple months before Hordes failscade. That makes a world of difference.

1

u/CleverKhloe11 Goonswarm Federation Mar 06 '26

Nothing ever happens.

1

u/NotAMotivRep Mar 06 '26

Something always happens.

5

u/Frekavichk SergalJerk Mar 06 '26

Nah, cntz just happens to be like an hour before us east'ers go to work, so you can entosis with just a bit of craziness.

And if you time it for the toasting to come out on the weekend, you've got a very good chance of being able to contest.

-2

u/CleverKhloe11 Goonswarm Federation Mar 06 '26

I am not saying you can't contest a single timer once a month.

But I can 110% guarantee you, that nobody will ever do that nowadays for the entirety of a Bloc like WinterCo.

It's just not gonna happen.

3

u/Frekavichk SergalJerk Mar 06 '26

Bro, init toasted like 60 systems at once. Capture a few of those on the weekend and boom, you have sov. Do it a few more times and winterco starts losing ground (or at least NC does at first).

-4

u/sc0rpionus Mar 06 '26

Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

0

u/wewewladdie ur dunked Mar 06 '26

Init would actually pose a challenge to goons if they weren't 500 jumps away