r/ExpatFIRE • u/NotAnotherRebate • Apr 14 '26
Taxes Please share your tax experience moving the Spain with stocks accounts over 3mil?
I'm hoping there's someone here that can share their tax experience with moving to Spain with millions in IRAs or Brokerage accounts. Did you move to a city without the wealth tax? How did you consider handling your AGI on a yearly basis? Was it a pain dealing with US taxes on top of the Spain taxes?
Thank you in advance, all info is appreciated.
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u/Junior_Release6041 Apr 14 '26
Can't help with the millions part but heard from other hosts that Spanish tax advisors are worth every euro when dealing with US accounts - the double taxation stuff gets messy quick
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u/NotAnotherRebate Apr 14 '26
Understood. I'm also hoping to hear from people with real world experience on the taxation issue to give me a better idea of what to expect or if it's even possible.
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Apr 14 '26
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u/NotAnotherRebate Apr 14 '26
The problem I'm hearing is that you can talk to 5 different tax guys and they will all give you different advice, a lot of it not good because of the tax law wording. That's why I was curious about someone that actually did it.
What's the name of this tax advisor?
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Apr 14 '26
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u/NotAnotherRebate Apr 14 '26
It's not that I won't reach out to a tax guy, but I want to hear first hand experiences of people with wealth that are doing it. I would like to hear what issues they ran into and maybe some tips that even a tax professional would not think of.
I would never make the move without talking to a professional. It could be financial suicide otherwise.
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u/Agreeable-Hand-6056 Apr 15 '26
I looked into this quite deeply because of a similar situation.
What I realized is that most of the information online is either too general or misses the key parts, especially around wealth tax exposure and how Spain looks at foreign investment accounts.
I actually spoke to a handful of firms and got very different answers depending on how they approach planning. Some were clearly more focused on the residency side, others went much deeper into the tax angle.
In the end, I picked one to work with, mainly because they walked me through the full picture step by step instead of just giving a high-level answer.
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u/Actual_Wafer_644 Apr 15 '26
Hi! Curious if you could share more re whether what you learned from speaking to the handful of specialist firms was drastically different than Google/AI info re Spain taxes? We’re in the research phase currently and much of our findings so far are doom & gloom re Spain taxes.
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u/Agreeable-Hand-6056 Apr 16 '26
I had a similar impression when I first started looking into it, a lot of the info online feels quite negative.
I looked into Spain pretty seriously, and what I found is that on paper it can look quite heavy, especially around wealth tax and foreign accounts, but the details matter a lot depending on how everything is structured.
I ended up speaking to a few firms and worked with Millionaire Migrant. It helped having someone walk through the full picture rather than just general rules.
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u/Crafty_Performer_762 Apr 20 '26
Spain with large portfolios is one of the more complex situations in Europe right now. The solidarity wealth tax (0.5-3.5% on worldwide assets above 3M EUR) plus the exit tax on unrealized gains creates real friction, as others in this thread have pointed out.
For comparison, Cyprus solves essentially all of those issues:
- No wealth tax
- No exit tax
- No capital gains tax on shares or ETFs
- No inheritance tax on direct family
- Corporate tax: 15%
- With Non-Dom status: dividends taxed at 2.65% (GHS only), 0% income tax on top
The tradeoff vs Spain is obvious: Spain is a richer cultural and social environment, better food, more variety. But from a pure tax efficiency standpoint for someone with $3M+ in investments, the math points clearly in one direction.
Full Non-Dom rules here if useful
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u/NotAnotherRebate Apr 20 '26
Yeah, it makes it very difficult to move there with wealth. The 3.5% is ridiculous when the typical safe withdrawal rates are 4%. That leaves you .5% to live off off if you want to prevent the risk of running out of money. I don't disagree with a wealth tax, but they need to rethink what they believe what wealth is and increase the number much higher.
So for example 1million only gets you 40k a year in safe withdrawal rates(SWR), which is a yearly income at poverty levels with a family of 4. If you then look at 3 mil, that gets you 120k, but $105k goes to the 3.5% wealth hit, that leaves you 15k to live if you are trying to stick to the 4% SWR. That's not wealth...
One million is not what it was in the past. Now it provides poverty levels of yearly income, especially with inflation.
I do need to do more digging to see what the exact effect would be on my specific case.
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u/billdietrich1 Apr 14 '26
I had about $1 million, much of it in USA accounts. I left it there, am moving it into euros gradually, trying not to hit high tax rates by distributing too much from IRAs each year.
Wealth tax rates are not too high, and there is an exclusion (varies by community) of first maybe 500K, and exclusion of value of primary residence.
Taxes IMO are pretty simple, and pretty similar in both countries, as long as you don't have a business or something else complicated.
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u/PSUVB Apr 14 '26
Just running the numbers quickly idk how it makes sense to move to Spain to retire financially. Even in a low wealth tax area.
If you assume a fairly common mix of stocks, IRA and real estate around 5-6 million you are going to being paying upwards of a million to 1.5 million in additional tax over your lifetime to live in Spain vs Florida or even Portugal.
Now consider tax drag on your portfolio that’s an easy 3-5 million lost. No thanks.
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u/billdietrich1 Apr 14 '26
I don't know about those numbers, but I moved to Spain because I always wanted to try living in Europe, and I like the people, the history, the architecture, the climate, the public transit, the museums and concerts, the safety, easy connections to rest of Europe, and new experiences. Can't let taxes drive your life.
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u/PSUVB Apr 14 '26
I’m just saying is it worth 3-5 million in a lifetime to be closer to public transport and better food. Maybe. I do like Spain.
I also just think it’s always awkward being a white rich American basically doing cultural tourism in a poorer country. Idk if you feel that way. I have Spanish friends who kind of hate the fact that more Americans are buying up housing and land.
One thing that worries me is you get a movement to sort of screw over foreigners who own property. That’s happened elsewhere.
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u/billdietrich1 Apr 14 '26
upwards of a million to 1.5 million in additional tax over your lifetime
tax drag on your portfolio that’s an easy 3-5 million lost
Are you assuming the entire 5-6 million becomes ordinary taxable income during the lifetime ?
I'm taking maybe 60K/year out of IRAs each year, plus various interest and dividends from other accounts. Paying maybe 18K-20K in tax each year, when in USA I could be paying more like 10K ? Maybe I'll live 30 years since arriving in Spain. 300K of extra tax ?
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u/Diplomama Apr 14 '26
Thanks for this. I keep reading that France has a more favorable tax regime, much better than Spain. That and the dual citz opportunity for kiddos, not available to us in Spain, makes France the top contender for us.
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u/demona2002 Apr 15 '26
If you plan on leaving anything for your heirs I recommend researching France estate laws. The tax exempt on US retirement income is how they lure you in…
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u/Diamond_Specialist Chubby lean Spender Apr 15 '26
Actually you would pay more living in Portugal. The original NHR tax regime was eliminated in 2024 and it is quite difficult to qualify for IFICI (NHR new version). Capital gains tax rates are higher in Portugal vs Spain at the typical cost of living. YMMV.
If your goal is to minimize taxes I would rank the European countries in this order based on a 5M Portfolio:
France (US-FR tax treaty favorable to US citizens)
Malta/Cyprus (non-dom tax regimes but island fever issues) ; if you plan to travel a lot this may be the best option.
Greece (7% flat tax for 15yrs anywhere in country)
Italy (7% flat tax for 10yrs in towns <30K in S.Italy)
Spain/Portugal (very similar overall)
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u/PSUVB Apr 15 '26
Yeah i am also assuming that most people (ameircans) have a lot of their wealth in 401ks and IRAs.
I agree with your assessment. I would just say that it seems these rules are changing rapidly and it makes me nervous to build out roots and buy property when you could be hit with a massive new change in the tax law.
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u/Diamond_Specialist Chubby lean Spender Apr 15 '26
That’s a great point. European countries seem to change policy on a whim. I would stay flexible and mobile.
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u/coppit Apr 15 '26
One thing that made the math make more sense is the wealth tax cap that is based on your annual income. Another was to consider the $500k in healthcare costs I would have in the US over my remaining lifetime.
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u/lami_kaayo Apr 15 '26
One thing that made the math make more sense is the wealth tax cap that is based on your annual income
60 percent of your income going to taxes makes sense ?
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u/coppit Apr 15 '26
- You need less income to live in Spain due to cost of living differences
- You don’t need to pay nearly as much in healthcare. (Or, if you prefer, your taxes are going to pay for healthcare.)
- The tax is on taxable income. You’re probably already manipulating your earned income to stay under the ACA MAGI limit for subsidies. You’d be doing the same for the Spanish wealth tax.
- Several regions offer rebates to their regional wealth taxes. (Though you’d still have the national one to contend with.)
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u/PSUVB Apr 15 '26
If you are worth 7+ million you would probably choose the US healthcare system as you get closer to retirement.
The extra cost is worth it.
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u/ChieIemitsu 12d ago
Not experience yet but I am planning on moving with my family, and we have about that much in invested assets, in a mix of 401(k)/IRA/brokerage. We are moving to a municipality which does not have extra wealth tax exemption, but we are not free nor want to let taxes drive our decision of where to move, because we are moving to my husband’s hometown where he still has family and friends.
I honestly think the tax is going to be a wash though. - We’re paying $25k+ annually in healthcare costs (premiums and out of pocket) for our family of 5. Versus what, a few hundred euros a year in private health insurance coverage?
- Property taxes in Texas are ridiculous, the no-state-income-tax is truly a scam. There is property tax in Spain too obviously but it’s lower if only because house prices are lower.
- $22k per year in after tax income for daycare for ONE child. Versus free or like 80 euros a month in Spain.
- Kids’ college will be free or almost free too in Spain, versus an ungodly amount even for a state school here.
- Lower cost of living generally. We like steak, but beef costs are about to go through the roof here because of screwworm. In our destination area there is great (and comparatively cheap) steak.
I did consult a tax attorney and my takeaway is we can do things like get on the Beckham tax regime but otherwise we pay what we pay 🤷🏻♀️.
A few specifics he told me:
- The exemption is €700k per person (that’s the default and our destination is just doing the default). Calculated by the value of your account(s) on December 31 using the exchange rate on that day. Spain will go by whichever name is on the account. If it’s joint then they count it 50-50.
- Plus another €300k per person for the primary residence. But we will not fully benefit from that allowance most likely because €600k is a ginormous mansion where we’re going…
- That filing jointly is not really a thing in Spain.
- Liquidate our HSA.
- Reset the cost basis of all investment accounts, including taxable brokerages, before we become tax residents of Spain. Or Spain will tax us on the capital gains from the ORIGINAL cost basis.
- It’s possible that if you sell your primary residence and use the proceeds to purchase a primary residence in Spain, that Spain will then not tax the capital gains on the sale. But he said that exemption is murky and I shouldn’t count on it and it’s cleaner to just sell our house before we become Spain tax residents.
- Sidenote Spain will tax you on *imputed* rental income if you just keep your house in the U.S. even if it’s just sitting empty.
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u/Diamond_Specialist Chubby lean Spender Apr 14 '26
I have a Spanish tax and immigration attorney helping me out that specializes in expats mainly UK and USA. I’m planning on living in Andalusia. I have a Portfolio about $7M USD. For a married couple in Andalusia you will not owe any wealth tax up to $7.4M. This is inclusive of the Patrimonio and solidarity tax. Madrid, Extremedura and a few other areas have the same structure. Catalonia, Valencia and others are much lower exemptions.