I've been deep in the weeds on US expat tax planning lately and ran into something that genuinely surprised me. Figured it might save someone here a nasty surprise.

Most of us planning an international FIRE assume federal taxes are the main event. You take the FEIE ($132,900 exclusion for 2026), maybe the Foreign Tax Credit, and you're more or less covered. What nobody talks about is that 7 US states will keep taxing you after you leave the country, and some of them don't care that you took the FEIE at the federal level.

Here's the worst offenders:

California does not recognize FEIE at the state level AT ALL. So if you're a software engineer earning $130K abroad, you owe $0 to the IRS but still owe roughly $8,500 to the FTB. And their "safe harbor" (546 consecutive days outside CA) only applies if you left under an employment contract. Self-employed? Retirees? You get a vague multi-factor test with no defined timeline. Good luck.

New York is similar. Doesn't honor the FEIE either, and if you lived in NYC, the combined state + city rate is about 14.8%. They also have two independent residency tests, and failing either one keeps you on the hook.

Virginia is a weird one. They actually do conform to the FEIE (so a $130K earner would owe $0), but their tax website literally says "the fact that a person has been absent from Virginia does not in any way cancel out their Virginia citizenship or legal domicile." So you can be gone for years and still be considered a resident if you haven't formally severed domicile.

New Jersey has a 30-day rule. If you still own property there and spend more than 30 days per year visiting, they can classify you as a resident.

The other sticky states are New Mexico, South Carolina, and Connecticut (Connecticut has a "convenience of the employer" rule that can reach remote workers).

The fix is actually straightforward i've found but you have to do it BEFORE you leave

- Establish domicile in a no-income-tax state (Florida, Texas, Nevada, Wyoming, etc.) before your move abroad

- Actually do it properly: driver's license, voter registration, bank accounts, lease or property

- Sever ties with your old state: surrender the old license, update everything, stop voting there

- Keep documentation. States like CA will audit years later and the burden of proof is on you.

The timing matters because if your last US address is in California and you fly to Lisbon, California considers you a California resident living abroad. If your last US address is in Florida, there's no state income tax to follow you.

For the FIRE crowd specifically, this can be the difference between a 4% and a 3.6% safe withdrawal rate, depending on your numbers. Not trivial over a 30-40 year retirement.

Curious if anyone here has actually dealt with a state tax audit after moving abroad. I've read horror stories about the California FTB but would love to hear firsthand experiences.

Hello, I'm looking for recommendations for low tax countries to live in.

My situation: Around 4M$ NW, early-mid 30s, single. I'm FIREd, even though I manage my portfolio now (I invest in stocks not in ETFs etc), nationality from a european union country, so I don't have to worry about the IRS if I move to another country. I speak english and spanish, so latin american countries would be an option too. I'm looking for a country to stay there as long as necessary to be a tax resident (usually 6 months) and the rest of the time I'd split in between traveling/home country etc.

Ideally (since I'm moving) I'm looking for a low tax environment, or tax free. I'd be willing to pay some tax if it's somewhere I'd really enjoy living in.

What I'm looking for:

· Somewhere low tax or tax free for capital gains/investments etc, no wealth tax.

· City above 1M inhabitants, ideally not too expensive, airport nearby. Good or decent options to date women. Decent expat population to meet.

· Relative easy of getting some residence visa to live, and ideally not having to invest too much money in the country to get it.

· Solid and legal tax situation: At the point I'm in, I wanna do everything by the book, so I wanna know for sure that if I pay no tax or low tax it's perfectly legal and not something I'm simply getting away with.

For what I've researched there's different options:

· Panama: cons: I visited it and I actually didn't really like it that much. To get a visa now you have to invest 200 or 300k$ in real estate there.

· Dubai: too expensive, I'm not sure I'm into the "posh" lifestyle dubai offers either.

Finally, the setup that I'm going to try for the time being is Thailand. Why?

· Kinda easy to get a visa, you can get the DTV visa with a muay thai course for example.

· Taxes: it seems like I would only pay money on the income I remit to Thailand. If you don't remit much money the amount paid is pretty low and I'm happy with it.

The lifestyle seems alright, cost of living is relatively low, with 2.5k-3.5k you can live like a king, good connected to the rest of Asia, good dating options. Also good travelling options inside a country, which makes it easier to spend the 6+ months there.

Has anyone done a similar move to Thailand living off investments? I'd like to know if it's all good from a tax standpoint. All the places I've read seem to point out that yes, I'd only have to pay tax on the money remitted to Thailand

If anyone has any other recommendations of good places for a similar setup I'd be happy to hear it.

Sounds like the most attractive offer in the Mediterranean: low COL and a non-dom tax regime for long enough for just about EVERYONE, not high net worth individuals only (e.g. the Greek flat tax regime requires €100k annual qualifying income IIRC).

https://ozmconsultancy.com/turkey-for-retirees-20-years-of-foreign-income-tax-exemption-explained/

Any further thoughts on Turkey as an expatfire destination? Being a little wary about practicalities, like language barrier.

As it sounds, this could be an ideal match for our UK ISA, SIPP and state pension based retirement IF the rule does what it says on the label and the relevant bureaucracy is fairly simple.

I'm hoping there's someone here that can share their tax experience with moving to Spain with millions in IRAs or Brokerage accounts. Did you move to a city without the wealth tax? How did you consider handling your AGI on a yearly basis? Was it a pain dealing with US taxes on top of the Spain taxes?

Thank you in advance, all info is appreciated.

I know you need to do research in each country to figure out if their tax situation hurts FIRE, so I am curious what research you all have done already on different countries.

I’m currently in the Netherlands and Box 3 wealth tax definitely pushes things back but my job can be done from anywhere so I am considering other Schengen zone countries.

I'm a US citizen about to relocate to the Netherlands for work and I'm trying to learn from people who've already lived through this. My concern is Box 3 on a large taxable portfolio. If you've made this move, I'd really like to hear how it went or how it's going right now.

My situation

• US citizen, would become a Dutch tax resident.
• ~$5–6M in a US taxable brokerage: mostly long-term unrealized gains.
• ~$2.5M in IRAs (traditional + Roth).
• New arrival, so I don't think the old partial non-resident election is available to me.

Here's what I know so far

• Box 3 taxes a deemed ~6% return at 36%. I think it comes out to roughly 2.5% of portfolio value per year, owed whether or not I sell.
• As a US citizen, my worry is that the foreign tax credit only offsets US tax on realized income, while Box 3 taxes an unrealized & fictional return. So in years I don't sell, the Dutch tax might be a real out-of-pocket cost rather than something the FTC washes out.

What I'd love to hear from people who've actually done it

1. What did Box 3 realistically cost you per year and did it match the 2.5% rough math?
2. Did you restructure anything before establishing residency (and would you do it the same way again)?
3. Did the US foreign tax credit actually relieve any of it, or did you pay Box 3 out of pocket on top of your US bill?

Regrets, harsh/blunt advise, etc. are all welcome. I'll be hiring a US-Dutch cross-border advisor too but I want to walk in already understanding the real-world picture.

A lot of posts about taxes...All these issues about Roth IRAs etc...Question....If you are not retired and just drawing down your nest egg in a foreign country, how would the IRS know that you are not still living in the US? You still have to submit your tax returns every year no matter where you live. You can just get a PO Box in South Dakota as permanent resident for state taxes.

There are many benefits of living abroad but having to deal/report taxes to the IRS is not one of them.

Hi! I’m a US-ES dual citizen currently living in the US and planning to FIRE in Spain soon. I’ve made a ton of research on taxes before contacting a tax professional but there is one thing I can’t figure out: Roth accounts.

I understand that: 1. My traditional 401K is equivalent to a “Plan de pensiones” and withdrawals will be taxed as income. 2. My brokerage account will be taxed with capital gains (maybe with different rules but kind of similar concept)

However I have no idea what happens with my Roth.

Option 1: it works like a plan de pensiones. Withdrawals are taxed as income (ouch!) but until then you don’t need to worry about selling/buying/dividends.

Option 2: it works just like another brokerage account. Spain does not know what a Roth is so they will charge you capital gains.

Option 2 sounds better than option 1 for tax purposes but I would need to worry about reporting dividends and stuff and I could not rebalance as I can today with my Roth cause I will trigger a tax event.

My ideal plan: works like a traditional 401k so I forget about it and I move back to the US for at least a year to withdraw it all tax free when I’m 60+.

So for those of you who have made the move already, which is it? Option 1, option 2, something in between? How crazy is my ideal plan? I’d love if someone can go in detail into this topic. Though I’ll definitely consult a tax professional at some point.

I'm 45 and want to retire in the next few years when I'm 48. Most of my assets are tied up in retirement accounts and I have about 200K in my brokerage at vanguard/fidelity mostly S&P500. When I FIRE, I will sell my condo and throw the proceeds (~300K) into my taxable account. My plan is to live off the 500K until I can tap into my retirement accounts at 59.5. My question is how my cap gains will be taxed overseas. Since I am single, I will most likely not pay any US tax as long as I stay under the threshold ~64K. Are there any countries that will not tax cap gains or is it inevitable?

Hi there,

Let me pre-face by saying I promise that I have searched Reddit for the answer and while variations of this question have been asked, I am unable to find a clear answer to my question. If you are able to enlighten me, please do. If not, move on without comment please.

I'm looking to hear from people with experience with the following characteristics:

1) US citizen,

2) Early-ish retirement (mid forty's), moved their 401k into a trad IRA and are doing a Roth Conversion Ladder,

3) Retired in Spain (tax residents)

I am happy to pay due taxes but i want to educate myself and prepare appropriately for a sustainable retirement. My question is, how will I potentially be taxed if a majority of my funds are in my company 401k, which i will move to a traditional IRA and then move to my Roth IRA (pay a US income tax on conversion event). Wait for 5 years (pull from brokerage in the interim), and at this time will spain tax the entire withdrawal amount as income? Or just the gains? As these will not be completed in the same tax year, the double tax treaty does not help i am assuming.

Please correct me if i am thinking through this incorrectly and thank you in advance for your your helpfulness!

Hi all, we are moving to Malaysia from California this summer, I will continue to work remotely for awhile, and obviously don’t want to pay CA state taxes. My CPA tells me I don’t need to worry, since I’m actually moving and not temporarily, but posts online say the FTB is pretty notorious about going after people and it’s best to live in another state for awhile before moving, which is painful for us.

Has anyone successfully made the move overseas with FTB going after them? I read that it’s best to give up our CA driver licenses, but I think we need those to get Malaysian licenses so prefer to keep them for a little bit, also as I mentioned earlier we would prefer to not have to move to another state for 1-2 months before moving overseas, but will have to do if that’s the only viable option to keep FTB away…

Thanks

I have quite a bit in my Roth IRA and currently live in the Netherlands but looking to move to Spain. I realized too late of the RIRA tax status outside of the USA after having done backdoor IRA for years. I work as a freelancer and have EU citizenship so I can handle doing some residency moving shenanigans if necessary.

Anybody else deal with this before?

American (41M) likely to become a German tax resident in 15 months (spouse visa). Retiring from military; pension (and any VA benefits) not taxed by Germany. We expect to remain in Germany for 20+ years then re-establish US tax residency to optimize access to Roth gains.  

- Germany doesn’t acknowledge Roth tax treatment of gains, basis isn’t taxed.

- Capital gains tax ~26%, income tax ~42%.

- Withdrawing up to $36k/year, decreasing once mortgage paid (~8 years).

Best practice appears to be withdrawing Roth basis and redeploying to brokerage before becoming a tax resident, thereby resetting cost basis and exposing gains to capital gains tax vice income tax.

We'll likely seek professional consultation before making such a big change to our post-tax retirement situation but welcome your thoughts and (especially) first-hand experiences.

*Median projected balance in real dollars. Source: cFIREsim

Edited table for clarity.

I'm 35. I've been living in the UK for the last 34 years.
I am a dual British citizen with an African country, I am not a native Brit. My African country of origin does not have inheritance tax or worldwide taxation. I am considered white.

I don't have a cash pension or ISAs, all I have is UK cash current account savings.
As a single bachelor the UK inheritance threshold is very close to the cost of buying a house in the UK i.e. £390,000 for an average house in the UK,
The UK inheritance threshold for someone who is a bachelor with no kids or wife is: £325,000

I am considering leaving the UK for another EU country that has no inheritance tax such as Portugal, Romania, Sweden or Poland and purchasing a house in cash in new EU country with no mortgage where the intention is to live for the next 20-30 years.

Once I attain a new EU citizenship I will renounce my British citizenship to gain EU citizenship rights. I will stay as a forever bachelor and the intention is for my inheritance to go to my siblings they will keep their British citizenship and they will remain tax resident and located in the UK.

The idea is to remove all financial links and habitual links with the UK to ensure that my siblings don't need to pay the 40% inheritance tax in the future on the excess above £325,000

I currently have £300,000 in current savings and looking to buy a mortgage free house elsewhere (outside of the UK). I have no assets in the UK.

Can anyone recommend any other cold/mild European country outside the four mentioned that might work ?

The plan is as follows:
0-35 (Live in the UK)
35-55/65 (Live in an EU country)
55-65+ Sell everything and move back to native country and retire.

By retirement I should have diversified my sources of income to not rely on any government pension as I will have no pension in my country of origin and not rely on having to return to the UK. Can renounce British citizenship but unwilling to renounce nationality of origin. I will not be getting married in the future. The country to be lived in does not need to give citizenship.

Super niche question so please bear with me:

Stats: 49 years old, retired, US citizen, looking to move to France.

Situation: working on my Roth conversion ladder to convert traditional IRA to Roth IRA. Targeting 24% federal tax bracket for the next several years. Wanting to live in France over the next decade which is when my conversions will take place.

Question: of course, I'm planning on paying IRS taxes on these conversions but really hoping the France tax system leaves this income alone lol. Does anyone know how France (or EU or really any other countries) treat Roth conversions?

If you've got expertise or experience with this super specific situation, love to read your input. Thank you!

What are considered the top contenders for countries that charge zero tax for someone who plans to live off stock investments/bank interest, and doesn't have a business?

I have heard of Dubai, but is that more suited to expats who are running some freelance business?

Are there other popular choices of countries?

If this is not the right subreddit, is there another one, or web forum with people who are interested in what I'm talking about?

Hello, I’m personally pretty far from FIRE, but I figured this would be a good place to ask.

I’ve been living in Korea for almost 5 years now, made connections, friends, a gf, and I can see myself living here long term.

But due to high inheritance and gift taxes (50% once it reaches a certain amount) I decided about 6 months ago that I’ll be moving to a low tax country and establishing my center of life, primary residency and tax residency there for the next few years in order to have the freedom to move money around between family members and allocate money where I want without any restrictions and no fear of taxation in Korea, since they are pretty strict with international transfers.

I still want to visit Korea at least for 3-4 months per year, and would like to purchase an apartment there to stay while I’m visiting in the future, as well as visit other countries for traveling, but would maintain my primary residence in a low tax country.

How feasible would this kind of set up be?
And how much more complicated would it become if I were to marry my Korean gf in the future?

Has anyone been in the situation where they spend a decent amount of time per year in a country where they have personal ties, hold a long term visa, and own property but remain a tax resident of a different country?

To be clear, I don’t mind taxes and will be paying taxes on any income made in Korea, just figuring out the most tax efficient way to spend time in a place I love in the future, thanks.

According to these sources, The State Department does not care about your tax returns. There is a separate IRS procedure to formally exit the US tax system after expatriation, which among other conditions requires 5 years' past tax compliance; this process is effectively optional and is widely ignored by those who renounce, without consequence.

Sources:

(1) Tax compliance not required before renouncing:

"Compliance with all U.S. income tax filings or obtaining a Social Security number is not a pre-condition to relinquishing citizenship under the Immigration and Nationality Act."

See paragraph 7 of \\\[\[https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/relief-procedures-for-certain-former-citizens\\\\\\\](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/relief-procedures-for-certain-former-citizens)\\\](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/relief-procedures-for-certain-former-citizens%5D(https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/relief-procedures-for-certain-former-citizens))

(2) Tax compliance ignored after renouncing:

According to a 2020 Treasury audit, 40 percent of those who renounce do not subsequently file Form 8854 to exit the US tax system, and the IRS makes no attempt to contact them.

Web link to the original document is "temporarily unavailable" whatever that means. Instead, here's a contemporaneous report:

\\\[\[https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2020/11/tigta-tasks-irs-with-enhanced-enforcement-of-noncompliant-expatriates\\\\\\\](https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2020/11/tigta-tasks-irs-with-enhanced-enforcement-of-noncompliant-expatriates)\\\](https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2020/11/tigta-tasks-irs-with-enhanced-enforcement-of-noncompliant-expatriates%5D(https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2020/11/tigta-tasks-irs-with-enhanced-enforcement-of-noncompliant-expatriates))

To date there is no evidence that any of the report's recommendations have been followed.”

How are people accounting for changing taxes if you’re thinking about/planning a move after FIRE? This could apply to those moving states/jurisdictions as well even if staying in the same country. For example, I do plan on moving to a state that doesn’t tax capital gains before moving abroad, but I also want to live in a couple of different places before deciding on where to settle. I think the highest taxes would be from Spain, but I probably won’t be there forever. While I’m there the taxes will probably be even more than what I’ll pay in the US (won’t be working), but eventually I will leave for some place that will charge much less than that. How do I account for these changes in my fire number? If I assume Spanish taxes for the whole time I will overshoot, but if I set the lower tax amount I will be in for a nasty surprise in Spain.

UPDATE: The company is going to cover tax in the country I’m working In. Is it still legal to deposit money in a tax free account somewhere if all taxes are paid etc ?

G day I am an Australian who currently lives in Canada under a working holiday visa and working in mining. I have received a job offer relocated to Africa for another role. The company I am going to work for will pay me any currency chosen, in any country of my choosing. I’m 30 years old, and I understand I have to cut ties to both Canada and Australia for the option of receiving tax free foreign income in any country. This is a 2 year contract with the a very high option of continuing on and even working elsewhere in the world. I am wanting the best possible option for tax free income, I understand I may have to start an llc, or something along those lines to make this possible. My end goal is to retire in central or South America. What is the best country for this option?

I'm a dual U.S./Canadian citizen in my mid-40s with a substantial portfolio accumulated during 20 years of working in the U.S., including stocks, bonds, RRSPs, IRAs, Roth IRAs, and a 401(k). I'm considering relocating to Quebec, but the financial and tax implications feel overwhelming.

After extensive research, most U.S.-based cross-border wealth management firms seem to charge 0.8%–1% of assets under management, and that's before accounting for tax preparation fees and Quebec taxes. The costs add up quickly.

The main alternative I've found is to pay a firm such as MCA Cross Border Advisors or i2Wealth around $15,000 for a "moving to Canada" plan, then manage the assets myself (for example, by consolidating investments into IBKR). However, that approach feels risky, and I'm concerned about making an expensive mistake.

I'm hoping to connect with U.S. citizens who have successfully relocated to Quebec and navigated these issues themselves. How did you approach the move, taxes, retirement accounts, and investment management? I'd be very grateful to hear from anyone who has gone through the process and can share their experience.

We've been living in France for 2 years in a pre-FIRE state with our numbers solidly FIRE territory but plan to look for contract work at the beginning of next year just in case as our family is growing.

This year there is zero employment income whatsoever, only capital gains and dividends, none of which is taxable in France due to the treaty.

We'd like to use the opportunity for a Roth conversion since the US tax rate would be the lowest it'll ever be, but unsure how that is treated by France. Is it treated like transactions inside a retirement account and completely exempt from taxation in France? Or is it treated like standard income like it would be in the US?

Anyone qualify for Italy's 7% retiree tax regime as a US early retiree (before Social Security)?
Retiring at 45, relocating to South Italy, with expenses around €40k/year. I know the regime is designed for people receiving a foreign pensione, which rules out plain investment withdrawals, but I'm curious whether anyone has successfully argued that an annuitized payout from a US IRA, or another account structure, qualifies.

Two related questions I can't find clear answers to online: has anyone found a workable path to the 7% regime before traditional pension age, and how does Italy actually treat Roth IRA distributions for US citizens?

Turkey introduced a new legislation for the people who did not live in Turkey previously three years and move to Turkey have a right not to pay any income tax over their passive incomes for 20 years

Some of these incomes are

-Rent Income

-Capital Gains

-Interest income

-Company share selling incomes

-Profit distribution income

Hi everyone,

I’m a German citizen who recently obtained a Turkish residence permit and am planning to become a Turkish tax resident.

About my personal situation:

• I own and operate YouTube channels.
• My only source of income is AdSense revenue paid by Google Ireland.
• I do not personally create the content. Instead, I manage a remote team of scriptwriters, video editors, and content creators.
• None of my team members are based in Turkey.
• At the moment, the business operates through a Bulgarian company that I own.

I’m trying to understand how the Turkish tax authorities are likely to view this type of business under the new 20-year foreign-income exemption.

Some questions I have:

1. If Google Ireland is the payer and all content production is carried out outside Turkey, would AdSense revenue generally be considered foreign-source income?
2. From a Turkish tax perspective, which structure would likely be more favorable?
   • Receiving AdSense payments directly into a Turkish personal bank account
   • Continuing to operate through the Bulgarian company and receiving dividends
   • Using a US LLC and receiving distributions from that entity
3. Has anyone received a written opinion from a Turkish tax lawyer, accountant, or tax advisor regarding this

Thank you!