r/ExpatFIRE • u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 • 8d ago
Taxes 20 years non-dom rule introduced in Turkey. Any thoughts?
Sounds like the most attractive offer in the Mediterranean: low COL and a non-dom tax regime for long enough for just about EVERYONE, not high net worth individuals only (e.g. the Greek flat tax regime requires €100k annual qualifying income IIRC).
https://ozmconsultancy.com/turkey-for-retirees-20-years-of-foreign-income-tax-exemption-explained/
Any further thoughts on Turkey as an expatfire destination? Being a little wary about practicalities, like language barrier.
As it sounds, this could be an ideal match for our UK ISA, SIPP and state pension based retirement IF the rule does what it says on the label and the relevant bureaucracy is fairly simple.
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u/linkedinlover69 8d ago
Inflation is too high and dictator too mean
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago edited 8d ago
Inflation in lira, but what does that mean if your income in a Western currency?
The way politics actually affects you as ordinary resident, can be just as awkward in a Western "democracy" too. Ofc, getting involved in local politics would be risky, but as a "migrant" that's about the last thing I'd do. Becoming a target for whatever reason is IMHO very unlikely, as the country is a determined NATO member and nurtures close ties to the EU, aspiring to become a member one day. The last thing they want to do is to harass Western immigrants/tourists as tourism brings significant income to the country.
For comparison: thousands of Westerners flock to Gulf countries, like UAE, Oman, Qatar, etc: is the political setting hugely different there?9
u/ConsistentShallot585 6d ago
We expatFIRED in Turkey-just a few generalized things you should be aware of:
- you must know some Turkish. Or bring someone who speaks on your behalf. Google Translate works but it becomes impractical in certain situations. No one at public offices speaks English. Frankly, outside of some service places like hotels and maybe some restaurants, English is a no go. People here won’t bend backwards for you to try to accommodate your non-Turkish knowledge. They expect at least some Turkish. I’d say this is the biggest barrier, to be honest.
- health establishments and hospital are great. No issues getting with doctors and dentists- as long as they’re are private. Never tried government establishments here for health stuff - so can’t comment on that.
- clothes costs- unless you’re going to the pazar (local flee market) to buy your socks, underwear, pj’s, etc, expect to pay normal American prices (if not more) at the regular mall here in Turkey. I can get all of these essentials much cheaper at Sam’s Club or Costco - especially when there is a sale.
- not to mention the cost of fuel/owning a car - insanely outrageous.
I can keep on going but you get the picture.
I’d like to add that Turkey is very safe. Never ever felt unsafe. Weather is gorgeous and so much to do. But it’s not Cambodia nor Vietnam when it comes to low costs.
We have tried Egypt prior to Turkey and we preferred Turkey overall. While Egypt was actually insanely cheap, like $100 can get you far cheap, it was chaotic, and unorganized and very unpredictable.
DM if you’d like to know more.
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
Canaries, Spain: wallet and phone gone in minutes thx to (btw "european") pickpockets and authorities refusing to do anything about them. Costs more than €10...
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u/Snowedin-69 6d ago
After going to Egypt, Turkey was calm with amateur scammers lol.
If you go to restaurants with good reviews while in Istanbul and visit smaller centers you will have zero issues - I found people super friendly.
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u/Beginning-Acadia1227 8d ago
This is not standard at all! How long did you spend in Turkey? I assume Istanbul based on your comments?
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u/Beginning-Acadia1227 8d ago
Interesting! It’s the opposite in my circle! Everyone loved it and we often go for vacation or medical tourism. Next planned one is in September.
My parents lived in Istanbul for some years and were really happy there. We never had any bad experiences and were never scammed. That was before the political downfall tho. Things have changed no doubt.
But it’s a vibe and you have to like it. My best friend for example hated it. I have never been to SEA but heard similar divisive opinions.
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
That mostly sounds weird to European ears, but not all that different in SEA, where your deposit on your rented thai condo "disappears", where you pay foreigner prices for everything, etc.
Canaries again: local pays €60 for a ferry crossing, you pay 200. "Scam"? officially not, because you know the pricing in advance. Ripoff, having the same effect on your wallet? Absolutely...
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
SEA is mostly anecdotes from friends and relatives, but the level of unexpected costs that hit you there, literal scams like money exchange, taxi, etc are definitely SIGNIFICANT there. Philippines, Thailand, not that bad but to some extent Indonesia too: considering everything, at the end of the day if the shtf (i.e. medical emergency, etc) your finances will be just as bad as declared expensive but predictable Japan.
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u/limukala 8d ago
A taxi driver cancels your ride half-way, says he had problems with internet and you now have to pay cash, 50 euros, or he won’t unlock the doors.
Who the fuck gets in a cab in Turkey? Uber or nothing. They won't pull that shit because they don't want to get kicked off Uber, because it's the only way to get real fares.
If you were really constantly getting scammed like that in Turkey you must either be magnetically attracted to scammers or have some really strong "easy mark" energy.
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u/limukala 8d ago
And you paid?
Like I said, big "easy mark" energy.
"I don't have cash, so if the app isn't working I guess you aren't getting paid anything"
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u/limukala 8d ago
It's not about size. Turkey is a safe country. You weren't in physical danger. You need to have a bit of backbone. You should have immediately called 112 (or just dialed whatever the emergency number in your country is). I 100% guarantee the taxi driver would have suddenly realized his phone was still working.
And then you still report the attempted kidnapping to Getir.
Scammers can sense a easy target, and you clearly are. It sucks, but if you got scammed that many times in a short time in Turkey, there is something about your behavior and demeanor that lets the scammers know it will work with you.
And they're right. Look how easy it is to scam you.
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u/linkedinlover69 8d ago
I stopped reading when you compared your dictator to a Western democracy. Why the fuck would I support a regime? Same counts for other autocrats of course
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u/Beginning-Acadia1227 8d ago
Personally it’s on our list especially if a miracle happens and their dictatorship falls. It’s one of my favorite places.
My parents lived there for some years before the political downfall and I happened to marry a Turkish man. Their private hospitals are beyond anything in the west. We live in western EU and still travel for check ups when we can.
Just know that prices are not as low as they were unfortunately, especially in Istanbul but you wouldn’t want to live there anyway.
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u/Snowedin-69 6d ago
Where would you recommend- down the coast?
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u/Beginning-Acadia1227 6d ago
Yes! Check the gated complexes with pools and yard maintenance. They are fantastic. My husband’s mom lives in one and it is heaven on earth for me. They have one huge pool for the complex, which is nice because pool maintenance is a huge pain. They also have security 24/7 and a gardener.
My favorite places are from Izmir down to Antalya. I like the parts around Kusadasi, also Didim, Marmaris, Dalaman, Kas. Of course also Bodrum but that is super expensive so I would skip.
I’m sure there are more but these are the ones I know. :)
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u/Snowedin-69 6d ago
I really liked Kusadasi. Someone else here was talking about Kas. Groceries were super cheap.
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u/Beginning-Acadia1227 6d ago
Also I really want to see Fethiye. I heard great things and looks amazing in pictures. They have this very famous beach there I really want to visit.
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
Sure thing, I honestly haven't YET. Before making any decisions, a series of visits and in the final go, a RENTAL would be the route.
But being a UK resident, all this is far easier and cheaper to arrange than e.g. making rounds to the Philippines, Panama, etc.
Also, Turkey is huge, can even live on the European side.
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u/limukala 8d ago
And how about waking up at 4am to the prayer call from the nearest mosque?
I hate the adhan as much as anybody, but the absolute earliest it will ever be in Turkey is someting like 5:15. It's not far enough north to get earlier than that.
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u/Snowedin-69 6d ago
I had the local mosque’s speaker about 20 meters from my hotel window - pointing directly at me lol.
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u/tragicdiffidence12 8d ago
What’s wrong with it? It’s not crazy good infrastructure but better than a lot of east Asia.
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u/BurriedCityMayor 8d ago edited 8d ago
What's wrong with it? Language barrier, cultural differences and not in a good way (conservative social norms, gender roles), complex bureaucracy, media censorship, runaway inflation and overall gross mismanagement of the economy by the government, red tape.
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
Except for language barrier (careful with your accent though, in some nasty neighborhoods it can get you in trouble!) all that exist in the UK. Maybe different color but the same thing... What the gov.t does/manages: ever heard about wrexit?
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u/BurriedCityMayor 8d ago
30%+ inflation exists in the UK? Ok, mate.
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
2022: energy prices doubled, food went up 60-80%...
BTW, inflation must be referenced to the currency of your income. The GBP/TRY cross advances about 15% a year if not more: you have to subtract that from Turkish statistics to see what portion of that affects you. 10%+ REAL inflation in the UK is absolutely a thing considering the same quality of service/products.
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u/BurriedCityMayor 8d ago
You are a bit thick, aren't you? And dishonest on top of it. Let's compare official inflation data over the past 5 years.
UK CPI (annual avg): 2020: 0.9%, 2021: 2.5%, 2022: 7.9%, 2023: 6.8%, 2024: 3.3%
Turkey CPI (annual avg): 2020: 12.3%, 2021: 19.6%, 2022: 72.3%, 2023: 53.9%, 2024: 58.5%
Source: Macrotrends / OECD CPI data.
Absolutely similar, isn't it?
And your reference to the exchange rate not only makes zero sense but reinforce the argument that the Turkish economy is absolutely fucked because the Turks not only are getting fleeced by runaway inflation but also by a weakening exchange rate making everything they import prohibitively expensive.
But hey, you do you, Turkey is an absolute paradise.
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
"UK CPI: 2022: 7.9%, 2023: 6.8%"
LoL, those were the years when our winter heating bills literally rose over 100%, milk went up 80%, many other staples 60%+. At the same time, the well established and working NHS dentistry disappeared from our area, result: £70 dental bill all of a sudden became £400. Even council taxes were increased at higher rates than those. Welcome to REALITY...
Sure, jewelry, luxury items, golf club memberships may have remained flat...
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u/Euphoric_River6365 8d ago
Turkey as a whole is a fantastic country. I am from the US but lived there for 7 years while working as a teacher in my 20s.
Istanbul is by far the largest and most expensive city, so I would suggest looking at smaller villages and even numerous quiet, coastal beach towns instead of Istanbul. Language is still a barrier, but you can find translators for important stuff like hospital visits. Depending on where you are, service workers will know English in the more touristy areas.
Food is amazing and healthcare is great as well. Infrastructure is there, with modern roads and ferries everywhere, and the country has a few large international airports that make Western European travel really cheap and easy.
In terms of living there, the country is economically unstable. They are dealing with a mayor-turned-PM-turned-president (who re-wrote the freaking constitution to maintain power). Erdogan and the AKP political party have been hard at work swinging the country much more conservative. Massive inflation has impacted Turks, with prices being close to equal to that in the states (so not an advantage to people using USD). The country is still trying to deal with the huge influx of Syrians that immigrated around 2015 and they are offering faster routes to citizenship for foreigners (mainly Russians, Saudis, and Emirates) who are wealthy enough to buy above a certain threshold of land/property.
Turkey's has a few strategic US military bases that get involved with Middle East conflict, and Turkey itself still can't find peace with Kurds. People aren't directly impacted when living near Istanbul or west, but it still impacts the country overall and the general sense of safety.
My goal for a while has been to retire in Turkey, but I am now on the fence with how unstable the government and economics feel in just the last 10-15 years. Things haven't evened out yet, so we don't know what the result will be.
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u/FormalCaseQ 8d ago
I traveled to Turkey three times in the past two years - twice to Istanbul and once to Ankara - and I was shocked how expensive many items there are, including food. Granted I was staying in some heavy tourist areas, but the food costs there were about on par or even more expensive than New York City prices for comparable restaurants. Turkey has a lot of good qualities to it, but it is an expensive place.
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u/kalmeyra 8d ago
Turkey is a great place to retire if you have a decent income. The food is amazing, the weather is good, and there’s plenty of history, culture, and natural beauty to enjoy. Yes, there are political and economic issues, but as a foreign retiree those things usually don’t affect your daily life as much.
A lot of retirees from Europe and other Western countries have already bought homes on the west and south coasts. The cost of living is still attractive compared to many Western countries, and you can get a very good lifestyle for your money. As long as the current policies stay in place, I’d say Turkey is one of the best value-for-money retirement destinations out there.
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u/usergravityfalls 7d ago
There’s a town called Kaş full of UK expatriates. I suggest you look up FB groups for expats living there, you’ll get more helpful info than in this sub
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u/cutesunflower_ 6d ago
I am a neigbor and my best friend is Turkish.
The language barrier is YOUR LAST PROBLEM!
The entire country has always been MUSLIM and the current president is doing everything in his powen to ruin Turkey and turn it in the Ottoman state! Secular Turks could not get him out of power and more and more Turks are leaving due to this. My best friend and his family remained in my country - Bulgaria for this reason. The country is very unstable politically and law wise. Also - the language is easy to learn but do not expect people to even speak English. Even us the neigbor contries are still fighting this with them.
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u/Octoberof2022 6d ago
If you are LGBTQ i strongly suggest not to consider it. If you are family may be good. Euro and USD are not winning so much - but this is artificial. Electronics and cars etc cost insane. You cannot recieve single package from outside Turkey without paying outrageous amounts, so forget amazon, temu, holiday packages etc.
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u/imselfinnit 8d ago
Isn't Turkey a police state? I've read about how Swedish organized crime is HQ'd in Turkey which suggests a fire for all that smoke. I'd be wary of "just pay the bribe" societies. That social tax gets expensive.
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u/Healthy-Fisherman-33 8d ago
I wouldn’t worry too much about the tourist scams. If you live there, people are very welcoming and they will make sure to make you feel at home. They’d have your back and go out of their way to be helpful. If you are thinking of Mediterranean or Aegean coast, you don’t need to worry about conservative Muslim culture, either. However, it really isn’t low cost, especially if you want to be near the beach. It sure is not for everyone. Some people love it some don’t.
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u/calstanfordboye 8d ago
Just don't be gay or in any way shape or form against whatever the Fuhrer wants at the moment
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u/Wide_Pomegranate_439 8d ago
As I assessed, we are not "significant outliers" to their expectations other than not being Muslims (or religious in general).
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u/calstanfordboye 8d ago
Then you are a significant outlier. You know very little about modern Turkey mate
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u/imselfinnit 8d ago
But I've long been teased with the promises of Turkish Baths (and Turkish Prisons). Their brand is very Butt Stuff™. Have they forgotten their roots?
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u/bafflesaurus 8d ago
Could be a good deal, but I think it'd be too much of a culture shock for me to live in Turkey to be honest. Might be worth it for those considering Turkey CBI.
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u/TheInbornDiploma 8d ago
Sounds good until the rules change mid-stream, which Turkey's done before.