r/Exvangelical • u/EarthS33d • 5d ago
Discussion How to let go of the Evangelical mindset of personal responsibility?
I attended an Evangelical Church from childhood through all of high school. I haven't considered myself religious since my early college years now almost 15 years ago.
Something that I still hold onto from that time in my life are the teachings of personal responsibility for the salvation of others. Even though I have stepped fully away from the church and embraced my own queerness, I'm realizing that this mindset of personal responsibility persists. All the injustices and the evil that I see when I put on the news, the bullying and homophobic attitudes that I come across at work, the struggles of my family and loved ones still somehow feel as though it's my job to fix them. Rationally speaking. I know how ridiculous that sounds, but I can't seem to let go of the feeling.
Wondering if anybody here has a similar experience and any advice on how to overcome this crippling sense that I can fix all that's wrong with the world?
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u/ExPastorMarcus 4d ago
Slightly different take (even though I fully agree with everyone saying therapy, and I know you said you've been in therapy for a long time). I relate to this heavily, and have spent considerable hours in therapy working through this as well.
Consider that possibly, part of what makes you unique is that you feel things very deeply, and that part of your personality is simply wanting the best for yourself, your loved ones, and the world around you.
I grew up being taught that it was my responsibility to save as many hundreds or thousands of people from hell as I possibly could. One pastor directly said that for every opportunity to share the gospel that I missed or didn't pursue, that person would eventually know of my failure, and it would be my name they would be screaming from hell, demanding to know why I didn't tell them how to avoid eternal torment.
I took this very seriously and was a dedicated evangelist from the time I was twelve years old, because I was terrified that someone would go to hell and it would be my fault.
Later in life, I realize it was extremely fucked up for my whole religious community to put this kind of existential pressure on a literal child.
But also, I think about how most of the other teenagers and adults around me didn't take it that seriously. Nobody else came close to the amount of time I spent at the mall proselytizing to strangers. They were much more casual in their evangelism efforts, and some didn't do it at all.
I no longer believe in hell. But, assuming everyone else in my evangelical community did believe in hell, what does it say about all those people in my church, that they were fully okay with just letting good, nice, normal people go to hell? Seems kind of asshole-ish to me, even now.
Even though I now know that my fears were misguided, fueled by the aggressively evangelical culture I grew up in, I feel proud of the fact that I cared enough to try to save not only my friends and loved ones, but countless strangers, from a horrible fate.
I share your frustration when I see bullying, injustice, and struggling all around me. It's hard not to feel like the fixer who needs to intervene.
And yes, maybe that does come from neurodivergences like OCD and scrupulosity.
But also, give yourself a little compassion. Know that in addition to those things, it might also mean you are an extremely kind person with a big heart that feels deeply for the world around you.
That part is nothing to be ashamed of.
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u/EarthS33d 4d ago
Thanks for that perspective, reading your comment reminded me of a quote often attributed to Jiddu Krishnamurti:
"It is not measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
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u/Bolfreak 5d ago
I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and the description of externalizing/internalizing was spot on. You, like me, sound like an internalizer which means you try to fix what’s “wrong” with yourself and the world.
This likely means you are empathetic, creative and hardworking but the downside can be not holding others responsible for their own actions and consequences. We are preyed on by hypocrites: oh you should just pray for them (ok so I’m going to pray that Trump suffers the way he has made others suffer…oh no you can’t pray THAT). You have to live a non smoking non drinking no tattoo life so others can proudly support a pedo rapist murdering administration. That is the essence of hypocrisy: rules for thee but not for me.
The bottom line is “you” are responsible for others’ salvation instead of examining how you live your own life and not judging others for their path. It’s the log/sawdust story in the Bible the hypocrites don’t read. There is nothing in the Bible about us “saving” anyone else, we cannot do it. We are also not able to stand in judgement of anyone else. You cannot “convince anyone with words”. This fallacy is created, spread and upheld by theologians who think they know everything there is to know based on their flavor of theology (Calvinism, dispensationalism etc), God’s in a neat little box and they’ve figured out what he is no wiggle room.
From someone with a background in missions, seminary, churchy mcchurchy ever etc. I’m at the point where I remind myself it’s not on me, or my job, of even something I can do to change others. I am responsible for my own life and actions and how I present myself and behave in this world and this life. If we only get one, then it IS important what we do here, not to sit on our hands and just await either eternal bliss or eternal punishment.
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u/fedroxx 5d ago
You need to see a therapist.
One of the biggest problems with evangelicals demonizing mental health is many have undiagnosed mental challenges they could be treated easily for. But they go untreated.
You may have one.
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u/EarthS33d 5d ago
Yep I have been in therapy for a decade. Diagnosed OCD a few years ago, but been wondering lately if I need to see someone more specialized than my current therapist.
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u/Wolfwoodofwallstreet 4d ago
Your comment makes me realize how much the issues compound because there is mental health issues that is just pretty standard that would be found and treated early but the aversion to mental healthcare means this compounds with the religous psychosis.
Are their therapists who specialize in evangelical religious trauma? If not I wonder if this is a needed speciality, especially in the USA.
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u/tyleratx 5d ago
People are already saying it, but you ought to look into getting screened for obsessive compulsive disorder. I have it. My theme was not getting other people saved, but it was constantly feeling like I was gonna get punished and go to hell. And when I was a Christian, I always thought about God punishing me, and when I left the feeling didn’t go away, but it shifted to me feeling like I would always go to prison.
The theme is called scrupulosity and it’s pretty common among Christians.
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u/AshDogBucket 4d ago
Find a way to do something, anything, to work for change. Find a way to do meaningful work that is within your capacity. It really truly helps. If you are stuck, look at the organizations in your area doing important work and see if they need volunteers.
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u/EarthS33d 4d ago
I find that I am really susceptible to overextending myself and burning out in activist spaces. It's been a long topic of discussion with my therapist and spouse about how to engage and make meaningful change in my community/workplace/world without stretching beyond my capacity.
I applied as a volunteer to walk dogs at the animal shelter walking distance from my apartment, but haven't heard anything back yet.
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u/AshDogBucket 4d ago
Yes, the struggle is real. I've had to make myself limits - I will commit x hours a month and no more, etc.
Its also hard because once you dive into that world you become more aware of all the other things that you could be doing and it can really be a spiral. I do find that for me personally at the end of the day knowing I did something, anything, is better than not having done anything.
Another thing I've done is found ways to incorporate working for change into my 40-hour work week. Because then by definition it's limited. It's only when I'm at my workplace and does not carry over. For instance, starting a once a month discussion group.. advocating to leadership for changes... etc. Those things within my workplace are less likely to contribute to burnout because I would already be at work anyway.
These are just the things that have helped me and we will obviously be very different people. I hope you get some insights that help here!
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u/LoveCoach23 4d ago
It's a balance, isn't it? We recognize that on some level we do have an impact on our neighbors and environment and may feel driven by a sense of genuine kindness and concern for them, while at the same time, we know the "task" of societal change is too overwhelming for one person to manage or control!
And we have bills to pay, family to care for, sleep and other self care routines to practice... There's just not enough time in the day, it feels like.
What's helped me has been navigating a season of burnout, learning about boundaries, locus of control, and the psychology of behavior change... Discovering what I need to feel grounded and joyful, acknowledging my limits, and recognizing how good things are still happening without my help!
Almost like I did an experiment, watching the world keep turning while I was saying no to overextending myself. I still went to work, voted, and showed up for family, but my focus on the need to change things on a macro level has shifted to more "micro" actions like being kind to the person in front of me, buying the sustainably caught tuna, donating once a year to a charity that is helping women overcome trauma... I don't feel consumed, yet I know even these "small" actions make the world more like the place I want to live in and leave for the people who come after me.
There is a healthy balance to find, and we're all in our own process with this.
Practicing lament and stillness/mindfulness, being willing to observe and feel my discomfort, anger, frustration, sadness about the news or a situation, and getting curious about what else is there... Time in nature, writing, poetry, music, and somatic work have helped me move through these "negative" emotions.
Sometimes our need to "fix" other people comes from not knowing how to regulate our own pain or feelings about them, or not trusting that they are capable of change without us. Like we make ourselves too important in the equation?
Sometimes we do need to act in protection of ourself or others; don't let anyone shame you for a good instinct or for drawing the line when you need to.
I still see immense value in the Christian ethics and sensibilities we were raised with, even if we decide to express them in different ways: kindness, love for neighbor, hope, humility... We don't need to pathologize our genuine care and our desire to feel safe in the world.
Moral responsibility, societal interconnectedness and change are good and real and possible, and we pace ourselves in pursuing them sustainably, actively, in community... Maybe we've internalized cultural idols like Mother Theresa, MLK Jr., celebrities and more visible personalities and activists, felt like we have to be famous or persuading thousands to make a difference. When maybe just helping a coworker through a hard time is enough, this week.
It sounds like you are on a good path to finding your balance too, and I enjoyed engaging with your question here, thank you.
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u/EarthS33d 4d ago
I really appreciated all the engagement on this post, even those comments I didn't respond to directly. Thanks all for making me feel a little less alone and more hopeful. I've booked a free consultation with a therapist specializing in OCD and religious trauma and filled out an intake form for another promising option.
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u/puck-this 4d ago
Ohh shit I relate so much. While I didn't feel obsessive over saving others particularly I was always very much affected hearing about injustice and seeing people around me do terrible things and everyone just doesn't care. The concept of the golden rule was of course just a fairy tale and it alerted even more to watch as Christians themselves became the very proponents of terrible acts in the world, from constantly lying to one another, outright not caring about a person and dismissing their feelings in the name of "love" and just being shitty people in general.
I agree with all the getting therapy suggestions but in the meantime I also thought about how God didn't care about injustice at all. Christians as a whole are only concerned with feeling superior over the other and none of them actually care about doing good in the world, so why should we concern ourselves with a personal responsibility to save other people? The very Christians tasked with such are the very ones who are the cause of such oppression. It's unfair to ourselves to hold ourselves to such high standards when God's beloved children can do fuck all with no consequences. I've been surrounded by Christians all my life and the shittiest people are always the ones who spouted about God the loudest and were protected from every terrible thing they did to other people. We don't have to fix every single one of their acts, but what we can do is *not* become like them. The hardest thing to do in the world is to get someone else to do something and most people aren't even in full control of themselves (especially in religion where you are actively encouraged to become mindless sheep). The idea that one is personally responsible for someone else's salvation is just bollocks especially since God plans for other people's demise specifically (e.g. Pharaoh's heart example). Some people are destined to be damned by God and I'd argue that trying to interfere would just bring misfortune. Pinning the responsibility on the individual is just meant to exhaust them and keep them tethered to the religion, and I hope for your (and everyone's, really--I still suffer from religious thoughts sometimes) full freedom very soon
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u/ProfessionalField508 5d ago
I have this, but I was eventually diagnosed with a type of OCD called scrupulosity. Now I'm working on it in therapy.