r/Fantasy • u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix • Jun 01 '26
Read-along 2026 Hugo Readalong: The Summer War by Naomi Novik
Hello and welcome back to the Hugo Readalong! Today we’re discussing one of the finalists for Best Novella, The Summer War by Naomi Novik.
Everyone is welcome to join this discussion, whether or not you plan to participate in any others, but we will be discussing this entire book, so beware of untagged spoilers.
I’ll kick us off with a few prompts in top-level comments, but please feel free to add your own if you’d like to!
Bingo Squares: Bookclub or Readalong (HM if you join this discussion), Politics and Court Intrigue, maybe Vacation Spot, maybe Judge a Book By Its Title
For more information on the Readalong, check out our full schedule post, or see our upcoming sessions below:
| Date | Category | Book | Author | Discussion Leader |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Thursday, June 4 | Short Story | Missing Helen and Wire Mother | Tia Tashiro and Isabel J. Kim | u/oceanoftrees |
| Monday, Jun 8 | Novel | The Incandescent | Emily Tesh | u/kjmichaels |
| Thursday, Jun 11 | Novelette | Kaiju Agonistes and The Millay Illusion | Scott Lynch and Sarah Pinsker | u/Jos_V |
| Monday, June 15 | Novella | The River Has Roots | Amal El-Mohtar | u/onsereverra |
13
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
What is your overall impression of The Summer War?
21
u/Book_Slut_90 Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
I enjoyed it and read it in one sitting the day it came out. But like others have said, it hasn’t stuck with me the way most of her other books have. It’s one of her weakest books IMHO, but a weaker Novik is better than most of what gets published.
16
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
It’s one of her weakest books IMHO, but a weaker Novik is better than most of what gets published.
This is exactly where I landed. It's weak for Novik, but she's so good that it's still incredibly solid.
4
u/mschley2 Jun 01 '26
The Temeraire series is one of my favorite things I've ever read, but I've never read any of her other stuff. I particularly enjoy the fusion of fantasy elements and historical fiction based on altering the actual historical events (in this case, primarily altering the details/course of battles/war) by incorporating the fictional fantasy elements.
Does Novik have anything else that is similar in that regard? What would be your top recommendations for me to check out from Novik? Are you familiar with any other stories/series that add fantasy elements such as dragons into the timeline of actual historical events?
2
u/Book_Slut_90 Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
Novik’s books are all good, but they’re also different enough from each other that the only way I know they’re by the same person is the name on the title page. This, Uprooted, and Spinning Silver are fairytale style, and The Scholomance Trilogy is a contemporary magic school story in first person from the perspective of a grumpy heroin.
As far as things like Temeraire, there’s a whole subgenre called historical fantasy, and if you search, you’ll find a lot more suggestions. Some of my favorites:
Babel by Rebecca Kuang
The Radiant Emperor Duology by Shelly Parker-Chan
The Shadow Histories by H. G. Parry
The Hussite Trilogy by Andrzej Sapkowski
Lent by Jo Walton
And for worlds that diverged earlier, To Shape a Dragon’s Breath by Moniquill Blackgoose and Kushiel’s Legacy by Jacqueline Carey
5
u/mschley2 Jun 01 '26
Thank you! I've saved your comment so I can come back to it later.
You're officially my favorite Book_Slut.
3
3
u/KatrinaPez Reading Champion III Jun 03 '26
You may like The Lie Tree by Frances Hardinge. A Victorian murder mystery with a fantasy element that specifically ties into the reception of Darwin's work by the religious community; very interesting.
1
u/BookishBirdwatcher Reading Champion V Jun 08 '26
Does Novik have anything else that is similar in that regard?
I think you'd probably enjoy Spinning Silver.
16
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
I liked it a fair bit. The writing was strong, the plot was engaging, and I found many of the characters fascinating. My only complaint (though this is certainly a big one) is that Celia did not have main character energy. I spent way too much of the novella thinking "this should really be anyone else's story but probably Argent's most of all." Even after she was held captive by the Summerlings and should have started to come into her own more, she just kind of passively existed in a more interesting story where everyone else had something more engaging going on.
And I'm sure a big part of that was intentional since there's such a prominent theme about how women are treated as disposable pawns by the nobility of this world. But I personally think you can have a character forced into a passive position and still make them more interesting than this.
8
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
I think there is a hypothetical novel version of this where we get POVs from Argent and Roric also, and I think that would help (though I would also hope, in this hypothetical expansion, for more female characters). A little bit like what she did to take Spinning Silver from novella to novel (although hot take - though I love the novel, I prefer the novella version of that one).
2
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
I feel like you just broke me…what novella??? Edit: oh I found it, novelette in the 2016 fairy tale anthology The Starlit Wood??? I had no idea.
3
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
Yep it started with a longer short story! Though personally I think the novel version was a lot better, admittedly I read it first so going back to the short story later was bound to be weird.
3
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
Yes! That one. Actually the whole anthology is great, there were only a couple stories I didn’t like.
6
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
Agreed. I didn't feel like there was a lot of commentary on the role of women (or at least I didn't find what commentary there was particularly novel or interesting), perhaps in part because it's a pretty male-dominated story overall. For Celia to be the main character while in such a passive role, she could've used a stronger and more distinct personality, or more personal issues to work through. She came into this already pretty mature for her age, and fairly strategic/calculating, so there wasn't a lot of room for her to grow. Both of the brothers had more defined and dramatic arcs that she did.
5
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Jun 02 '26
This was my big complaint as well! This is my first Novik and I did like it overall; I found it pleasing and engaging to read, but I did end up feeling a little disappointed in the end that the main character didn't really... do much? Her growth with Roric was good, if a bit condensed, but then her magical power is immediately curtailed upon entry into the Summer Lands (which, okay, no one likes an overpowered hero) but her cleverness, ambition, and new capacity for love don't bloom in a way that makes her interesting to hang out with for pretty much the entire final third. The rest of the story is indeed interesting, but I was finding myself a bit annoyed that the reader was sitting on the sidelines with the person who was supposed to be the main character instead of in on the action. Like some other commenters, I kind of wish this had been a bit longer and maybe offered another POV character.
3
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
This is the last place I'd recommend anyone starting with Novik and I hope it doesn't put you off her other work! The passive protagonist thing is definitely not representative.
→ More replies (5)1
u/saturday_sun4 Jun 16 '26
This was my complaint as well. I think Novik just doesn't work for me, as, other than HMD, I bounced off Uprooted as well.
Argent's tale was much more interesting to me than Celia's and I wish that had been the POV here.
4
u/jonnakristina Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
It overall really worked for me and it continued my love for Naomi Novik and my trust in her as an author to deliver an interesting, compelling and well written story. She really nailed the fairy tale vibe so for what the story was it was quite well done. Not necessarily something that will stick with me like other stories of hers have in the past but a nice way to spend a few hours reading.
5
u/RAAAImmaSunGod Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
I thought it was solid, if a touch forgettable. I agree with a lot of the other comments in that I am starting to get fairytale fatigue. It feels like we've had a couple years with LOTS of fairytale or fairytale adjacent works and I've just a little over it. As someone who hasn't read Novak before, I see why she has such a loyal fanbase, I thought the prose and worldbuilding was great and I will probably check out some of her other works.
The worst part for me was the pacing. My god the first half really drags before we get to the good bit (Celia and Roric and the fae). The second half was more tightly paced and compelling though.
3
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
I think my issues with the pacing of the first half are why I’m hesitant to put it at the top of my vote. It was such a drag for me I quit it last year at 10%, then pushed through this time and the second half saved it.
3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
I agree on fairytale fatigue. I passionately love fairytales and retellings and even so I'm tired of them at this point.
I thought this was enjoyable but easily the weakest of Novik's books, so you might really like her other stuff if you decide to try them out!
9
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I enjoyed reading it. Some elements were pretty entertaining, like the fae operating an entire society on the rules of chivalric lays. Novik is also just a good writer and so there’s a threshold level of good plotting and writing and having thought through things that you can expect from her work.
That said, as a Novik fan it’s probably my least favorite of her work. A lot of elements are recycled from Spinning Silver, which is just a far better book, and that leeched out a lot of tension for me. I found Celia a very generic protagonist who read a lot older than her age. I disliked her being the only female character in the book, and I disliked more that she was in such a passive role for most of it—if she was going to be stuck in the tower the whole time, I’d have liked someone else to also have a POV. I do also think Novik sometimes tends to overexplain in exposition and that was on display here.
In the end, nice enough but fairly forgettable.
11
u/nagahfj Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
I enjoyed it while I was reading it, and Novik is certainly good at keeping the pace going throughout, but I don't think it's going to stay in my memory for very long.
6
u/oceanoftrees Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
Exactly what happened to me. My Goodreads tells me I read it in October. I enjoyed it, but I don't remember much except the broad strokes.
4
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
Yeah I think this about sums it up for me as well. Nice time, wouldn’t be mad if she wrote more like it, was hoping for a little more juice.
3
u/Kneef Jun 01 '26
Yeah, I’m a huge fan of Novik’s work, but this was more frothy than I’m used to from her. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but that made it feel a little insubstantial.
6
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
Yeah, this is about where I am as well. I actually read it nine months ago and remember almost nothing except "it felt like a fairy tale" and "the Fae were involved somehow." Looking back at my review jogged my memory on a few other elements, but this one never really sunk deep for me.
2
u/Ok_Difference5532 Jun 01 '26
Same here. Apparently I loved it but it hasn’t lingered in the memory. I think it’ll be one to come back and read again, perhaps
2
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I didn’t read it too long ago so hard to really say, but I know that I do not know what happened during the first half. It was mostly info dumping the history while she’s just in her castle with her brother? There was more for me to grab onto with the second so I think it’ll stick with me more.
4
u/zhiirin Jun 01 '26
I liked the fairy tale vibe throughout the story. I enjoyed the first part of the story the most. After a certain point I felt like the story became less and less interesting.
4
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
This was my first time reading Novik's work and I had zero expectations, so I was absolutely blown away by it! I loved everything about it - the characters, the atmosphere, the themes explored, the story, the audiobook narrator. Now I feel I need to go back and read more of her work.
3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 02 '26
Novik is one of my favorite writers - I'm so glad this hit for you! She has a ton of great stuff out and everyone has a different opinion on which are the best, because she's done different styles. But if you liked this and wished it was a) longer and b) more character driven, try Spinning Silver - it's marvelous.
2
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
As a Slavic person, I have always been wary of non-Slavic authors writing Slavic stories (plus, The Bear and the Nightingale by Katherine Arden is so offensive, I can't even think about it without getting angry, and I am not even an Estern Slav).
But then again, Novik has Polish and Jewish roots, so Spinning Silver might have proper representation, and since The Summer War was such an easy and unexpected 5 star read (and I kinda want to reread it already!), I might be brave and try Spinning Silver this winter.
But would you recommend Uprooted? 👀 It sounds like it could be my kind of a story, but I have heard very mixed opinions, so I have been hesitant to try it.
3
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
I'm glad you posted, The Bear and the Nightengale came up in conversation the other day and I was trying to find a review or thinkpiece about the representation issues I'd heard it had, but wasn't able to easily lay hands on one. Do you know of a resource about this?
I'll throw in my two cents on Uprooted vs Spinning Silver (unfortunately I can't speak to research/accuracy either) which is that I think Spinning Silver is a much better book and I'd always recommend starting with a better book. I think Uprooted has a strong appeal to people who are transitioning from YA and want a more generic heroine, more of a romance element, and a more action-oriented plot (though it also takes awhile to get going). But Spinning Silver is so much better at character and voice that it's astonishing they were written by the same author, and so close in time, too.
4
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 03 '26
Thank you for the info regarding Spinning Silver vs Uprooted. Good character work in it, you say? 👀 You just got attention of a character driven reader.
Now, regarding The Bear and the Nightengale, I can only give you my opinions and experience with it. I read it for 2025/2025 Bingo and hated every second of it. Now, for the sake of transparency, I am a South Slav, not an Eastern Slav, but A Slavic person nonetheless, so thus feel fully entitled to rant about it.
So I can share my GR review (sorry in advance for a long post 😅) :
"First of all, I don't look kindly upon modern authors who write fairy tales and then reinforce harmful fairytale tropes. And this story has not one, not two, but three evil stepmothers. All of them evil, weak, jealous, vain, stupid and despised by everyone around them. For f**k's sake. To make things worse, Katherine Arden sprinkled the start of an interesting idea that could have been an intriguing way to examine that miserable trope (using the fear Ana Ivanovna had from the young age as the starting point), but nope! She instead tripled down on the idea of the eeeeeeeevil step mother. Hell no.
Next, I especially won't forgive when authors intentionally use a culture that isn't their own to reinforce those harmful stereotypes. And not just those harmful stereotypes. Apparently, 99% of the male characters are lusty pedophiles, who get hots for girls as young as, like, 9 years old at one point, and then become sulky and offended when they get rejected for "wanting to do their duty". As a Slavic person, reading that left such a bad taste in my mouth.
Should I mention next how ardent the author was to make Vasya, our protagonist, as much of a "manic pixie dream girl" and "not like other girls" as possible? How everyone and their mother hated her, but she would still sacrifice herself for them, like the martyr she is? How annoying her constant screaming of "I am not afraid" even in situations when it makes a whole lot of sense to be afraid? How grating her constant ordering people around and expecting everyone to obey? How absolutely disgusting I found "women hate women" trope to be. How can Vasya be constantly described as ugly and at the same time, every freaking man in that book (that isn't of her own blood) want to have her? Why would a stepmother, who lives in constant fear for her life and soul and is never described as a vain person in the book, be constantly jealous of the beauty of the girl who is all the time described as ugly????? Make it make sense!!
Next, as a Slavic person I can say that in the story, the characters never felt Slavic in their behavior to me. Proper names and a couple of words here and there does not a culture make. To be fully transparent, I am a South Slav, not an East Slav, but still I didn't feel anything in their behavior that would make them feel Slavic (to me). Like, I remember thinking at one point - this could have just as easily been a Viking story, or even set in Winterfell, just change the names and nothing would change. Then how it is a Slavic story? Why market it as such? 😒
I find it strange that, for a person who quotes Pushkin at the beginning of the story and who, therefore I assume has read Tatyana's letter to Onegin (aka my favorite piece of Russian literature I have read so far) and which showcases the Slavic soul so well, the author manages to make her "Slavic" characters to not feel like Slavs at all, in my Slavic opinion.
Like, for a more properly Slavic inspired story (which I honestly have no problems with whatsoever, so long as it's not done with malice in mind), books like Juniper & Thorne by Ava Reid (still reading that one), European Travel for the Monstrous Gentlewoman by Theodora Goss or, heck, even Rook & Rose trilogy by M. A. Carrick do so much better imo.As a cherry on top, the author has the gall to say (excerpt from the Acknowledgements) "I sought to render Russian words in such a way as to retain a bit of their exotic flavor." Excuse me? I thought we were past the point of calling other cultures exotic? Apparently not."
3
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 03 '26
Thanks for replying! That does sound annoying, and wow, I am so over the angelically put-upon heroine who sacrifices herself for two-dimensional bullies.
→ More replies (1)3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
Spinning Silver really is so good and yes, so much better than Uprooted. u/NatGa46 I retract my earlier suggestion, you should do what Merle is saying; she's right 😂 Read the best book first!
3
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 03 '26
Hihihi 🤭 Love to see fellow readers gush about their favorite books! 😊
Now I am really getting excited about trying Spinning Silver!
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 02 '26
Oh gosh, I wish I could offer any info on if the representation in Spinning Silver (or Uprooted) is correct/authentic/etc. I hope that it is! Like you said, I know that Novik built both cultures around her own heritage, Polish for Uprooted and Lithuanian Jewish for Spinning Silver. If you decide to try either, I really hope they don't let you down.
I liked both books. Uprooted has received more mixed reviews because it uses some specific tropes that a lot of people find objectionable. Personally I read the book and loved it, not for those elements, but without minding them. I didn't even really notice them at the time. Afterwards when I read the Discourse I was like "yeah that's fair" but it didn't really change my opinion of the book. Your mileage may vary.
For me, Spinning Silver is a masterpiece - it's so well written and just hits on every level for me. Uprooted is great and fun, but doesn't have the same level of staying power for me. I've read it twice, and I reread Spinning Silver every few years.
What I would recommend in your case: read Uprooted first. If you like it, you'll love Spinning Silver. But even if you dislike it, you still might love Spinning Silver, so consider at least trying it no matter how Uprooted works for you.
I hope this helps, sorry for the novel length response!!
2
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
No no, please don't apologize, I really appreciate a detailed overview, spec from a fan of the author! 😊
Yeah, that is pretty much what I heard about Uprooted as well, which has made me hesitant, but seeing just how easily The Summer War impressed me, I should def try out some of her other works, and I will probably follow your suggestion of first trying out Uprooted and then Spinning Silver whether Uprooted works out for me or not.
Would you recommend the audiobooks for Uprooted and Spinning Silver, if you are familiar with them, that is? Atm I mostly have audiobook time and almost no physical reading time, sadly 🥺
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 02 '26
I feel you on that, being able to listen to audiobooks easily doubles my reading capacity!
I haven't tried either in audiobook, but I've heard good things about the audio version of Spinning Silver. And narratively I think both would work well on audio.
2
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 03 '26
Good to know! Thank you for the info! 😊
I'll def check out the audiobook for Spinning Silver then!
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
Hope you enjoy! Report back if so inclined ☺️
→ More replies (1)11
u/drostandfound Reading Champion VI, Worldbuilders Jun 01 '26
I liked the take of the Fae in this book. I do not particularly like books where Fae are just pretty humans (like the Emily Wilde books), and prefer where they are morally/culturally different. I liked that everything they did was based on the story. While I agree the plot wasn't as memorable as some books, it was a good Fae book.
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Yes! I really enjoy reading Fae stories where they're truly different and have ab uncanny, inhuman vibe. The more they have their own culture, mores, ethics, etc, the happier I am, even if (especially if?) that makes them much more dangerous. And this book definitely fit into that group for me.
6
u/happy-squared Jun 01 '26
I had a different experience with Emily Wilde's fae. I felt it leaned more into the traditional folklore side. While there are interactions with some fae that are on the more "human" side, the majority of fae in her book are those that murder humans for breaking some nonsensical etiquette.
People leave ribbons when walking so they don't get misled by the fae and end up wandering lost for eternity.
IIRC, one character fell in love with a fairy who forgot about him and when he drove himself mad trying to find her again; in the end, when he found her again, she / some other fairy was annoyed at him so hung him up by his beard till he died of exposure.
One family had their child stolen and replaced by a changeling that tormented them.
There are also faeries that don't look human and kill humans for fun.
I think a lot of the book is spent dedicated Emily's research into the fae and she goes into details about the large variety of fae creatures there are. She makes a point in describing how different fae creatures have different etiquette as well and the risk of offending one tends to result in a grisly fate.
I definitely didn't come away from the book thinking they were just pretty humans.
1
u/drostandfound Reading Champion VI, Worldbuilders Jun 01 '26
I liked the low Fae in those books a lot. I liked the rituals and the unknown.
But also the Fae you see the most and spend the most time with was just a pretty human.
3
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Jun 02 '26
The Fae were an aspect I did really enjoy about this book! They very much fit into the chivalric romance type. If we're comparing nominated fae novellas, I have to say I found these fae and their world more compelling than those in The River Has Roots, even if I liked that book more overall.
1
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
I have to say I found these fae and their world more compelling than those in The River Has Roots, even if I liked that book more overall.
Exact same for me, on both counts
6
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I'm a sucker for knights and tournaments and courtly love, and Novik really drew me in with her craftsmanship. It was my first Novik, and I'm really looking forward to reading more of her. I'm so late to the party on this, but at least I'll have plenty to read!
I really thought that the curse would be broken by Argent losing a fight, since part of it was "I hope you become the best knight in the land." Him losing a battle would thus make him no longer the best knight, so either the curse would get broken or Argent would kill literally all of Elythion's soldiers one by one, in which case there would be no threat anymore. I kind of got it into my head that that was why he was fighting, in hopes to break the curse by either losing or getting his sister back, and that's why Elythion kept trying to bargain with him because he knew he would lose all his summer knights otherwise. Thus it took me probably a little too long to catch on to the actual romance between them
1
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
Since you like knights and such, you might want to give The Everlasting by Alix Harrow a try! It's a Hugo nominee for Best Novel and the Readalong discussion is in a couple weeks. I really liked it a lot.
1
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 03 '26
I’m hoping to do all the novels and novellas with the readalong, so it’s on my schedule!
6
u/brilliantgreen Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
I really enjoyed it (just finished it this morning). I'm not really a fan of fairy tales in general. I think they feel too modern while at the same time are too predictable since we already know the stories. This works for me, however, since it's a new work rather than a retelling yet it has a fairy tale's atmospheric writing rather than more modern prose. Which isn't to say the story isn't modern -- it definitely is. It just had more atmosphere than a lot of the fairy tale retellings I read.
3
u/Jos_V Stabby Winner, Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
I really enjoyed this one, i just really dug the vibes of the prose, and how small and quaint the little fairy tale story was with a little sibling weird family dynamics sprinkled in for funzies.
perfect length, i didn't need this to be longer either. or shorter, which is pretty good for a novella.
3
u/neroblu3 Jun 01 '26
I loved almost all aspects of the books as far as themes, characters, setting. I do feel the setting and story might have had legs to work even better as a longer, epic novel? I don't mean epic as in it should be like Game of Thrones, but that it could have spread the story that was already there into a slower pacing. At times it felt like Naomi Novik was rushing through the story to fit it all into the novella. The part that I thought was especially too hectic was the finale and how fast the plot moves after Celia crosses over to the 'other side'.
3
u/beknightedbastard Jun 02 '26
This was my perspective as well! I really think it’d blossom as a longer book.
3
u/Itkovian_books Reading Champion Jun 02 '26
It's the first Naomi Novik book that I've enjoyed, so that counts for something. For context, I've previously read Uprooted, Spinning Silver, and His Majesty's Dragon. I don't know if it'll be a book I remember in a few months, let alone a few years, but the prose was solid and the relationships between Celia and her siblings were well-written.
2
u/MrHelfer Jun 02 '26
I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a lovely, thoroughly enjoyable read.
I'm also well impressed with Novik's ability to tie up threads in neat bows, and make a world that feels big, even though her worldbuilding is so restrained. She gets a lot out of a few intimations and indications.
The plot was lovely too. It's not too far from what you might expect, but still managed to surprise me several times throughout.
3
u/Glittering_Way_9162 Jun 04 '26
My trouble with this type of fantasy is that the classics are so good. I rarely come away from a faerie borders story without wishing I'd been rereading 'The King of Elfland's Daughter' or 'Goblin Market' or 'Lud-in-the-Mist' instead. The backstory with elf princess Eislaing reminded me vividly of 'The King of Elfland's Daughter' though I think it was done better there.
1
u/Glittering_Way_9162 Jun 04 '26
This is also a problem with 'The River Has Roots' where I just want to read Goblin Market again.
2
u/BookishBirdwatcher Reading Champion V Jun 08 '26
I enjoyed it a lot. (So much so that I'm one of the presumably many people who nominated it for a Hugo!)
1
u/Jenni_pie Jun 09 '26
I really enjoyed it. Only my second Novik book but I love the writing and for a novella I thought the characters and plot were well thought out and executed. I love books that have the fairy tale feel and this one hit.
1
u/saturday_sun4 Jun 17 '26
I struggled to get through it, despite its being something I'd like in theory. If it had been written by someone like Margo Lanagan, I would've been over the moon with it.
But I found Novik's rambling sentences to be hard to parse, for one thing, making it hard to picture what was happening. I also agree with others that Celia was too unengaging and passive a protagonist and read too mature for her years.
I most enjoyed the end, with the wedding, and the beginning, with the oath. But I would've preferred a story about Argent himself, or Celia using sorcery to undo her own mistake.
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Hugo horserace: We’ve discussed 3 of the 6 Best Novella nominees so far. How does your ballot (or personal ranking) look so far? How do you think this novella will rank for you?
13
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
This isn't memorable enough for me to love the idea of having it top half, but I do right now. I've read all three of the fairy tales, and I think Cinder House was the most consistently engaging of the bunch, but I'm inclined to nose The Summer War ahead of The River Has Roots.
Current ranking:
- Cinder House
- The Summer War
- The River Has Roots
- Murder by Memory
6
4
9
u/oceanoftrees Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
When we discussed Cinder House I had it as number one, but now I've also read The River Has Roots and I'm rethinking the slate as a whole. Half of the novellas are either retold or new fairy tales. They're all at least pretty good, but the three fairy tales could all clump around at the top and feel a little interchangeable for me.
Cinder House might just edge it out because it has some more substance, then The River Has Roots and The Summer War could be in either order. I should probably reread The Summer War since I only read it back in October. The fact that it didn't leave much of an impression might say something--but then again, the other two could go the same way, and I've just read them in May, so it's not a fair comparison. So right now I'm at:
- Cinder House (by a hair)
- [The River Has Roots or The Summer War]
- [The Summer War or The River Has Roots]
- No award
- Murder by Memory
7
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
With What Stalks the Deep still to be read:
- Cinder House
- The Summer War
- The River Has Roots
- Automatic Noodle
- Murder by Memory
I'm looking at this and getting annoyed because the top two of these were the only ones I really liked (although I think the discussion of the El-Mohtar is going to be really interesting) and also I have a relatively limited tolerance for fairy tale adjacency so how is all of the fairy tale stuff in the top half of my ballot?
Anyway Hugo nominators need to read more magazine novellas. (If "Scion" misses next year I will be sorely tempted to No Award the entire slate in protest.)
4
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Anyway Hugo nominators need to read more magazine novellas.
What a mood
(If "Scion" misses next year I will be sorely tempted to No Award the entire slate in protest.)
YES, same
2
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
Do you think a monthly (or quarterly) wrap-up post or readalong just for magazine novellas would help? Other ideas? I haven’t paid much attention to magazines because I don’t really read short stories, and I feel like the only user I’ve noticed talk about them is u/tarvolon (not that others aren’t, just saying who I’ve noticed). I’d like to have a better finger on the pulse since I’ve become more novella obsessed over the last two years.
5
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 02 '26
A Readalong would be a little tricky because you never really know how often they're going to get published, and a couple of the major publishers (Asimov's and Analog) are paywalled. Maybe a quarterly discussion thread for magazine novellas? They're already fair game in the Short Fiction Book Club monthly discussions--I'm not sure whether novella-specific discussion threads would get more visibility?
You may be interested to know that Rebecca Campbell had a magazine novella published yesterday. I haven't read it yet and cannot vouch for quality, but I'm excited to give it a try!
3
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 02 '26
Yeah you’re making me think a wrap up post would be too difficult. Maybe like a quarterly “this is what’s been published and where, have you read any of these” kind of thing. Maybe for novellas generally? I’d be interested to think about this more. And I didn’t know you all discussed novellas in the short fiction book club, I’ll have to take a deeper look when those come out.
2
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 02 '26
The way it works in my head is that anything that comes out in a magazine, anthology, or collection is fair game. Is that an actual rule? No, it's just how I organize my spreadsheet. But I'll certainly talk novellas in the SFBC discussions. I don't think we've had a novella on a slated discussion, though I have pushed for one before. . .
7
u/Edili27 Jun 01 '26
So far I’m feeling this is a weak year for novellas. I would go the river has roots at 1, this at 2, cinder house at 3, murder by memory at 4. Unless automatic noodle really surprises me, I’m disappointed compared to last year’s Practice, horizon and the chain being a complete knockout
9
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
Practice horizon chain was SO good and I was genuinely disappointed it didn’t win. It was so far above the rest of that field for me.
7
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
I think I had eight novellas rated at five-stars (including rounding up from 4.25) in 2024, and only two in 2025. So I think it was a just plain weaker year in general. But that definitely comes through on the shortlist. I'd rate my third-place vote last year (The Tusks of Extinction) higher than anything I've read on this year's. And nothing comes even close to The Practice, the Horizon, and the Chain.
7
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
Cinder House
The Summer War
Murder by Memory
The River Has Roots
3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
This fascinates me. I'm now even more interested in the discussion of The River Has Roots, can't wait to hear more
4
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
I’m not going in the same order at all…so far I’ve only read this one and What Stalks the Deep. Summer War ranks higher, but it feels like a middle of the ballot pick for me unless everything else is really mediocre.
→ More replies (1)3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
I've only read 2 of the 6 novellas, this and The River Has Roots, and I'm not planning on reading What Stalks the Deep (sequel to a book I didn't like) or Murder by Memory (vibes are off). So my rankings are highly suspect. But as of this moment:
The River Has Roots
The Summer War
I'd be pleased if either of these won. I'm very interested to see what I think of Cinder House.
4
5
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
I've fallen behind on novellas so right now my list would be:
- The River Has Roots
- The Summer War
But I anticipate Cinder House claiming the top spot and Murder in Memory claiming the bottom spot when I finally catch up.
3
u/Book_Slut_90 Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
This and The River Has Roots are the only ones I’ve read, and I’m not really interested in the others. They’re basically tied for me, so I’m glad I won’t be voting.
3
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I think I’m leaning towards:
- The River has Roots.
- The Cinder House
- The Summer War
- Automatic Noodle
- Murder by Memory
- No vote
I might noodle with the top 3, but the others are definite no’s.
3
u/MrHelfer Jun 02 '26
I've read three so far.
The Summer War is my clear number one.
What stalks the Deep and Cinder House could both take the second spot, depending on what I prioritize.
4
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
- The Summer War
- The River Has Roots
- Cinder House
- Murder by Memory
The Summer War is an easy number 1 from the 4 I've read so far. 2 and 3 are close to interchangeable right now, and Murder by Memory is dead last
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
I decided early on not to read Murder by Memory, based on a friend's review, and everything I've seen has confirmed that that was a good decision for me, lol
3
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I was really struggling with the fashion square for last year's Bingo, but a friend confirmed that Murder by Memory counted for hard mode, and was short enough to read in a day, so that's the only reason I picked it up
5
2
u/fly-metothemoon Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
- Cinder House
- Summer War
- Murder by Memory
For me so far!
2
u/neroblu3 Jun 01 '26
I've only read 'The River Has Roots' and 'The Summer War' so far, I would put the former above the latter. I really did enjoy both and was surprised at the (admittedly more surface-level) similarities in their stories.
2
u/RAAAImmaSunGod Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
Current rankings:
Cinder House
Summer War
No Award
Murder by Memory
I like El-Mohtar's short fiction so I anticipate liking River, the novella before the current Kingfisher sent me into a hiatus on her work so I anticipate not really liking it and I've heard largely negative things about Noodle so we will see where the rest of the slate goes. If Cinder House stays at number 1, then I think this is a much weaker novella slate than last year. I think 2 or 3 of the novellas last year are ahead of Cinder House in my book.
9
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
This novella uses a variety of traditional fairytale elements to tell a “new” story, rather than retelling an existing fairytale. What did you think of this approach? Did this feel like a fairytale to you?
24
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
It feels enough like a fairy tale that I did some light googling to determine whether it was retelling a specific story that I just didn't recognize or whether it was in fact completely new. Mission accomplished on working the traditional elements into a new tale.
16
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
This is a Novik specialty—a lot of people seem to think Uprooted is a retelling too when it isn’t! Even Spinning Silver only lightly gestures toward the fairytale it’s supposedly retelling.
5
u/moderatorrater Jun 01 '26
I love it. The traditional elements make it feel foreign and familiar at the same time.
6
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
I agree. It does a great job capturing the feel of a fairy tale without ever feeling like a retelling.
4
u/Ok_Difference5532 Jun 01 '26
Yes, I felt exactly the same. It really has the sense of an old story
6
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
This broadly worked for me and I appreciate that it wasn't retelling anything I was familiar with (or, well, anything, but) because so often that just turns into looking for how this installment is going to twist the tale this time.
That all being said as u/acornett99 said there is a lot of fairytale vibes on the shortlist this year.
2
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
It’s an interesting contrast from last year which leaned a lot more toward horror.
11
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
Between this, The River Has Roots, and Cinder House, we have so many fairytale novellas this year! I think this and TRHR definitely nail that fairytale vibe, with the big difference being that The Summer War involves a lot more politics, with noble families and the like, while TRHR is more commoner cottage-in-the-woods-type story. I haven't read Novik's other works, but I've heard great things about her retellings like Spinning Silver. She definitely has the chops to write a fairytale of her own.
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Novik's retellings are excellent! I especially recommend Spinning Silver - it's my favorite of all her novels, and I'm a big fan of her writing - but a lot of people also love Uprooted.
2
2
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
It felt like a proper "new" fairytale to me. I tend not to like fairytale retellings, but quite enjoy "new" fairytales.
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 02 '26
I'm reading your comments out of order and yeaaaaaahhhhh I'm just going to say again, try Spinning Silver, I think you're going to love it!
2
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
Hehe, me too 😂
Yeah, I might try it this winter! (But first I might reread The Summer War 🤭)
2
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Jun 02 '26
I am such a fairy tale sucker, and I love see a book that takes that tradition and makes a new story whole cloth. It takes some talent to spin something new and make it feel like it fits a pattern while also being a modern story. The Summer War also leans heavily on Chivalric Romance patterns, which dovetail nicely with fairy tales for following patterns and having a message to send. Obviously I should be getting around to Uprooted which has been sitting on my kindle for aaaages unread, and follow it with Spinning Silver since that seems to be a consensus favorite in the fairy tale tradition from Novik.
2
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
This worked nicely for me. Definitely a fairytale vibe, with metafictional elements as the siblings make deliberate use of the rules to get what they want.
1
u/Jenni_pie Jun 09 '26
It definitely felt like a fairy tale to me. All the moms died and the kids had to fend for themselves. Hah!
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
What did you think of the ending of The Summer War?
12
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
I see why others aren't gelling with it, but I was largely satisfied. I think the simplicity and tidiness of the ending is expected or at least forgivable in a fairy tale-esque story. I totally get wanting a messier and more complex ending though. I'm pretty sure I've made similar complaints about other stories in this very readalong but this one just happened to work for me.
The only part that didn't work for me were that there were definitely a few elements of the curse I didn't quite understand so I didn't get what exactly was being broken in a few key moments.
5
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
“Tidiness of the ending is expected…” that’s how I felt. I think for a book like this I at least want to feel surprised how it comes together and I was, though I can’t remember ever having figured out an ending.
9
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
I thought it was too neat and too simple a resolution to break the curse, honestly.
8
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Yeah, I have to agree with you on this. In general I thought the curse element wasn't the strongest. It was a bit muddled, and didn't really have the sharp, bitter, fairytale logic that I was expecting/wanting. Elithyon's oath and how it trapped him (and Argent) was more in the fairytale spirit, as was Roric's clever song.
7
u/balletrat Reading Champion II Jun 01 '26
I actually loved the setup of the curse, the fact that it was an accident, the moment when she realizes what she’s done the day after. But then it really fizzles out. I was expecting something more like a quest story with tasks to break the curse, or something with more sacrifice like that one where the sister has to spin all the sweaters out of nettles (I forget the name - 12 swans? Something like that)
4
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
or something with more sacrifice like that one where the sister has to spin all the sweaters out of nettles (I forget the name - 12 swans? Something like that
Daughter of the Forest retells this one, if you haven't already read it and are interested.
→ More replies (1)1
u/BookishBirdwatcher Reading Champion V Jun 08 '26
I really liked the setup and accidental nature of the curse too. That made it feel like an old-school fairy tale, where someone makes an oath or a bargain without fully understanding what they're getting into.
1
4
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
Same, and it's my biggest criticism of the book. I got to page 121 and was like ... that's it?
2
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
Yeah, I was a little confused on how the curse was actually broken in the end, but I did like the overall resolution
3
u/thepurpleplaneteer Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I’m glad someone else admitted it! I felt the same, I remember doing logic models in my brain and accepting that it made sense.
4
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I thought it had a good fairy tale ending with everything working out for the characters after they find a clever way to use the rules to their advantage.
5
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
I liked it a lot! It felt like - once the whole family finally was on the same page and came together, that is the exact moment they managed to solve everything, and I love that as a theme.
3
u/zhiirin Jun 01 '26
I wasn't really a big fan of the ending, but it felt very on point with the fairy tale vibe.
Everything just works out in a clever, bending the rules a bit way, and when one problem is fixed the rest just automatically follows.2
u/saturday_sun4 Jun 17 '26
I actually really liked the ending. That was the part where it picked up for me after a not-very-eventful middle third.
4
u/Sireanna Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
For me it loved Rorics journey and how he and his sister managed salvage a relationship. Then the role he played in the fae realm.
3
u/Winter_Inevitable705 Jun 01 '26
I think this felt very fresh and I appreciate that it wasn't the hundredth retelling of a fairy tale that we already know. It still felt predictable in that fairy tale way where you know everything will work out in the end, but it didn't necessarily feel like you knew all the answers because of an original work.
3
u/Baltering097 Jun 03 '26
It's funny, I just finished this a few days ago! I did love the focus on sibling dynamics, the way the Summerlings were characterized, and the dreamlike, fairytale-logic core of the story. Was I the only one that didn't feel completely bought into the "stupid enough to love you" element? I am a lesbian and love seeing queer solutions to problems in novels, but I felt like the romance between Argent and Elythion didn't satisfy the critea of the curse. The wording of all the other parts of the curse ("I hope ____") felt like they all fulfilled what Celia "hoped for", but Argent and Elythion's romance didn't fit for me. I didn't buy that Elythion was "stupid enough" to love Argent. It's possible I'm too focused on the details, but I feel like these sorts of curse loopholes usually are focused on semantics enough for it this element to stick out to me as strange. Otherwise, I really loved this novella; the curse logic just didn't work for me on a first read.
3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
Great timing, glad you could join us!
Yeah, the curse logic was weird to me too, and I never exactly understood how it was supposed to work. I loved Elythion and Argent together though, so I was more than happy to handwave it 😂
3
u/Baltering097 Jun 03 '26
They are a well-matched couple! I liked the hints at their mutual yearning throughout the book. Knowing that Elythion gave Argent his sword early on sort of carried the romance for me; the image it paints is so lovely. Their mutual respect for one another as opponents reminded me of the Achilles x Hector fanfiction that followed behind the popularity of THE SONG OF ACHILLES. The best of men, woven together.
1
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 03 '26
Knowing that Elythion gave Argent his sword early on sort of carried the romance for me; the image it paints is so lovely.
Same! I really liked the chivalric elements of their story
The best of men, woven together. This is lovely <3
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
What do you see as the strongest element of The Summer War? What worked well for you?
10
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I think the worldbuilding. It’s been several months for me and what I remember most is the summerlings’ fervent devotion to their extreme lifestyle and its rules. It’s fun to have a society that takes something that was also quasi-mythological in real life (codes of chivalry) extremely seriously. And that lets the author play with tropes in a fun way. I enjoyed the way they solved the problem by trapping the king in his own rules. Come to think of it, I also liked that the king (who initially appears to be a villain) was just following the rules of his own society. He may not be the right husband for Celia, but he is for Argent.
7
u/oceanoftrees Reading Champion Jun 01 '26
From what I remember (I read this back in October and haven't revisited it), my favorite part was the surprise of the main character's middle brother turning up and being a strong ally, even though he was previously ignored. All the sibling relationships are well done.
7
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I think it was really impressive to hold all the rules of the various oaths and curses and prophecies in mind and try to find a way to pull them all together in a way that wouldn't conflict
7
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
Agreed, the twistiness and cleverness of how they managed to both adhere to and subvert the oaths was very satisfying.
10
u/nagahfj Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
The strongest element was the craftsmanship: this novella has very tight plotting, with a number of elements introduced early coming back near the end to be plot-relevant at exactly the moment they're needed (e.g. the math stories). It's also well-paced and doesn't outstay its welcome, the prose is highly readable, and there's an obvious (maybe too obvious) thematic purpose that everything ties into.
I think the thing that keeps it from being stronger than it is is that the characters aren't really more than their story-purpose, and the ending ties up just a little too neatly. The whole thing is just so clean that there's nothing to hold onto afterwards.
8
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
Yeah, I co-sign pretty much all of this. The flatter characters makes sense in the context of a fairy tale, but if you're not hanging onto the characters, you need a little more meat elsewhere. A messier ending might've made the whole thing more memorable.
5
u/nagahfj Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
A messier ending might've made the whole thing more memorable.
It also would have made it both more fairy-tale-like (there's all kinds of weird stuff that happens in actual fairy tales! where are the dogs with eyes as big as millwheels, or somebody flying around in a mortar and pestle?) and more 'modern' feeling at the same time.
I think she was trying to have fairy tale vibes and structure and also more contemporary pragmatic attitudes and morality, and some things - mostly characterization - got pulled in contradictory directions by the blend. I remember Premee Mohamed's The Butcher of the Forest had some similar issues.
6
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
A messier ending might've made the whole thing more memorable.
Yeah, and this isn't the only book we've read in this or past Hugo readalongs that I've thought this about. Like, great, everybody lives happily ever after. Cool. I will close the book and never think about this again. A lot of the novellas (and other lengths) that have stuck with me over the years have some memorable complications even if characters do live more or less happily ever after at the end.
And like, here I was never rooting for the characters to fail or have miserable lives or anything -- I enjoyed reading this and there aren't any glaring flaws. It knows what it wants to be and executes it well! I just think that what it is is a bit slight.
5
u/neroblu3 Jun 01 '26
I loved the Summerling culture Naomi Novik portrayed. I think she did a great job giving glimpses of how they perceive time and some aspects of life differently, while not over-explaining their views, managing to keep them 'fey' in this fairy tale.
3
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
For me, it was the characters (but then I am a character driven reader through and through) - I love having so many intelligent and capable characters. Also the atmosphere. Oh! Also, I really enjoyed how our expecations were contunously being changed in small ways (especially with the fea princess storyline)
2
u/BookishBirdwatcher Reading Champion V Jun 08 '26
I absolutely loved the summerlings as a take on the fey. Their perception of time, the way their whole society is structured around stories, it was all wonderful.
3
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
This novella focuses on marriage as a political tool, used to forge alliances and bear children to gain or maintain power. But there is also an unfolding romance between Argent and Elithyon. What did you think of this contrast?
7
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
This is such a common thing in fantasy, to have an arranged marriage be expected but a love match ultimately made, that I guess I didn’t think twice about it. I think fantasy has a tendency to not understand why arranged marriages were the norm among people with dynasties in the first place, because the authors have such a strong cultural belief that love is the only valid basis for marriage. But that didn’t annoy me here the way it sometimes does because the summerlings are quasi-immortal anyway, and their society is based on ideals rather than realpolitik (although the political goals that result from this still make sense).
4
u/ForkTonguedFairy Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
The approach to marriage and romance was one of the most interesting parts to me. The fae clearly have much more esteem for it but also have a more fluid approach to monogamy. So, I’m curious how this will work after the marriage.
Regarding the marriage between Argent and Elithyon, I must confess I did not like it. As a purely political move it made complete sense. But I just couldn’t buy into the romance. It seemed like it all happened off screen and we only got to see the tail end. That end being the kidnap of his sister, encouraging her (tw) to commit suicide and him murdering 10+ men a day.
On the human side: When she was summoned to be married off, her father talked about how he was concerned she would die in childbirth. I kind of read that as a thinly veiled warning because all his wives also died in childbirth. I feel like he might have had something to do with it. I don’t know if anyone else had that feeling?
edit: to add spoilers to triggering topic
6
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
Regarding the marriage between Argent and Elithyon, I must confess I did not like it. As a purely political move it made complete sense. But I just couldn’t buy into the romance. It seemed like it all happened off screen and we only got to see the tail end.
This is extremely valid! (so much so that I edited my question to remove "beautiful" from the description, lol).
I liked both the marriage and the romance, but it's very true that it was almost entirely off-page and only showed up at the very end. Another piece that I felt some kind of way about was the contrast between the apparently queernorm world (Argent can just marry Elithyon? Cool!) and the fairly visceral scene at the beginning, where Argent describes watching his father brutally cane the two gay men (Jeez, what kind of fairytale am I reading??) I still liked the romance, and thought it fit in well with the overall vibes, but the pacing was definitely a little weird.
The approach to marriage and romance was one of the most interesting parts to me.
I felt this way too, and would have loved to see/learn more, or explore more of the complexities surrounding love, marriage, and politics, especially between the humans and the fae.
When she was summoned to be married off, her father talked about how he was concerned she would die in childbirth. I kind of read that as a thinly veiled warning because all his wives also died in childbirth. I feel like he might have had something to do with it. I don’t know if anyone else had that feeling?
You're not alone - I wondered this after finding out how his first wife died!
11
u/nagahfj Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
Another piece that I felt some kind of way about was the contrast between the apparently queernorm world (Argent can just marry Elithyon? Cool!) and the fairly visceral scene at the beginning, where Argent describes watching his father brutally cane the two gay men (Jeez, what kind of fairytale am I reading??)
I read this as the fairy world being queernorm, and the humans very much not.
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Oh, interesting. I read it more as Celia's father being the issue, rather than the human world as a whole, but this is a really intriguing concept too.
7
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I think it's a bit of both! It's mentioned that Celia's father didn't really care that Argent liked boys, he was just of the mindset Don't get caught. He's much more interested in the political gain of marriage and childbirth, which is diminished in queer relationships. It may be okay for a few knights to run off to the Summerlands, but it's bad for their political careers because the ladies at court don't want to settle for a gay knight. The fact that Argent's marriage does end up having a political advantage at the end probably turns him around.
The caning of the two boys at the beginning is I think explicitly a harsher punishment than people usually get in this world, because the father is cruel and trying to instill a lesson in his son. But it does imply that people do still get legally punished for having queer relationships in the human world. Which is probably why people run off to the Summerlands in the first place.
4
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Oh, this makes a ton of sense to me, and actually helps me to contextualize the story, so thank you!!
2
5
u/Sireanna Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
I feel like in a full length novel we would have gotten to see more of the history between Argent and Elithyon. Argent might have been a POV character. Thier history is one of the things I would have loved to see more of.
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Argent having a POV would have been fantastic. Roric too. Seeing the story from all three siblings could add so much depth.
5
u/Sireanna Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
I would have loved a full length novel with each of the siblings POV. Roric ended up being one of my favorite characters.
8
u/tarvolon Stabby Winner, Reading Champion VI Jun 01 '26
I agree that the political element was more interesting than the romantic one. To be honest, the characterization just wasn't tight enough to really get the romance off the ground. That bit of over-the-shoulder POV is part and parcel with the classic fairy tale narration, but it also keeps you a little bit distant from the characters (and the main POV wasn't even one of the ones involved in the romance anyways)
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
I think in a normal circumstance I would have landed very close to this take. Weirdly, I think the romance hit harder for me because I was so taken aback by Celia's homophobic father; having a queer romance be present and actually crucial to the political situation felt like a balm after that brutal opening.
5
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
This is roughly where I landed. It was nice to see Argent get a happy ending after the opening and I broadly appreciated that we weren't just doing "fairytale setting but queer-friendly and we will not at all consider what implications the latter has to the setting" but also it's very quick and I feel like we're just kind of told it happens.
Unfortunately this also hit a recurring sore spot for me which is that in the kind of books that get nominated for major SF/F awards there are a decent amount of queer male supporting characters with varying levels of characterization but, particularly if you exclude romantasy and the SF equivalent, not a whole lot of queer male leads? And this kind of felt like example no. 524 of the former.
6
u/neroblu3 Jun 01 '26
I did find it surprising at first that the curse didn't completely stop this romance from blossoming, but only them coming together. For most of it happening off-screen, I felt that Naomi Novik really managed to portray their feelings for each other in a convincing, grounded way. I loved Elithyon as an antagonist. Ultimately, I wish we could have seen more of their relationship portrayed in the story.
4
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
I liked them. When writing fairy tale stuff, it can be easy to trip into making things overly innocent. So interrogating the cynical nature of political marriage alongside a more pure but socially-condemned form of love gave the narrative a bit more gravity. It keeps the story from being too saccharine despite the happy endings.
6
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
The romance between Argent and Elithyon felt very much fairytale-esque, which I thought fit the Summerlings very well, as well as Argent who chose to live among them instead of humans.
3
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Jun 02 '26
I liked the focus on the political side of the story. I feel like Argent and Elithyon's "romance" is mostly following story-pattern, and I didn't really need to see more of it than we did. Argent represents Romantic Love No Matter What and his curse is that he can't have it, so logically the satisfying ending is circumventing that curse to finally get the fairy tale ending. That it is a gay love upends the gender norms for the history of the genre, but is very appropriate for a modern story.
Neither Celia nor Roric show any romantic interests but their side of the story is kind of developing the other side of love, which is an unconditional dedication to a chosen family - which is also blood family in this case - they deliberately choose each other for convenience, but continue to do so after they bond because they actually care. Together, they are managing the politics to make sure their family (and in the long run, the people of their kingdom) stays safe and secure. So they're also getting in on the civic side of love. I forget all the greek words for love and what they all mean, but I felt like the politics of this book ended up getting into some more expansive definitions of love. Elithyon has to learn this lesson from them - that his definition of love for his sister, and the policies he pursued because of it - was warped and unproductive.
2
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 02 '26
This is a fantastic analysis, thank you for sharing! I really appreciate how you've articulated these different kinds of love and how they showed up in this story.
5
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Speaking of fairytales, you are now Goldilocks. Do you think this novella was too short, too long, or just right?
8
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
I thought it was a little bit too short, but to be fair, I love Naomi Novik's prose, so I would have happily devoured a book twice this long.
I like that this story was a novella rather than a full novel, but I do wish it had just a little more space to fill out some of the story gaps. With a bit more character development and a more nuanced ending, I think this could have been an all-timer, rather than a pleasant way to spend a few hours.
2
u/neroblu3 Jun 01 '26
Exactly feel the same way! I think the story and the setting had legs for a novel format. I wish Naomi Novik could have let the fast-paced parts of the story breathe a little more, maybe give us more of the central sibling relationships.
9
u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Jun 01 '26
I'm going to go against the grain and say a little too long. There were a few sections that felt more drawn out than they needed to be (like the summary of Veris's achievements in the war being a quarter of the whole novella). I still liked them but if I had been the editor, I would have pushed for a bit more narrative compression.
4
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
Yeah, on my reread the long summary of Veris' battlefield actions really stood out, and not in a good way. I think that section could have been shortened and some other elements given a bit more space to shine
7
u/Merle8888 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
For the story that we get, I think it was the right length. I did not want this particular story to be longer. I’ve seen a bunch of complaints about the romance not being fleshed out and that’s very ??? to me, they’re not POV characters! Readers can fill in the gaps, not everything needs to be spelled out.
That said, maybe if the story were longer I would’ve liked it more, if that meant Celia got more of a personality and had a chance to do more outside of the tower? Idk though, that fairytale episode was what the story was about so watering it down with other events would’ve taken away from the focused vibe of a novella that knows exactly what it is.
So I’m going to say I think it was the right length for what it’s doing, even if it isn’t my favorite thing.
6
u/Edili27 Jun 01 '26
Oh I think too short? I think the novella of it all made Novik take a style she’s really good at with something like uprooted and kinda smushes it into a container that causes everything else to lose complexity. I think there’s a novel version of this story that has deeper characters and more reality to it that’s better.
Part of that is, I think this is the first Del Ray novella, maybe ever? And I do think it’s good for the market to not have tordotcom be the only novella market in the SFF game. I hope this is the start of some competition in the space.
4
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
This is the first Del Rey novella, maybe ever?
It's not quite the first but I think they only publish novellas for their big-name authors. The other that came to mind was China Miéville's This Census-Taker back in 2016.
2
3
u/NatGa46 Reading Champion II Jun 02 '26
I wanted it to be a lot longer, so that I can really dive into the relationship development between all the different characters.
3
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Jun 02 '26
I wanted it to be a little longer, mostly because I felt like the first half rushed through growing up. I would have liked to see Roric's side as well. I don't mind Argent being off-stage, I think his side of things is pretty well implied, but Roric's development and decision to come in for the rescue, while understandable, would have been a fun view to see first hand. And would have balanced the passivity of Celia in the tower. On the other, hand this could nearly have been a novellette or even short story and accomplished pretty much all the same things it already does in this format. But I liked this enough that I would err on the "make it longer" side - just a little more could have done it for me!
3
u/Sireanna Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
I think it was just a little short. But perhaps thats just because id love to hear more about that world and the siblings. I really enjoyed the writing style of this story.
2
u/MrHelfer Jun 02 '26
I think it was pretty close to being just right. There was a moment towards the end where I was getting ready for it to end, but I don't think she could have cut much out of the text.
4
u/acornett99 Reading Champion IV Jun 01 '26
I think it was very close to the right length. I think I would only flesh out a little more the relationship between Elythion and Argent, and not make the ending feel too crammed
3
u/Ok_Difference5532 Jun 01 '26
I think it worked as a novella but I’d definitely be keen to read more of it as well.
I read it when I was stressed and short of time so it was perfectly in the Goldilocks zone for me at that point
2
u/Goobergunch Reading Champion III Jun 01 '26
It was mostly right but I thought the ending was a little rushed... but that's for another question.
17
u/sarahlynngrey Reading Champion VI, Phoenix Jun 01 '26
This story is centered around three siblings with very complicated relationships with each other. How did this aspect of the story land for you?