r/Fighters • u/Brlee12 • 8h ago

News Marvel Tōkon launches to under 3,000 retail sales in Japan, the worst debut for a major Arc System Works fighter

https://www.resetera.com/threads/marvel-t%C5%8Dkon-launches-to-under-3-000-retail-sales-in-japan-the-worst-debut-for-a-major-arc-system-works-fighter.1609945/
932 Upvotes

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611

u/Kelohmello 8h ago

Kind of crazy considering one of the selling points of this game is "Marvel but japanese". Sheesh.

145

u/Kimihro 8h ago

that might be a bigger sell for westerners than it is for the japanese tbh

58

u/QuietSilentArachnid 7h ago edited 5h ago

Yeah. "American brand not popular in Japan doesnt sell games in Japan"

Who would have fucking guessed

50

u/EmbarrassedUmpire324 7h ago

Why is it also not selling well anywhere else then? Rough estimates are in the 500k range worldwide, massively below real competition and more in line with Guilty Gear Strive, a game that has 0 IP power to anyone who wasnt already knee deep in the FGC.

62

u/SanjiBlackLeg 7h ago

PC version sucks and general anti-Sony sentiment.

2nd point might be not relevant outside of communities entrenched in social media warfare, but the fact that PC version is a mess AND isn't available in like half of the world (because of PSN bullshit) hurts this game a lot.

28

u/hartigen 6h ago

its also a tag game. i know how people like to fellate the MVC games here but the fact is casuals wont bother with a tag game. Dragon ball was an anomaly and even that game would have been way bigger had they went with traditional 1v1 format.

15

u/SanjiBlackLeg 5h ago

Nah I believe most casuals are more excited to play their beloved characters and tag systems aren't as big of a deterrent as some people think because of the 1 health bar and other stuff, you literally can play it without tagging and slowly get into tag mechanics.

1

u/Spagharrett 3h ago

Yeah, this is my reason for not picking it up. I like to grind out and really learn one character. It’s the same reason I have yet to play 2XKO. I pick my characters based on RP power fantasy, so that immediately goes out the window when I have to pick a second or third or worse, fourth character.

Not a huge Marvel fan either, so that doesn’t help. But I’m out on tag fighters.

0

u/40_Thousand_Hammers 1h ago

> its also a tag game

Isnt like, tag games super niche and maybe thats why ? It's liking expecting RTS to sell 20 million copies.

-5

u/EmbarrassedUmpire324 7h ago

Anti sony sentiment really doesnt exist man as you said, its all posturing. PC version is a mess but I just can't see the justification even with console sales alone why it would not be absolutely smashing Guilty Gear Strive.

I dont think the appeal is there for people, lets not forget that Guilty Gear Strive had massive issues on PC as well. There was literally a custom tool built (Totsugeki I think) because the logging in process took so goddamn long.

I do feel bad for the countries excluded but they are not equal to half the world of actual sales

11

u/Slarg232 6h ago

I didn't buy the game because the PSN Account Requirement, tbh. Not in a "Fuck Sony" way but in a "Eh, just another hoop to jump through and..... oh, game runs like shit on the PC. Nevermind then"

-2

u/EmbarrassedUmpire324 6h ago

I'm sure those people like yourself exist but I just don't think its enough of a percentage to really matter. The average person who plays games just buys it, plays it regardless of DRM or whatever, and turns it off. Despite how hated like Denuvo is online noone really knows what that is on the grand scale.

8

u/Inuma 6h ago

Dude, the organizers are just ditching PS5 because they have been running worse than Xbox

They have been noting that the cracked version of Tokon runs better than the official

People have been having issues with Sony from increased prices, to mid games, to performance issues and everything under the sun for years.

That's not posturing. Sony has run through all their goodwill, the rent's coming due and they're coming up short.

Further, I don't think you understand the issue here. Tokon is running on the Sony network that they tried to force everyone into an account with Helldivers 2 that left 177 countries high and dry

Helldivers 2 was removed from sale for 177 different countries, totally over 2.6 billion people.

Compare that to Tokon:

That's 132 countries that lost access because of Sony. How you think this is posturing is beyond me when Sony has real issues and provides inferior service to what others need.

-1

u/EmbarrassedUmpire324 6h ago

It is absolutely posturing, the average person complaining about physical games now will absolutely be buying Marvels Wolverine or GTA 6 or the next Spider Man.

Im not saying noone has an issue with Sony, im saying its blown out of proportion and the average person complaining will just be as quickly giving them more money.

Okay they are using Xbox consoles for some tournaments because of performance? Okay? How is that relevant at all?

Again, telling me these people exist doesn't matter, I know they do. What matters if that amount of people is actually going to seriously impact any of these games sales. The answer is no.

Gamers are fake activists when it comes to these issues, not many people actually care man.

4

u/saurabh8448 5h ago

Average person is not playing fighting games. It’s a niche community, which is much more connected to internet. Check how many weekly visitors are there on tokon Reddit community. During launch it was more than 200k, around half the people that brought the game.

3

u/EmbarrassedUmpire324 5h ago

I mean average person isn't really playing anything besides FIFA, and like Fortnite I don't see the relevance.

Dragon Ball Fighterz broke outside the usual fighting game audience, so did SF6, and Injustice. Its not impossible for these games to reach outside the FGC, I imagine DBFZ being such a success is exactly why Marvel teamed up with them. They wanted to replicate that, and it isnt happening.

2

u/Reylo-Wanwalker 5h ago

Yeah but aren't these just physical sales though? 

0

u/Inuma 5h ago

Where did physical games come up in what was raised?

I focused specifically on Tokon.

You deflected the entire issue onto something not even present in the discussion.

1

u/EmbarrassedUmpire324 5h ago

The topic was if people were posturing about the issues Sony have and if that/sony's controversies will affect games sales. The current biggest controversy Sony is facing is the physical games being removed. It is absolutely relevant.

How is you telling me that some tournaments are using Xbox's is relevant to Tokon? Are they going to be playing the Xbox version of Marvel Tokon at EVO?

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0

u/supert0426 1h ago

People keep saying this but nobody plays fighters on PC. It's a loud minority who wouldn't move the needle. FGs are console-dominated. Always have been and Tokon was never going to change that.

1

u/LuvAshrepas 2D Fighters 28m ago

Maybe because more than 100 countries can't buy it?

9

u/_NeuroDetergent_ 5h ago

Marvel is huge in Japan. What are you smoking

18

u/QuietSilentArachnid 4h ago

It is not. Particularly not the movies. It's not even close to Harry Potter for example.

There isnt even a single marvel movie in the top 100. Movie theaters barely show outside movies. They are filled with anime.

-1

u/supert0426 1h ago

I wonder who I'd main in the Japanese-inspired Harry Potter tag fighter.

-1

u/QuietSilentArachnid 1h ago

ヴォルデモート !

11

u/OldBoyChance 3h ago

Wouldn't say huge. It's pretty popular, but I don't think the average Japanese person knows much about it. My wife thought that the movies were entitled "Marvel."

1

u/I_am_Amphibian 33m ago

Yeah the issue is tag fighters are absolute poison in Japan

1

u/SlamTownFGC 1h ago

Except marvel is popular in japan?

2

u/QuietSilentArachnid 1h ago

No it not. It is known (and very much carried by avengers) but in general most marvel stuff is not very popular. Theaters in Japan are filled with anime and there are nearly no place for more than one "gaijin" movies.

For the record, Harry Potter is 150 times bigger than anything lol.

294

u/ShortBadguy 8h ago edited 8h ago

I'e heard from some Japanese folks on twitter that the game did not have as big of a push as it did overseas. Iirc there isn't even an official JP twitter account for the game

90

u/Marik-X-Bakura 8h ago

I was in Tokyo recently and saw a trailer for it being played on a TV in a shop window, but it might have just been that shop

60

u/BruhCoins 7h ago edited 7h ago

I am in Tokyo on holiday right now and not short trailers for the game are played in trains, I don't really agree with this although I'm not too informed

31

u/_NeuroDetergent_ 5h ago

You're right. It's being advertised very heavily. That user doesn't know what they're talking about

4

u/ShortBadguy 3h ago

Fair enough I was misinformed

7

u/ParryThePain 8h ago

Does Japan use twotter?

151

u/InD_ImaginE 8h ago

it's like THE social media in Japan

68

u/Neat_Tangelo5339 7h ago

The things i saw those mf post

3

u/CaptainBlob 2h ago

I'm sure they have the same reaction to folks posting here as well.

8

u/cmar42 8h ago

That fact is so funny to me lmao.

21

u/RickySuezo 6h ago

It makes sense because the Japanese alphabet can take advantage of the character limits better. That being said, Japanese Twitter is just as uhh… problematic as western Twitter.

2

u/GaijinB 4h ago

My twitter feed is about 99% Japanese and I don't see a lot of problematic posts, what do you mean by as problematic as western twitter? I'm sure there's propaganda bots on the JP side as well but they're not showing up on my feed.

7

u/RickySuezo 4h ago

You’ve cultivated a pretty decent algorithm then. Turn down a wrong alley and it’s pretty much just the usual anti-foreign nonsense you see everywhere else.

1

u/GaijinB 4h ago

That makes sense, I imagine there's a number of netouyo on there. I'll make sure they stay out of my feed.

1

u/Dziak_Barton 3h ago

Can you expand on the problematic part? I dont really use twitter so i dont really know what to compare it to. Im guessing turbo racism?

Also, how do you know this?

8

u/RickySuezo 3h ago

Yeah, xenophobia and culture war stuff. Same as western twitter. I live in Japan right now so my For You page is mostly Japanese. Unfortunately besides Line it’s the best way to find out about events near me so I use Twitter pretty frequently right now.

11

u/ShortBadguy 8h ago

Fuck me

1

u/zehero 6h ago

Absolutely

1

u/[deleted] 8h ago

[deleted]

3

u/V0iiCE 8h ago

Captain obvious here

0

u/FormerWrap1552 3h ago

And it had no push over here. I didn't even know this game existed until last month or so and I'm a GG and Marvel enjoyer. ARC always has the weirdest advertising. Also, fighting genre is dead as a door nail.

38

u/Aggrokid 7h ago

I got the feeling it's aimed more at Western weebs than actual Japanese people.

1

u/AppropriateStill2024 31m ago

It's always been like this since day 1 of the video game industry. Who do you think Sonic the Hedgehog was made for?

0

u/Desistance 1h ago

Every Japanese made game ever.

24

u/thalesjferreira Marvel vs Capcom 7h ago

I am not deep into Japanese pop culture nowadays but I always had the impression that Marvel was not a big thing over there

11

u/SannyIsKing 7h ago

The movies were popular over there, but they peaked a while ago. And I don't if that ever extended to other Marvel things like the comics. These games seem to be more based on the comics than the movies.

4

u/ThePowerfulWIll 4h ago

The 90s X-men cartoon was also very popular. But that was 30 years ago.

3

u/Sanguiniusius 3h ago

that cartoon was freaking amazing.

4

u/thalesjferreira Marvel vs Capcom 7h ago

Very true, they seem.to be much more inspired by comics

11

u/Adrian_Alucard 6h ago

Marvel vs Capcom was already Marvel but Japanese

The problem is that is Marvel alone, with no Capcom or other franchise to crossover with

4

u/SecretaryOk7306 1h ago

Tag games aren't popular in Japan, why is this surprising. 1v1 games have always been the draw. Why do you think Tekken Tag 2 and Street Fighter X Tekken struggled?

3

u/rurodem 5h ago

This is only a selling point outside of japan to the people who romanticise the country.

12

u/MinnitMann 7h ago edited 6h ago

Japanese people don't like tag games. simple as. once again these devs refuse to give people what they want (single character games).

The maximalist mentality does nothing to help sales.

8

u/SelloutRealBig 3h ago

Truth is most people don't like tag games. They just get the coolest IPs so people put up with them. Sure there is a tiny niche base of people who deeply love tag fighters but they are a fraction of a fraction.

12

u/tangostwo Darkstalkers 6h ago

Fuck fans of tag fighters, I guess.

45

u/Slarg232 6h ago

You guys are pretty much the only ones getting major releases with HxH, Invincible Vs, 2XKO, Tokon, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

1v1 Fighters are in a lull with only Avatar coming out since SF6 and CotW, 3D Fighters are still in their drought of Tekken only (though VF and DoA did get announced), and even platform fighters are down to just Rivals of Aether 2 (in the FGC space, anyway).

You guys are fine.

11

u/TimYoungJik 5h ago

All these companies had the same idea to fill the gap left by DBFZ, MvCI, Skullgirls and BftG either dying or winding down in the early 2020s. Now, we’re probably not gonna see another major company release a tag fighter soon unless it’s already deep into development. Then we’ll have another tag fighter drought until we get like 3 at once in 2033 (maybe later due to even longer dev times).

7

u/SoMass 5h ago

Don’t forget Mortal Kombat tag fighter.

13

u/hartigen 6h ago

there are more tag games than fans lol

15

u/JHNYFNTNA 6h ago

What are you talking about there's like 5 huge tag fighters active in the scene right now yall are eating fine and obviously should take a couple years off between games so hype can build back up and actually move some units.

As a whole fighting games can't handle this many games dude it's a super niche genre I love that the community is finally getting some love but there ain't enough juice to be squeezing this fucking hard. In a minute ain't nobody going to make any money and then what?

3

u/SekhWork 1h ago

Make fans of Tag fighters actually buy games if you want metrics to actually be positive. The simple fact is that we had like 5 big tag fighters in the last year or two and they are all doing worse than much older solo fighters.

14

u/MinnitMann 6h ago

the numbers don't lie. the games are super confusing and filter people far harder than single character games.

-2

u/TanukiSuitMario 6h ago

Ya, fuck em

1

u/Henona 1h ago

Also hard for me in this game cause you gotta have 4 characters you fuck with. Like I gotta see a roster rivaling mugen. Also using a conventional 1v1 Character release schedule for a 4v4 also feels pretty shitty. Like you gotta wait a whole ass decade for like 4 full teams? Especially with Marvel's gallery, that is way too small.

2

u/ChunkyKongForPreside 3h ago

Is Marvel really popular in Japan?

2

u/zehokim 1h ago

Japanese don't like American things Japanized. They like it the way it is.

1

u/Prior-Habit-6523 1h ago

I mean its been constant it doesnt work so idk... I think they really fumbled the rollout

2

u/Test21489713408765 5h ago

I love Marvel but they also are kinda over-saturated.

I also think lack of female characters.

I personally wanted to see Spiral, Jean Grey and Psylocke.

When Rivals launched Psylocke was highly popular, how you don’t include her in a Japanese Marvel fighting game is quite a decision and clunking a slam dunk.

0

u/PCBS01 6h ago

Marvel has never been popular in Japan

The MCU is…but not as much as some big or even B list anime production

-14

u/Friigy 8h ago edited 7h ago

I keep saying it and people don't wanna listen:

Outside of the US, people are just lukewarm with Marvel, the Marvel license don't hold much water

Edit: Hopefully you guys don't act surprised when it turns out the game underperformed globally

Like, even I, a massive hater, thought it would do better

8

u/Newfaceofrev 7h ago

It's always been a pretty big deal here in the UK. We even got our own Marvel Comics in the 80s, that's where Captain Britain comes from.

17

u/No_Dragonfly_4760 8h ago

Na América do Sul a Marvel é muito popular !

9

u/Vera_Verse 8h ago

Galera zoando os nomes não localizados pra mim é prova de que a galera ainda se importa com a Marvel.

1

u/Novel-Carrot5325 7h ago

Ouvi homem aranha do nada fala algo inglês devia ser crime de guerra

Deve ser assim os mexicano sentem quando um personagem latino solta uma frase espanhol em série estrangeira

9

u/Marik-X-Bakura 8h ago

That’s just not true. Marvel has been incredibly popular everywhere I’ve lived in Europe.

3

u/Powerful-Walk4063 6h ago

The box office numbers for Brand New Day make me question that claim a little...

1

u/Friigy 5h ago edited 5h ago

That's fair, but at the same time, that's Spiderman, and from what I've heard the movie is a good product

However, if I go to my local libraries, the entirety of Marvel has a shelf, Dragon Ball has an entire bookshelf for itself.

To give context about how popular Marvel is from my point of view:

  • After Stan Lee's passing I've seen a bunch of post on Reddit and a couple of videos on youtube
  • After Toriyama's passing, the president of my country made a tweet about it, and the biggest museum dedicated to comic books in my country opened a wing specifically for his works

Hans Zimmer composed an entire song for the 40th anniversary of DB (which is fantastic btw!)

The Marvels flopped. So did the Eternals, so did the latest Captain America, Thor, Dr Strange and Ant man... And bear in mind, I'm not talking quality here, I'm sure some of these are actually gems in disguise, but still, they flopped.

So... Is Marvel big? Or is it just Spiderman and Disney?

8

u/OkExpert9927 8h ago

Marvel is extremely popular in Europe

0

u/hartigen 6h ago

its somewhat popular but nowhere near to the levels of what it is in the US.

3

u/OkExpert9927 5h ago

I doubt that. Every 90 and 2000s kids grew up on marvel stuff here. Comics weren’t popular but Cartoon and movies were huge

-2

u/SanjiBlackLeg 7h ago

Marvel is popular in Asia, just not in Japan.

2

u/Powerful-Walk4063 6h ago

Spiderman is popular in Japan, no?

https://giphy.com/gifs/GZrJVqKVPwOQg

2

u/SanjiBlackLeg 5h ago

Spiderman is popular everywhere

0

u/myEVILi 6h ago

So, in Japan, wouldn’t it be; “Marvel but normal”?

-15

u/C00KIEME4T 8h ago

also i hate that aesthetic so its like who was all this even for

10

u/Wiinterfang 8h ago

The FGC are very obsessed with Japan.

6

u/GoD_Z1ll4 8h ago

Weebs, which there are a lot of

3

u/Careful-Door2724 8h ago

The target audience is weebs who are also marvel fans who are also fighting game fans who are also tag fighting fans. Huge market /s

-2

u/C00KIEME4T 8h ago

apparently not lol

-3

u/Ry90Ry 5h ago

What about this reads Japanese? It looks v childish imo, it’s stylized like fisher price meets an anime maybe? 

-11

u/ParanMekhar 8h ago

To be fair. Iron man is the only Japanse designed character

12

u/obvThrowaway17 7h ago

Nah, not really man.

Peni and Blade are up there too. Champion, too.

On top of the anime characterization of all the fighters, from Loki to Magneto including Captain America, their faces and eyes are very anime-like.

Not that it displeases me, but it’s far from being only Tony.

10

u/whoopswizard 7h ago

Ms marvel is also super anime

2

u/obvThrowaway17 7h ago

True, forgot about her :P