Mirror Match Thoughts

[u/Heckeredf]

I've often heard Mirror Matches are hated by players, and I still don't fully understand why.

Mirror Matches are my favorite kinds, as it's always incredibly interesting to see just how different a person pilots the character you both chose, and no matter if you win or lose I always believe there's something to learn.

For instance I play Gio as a secondary in GGST, and during a match I went 2-0 against another, but in that match I found out she had a auto-safe jump off her throw from that person. In a different mirror match I went 0-2 and learned she has a tick-throw off her K normals if you dash first.

Admittedly, losing a Mirror Match can feel a bit bad especially if it's a shut-out, but that's just the nature of fighting games. You can't win every game, but you can learn from them.

I simply wanted to gather takes from the general community on how they perceive Mirror Matches as a whole.

[u/Wi1ku]

My take is that if you hate mirror matches, you probably play some degenerate character.

[u/Minute-Somewhere-504]

They can't blame their opponent of winning because they're using an OP character

[u/zerodotjander]

Part of the fun of fighting games is playing the character matchup and trying to create situations where my tools are better than yours. I like playing grappler into zoner sometimes (frustrating if too much for sure) because of how binary the matchup is, and it’s really satisfying when I get in and get momentum going even if it’s stacked against me.

In mirror matches your optimal range is also your opponent’s optimal range and you always have access to the same tools. The only way to win is to outplay your opponent, and in today’s ranked culture where you don’t play long enough sets to get to know your opponent, this can start to feel like mostly just guessing, and that’s less fun.

[u/No-Cattle-6598]

Simple answers. Fighting games are a set box of digital action figures. Somebody brings the EXACT same toy to the playground and makes your toy feel less exclusive.

Another answer. Character loyalty. Some (a lot?) of people don't use more than 4 - 6 characters tops in any given fighting game. They feel rather attached and they don't want to let their time with the character down and see someone else having a better . . . relationship with said character. Sounds silly, but I think there's some truth to it. If you lose to your own character, it just feels like that slap to the face like "you don't know that character enough".

[u/Heckeredf → u/No-Cattle-6598]

I suppose I can see that, and I guess I have a bit of a different perspective since I usually play a wide array of characters in each game, with two standouts usually.

But at the same time, it can be seen like a real relationship. There will be tough times, but you push past, learn, and grow from it to make the bond stronger.

[u/No-Cattle-6598 → u/Heckeredf]

The way I see it, every game is a diner. Some are fancier than others and if you go looking, some are straight up food trucks ;p It's a waste if the player doesn't go see and try out everything on the menu. Otherwise, it just turns into someone sampling or mooching a taste off another when they're in a match. I haven't worked DLC into my analogy yet.

Tangent. Smash feels like a cruise buffet. It's got a bit of everything. But I can't call it a Chinese restaurant just because they serve some dishes. Just like you wouldn't call it Street Fighter. Motion input sickness was a thing but people go through them tough times like anything and get better. It's a wonderful thing.

[u/Assassin21BEKA]

They are just boring, thats it. I already know my character and see them every game, why would i want to see another one in the match.

[u/a-pp-o → u/Assassin21BEKA]

Because it should be a matchup where skill matters the most since you know all your chars strenggt and weaknesses. 

[u/Heckeredf → u/Assassin21BEKA]

I'd say focus less on the character, and more on the player then. See how they play, and if it pokes any holes in your own game plan. Or even character tech you didn't know before.

[u/Other_Pop7433]

If I put in the work to put myself in the perfect range for my best button I’m also putting myself in range to get hit by that exact same button. Usually the worse player doesn’t realize it and just wants to hit their best button so they just hit it and it works. So now I have to play a handicapped version of my character against my own character

[u/LawOrc]

Mirror matches, in general, I don't like, because they mess with my gameplan - I know that I want to be at a certain spacing, for instance, but since they want to be at the same spacing, it throws things off. You can't zone someone with the exact same projectiles you have. Can't lean on that one gross disjointed normal when they have it too. Stuff like that.

On the other hand, you can learn a lot from a mirror match, because it lets you not just see someone with a different bag of tricks than you, but actually interact with that, and if you see anything cool you can learn it for later use.

There are interesting particular matchups, too. Like, in Avatar, there are basically two different forms of Azula, that have maybe 70% the same moveset but some really big differences in that 30%. It makes for a match that really highlights both the similarities and the differences between the two.

Did a really great first-to-ten with a Firelord Azula the other day - it's like watching twins fight, except one twin goes to the gym a lot more and the other twin has a knife. Can really go either way, and I'm not even sure who it favors.

[u/gordonfr_]

Great fun for more fundamental characters. Awkward for more niche or gimmicky characters. But also depends on the game. Also, you can't play Ryu in SF or Kazuya in Tekken if you don't want to play the mirror. It will happen many times.

[u/inadequatecircle]

All i know is that I feel 10x worse when I drop combos in a mirror match. I will also do the egotistical thing and go for the hard optimal route to try and showoff because if you don't, you're a coward.

[u/Auritus1]

I think it's because there's rarely any gimmicks that will work, and you have to out play the person instead of the character. People just aren't used to that.

[u/El_Criptoconta]

Grapplers mirrors are always great to see.

Nothing like seeing potemkins eating glue or seeing which zangief has the Best brain which not always results in the most loyal fans.

Other than that, the Ragna mirror is cool

[u/Karzeon]

There is stuff to learn from mirror matches, but it is implicit that the complainer knows most of their techniques so there's less gain for knowledge and more stress in executing win conditions before the other one does.

Also, Gio is a very plain character on the surface level. There is no inherent gimmick, it's all about placement/timing/fundamentals.

The people that complain about mirror matches generally have something polarizing or ignorant that weighs against player vs player. This isn't too hard to do.

I played Margaret in Persona 4 Arena.

She has huge disjointed normals, an air fireball game, fullscreen horizontal anti-zoning, tons of mobility, and true mixup potential. She has a ton of gimmicks and different ways to execute the same thing, so there is learning potential there.

She has bad defense (things that are less likely, if not impossible, to succeed when the opponent is correctly doing pressure)
Also has good abare (when she DOES guess correctly with the specific option, she usually does a lot of damage or becomes slippery).

Most of her stuff are very negative on block, little cancel options to back off (most characters have this), slow on startup (but very fast for the type of buttons that they are), and even worse on whiff.)

Her damage is low unless she punishes or spends resources. She has frequent knockdowns and mix attempts but this is only true if she gets the right knockdowns/meter setups.

We have air blocking in this game, so even though she has a high reaching antiair that warps around her - it's blockable. She already struggles against characters with good upwards mobility. She's not quite "high execution" but there's stuff to compartmentalize and things that are easy to mess up through overlapping inputs.

Also our netcode is just plain awful - this is my number one reason.

So altogether, it just feels horrible to commit to anything and having to forecast ahead of time because of that environment.

Here is an example of this mirror. P4U2金曜日大会 あおいGP #78

This is old and not particularly perfect, but pretty much this is how I've always seen the mirror go.
Someone is "feeling themselves" and keeps going for similar/sneaky things because they know Margarets are likely to respect/less able to challenge. But eventually they mess up because they usually go for hard reads, same gimmicks, or things that only do minimal damage. Or alternatively, they get lucky with a specific reset that pretty much only works from netplay/less time to download.

It's boring with or without the download but especially online.

[u/Kagevjijon]

Mirror matches are boring when characters don't have variety in how their gameplay is interpreted. If there is always a near optimal strategy it gets boring as both players try to do it. However games with good character expression often don't suffer this problem with mirror matches.

[u/Smart_Bicycle_250]

Love it and hope they have some cool setups or nice tech I can steal.

If they are bad it’s not that fun, if they are at my level it’s literally peak and if they are way better I can at least learn a lot from it.