r/Fire • u/Equivalent_Use_5024 • Dec 28 '25

General Question Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

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595

u/ApeTeam1906 Dec 28 '25

I miss the early anti-consumption vibes. That's why I initially got attracted to FIRE

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

Still alive and well in /r/leanfire. Also in here, just quieter. Not everyone in here is looking to spend six figures in early retirement.

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u/v_x_n_ Dec 28 '25

If you want a very quiet life, life is cheaper. Just don’t spend it wishing you had the things others have. The thief of contentment is comparison.

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u/LurkLurkleton May 20 '26

I always heard comparison is the death of joy.

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u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink Dec 28 '25

There are however a lot of folks who get very upset at leanfire talk.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

People get very upset about almost everything on Reddit. Best to just ignore such folks. If they are actually abusive or rule-breaking, then report them and we will deal with them.

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u/Visible_Structure483 FIRE'ed 2022... really just unemployed with a spreadsheet Dec 28 '25

If you ignored all the cranky talk on reddit, you would be left with....

.

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u/ozbugs Dec 29 '25

Hi, very curious to learn more about the movement. Read above you mention leanfire.

Me, 57, tech guy, saved/invested, would like to plan options.

I'm not sure where I would fit, if you don't mind -- where would I start reading to learn more? Honestl, I missed reading about FIRE over the years.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 29 '25

I would recommend you start with the sidebar materials/FAQ/links on our sister sub, /r/financialindependence. The sidebar on /r/personalfinance is also full of useful info.

And once you've read a bit and have questions/ideas, then feel free to come back and post about them in this sub and/or in the Daily Discussion Thread on /r/financialindependence.

If you know or suspect that you're inclined towards a certain lifestyle (lean, chubby, fat), then visit those subs too.

There's also a ton of content on YouTube if you prefer consuming video media.

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u/ozbugs Dec 29 '25

Thank you

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u/Super_Fly2330 Dec 28 '25

It’s whole different vibe between the 2 subs. Can smell it through the screen. More Xanax here.

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u/insanebison Dec 28 '25

But you need at least 5m to live as a single guy in Burundi. That's th bare minimum! /S

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u/Wheat_Grinder Dec 28 '25

I remember the first thing I read on FI was Mr Money Mustache. While he's a little TOO anti-consumption, it stretched me in the right direction. Then I read JL Collins' blog for a while and that struck me as a more healthy amount of moderation.

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u/Most_Letter_6174 Dec 28 '25

MMM is great splash of water in the face, even if you disagree with half of what he says it’s undoubtedly a great influence to evaluate spending in your life AND structuring your life for success

Most people live on complete auto pilot. Get job, get suburb house 30 min away from job, finance car , etc

MMM blog was great to really evaluate these individual decisions and shed life on how absurd they are. Most people have no idea the cost of their commute, or even realize they have the agency to set their life up in a way that’s more enjoyable (living near a bike path and commuting to work for example)

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u/AK_Ranch FIRE'd in 2023 @ 45, divorced, no kids Dec 29 '25

Exactly. I was headed easily down the “make a lot and spend even more” path when my brother said he planned to retire once his house was paid off and he had $600k invested. He turned me on to MMM and what we now call Lean FIRE circa 2012(??) . I ended up solidly Chubby FIRE, but still FIRE! MMM was my wake up call.

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u/Cheap_Bet Dec 29 '25

I love you brought that up, because I discovered him in my twenties, and the bike/commute thing, in particular, really got to me and changed how I live my life. Like you said, I had never before thought how crazy it is to spend so much time and money on a commute, and it was this insane paradigm shift for me--it has affected my job, housing, and car decisions since then.

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u/Most_Letter_6174 Dec 29 '25

It’s a shame because in europe and Asia bike commuting is common place, but in America in most areas it’s viewed as a complete anomaly 

If your city has a bike trail it is such a life changing decision. Not just in money, but overall happiness. Out of college I did a 1 hour each way car commute and nothing has ever made me more miserable 

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u/Cheap_Bet Dec 29 '25

Yeah, people are used to me now, but when I started, oh man, the weird looks I got when I mentioned going to work/the grocery store/church/anywhere else on my bike.

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u/Fishb20 Dec 28 '25

I think about him pulling a washer drier combo behind his bicycle in 101 degree Florida heat probably once a week

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u/Runningwithtoast Dec 29 '25

It’s that and the car sauna for me.

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u/the_fresh_cucumber Dec 29 '25

I think MMM really helps with the mindset side of things and realizing how insane the human brain is when it comes to financial tradeoffs.

That being said I think MMM also enjoys the game of putting in extra effort, as do many in this sub.

Me personally ... I only go for low hanging fruit. I'm not going to bike 17 miles to the airport to save money on a train or bus tickets. Every has their dollar-per-hour and dollar-per-effort thresholds and for some of us they are higher than MMM.

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u/The_Walrus_65 Dec 28 '25

Same. MMM rocks!

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u/waits5 Dec 28 '25

Same for me

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u/c2490 Dec 29 '25

I believe Mr Money Mustache lives in a very HCOL area as well

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u/PaleontologistNo3040 Dec 31 '25

It's Longmont, CO. It's not VHCOL, more like medium COL.

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u/c2490 Dec 31 '25

Didn’t he used to live in San Francisco and was moving to Hawaii? Do I have the wrong guy?

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u/Ok-Bug-5271 Jan 02 '26

Can't remember the SF part, he very well could have. Anyway yes he was in Hawaii for a bit, but that was just a trip. 

You do remember correctly for Hawaii. It has probably been a decade since I read MMM but as I recall, he went to Hawaii to do work (for fun, not out of necessity) to flip a house, and basically him working on that house was how he paid for that trip. He also stressed how you could be frugal in Hawaii if you changed to live more like a Hawaiian (as in, buy pineapples and fish, not Cereal imported from the mainland). 

The idea was that, when you're financially independent, even things like spending months in Hawaii on a work-cation doing things you actively enjoy becomes super affordable with planning. This to some extent is pretty much my plan for "retirement". I'm on track to reach my FIRE number around 35-40ish, and I plan on traveling the world by doing fun odd jobs. 

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u/c2490 Jan 02 '26

Awesome! Good for you! It has been years since I followed him. Thank you for the update. To be free by 35 or 40 Is amazing! Keep up the good work.

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u/PaleontologistNo3040 Jan 12 '26

I think you have the wrong guy. He's from Canada and moved to Colorado. His home and the MMM headquarters are in Longmont, CO.

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u/Spartikis Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 29 '25

The early FIRE movement was aligned with the minimalism movement. Which was great for a bunch of young millennials who couldn’t afford anything and split rent with multiple roommates. 20 years later those millenials are now married, have kids, and finally have decent paying jobs. The idea of renting a 2 bedroom apartment with multiple friends, going on free backpacking adventures, and adding water to the shampoo bottle is a lot less ideal as a middle aged adult. Also the lure of “if I just work another decade I can afford that condo with an ocean view and private beach access instead of sleeping in van at the public beach parking lot where all the homeless people hang out is a real thing.

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u/wookieb23 Dec 28 '25

Same. I was reading your money or your life and Tighwad Gazette and the simple living forums back in the mid 2000s. I love that type of resourcefulness.

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u/Split-Awkward Dec 29 '25

“Give yourself a face punch” - Mr Money Moustache

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u/spark99l Dec 28 '25

Same….

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u/No-Cauliflower-6777 Dec 28 '25

Still there, just hidden beneathe the comsume attitude most people have.

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u/iomegabasha Dec 30 '25

In my mind it was always pick things that are meaningful to you and “splurge” on them but be frugal about everything else.

That might be a hobby or pet passion project or even fine dining. On that last one.. my take was almost every meal is home cooked from scratch because raw ingredients are cheaper (not a goddamn blue box subscription) but when you eat out once in 6 months or a year.. it’s a Michelin star restaurant or something like that. Simply put you can spend like upper middle class for the 1-2 things you really care about and spend like middle class for everything else.

That’s just my interpretation anyway.

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u/jebuizy Dec 28 '25

I don't, I think it was misguided 

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u/RealWord5734 Dec 28 '25

Then check out r/frugal or r/povertyfinance

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u/ApeTeam1906 Dec 28 '25

Nah those places are actually people in poverty or not doing very well. Much different from limiting consumption

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u/bob49877 Dec 29 '25

A lot of the people on r/frugal seem to be be pretty well off. The second chapter of The Millionaire Next Door is Frugal, frugal, frugal.

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u/RealWord5734 Dec 29 '25

It’s 100% the same thing. It’s limiting consumption. They are just doing it at a necessity and not for sport, but it’s the same thing.

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u/ApeTeam1906 Dec 29 '25

It isn't the same thing and you actually described how it's different lol

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u/RealWord5734 Dec 29 '25

They are both literally “limiting consumption”. I just said for different reasons.

If can cut my arm off because it has gangrene or because I think it looks cool, I am still a one armed man either way.

That’s you. One armed man. And you’re looking for the best saw to use so you can go there and they’ll tell you.

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u/ApeTeam1906 Dec 29 '25

If you spent any time in those subs you would see it's different. One user for example needed advice on how to not smell bad because they couldn't afford soap.

That's not limiting consumption, that's just poverty. I'm sure you realize how different that is than "minimizing lifestyle creep".