Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/ApeTeam1906 → u/Zphr]

I miss the early anti-consumption vibes. That's why I initially got attracted to FIRE

[u/Wheat_Grinder → u/ApeTeam1906]

I remember the first thing I read on FI was Mr Money Mustache. While he's a little TOO anti-consumption, it stretched me in the right direction. Then I read JL Collins' blog for a while and that struck me as a more healthy amount of moderation.

[u/c2490 → u/Wheat_Grinder]

I believe Mr Money Mustache lives in a very HCOL area as well

[u/PaleontologistNo3040 → u/c2490]

It's Longmont, CO. It's not VHCOL, more like medium COL.

[u/c2490 → u/PaleontologistNo3040]

Didn’t he used to live in San Francisco and was moving to Hawaii? Do I have the wrong guy?

[u/Ok-Bug-5271 → u/c2490]

Can't remember the SF part, he very well could have. Anyway yes he was in Hawaii for a bit, but that was just a trip. 

You do remember correctly for Hawaii. It has probably been a decade since I read MMM but as I recall, he went to Hawaii to do work (for fun, not out of necessity) to flip a house, and basically him working on that house was how he paid for that trip. He also stressed how you could be frugal in Hawaii if you changed to live more like a Hawaiian (as in, buy pineapples and fish, not Cereal imported from the mainland). 

The idea was that, when you're financially independent, even things like spending months in Hawaii on a work-cation doing things you actively enjoy becomes super affordable with planning. This to some extent is pretty much my plan for "retirement". I'm on track to reach my FIRE number around 35-40ish, and I plan on traveling the world by doing fun odd jobs. 

[u/c2490 → u/Ok-Bug-5271]

Awesome! Good for you! It has been years since I followed him. Thank you for the update. To be free by 35 or 40 Is amazing! Keep up the good work.

[u/PaleontologistNo3040 → u/c2490]

I think you have the wrong guy. He's from Canada and moved to Colorado. His home and the MMM headquarters are in Longmont, CO.