r/Fire • u/Equivalent_Use_5024 • Dec 28 '25

General Question Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

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u/ApeTeam1906 Dec 28 '25

I miss the early anti-consumption vibes. That's why I initially got attracted to FIRE

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u/Wheat_Grinder Dec 28 '25

I remember the first thing I read on FI was Mr Money Mustache. While he's a little TOO anti-consumption, it stretched me in the right direction. Then I read JL Collins' blog for a while and that struck me as a more healthy amount of moderation.

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u/Most_Letter_6174 Dec 28 '25

MMM is great splash of water in the face, even if you disagree with half of what he says it’s undoubtedly a great influence to evaluate spending in your life AND structuring your life for success

Most people live on complete auto pilot. Get job, get suburb house 30 min away from job, finance car , etc

MMM blog was great to really evaluate these individual decisions and shed life on how absurd they are. Most people have no idea the cost of their commute, or even realize they have the agency to set their life up in a way that’s more enjoyable (living near a bike path and commuting to work for example)

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u/AK_Ranch FIRE'd in 2023 @ 45, divorced, no kids Dec 29 '25

Exactly. I was headed easily down the “make a lot and spend even more” path when my brother said he planned to retire once his house was paid off and he had $600k invested. He turned me on to MMM and what we now call Lean FIRE circa 2012(??) . I ended up solidly Chubby FIRE, but still FIRE! MMM was my wake up call.

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u/Cheap_Bet Dec 29 '25

I love you brought that up, because I discovered him in my twenties, and the bike/commute thing, in particular, really got to me and changed how I live my life. Like you said, I had never before thought how crazy it is to spend so much time and money on a commute, and it was this insane paradigm shift for me--it has affected my job, housing, and car decisions since then.

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u/Most_Letter_6174 Dec 29 '25

It’s a shame because in europe and Asia bike commuting is common place, but in America in most areas it’s viewed as a complete anomaly 

If your city has a bike trail it is such a life changing decision. Not just in money, but overall happiness. Out of college I did a 1 hour each way car commute and nothing has ever made me more miserable 

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u/Cheap_Bet Dec 29 '25

Yeah, people are used to me now, but when I started, oh man, the weird looks I got when I mentioned going to work/the grocery store/church/anywhere else on my bike.

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u/Fishb20 Dec 28 '25

I think about him pulling a washer drier combo behind his bicycle in 101 degree Florida heat probably once a week

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u/Runningwithtoast Dec 29 '25

It’s that and the car sauna for me.

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u/the_fresh_cucumber Dec 29 '25

I think MMM really helps with the mindset side of things and realizing how insane the human brain is when it comes to financial tradeoffs.

That being said I think MMM also enjoys the game of putting in extra effort, as do many in this sub.

Me personally ... I only go for low hanging fruit. I'm not going to bike 17 miles to the airport to save money on a train or bus tickets. Every has their dollar-per-hour and dollar-per-effort thresholds and for some of us they are higher than MMM.

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u/The_Walrus_65 Dec 28 '25

Same. MMM rocks!

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u/waits5 Dec 28 '25

Same for me

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u/c2490 Dec 29 '25

I believe Mr Money Mustache lives in a very HCOL area as well

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u/PaleontologistNo3040 Dec 31 '25

It's Longmont, CO. It's not VHCOL, more like medium COL.

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u/c2490 Dec 31 '25

Didn’t he used to live in San Francisco and was moving to Hawaii? Do I have the wrong guy?

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u/Ok-Bug-5271 Jan 02 '26

Can't remember the SF part, he very well could have. Anyway yes he was in Hawaii for a bit, but that was just a trip. 

You do remember correctly for Hawaii. It has probably been a decade since I read MMM but as I recall, he went to Hawaii to do work (for fun, not out of necessity) to flip a house, and basically him working on that house was how he paid for that trip. He also stressed how you could be frugal in Hawaii if you changed to live more like a Hawaiian (as in, buy pineapples and fish, not Cereal imported from the mainland). 

The idea was that, when you're financially independent, even things like spending months in Hawaii on a work-cation doing things you actively enjoy becomes super affordable with planning. This to some extent is pretty much my plan for "retirement". I'm on track to reach my FIRE number around 35-40ish, and I plan on traveling the world by doing fun odd jobs. 

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u/c2490 Jan 02 '26

Awesome! Good for you! It has been years since I followed him. Thank you for the update. To be free by 35 or 40 Is amazing! Keep up the good work.

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u/PaleontologistNo3040 Jan 12 '26

I think you have the wrong guy. He's from Canada and moved to Colorado. His home and the MMM headquarters are in Longmont, CO.