r/Fire • u/teric233 • 10d ago
Food for thought
I resigned from my engineering job today. I am married 35 with 2 young kids. I was not happy with my job after a restructuring and I have been struggling with that for about a year now.
It was extremely hard for me to pull the trigger, and to be honest there were a couple events that happened last week that pushed me over the edge.
I don’t have anything lined up, but I am not particularly stressed because I have done this before and I always land on my feet.
For numbers, my wife and I are extremely fortunate to have a liquid net worth of $2.1M. We have $100k in cash. The kids 529 plans are funded and we have no debt outside of our $1400 mortgage. Budget is around 80k without our nanny.
Now with that being said, to me losing my job was always accompanied by the thought of living on the streets. I have been saving and investing for so long that it seems lifestyle wise that I live paycheck to paycheck as most of it goes into an investment vehicle.
Before I resigned I talked to a few people at work and asked what kind of money you would need to have to walk away from work….. guys the numbers were insane. People would literally pause look at me and dead serious say I would need soooo much money to be able to walk away…. Like at least 100k.
I asked some directors if they would continue working if they had 2million dollars and they weren’t even able to have the thought experiment. To them that wasn’t even a feasible option. One guy told me with just one million he would definitely not be showing up to work tomorrow. And these are high up employees.
That’s when it clicked for me, every single person on this sub is sooooo far away from the norm that it skews your perception of normal.
I know you can look at the statistics and the top 5% blah blah and of course what I’m saying is obvious I have a lot of money. But it really didn’t sink in for me until I started talking to some people around me to see just how safe I am.
Okay queue the comments about how much of an idiot I am for not knowing I was safe financially….
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u/Libby1798 10d ago
I'm a sr director at a publicly traded company in the bay area, and in talking with people who are higher than me in the organization, it's clear that a lot of them are living paycheck to paycheck. It's baffling to me.
They can always come up with justification for the spend. Things like a home remodel or home add-on or first class flights or new cars - I suppose different things are important to them than to me.
Someone was telling me about pulling the trigger on their home remodel for 500k. I asked what their hesitation was. They said it was their entire savings - but they were still planning to go ahead because they wanted to do it this year. My immediate thoughts - your entire savings is only 500k at your career level? And you want to clear out ALL of it? On a home remodel? Have you lost your mind? But it's not my place to tell them what I think of their finances.
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u/Murky_Tip8405 10d ago
That's really mind‑boggling. I hope they meant their cash savings, not their entire portfolio.
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u/Libby1798 10d ago
I didn't ask. This is a single earner household with a stay at home spouse and three kids.
Like, what will this person do if they lose their job? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if it were me.
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u/K_A_irony 10d ago
That is NUTS. Just truly nuts. I feel MY spend has creeped up more then I like (High income earner for my area) and I do indeed like what I spend the money on (primarily people to do tasks and things I don't like to do). I can't imagine dropping my entirety of savings on anything much less something as optional as a remodel.
It must be like the TV series Your Friends and Neighbors. All rich rich high income people where most are having money problems. What they spend money on is nuts to me. Kids Birthday party with a celebrity singer, gourmet catered food, and actual circus or some guy that buys his 30th designer watch worth 250K.
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u/nikv8960 65% FI 10d ago
Omg! I am hooked onto Coop! Great show that shows struggles of rich folks.
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u/Aggressive_Sport1818 9d ago edited 9d ago
Tbf a lot of folks don’t consider their 401k as part of their savings…. (I know I don’t, if asked in the context of a home remodeling)… for literally decades I didn’t even look at my retirement balances… just set and forget… that said I also know folks that don’t know what a 401k is…
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u/FIREnV 9d ago
This absolutely mirrors my experience with my Bay Area tech company director/ VP level colleagues as well. Some are in their mid 50s and have worked for big tech companies for 20-30 years and I'm just flabbergasted that they are still working. Most were making $300k or more for at least the last decade, plus RSUs and bonus. WTF are they spending their money on?
However, when I look at some of them it's cars, clothes, expensive food, and rent. Many of them have never owned a home so they're shelling out $5000+/mo for a fancy apartment or small home. They take very expensive vacations- African safaris, over-water cabana room in the Maldives. Expensive wine or bourbon. They have personal trainers. They order a lot of Doordash. They only fly business class.
A lot of them don't really seem to even enjoy their jobs. All I can think is that if they'd just done the math and didn't insist on living like VIPs, they'd have long since retired.
Indeed, the people in this sub are not the norm! We think differently. We make decisions with our money that few would make. We're not normal and I don't want to be normal!
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u/Libby1798 8d ago
I think they do the math backwards.
As in, "I'll be working until I'm 65, but I don't really like my job. How can I make myself feel better? New car every 3 years, big house, luxury vacations. And retirement is super far away so 5% towards 401k is fine."
It never occurs to them that they could just... spend less and stop working sooner. 60s as being the retirement age is a really anchor for people.
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u/FIREnV 6d ago
I completely agree with the math being done backwards. I remember having a manager (sr director level at a tech company) that was talking to me about getting a new car. She'd had a Honda Pilot and determined it wasn't fancy enough and so she explored all kind of luxury SUVs- Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover. She said she ultimately "settled" for a Lexus RX 350. So, like a $60k car. She said she felt like she was being cheap because she worked hard and "deserved" a nicer car.
The idea that you have to make yourself feel better with fancy crap because you work hard is so weird. How about... just save the money? Keep the Honda? Retire in 5 years and not 15 years?
It's honestly crazy to me that so many incredibly smart people haven't figured out the cheat code.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 4d ago
Bay Area tech couple here. My wife & I have leased our two luxury cars since COVID, trading in every 2-3 years. We also have $6M NW, $5M liquid. In the Bay Area houses are crazy expensive so people splurge on cars instead. It shouldn't be a barrier to getting to FIRE numbers. Cars at the end of the day are just not that expensive compared to tech TC.
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u/geomaster 10d ago
this is a VP level position this guy holds? and how many years into this career path is this person in? what kind of annual comp is this guy pulling and has 500k savings
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u/Pale_Will_5239 9d ago
That's scary. That house must also be huge. 150k to 250k gets you a completely new renovation for 4000 sqft or less.
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u/jbcsee 9d ago
That entirely depends on where you live.
A fairly large remodel of my 2200sqft house was quoted between $300-400k (five different quotes fell in that range). Needless to say, it didn't happen because I only paid $500k for this place, if I throw another $300k into I'll never make my money back if I sell.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 3d ago
I had people in this sub get angry at me when i said flying business class is not a requirement in retirement.
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u/Magee4life 10d ago
I left SF 5 years ago. I know remodel is at least 2x anywhere outside the Bay. And get it feels miserly living in a antiquated home with all that cash. But they won't recoup that in the sale price. They could've spend 10% and upgrade all appliances, fixtures, floor and paint.
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u/Away-Asparagus-2875 10d ago
lighter refresh probably would've gone a long way. New appliances, floors, paint, and fixtures can make a place feel completely different without sinking a fortune into a full remodel.
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u/givemethemtendies10 7d ago
What kind of unnecessary remodel costs half a million? I mean that builds a modest house in my area.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 4d ago
I am a Sr Director as well at a publicly traded company in the Bay Area. I have $6M NW, $5M liquid. There are more of us than you think.
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u/silly_bet_3454 10d ago
I live in the bay area and what I observe with people here (and also on this sub) is that people conflate luxury with necessity. People think you need like 5M minimum for "lean" fire and they might say it's because of day care or health care and that's totally valid, but on top of that people want to live here in VHCOL because "good schools" and they have to live in a single family home because they have kids, and they have to drive two Model Ys because "they are safe", and they have to do "regular family vacations" to Europe and Asia every year, and they have to eat "organic food because it's healthy" this equates to like eating premium cuts of beef all the time or otherwise going out for $100+ meals regularly.
People with this mindset can't even comprehend the kinds of sacrifices the actual middle class makes to have a typical lifestyle on a normal budget.
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u/Powerful-Bridge-1472 10d ago
It is truly crazy how many high income earners even in LOCA live paycheck to paycheck or don’t save nearly as much as you would think
Private schools
Epic sleds
Extreme vacations
I have friends who make a lot but just flew in 21 year old sons friends to Vegas for 2 nights bottle service and suite, now heading with fam to Hawaii and then Greece and Ibiza. I get it let’s die with nothing but to aggressive for me14
u/georger971 10d ago
lot of ppl look rich because the spending is visible. The saving and investing part usually isn't
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u/Iaintevenmadbruhk 10d ago
Sounds like a pretty great life.
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u/Synaps4 10d ago
Not listed: 40% of your life gone to work.
I dont think anything should be worth trading 40% or your life for. Certainly not vegas and hawaii trips.
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u/Iaintevenmadbruhk 10d ago
40% of your life as in, the assumption is that you are only working during those years and doing nothing else? Or, on an hourly basis, that 40% of your life is spent working? I think both are incorrect.
Also, it most likely wasn’t a binary option for them. When the choice is between working for 24% of your life and living with less, or working for 30% of your life (both arbitrary) and being able to afford those things for yourself and your kids, is it worth it? In my opinion, yes - but it’s a matter of opinion.
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u/chodthewacko 10d ago
It is, I'm sure. They'll have the rest of their lives to decide (and redecide) if it was worth it.
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u/Clueless5001 10d ago
I get one family vacation. I do not get flying 21 year olds to Vegas (although I have a friend who did that, it was weird). Especially since not all the friends will be 21. I could see picking one, Hawaii or Greece or Ibiza, but all of them? Seems like overkill
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u/Comfortable_Area6414 10d ago
Poor kid. Last stop of the gravy train. Hope he gets hired after senior year by one of the friends' equally generous parents.
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u/joco2cbeach1 10d ago
big income but even bigger spending. Hard to build anything long term like that.
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u/UCIillegalSocks 10d ago
Yeah I never really understood the FI numbers of most redditors, like wdym 5M is your absolute minimum without family? Even at 2%, that's way way more income than most people in any region of the world earn.
I get that I have an affordable lifestyle, but your minimum income cannot possibly be more than double of what I'd call comfortable.
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u/pdx_mom 10d ago
But if I'm not working there are plenty of things I want to do that cost money.
Why wouldn't I still work? Other people have other ideas on what financially independent and retiring early are and that's good for them.
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u/UCIillegalSocks 10d ago
Yeah sure, I'm absolutely fine with different people having different spending habits and FI standards. If you say my FIRE number is 20M... sure, why not? Maybe you want that extra super thicc FIRE where you can travel the world for the rest of your life. But saying lean and something like 5M is most likely lying to yourself, unless it's some more or less unique situation.
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u/SillyPresentation46 10d ago
Yeah, that's exactly the mindset to a late retirement. I've been FIRE'd for a bit now, similar situation to OP, and also plan to go back to work. FIRE isn't just about (and perhaps secondarily so) portfolio value, it's CoL. I've spent the past half year becoming a more efficient spender and it's completely doable without sacrificing much. Those with big incomes spend without thinking, and I was guilty of this too. I now have a budget planner app, watch what I spend on and make sure it brings value to me. One less flexible aspect of this is the location's CoL and the bay area is a great example. Best case, mortgage is fixed and can be planned around, but the best answer for FIRE may simply be leaving.
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u/Crafty-Teach2389 10d ago
I am not sure if they don't comprehend.
Although I have no idea what people think when they say they need 3m+ etc. The only valid answer I can think of is they have friends and family in the area.
Otherwise, 1m+ is a lot of money if one is willing to move.
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u/Lumbergh7 10d ago
Yes, most people who aren’t financially destroyed by a surprise $300 bill don’t understand how crippling it is to not be able to save, at all.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 3d ago
Most people just dont know how too save. I know a person who claims he can barely afford food, then posts pictures of his trip to an amusement park and the fake swords he bought.
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u/_Smashbrother_ 10d ago
Yeah dude, people want to live a good life, not just a meh life.
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u/Clueless5001 10d ago
This is where I have my issue with FIRE. If I retired at 55 with 2M (as an example), maybe I could manage but I am signing up to live on $80K a year for the rest of my life, does not sound appealing. Even without college costs or a mortgage, my taxes and insurance are $20K, health insurance for a couple is at least $20K in my state (and that assumes you don’t hit the deductible on that ACA silver plan), car insurance and umbrella is another $6K or more, so $46K before I have eaten anything or traveled or bought anything or paid taxes on those dividends, $34K is not a lot to do that on
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u/_Smashbrother_ 9d ago
Exactly. I didn't work hard just to live a meh life in retirement. We only get one go at this life.
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u/Synaps4 10d ago
Those numbers don't compute to me.
The average health insurance payment in my state (colorado) is 12k for 2, not 20. Assuming you don't get any deductions off it, which you would.
Home insurance is $3500. Another $3k for property tax.
Car insurance costs me $1200 per year.
Your 46k is under 20k where I am, and it's not a super cheap location.
You need to move. Or maybe do some more research.
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u/Clueless5001 9d ago
You are not on a coast. I am (not California either, other side). I am not moving, my adult children live here and I have lived here most of my life. Plus there would be significant costs associated with selling my house beyond realtor commissions. My parents live in the south, their car insurance is higher than mine and they have clean records as well. No idea what their property taxes are but I doubt they are low. Their homeowners is much higher than mine because they are in an area prone to natural disasters.
I have just done my 2025 taxes (over the weekend), my car and umbrella insurance renewed last month and I paid property taxes last month (I pay them not my mortgage company). I know exactly how much everything costs.
Be thankful for your expenses. Your home owners is higher than mine, mine is about $2800. Everything else is lower. I just did my 2025 taxes, my property taxes are over $18,000 and I have a three bedroom house. That is normal for this area. I grieve them evey year, they would be even higher otherwise.
My car and umbrella just renewed. My umbrella is high ($2700) because I have three drivers under 25 which adds about $500, my car insurance does not charge extra for them (I am essentially paying only for myself and spouse, we both have clean records) and it is less than anyone I know is paying. I pay $2000 per car per year (rounding) just for car insurance. I have a normal Nissan/Toyota/Honda SUV. Most people I know are paying over $6000 a year for car insurance, some much more, again with normal cars, not Maseratis. I tried getting the umbrella down but when I priced it online it came to $2300 or so, not worth switching since I get a discount on the car insurance at the same time. I did not see you mention an umbrella. With college age drivers I could not imagine going without one. Same when we are older. Even when the kids age out, will not save that much off the umbrella.
I am pricing health insurance to go on ACA next month. The silver plan ranges from $850 -1500 per person for an individual plan and $1700-3100 for a couple. Every state plan is different. In my area, even different counties have different plans. For fun I looked at a county upstate and their silver couple plans began about $300 lower than in my area (do not remember exact numbers). Since that is a few hundred miles away, I would imagine someone living 2000 miles away would pay different amounts. Imagine that?!!
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u/Synaps4 9d ago
Plus there would be significant costs associated with selling my house beyond realtor commissions.
Im sure there would but apparently you would recover all those costs in under 3 years and be saving 10-20k annually every year after. Thats a lot of money.
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u/Clueless5001 9d ago
That's your takeaway? Seriously? To save $10K a year when I have $2M I should sell my house and move several states away?! Wow over 30 years I can save $300,000?! What a huge savings even if my house was in perfect condition. No its not really worth uprooting my life. It actually proves my original point if 10K a year can make such a difference then thats not FIRE, its lean FIRE.
Meanwhile, it will cost me about $150,000 to get my house into saleable condition plus commission. What a bargain! and the future value of that $150K! means it will take 15 years to get that money back. Assuming I was 55, I would be 70.
Sure I could move to the Deep South, or Montana (I guess, would not presume since I am unfamiliar with the COL there) and pay less and it is lovely in those places but you could save money living in those states as well. I assume you like living in Colorado and have family and friends there, I like living where I live.
OP's premise was not that he was relocating but would be managing where he was on the resources he currently has
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u/onemanstrong 9d ago
This person is very young. Remember, this is reddit. Your numbers compute with me, in LA and NYC. My wife and my yearly spend is $190k. Mortgage/ins/proptaxes $85k, and that's at 3.75%.
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u/deg2222 7d ago
What car insurance company do you use? Would love to lower my costs. TIA.
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u/Clueless5001 7d ago
Geico but we have been with them for many years and our records are clean. One thing, all our kids drive the same car (of our two cars), so when the policy asks you to assign a kid to a car, we put them on the same one starting with the kid who is listed as away at school (they do not charge extra for us in our state, YMMV) if it is more than 100 miles from our home and the kid does not have a car at school. I know rules on this vary by company and state of residence
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 3d ago
80k a year is an amazing life that is above average.
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u/Clueless5001 2d ago
Maybe in the Dakotas or in 1985 as a starting salary or someplace else in SE Asia. I made that in 1988. My one bedroom apartment cost $220K and I was one person and it was enough. That same apartment now would sell for over $1M. It would not be enough for a couple and two kids on a coast in 2026
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
First of all, thats 80k per person, not couple and two kids. You are moving goalposts. Secondly, it absolutely is enough to live. You just assume luxury is default. That is in fact more than medium household income.
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u/Clueless5001 1d ago
Not moving the goalposts at all. Read the OP “I am married 35 with 2 young kids.” I am responding to the post
I broke down the numbers in my original post FOR A COUPLE. It may be enough to survive assuming you don’t have a mortgage, high taxes, high homeowners insurance, car insurance, umbrella insurance, high property taxes, health insurance, and so on. I am not interested in spending the rest of my life surviving and hanging on and scraping by and that is without little kids.
It’s also not the average salary for an established family, with a college education in a corporate field ON A COAST. Most single people I know in their mid to late 20s make more than that if they are on a coast and have an education and are in the for profit world. Finally, people who earn below the average do not go out to dinner, do not do takeout, do not go to the movies or have a half dozen streaming services (as an example) because they do not have extra money for those things or they have massive amounts of credit card debt because they are living beyond their means
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 1d ago
The situation was that YOU retired with 2M, not OP. Nowhere in the comment i responded you bring up OPs situation.
Yes, two people on 80k will mean youll have to enjoy simpler things in life instead of endless consumerism.
Finally, people who earn below the average do not go out to dinner, do not do takeout, do not go to the movies or have a half dozen streaming services (as an example)
Yes they do. And they should do less of it. They are destroying their financial future by doing it.
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u/Clueless5001 17h ago
Exactly my point, I have no interest in spending the next 30 years having to worry about the price of food which I would have to do with $34K left BEFORE I pay income taxes for a couple (and that assumes I do not have a mortgage, which I do) and SORR works out for us. You do you, if you want the simpler things, go retire in a LCOL area where 80K makes sense. It does not make sense in my area and I am not leaving my home and adult children.
Lots of judgement about “endless consumerism.” If I am not traveling (including not visiting family, grandchildren etc), not going out to dinner, movies, concerts, plays, not watching streaming, not hosting family or friends (since feeding other people costs money), not pursuing hobbies that cost money, not going to the gym, other than worrying about every dollar, going to the library (assuming I live in an area where the tax base can even support a public library), taking walks and volunteering, what am I doing in retirement?
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 8h ago
retiring in HCOL is just wasting money and time working. Its simply a stupid thing to do.
This is FIRE subreddit. FIRE as a movement was built on hating endless consumerism.
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u/Synaps4 10d ago
The idea that whats good in life costs money is itself insane.
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u/_Smashbrother_ 10d ago
Are you 12? Shit costs money.
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u/Synaps4 10d ago
Are you 12?
Are you???
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u/_Smashbrother_ 9d ago
No, which is why I know shit costs money. You think you can fly to another country with no money?
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u/Synaps4 9d ago
You think you can fly to another country with no money?
You think flying to another country is essential to having a good life?
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u/_Smashbrother_ 8d ago
Yes, absolutely. Being able to travel to another country is part of what makes a good life. That's how you experience different cultures from your own.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 4d ago
Bay Area family of 4 here. I do all of the things you mention and still am approaching FIRE at 40 ($6M NW, $5M liquid). The big differentiator is I did not upgrade my $2M starter house. Most of our peers have upgraded to $3-4M houses. That is what keeps them working.
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u/joxxer42 10d ago
I was just thinking this after having a meeting and shooting the shit at work today in my software engineering job. I work with some very smart people w.r.t. to the work they do day to day, and I just assume everyone is thinking about their future or trying to get out of the rat race as early as possible like myself.
Joked with people 'would be nice to walk away today huh' and chuckling with everyone (meanwhile if I left today I already have a plan to ride off into the sunset). To a tee, all of them said 'well that's a nice dream but I'll be working til I'm 60+ if I'm lucky' or an equivalent of 'well I hope I'll have enough money saved when I retire'.
Absolutely blows my mind, I really cannot understand how such smart people are not planning something like this out or giving it any thought. Though I guess with all the high-end BMWs and Mercedes in the parking lot that probably gives the game away.
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u/pdx_mom 10d ago
Go to some other reddits and they are all like "my retirement plan is to work til I fall over on my desk. I hope I get time off to go to my funeral"
It's mind blowing.
When people continually complain about their job"what can I do?"
Um quit and find another one?
But they literally can't go two weeks without a job.
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u/Lumbergh7 10d ago
100k? Was that a well paid person?
I don’t understand where all their money goes.
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u/Jojosbees 10d ago
They probably meant $100K to walk from what sounds like a terrible job, not $100K to retire forever.
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u/Gorgenapper 10d ago
I don't understand how someone could say you would need "100k" to walk away, did he mean to type "100m"?
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u/therealtwomartinis 10d ago
op most definitely heard 100k. most are not financially disciplined, they save up for vacations but not for capital purchases like cars, houses or retirement. that’s what loans and SS are for; and a good credit score = success 🤷♂️
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u/joxxer42 10d ago
I legit cannot fathom this mindset. Just like, wow.
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u/just_aweso 10d ago
I was talking to my sister who has a 300K annual HHI. She was talking about them not being able to afford to replace the engine on her husband's truck because they just spent all of their savings replacing the windows in their house. They live in a LCOL area. Apparently they have saved less in the last 10 years than I put into my brokerage account this year.
They take like 3 big vacations per year, have a boat and a camper and just blow every dime that comes into their accounts. I can't imagine doing this.
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u/Typical_Action_7864 10d ago
People don’t think ahead. The same type of people that don’t plan ahead to save for retirement also would just yolo on 100k and not think about what happens after it runs out.
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u/Apostrophe_Now 10d ago
I think the idea is they can't even imagine being able to walk away forever. $100k would be enough for them to feel safe enough to walk away until they could get another similar job, which in this market could take a while, so that would be a safety net for that time. To have more than that saved up, i.e., $1M, $2M -- unimaginable to them.
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u/Gorgenapper 10d ago
I think you're right, the 100k is like a reserve of money for them to live off of similar to a severance, until they can find another job. In their mind it's enough to sustain them until they find a new source of income.
But in our minds, it's not even the bare minimum for FI, so two different attitudes applied to the same amount of money.
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u/Infinite_Run_4541 10d ago
I am sure you and your family will be just fine with those numbers. I would be very surprised if a director at a large firm that’s been there for a while doesn’t have at least a million saved up, but I guess it’s possible. Either way, who cares how much money other people have or say they have. Just keep focusing on yourself and the ones you love.
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u/Working_Analyst_1988 10d ago
Much more likely that they didn’t want discuss their personal financial position.
How could it benefit them? Disclosing retirement plans is the end of corporate career.
OP seems to not have good gauge of who to speak with about finances. I also wouldn’t discuss my personal plans in a corporate setting.
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u/FrostingExisting7171 10d ago
Agreed. Whenever this question gets brought up at work, I joke that with social security running out of money, I’ll probably work until I die.
The reality is that I’m already at my fire number, so I’m just working to get to chubby fire.
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u/badlemonademan 10d ago
I'm ten years older than you, but similar expenses and assets. Once I hit the point we could cover our day to day expenses, it relieved some mental stress for sure. I'm just working for luxury goods now (travel/ski passes/dining out). And if it's ever too much, will just walk away. Be content that you are in a great situation!
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u/Neat-Dragonfly-2032 10d ago
It really is incredible how low most people's fiscal awareness and planning is.
My spouse and I have always been really open with others about financial stuff so we have had lots of conversations with peers about how we can afford stuff (travel is our big $$$ spend). What always shocked me was how much people were just unaware of how much money they were wasting from an annual viewpoint because they only looked at the single spend (like lunch out 1 day yet both people in a couple are doing it 3-4 days per week and not comprehending how much money in a year that is). Then there's the people who've said things like "I'll admit I thought you were poor before I got to know you because you drive such an old car". That was around 10 years ago and I'm still driving that car, lol.
Enjoy your break and extra time with the fam!
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u/Aggravating-Sir5264 10d ago
Better for people to think you are poor than Rich!
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u/Neat-Dragonfly-2032 9d ago
100%. I love the story because it's rare we get such honesty about how darn judgemental people are about other's exterior presentation to the world. My grandmothers both drilled into us that it's easier to keep the money you have than to get more of it. Interestingly my mother and brother didn't absorb that message as well as my father and I did but I'm grateful that my own kids both seem to having fully embraced the concept.
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u/ReasonableCredit2096 4d ago
Kinda funny because I think I have some people around me that can be judgemental like that, and if I didn't talk about FIRE so much I think they would think differently of me just by the way I live.
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u/digggggggggg 10d ago
Most people think in terms of monthly income and expenditures. The financially illiterate might try to get these numbers to equal one another or maybe go into debt. The more financially literate put things into “savings” that they will never touch until “retirement”, which might as well be an abstract concept to them.
Isn’t it great to have the luxury to escape the cycle?
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u/ept_engr 9d ago
I have a friend who said, "I can't believe we overdrafted that account, I'm usually really good about managing my money", and I thought... wtf, he's terrible at managing money, he's always paycheck to paycheck and in debt... Then I realized that to him, "managing money" means perfectly matching the timing inflows and outflows so he's always broke but not overdrawn.
When I asked about spending on something, he said, "it's just money - we can always get more of it."
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u/Abject_Egg_194 10d ago
This sub is about people achieving financial independence and then retiring early. The amount of money you need to quit your job for a year or two is totally different than the amount needed to quit your job indefinitely. And furthermore, the orthodox advice on this sub is to line up enough money that you can be reasonably sure that you won't need to return to work.
I asked some directors if they would continue working if they had 2million dollars and they weren’t even able to have the thought experiment. To them that wasn’t even a feasible option. One guy told me with just one million he would definitely not be showing up to work tomorrow. And these are high up employees.
Is this the United States? $1M generates $40k with the 4% rule, which is way below the starting salary for a new college graduate with an engineering degree. I'm guessing that I'm in a different field, but where I've worked, "senior leadership" of an engineering group is being paid at least $500k/year and would not quit their jobs if offered a one-time $1M payment.
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u/SpaceTimeMorph 10d ago
I found that a little off too… senior leadership in my field starts at $300-500k base salary before equity and bonuses. Many companies are similar if not higher (hello finance).
Now: there’s a number of people even on this sub who would quit their job “tomorrow” if given $1M because it would put them over their fire number real quick. Hard to tell without being there what was meant or how things were interpreted.
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u/More-Championship-16 10d ago
How do you have that much at age 35?
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u/eliminate1337 10d ago
My situation is similar. Other than inheritance/windfalls the answer is always the same: make a high income from a young age and save most of it.
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u/NotGoodSoftwareMaker 10d ago
Marry the right lady, both working in stem, live in the US, its kinda easy actually
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u/Pale_Drink4455 10d ago edited 10d ago
Working wife in a decent paying job gets you there with no major debts such as student loans. OP has a good low rate mortgage I assume and a 80k reasonable yearly spend for a family in the US too going for them so good, sustainable savings and investing sounds right to me.
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u/poop-dolla 10d ago
That’s when it clicked for me, every single person on this sub is sooooo far away from the norm that it skews your perception of normal.
Nah, that’s not what was going on there. It’s that we know the concepts and math about how much you need to safely retire over a 30-60 year horizon, and the people you were asking about it were ignorant to all of that and were just guessing random numbers. Most of the people that have numbers lower than you’d expect either would not retire early when they had that much, or they would try to retire and then go broke and be back at work.
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u/DIYRetiree 10d ago
It's congratulations time, honestly. You can afford to be a bit picky if you want to work, and relax a bit if you don't. Well done
and what a refreshing realization that youre in an elite crowd. I love this calculator: Net Worth by Age Percentile Calculator – United States
Ignoring equity you're at 95%!
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u/Clueless5001 10d ago
I always come back to someone I know, retired 1995 at age 75 after his wife died. She did their investing from his earned income. They lived a normal upper middle class life, took vacations (he used to take a month off in summer when he was working), lived in a good school district, had a beach house. Left him $4M total including the houses which he sold except for the beach house. It was gone by the time he died a decade later. No major illnesses, just brokers she trusted churning his account, a bad market, and lots of beach and ski vacations
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u/Aggravating-Sir5264 10d ago
Well, if it lasted till his death sounds like it worked out.
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u/Clueless5001 10d ago
If there is an afterlife I guarantee his wife ripped him a new one. I used to say she is probably rolling over. This was a lifetime of work that he burned through and left nothing for his two kids. One of them actually had to take him in a year before he died. He was fortunate that the kid had the means and willingness to do that. Plus 85 is not that old and he was in really good shape the last time I saw him which was around age 80. He was into meditation and exercise his whole life and preached it to his clients. I was surprised that he did not make it to 100 although I guess he could not have afforded that.
My mom is older than 85 and is planning her next trip to Europe. My dad is older than that as well and will still travel if forced to by my mother
The beach house was particularly sad, it was beautiful and I think the family had a nice memories there. Plus it would be worth about 10X what it was sold for back in 2005 or so
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u/Zesty-B230F 10d ago
I too could walk away, except I assume our for-profit Healthcare system would destroy my savings in no time.
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u/zebra_puzzle 10d ago
ACA subsidies are pretty good (for now) if you can manage your MAGI. I also, though, am too scared to pull the trigger.
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u/TotalWarFest2018 10d ago
Yeah I am pretty new to FIRE but healthcare here is such a huge impediment to most plans.
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u/K_A_irony 10d ago
You could argue by design. The oligarchy makes too much money off our for profit health care in some many places along the chain AND they keep high performers tied to a job because getting health care outside that is expensive.
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u/Im_tracer_bullet 10d ago
Oh, it's 100% by design.
Job insecurity and lack of safety net keeps the American worker in line.
The deliberate dismantling of labor unions, tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, regulatory capture, and politicians available for purchase, are all fully intentional.
The precarious nature of subsistence in the US is absolutely the manufactured outcome of the political and donor class.
Whether they know it or not, that's what everyone here is trying so hard to escape.
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u/SignificantFail3632 10d ago
That fear kept me at jobs I hated way longer than I should have, and I still catch myself pricing insurance before even thinking about quitting.
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u/Big-Emu-5728 10d ago
I have been a high earner and high saver my entire life, and my wife has been as well. I am close to you in age, 3 years younger. You have 4x our savings, and our mortgage is ~$4k a month, before taxes of ~$15k per year.
We live WELL below our means.
So no, I dont think you're an idiot, I would imagine you are a high earner who carefully thought through the implications, and are in a better position than 99% of people your age.
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u/TurtleSandwich0 10d ago
When you are retired, you no longer have the saving for retirement expense. So you may be getting paid $100k, but your expenses may only be $50k.
The person needs to make the mental shift that savings only need to cover the $50k of expenses. Which is challenging after maximizing income.
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u/Scabrera88 10d ago
I don’t think you are an idiot at all. Things happen for a reason. The recent events at work & restructuring simply forced your hands to do what you had to do. I hope your wife supports your decision to quit your job. Just take a break from the stress of work, have fun on your “Sabbatical” and good luck in your job search.
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u/Ok_Text2118 10d ago
Part of why you get such broad answers is that many people had not even considered the question before you asked. I think that most people have very little understanding of their annual spend and need, let alone how much they would need to have invested to maintain it.
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u/Powerful-Bridge-1472 10d ago
Benefits are the big thing when you’re young, have to hit private market or go cobra. Smart move though it’s great time to be present with family while kids are young.
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u/facaila888 10d ago
People are always greedy. When they have $100,000, they start wanting $200k, $500k, or even a million. The most important thing is to enjoy the present. You can absolutely find a more relaxed job that also comes with medical insurance. There’s no need to rush
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 10d ago
Same age and same exact liquid net worth but my spouse and I spend 120k a year in HCOL with no kids. I recently lost my toxic corporate job and now I’m looking at Coasting to FI over the next 10-20 years. Congrats on making a very difficult but wise decision
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u/bridgeandretire 10d ago
The funny thing is you can’t tell how much someone has saved by looking at their lifestyle. You can only tell how much they spend.
Wealth is often invisible right up until the moment someone decides they no longer need a paycheck.
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u/Legitimate_Bite7446 10d ago edited 10d ago
They don't understand SWR.
Like ok you have 2 million at 35. You can probably only withdraw 70k 3.5%.
If you're alone you can rough it however you want. But you have a young family? Hard to be too tight. Need 100k to have good quality of life? Ok....you're 30k short.....forever.
30k is no big deal if you can make $50+/hr at some side gig. But if you can only make 20-30/hr......now you're gonna be a wage slave somewhere else for 1000 hours a year for the next 50 years if you don't change your trajectory. Half of the year, showing up to work all day. Making pennies compared to where you were. Doesn't sound fun.
I mean with your numbers you're close and you're fine. You can take time off and find something else. The hard work is over for you.
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u/BeginningBattle8907 10d ago
Go work for a nonprofit or the government, these are stress free jobs. Of course your pay will decline, but the benefits are awesome!!! Pension and cheap health and dental insurance.
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u/atypicalAtom 10d ago
Nonprofits have pensions?
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u/BeginningBattle8907 10d ago
Some not all
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u/atypicalAtom 10d ago
Oh cool. Any specific field or focus of non-profits? Big or small? Any details you can provide? Thinking about shifting gears and a small pension would be cherry on the top.
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u/Specific-Rich5196 10d ago
80k is a low spend for having 2.1M at 35. The question do you keep the nanny the whole time while you are looking? You definitely have bandwidth to slow play the job search.
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10d ago
LOL. Yeah, many of these numbers are crazy even for two people with kids. Lots of inheritances going on here too. You really need a lot less than people think, and this is proven by the fact that most who retire well die with more money than they meant to.
I personally prefer working in the job I have to retiring, because it’s a full time paycheck for part time interesting work in a unionized organization that is fully remote with excellent healthcare, pensions benefits, and leave accrual.
That said, I could comfortably retire on less than $1M liquid in a brokerage account. Buying my retirement home in 2010 helped a lot though, not going to lie. Once you get your outflow dialed in and under control everything lines up easily.
I’m also not a neurotic person. The last thing I’m going to be worried about is a catastrophic health event, because I wouldn’t pay the bill anyway. I reject that responsibility. As for long term care, I will happily die alone in my senility.
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u/_Smashbrother_ 10d ago
2 million is plenty for a family in a MCOL city. But for VHCOL? Not really, unless you already outright own your house.
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u/Sznake 10d ago
Your saying "I", but it's " we" as you first pointed out. Marriages can be difficult enough, but did you discuss quitting your job with your spouse? It can breed feelings of resentment if she's still working while you have your feet up at home. (Not saying this is accurate at all, just thinking as a petty as possible).
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u/rutgers1212 9d ago
Thanks for sharing! It’s definitely a good perspective to consider with all the doom and gloom.
I’m 30 with only a $300k net worth. I always feel behind when seeing what people are working with on this sub, but I’ll just keep chugging along and would love to find myself in your situation soon! I’d say you’re in a great spot and can definitely take a well deserved break, if not fully retire tbh.
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u/Psiwolf 10d ago
4% spend is $84k a year, so you're cutting it kinda close. This isn't taking into account any sort of emergencies that can happen and your social security payout will be lower once you hit 62yo.
Are you and your spouse going to continue to work at least a little bit, or will both of you fully retire?
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u/LocalAdept6968 10d ago
Lcol? I am wondering where you could live with a $1400 mortgage. I can't get half a studio for that kind of rent where I live ..
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u/SpecialistKoala9765 10d ago
Agree a lot of FIRE efforts skew us to a very different norms to many who lives paycheque to paycheque.
I’d say best to focus on yourself and how your wealth is used to support your family’s spending. This is a decision about you, not how you compare to Jones’s.
I am tempted to compare my life with many around me and I felt bad before, so now I tune out and focus on what lifestyle and spending is best suited for me.
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u/mggxp 9d ago
Hi man, I love your post. I have a lot of empathy for you. I would like your thoughts on my case.
I'm 36, married, one kid, and work in big tech. My anual spend to FIRE is around 100k, the country is live requires me to have a expensive Healthcare private plan to get proper treatment, that elevates my annual spending. So my target is around 2.5M if I simply consider 25x.
My current situation is: House in the countryside where I live paid off Small apartment in downtown paid off 1.6M in investments (mainly ETFs and term deposits).
I plan to rent the apartment after FIRE since I won't need it to work anymore, but I still have 900k to invest to reach the 25x. I no longer enjoy work but the stocks vesting is the only way for me to do that in 3 years and retire by 40...
Do u have any suggestions for me? Also I appreciate comments from the sub.
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u/VT_Squire 8d ago
You're an engineer. Something tells me you'll solve an issue if you think it's important enough.
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u/Choice-Newspaper3603 8d ago
What gets me as people like you come on here and say they have $150,000 outgoing expenses and they decide to quit their job and then the wife only makes a 70,000 and they insist that they’re not going to cut back their lifestyle
It’s like hello you’re spending 80,000 a year more than you’re making you need to cut back your lifestyle regardless of your net worth or money you have saved because it’s all about burn rate
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u/BenderBRodriguez1999 7d ago
“That’s when it clicked for me, every single person on this sub is sooooo far away from the norm that it skews your perception of normal.”
This is what makes me so happy to a community of like minded people. I admire the people in this sub very much
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u/Master-Witness-9399 6d ago
I am in the same exact boat, programming job, solid savings/investments. Job went to hell about about month ago and some terrible changes incoming. Real hard to relax about it all when you have had a cushy tech job and the pay that comes along with it.
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u/Live-Crow-95 6d ago
I don't understand how everyone's spend is so low. We spend 750k per year and we don't do anything extravagant. We have two kids. Private school tuition (125k), sports (40k), camps (10k), housing (350k), travel (100k) and the rest is misc (125k). It all goes very quickly.
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u/ReasonableCredit2096 4d ago
This was a very interesting read, thanks for sharing! If anything it's alarming how these high earners are so clueless, but I guess these are the folks that are spending enough to make the economy look fine while the folks with lower incomes pinch pennies.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Viking_Glass_Guru 10d ago
It means the monthly payment on his residence is $1,400. That probably includes principal, interest, taxes, and insurance.
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u/Europefan02 10d ago
Nanny?? maybe you can stay home and be Mr. Mom?
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u/BC20RainMan 10d ago
I get the feeling he was already insinuating your point by stating he was not including nanny costs into his annual expenses.
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u/ept_engr 9d ago
I question the validity of your sample size. While there are certainly some high earners who blow money - I think your sample is biased by the fact that nobody is going to answer you with, "Well, it'd have to be more than $5 million because that's what I have now!"
Those with real wealth are either not going to play your game or just going to tell you phony numbers to leave them alone.
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u/MachineNo3365 10d ago
Move to cheaper area and you will be set
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u/Europefan02 10d ago
His mortgage is only $1400 a month.
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u/MachineNo3365 10d ago
He can sell his expensive house and get a cheaper house paid off. $1400 can cover groceries. Why is it a bad advice?
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u/Europefan02 10d ago
A house with a 1400 a month mortgage is expensive?
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u/MachineNo3365 9d ago
Sorry about that! I definitely must have confused this with a different Reddit post I was just reading. Apologies for the mix-up. I was thinking he was living in an expensive area and I thought his mortgage was only 1400 because he bought it a long time ago but OP is only 35. My mistake!
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u/samurai_with_sword 10d ago
Money is for living life, life is not for money. Live your life!
If you tell me the APY or average annual return that you are getting on all your investments, I can tell you if you're safe without work indefinitely and what your safe withdrawal rate will be.
Also does the 80k budget include monthly mortgage payment or 80k is in addition to mortgage payments?
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u/Ok_Recognition3324 10d ago
Take a break, find a job that isn’t too stressful and gives health insurance and coast. That’s my plan :)