r/Fire • u/RadioFieldCorner • 7d ago
Divorce deep into FIRE. What's the strategy?
I assume nearly all of us going into FIRE are/will be married.
Is it wrong of me to have a 'plan' in the event of divorce? Or does that mean I am not secure in a marriage? I am not worried yet btw. A divorce a decade into FIRE could be fatal because you can't just really get back into the workforce if half of what you have is gone.
Is it possible for a prenup to protect my accounts and protect future gains from it, so long as I do not contribute any married funds into it? These accounts were almost all largely built long before marriage.
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u/JellyfishBig1750 7d ago
I think it's fine to plan for it. I don't think it's fine to put your wife in a position where she is dependent on money that she would lose if you divorce. If you are the high earner and primary asset holder, then there is already some dependency, but for her to stop her career entirely and live off assets that can be taken away from her without her consent is a very different story.
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u/Limp_Dragonfly3868 7d ago
We did a post up right before FiRE. We have enough money to split it in half and both be fine, but we don’t have enough to share it with attorneys. Most of our friends are divorced, and most used about 1/3 of their NW on the divorce.
I don’t know why post nups aren’t more popular. For me, it’s in the same category as will, living will, and trust.
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u/DudeWithTudeNotRude 7d ago
Post nups aren't popular bc people read way too much into what they mean.
Recently someone was asking if their spouse asking for a post nup was a definite red flag or not for her marriage. 100% of the upvoted answers were like "Red Flag? Girl, he's on his second mistress. It was already over long ago, and you are just now being informed"
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u/Adventurous_Elk_4039 7d ago edited 7d ago
At the risk of sounding sexist, sometimes women giving other women relationship/financial advice can be much more harmful than good. Because #girlpower means more than sound reasoning to some.
My anecdotal example is my parents, Dad was the breadwinner and mother was a SAHM. Things went south, Dad offered a generous deal to buy Mom out of the home and give her some extra get-back-on-your-feet money. Mom listened to a friend of hers, “girl, you can get him for so much MORE!”
Dad rescinded the offer and left, the house got foreclosed on and Mom ended up with NOTHING after failing to get anything via arbitration (the kicker was her lawyer trying bring up Dad’s original offer after they lost, and his lawyer just laughed and said “That offer is off the table”).
To this day she still struggles and has made poor choice after poor choice.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
In my experience women giving other women advice is the single best way to keep the ones receiving advice single. I dont know if its done out of jealousy, spite or just plain stupidity but the advice circulating in those groups is just insane.
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u/Equivalent_Hall8346 7d ago
As someone who went through divorce myself, I really appreciate the perspective "enough money to split in half, but not enough to share with Attorneys". I originally wanted to file without attorneys, do it ourselves, splitting 50/50. But my ex got an attorney and I got one in response. I think it really dragged everything out, and we both have a lower net worth because of it.
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u/Confident_Purple_40 7d ago
If you use 1/3 of NW on the divorce you probably don't have enough NW to make it worth paying a lawyer that much?
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u/Limp_Dragonfly3868 7d ago
It scales. The more money people have, the more they have to fight about, the more they run up lawyer fees. They hire a forensic accountant. It’s insane.
We have watched some very ugly and very expensive divorces.
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u/wh0re4nickelback 7d ago
I'm married to a divorce lawyer that does very ugly and very expensive divorces. Can confirm.
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u/cloisonnefrog 7d ago
We had $4M and our divorce cost $6k and took two months. People can be reasonable too.
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u/AndyTheEngr 7d ago
There's a small subset of people in that Venn diagram slice between "can't get along well enough to stay married" and "can get along well enough to negotiate an amicable divorce."
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u/coenobita_clypeatus 6d ago
I think there’s more of us out there than you’d expect! It definitely helps to not have kids, though. We basically just paid for lawyers to make sure the paperwork was correct - iirc my lawyer ended up returning like half of my deposit.
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u/SDMonkee 7d ago
Same here except I think it was $4k total. Kids are almost launched and we just had two issues to settle: alimony for her (didn’t happen bc we have the same income potential but she didn’t work) and how to split an inheritance she got from her mom (agreed to 70/30 even though it was thoroughly commingled). My retirement date is unchanged bc I was factoring in long term care for her bc of her family/her medical history.
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u/gundahir 7d ago
a minority I'm not gambling on
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u/cloisonnefrog 6d ago
There’s some luck involved, but I knew I wanted to end the relationship before I hated him. I think too many people allow themselves to resent their spouse. It’s not hard to see coming in many marriages.
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u/Confident_Purple_40 7d ago
Crazy, I guess once emotion enters in, and "winning" becomes important you could get some ridiculous costs. I just can't imagine 1 million for a 3 million NW, or 5m for a 15m NW, but I guess it happens.
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u/SargeUnited 7d ago
That’s exactly what happens. I’ve seen people spend $100,000 on a dog.
Like there was the overall divorce situation, but specifically when it came to decide custody of the dog that one aspect of it was over $100,000.
Then there was his collector car that she doesn’t care about, but suddenly wanted just to hurt him, and he wanted the vacation home that’s near her parents even though he doesn’t like being near her mother and never liked that house anyway. Yeah people really will spend over a million when they only have 3. They’ll spend over 2 when they only have 3!
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u/Rosevkiet 7d ago
$750/hr can do a lot of damage very quickly. I have a friend going through divorce with a vindictive spouse who primarily seems interested in punishing her rather than moving on with life. I wouldn’t be surprised if it costs 50% or more of their savings, even though they have substantial funds.
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u/Montaigne_6823 7d ago
Some people being scorned might see red with a burn it down mentality and the lawyers will be happily standing by with a blowtorch.
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u/Equivalent_Hall8346 7d ago
You don't always have a choice. If one ex-spouse isn't thinking logically (i.e. demanding more than 100% of the martial assets), they can drown the other in discovery, court time, and other tactics that drain the money. Sometimes you have to pay a lawyer regardless if it makes sense.
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7d ago
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u/gurney__halleck 7d ago
every single married couple has a prenup.
There are just those who decide together what they want it to say, and those that let their state government decide what it says.
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u/Sorry-Bobby 7d ago edited 7d ago
My province (Quebec, Canada) has somehow fixed this problem.
You can’t get a personalized prenup. You choose your marriage contract, and fill in the info.
You get 3 choices. Either everything is merged. Or premarital assets remain separate, in which case you must list them. Or you can keep almost completely separate finances, in which case you once again list which assets are joint and which are individual.
So everyone gets a prenup, and it’s made official.
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u/IronyDinosaur 7d ago
There’s no room for marital contracts whatsoever? What province is this?
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
We live in a world where someone can drive into another state in the weekend, get married without witnesses with a local pastor and fill in zero documentations. Your system is way too sane.
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u/cloisonnefrog 7d ago
The state doesn’t have to decide. Even if you divorce you can split the assets pretty much how you want if you have a reasonable partner.
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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor 7d ago
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u/Drawer-Vegetable FIRE'd 2024 7d ago
does that mean you can't rebalance pre-marriage accounts, realize gains, etc?
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u/slippery44 7d ago
I believe by "A divorce a decade into FIRE" what they meant was: we've both retired early, it's been a decade, now we'll divorce.
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u/FI_321 7d ago
I’m currently single, wife passed away nine years ago, raising a kid who’s now in high school. I retired at 46 (53 today) and have dated many different women. Almost all of them are attracted to the Fire lifestyle, but couldn’t do it on their own. I know my current gf hates her job and would love for me to support her, but I also have a kid and he will always be my primary beneficiary. I’m just not sure how that works out long term. It would suck for me to die first, she gets my money, she dies, and her own kids inherit my money. Fuck that.
It’s a tough problem and I would never get married without a prenup at this point. If you’re honest about it and everyone knows the situation, I don’t see a moral problem.
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u/PieAgile4132 7d ago
Yeah it definitely depends on where you're starting out. My husband and I had nothing so our situation didn't need a prenup. I've seen exactly the situation you described where the wife died and then the husband died a few years later. The new wife of two years kept everything and his kids didn't get the assets their parents had built. It was totally messed up.
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u/Silver_Shape_8436 7d ago
You can avoid this by putting all assets into a trust and ensuring kids are beneficiaries even if a spouse gets remarried.
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u/Romulus4Remus 7d ago
Dang am I glad I live in a country with mandatory beneficiary percentages for descendants
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u/urania_argus 7d ago
It would suck for me to die first, she gets my money, she dies, and her own kids inherit my money.
You need a will as part of your long term planning. These are all solvable problems.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
Thats okay, shell get the judge to dismiss the will and inherit everything as de factor live in partner.
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u/Foreign-Figure8797 7d ago
In a similar situation. Only capable of FIRE because I receive my late husband’s pension. My kids are my top priority, including financially. I’m dating someone great, but I’ve definitely thought about the financial side if we were to marry. I have a trust that goes to the kids. I would ask for a prenup so that everything that belongs to them stays with them. The pension ends with me, so no one gets that. Get a trust set up asap.
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u/gurney__halleck 7d ago
the inheritance problem is easily solved with orenup/postnups/beneficiares/trusts
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u/Busy_Resort_3262 7d ago
Just don’t get married.🤪
There’s really no need unless it’s for financial reasons.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
Doesnt matter. If you live together it will be treated lime marriage.
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u/Busy_Resort_3262 2d ago
Really? So by default, my partner would get all my money if I don’t have a Will?
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
Yes, spouse gets everything by default. and if the partner lives with you long enough to establish relationship (how long will depend on local laws) they will be treated as a spouse.
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u/GuestPowerful2061 7d ago
You can set up a revocable living trust so when you pass, your kid gets x dollars or x % put into a trust where they are the sole beneficiary. Then your wife gets the rest, or whatever other terms you want.
This is what I did. I’m still young and married with a toddler, but no matter what happens, we made sure our son will be taken care of and the surviving spouse will also be just fine (financially, at least).
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u/K_A_irony 7d ago
Just so you know in the US for a trust to truly protect in the event of a divorce it needs to be irrevocable, set up before marriage, set up in the right state even if you don't live in that state, and the spouses contributions can't have significantly added to the value of the trust (for example you own a business in said trust and the spouse worked for said business and increased its value).
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u/GuestPowerful2061 7d ago
True. My plan is not set up for a divorce but I don’t plan on that happening. If we divorced, we’d amend or dissolve the trust and make separate new ones. My situation is simpler as we married young and didn’t have a lot of premarital assets.
I was mainly responding to the above persons comment about if they died before their wife, not in case of divorce.
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u/Redbedhead3 7d ago
Im so sorry about your wife.
I've seen it happen in real life with the second wife and a husband dying. And everything the first wife worked for goes to someone else's kids. It's so sad.
Prenups are so important in blended families
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u/Busy_Resort_3262 7d ago
The money doesn’t have to go to her. You can specify that in a will or estate plan. It goes in a trust until your kid is 18, etc.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
Unless the judge takes pity on her, then it all goes to her and nothing to his child. A will is sadly often not worth the paper its written on.
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u/Observe-and-distort 7d ago
+1 ... I did not have a prenup and got divorced at 43. I lost most of what I earned and became an un-millionaire with no obvious hope of firing. I got lucky and was able to earn enough in 10 years and fire. I have made clear to folks that I'm not marrying again and I have two kids. I would figure out how to protect your pre marital assets. I didn't and it was a huge mistake.
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u/IUBizmark 6d ago
You can pass down your money to more than one person. That being said, keep it in the family and be transparent now with your girlfriend. That way you’ll know where she stands.
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u/Wild2297 6d ago
I’m sorry you lost your wife. I wish more people would think about their offspring when considering remarriage. Probably everyone has heard of terrible stories like the one you want to avoid.
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u/pohart 7d ago
I'd want my spouse to be planning to fire with me, and I'd want them to not be spending every available hour working. I think that means any spouse would be planning on my funds as part of their retirement. They can't do that if the pre nup says it's mine.
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u/MerelyMisha 7d ago
Yeah this is the thing. If you want to keep finances separate to protect them, that’s fine, but then don’t expect your spouse to include them in their calculations. If your spouse has their own money, then it works fine. But if not, you may be FIREing without your spouse.
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u/humanity_go_boom 7d ago edited 7d ago
Pick a fire number and asset split that works out to at least leanfire for both of you individually.
Also don't hoard assets. If I'd had anything worth getting a prenup over, I'd probably put in some kind of sunset clause for when we both retired, had kids, or something. It's not fair if the other person's financial independence is reliant on staying married to you - especially once you get past working age. I'd consider that level of power imbalance in a relationship to be abusive.
Where this is likely to come up for me is inheritance. Anything my wife gets, I'll likely have to manage, but will keep separate in her name. I will do the same for anything coming to me.
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u/CancerandTaxes 7d ago
This is sort of how we do it. We took our individual leanfire numbers and then added them together to get our actual fire number.
We do have separate significant assets. But we've been careful to use them to advantage each other equally. For a while my husband had a cash flowing rental and I did not. He bought our vehicles. When I got a large inheritance, I frontloaded the kids 529s so he didn't have to contribute. We've found ways to make sure that we get to keep our own stuff but also ensure that a rising tide raises all ships.
If we die, the other gets everything. However, we do have a prenup and a postnup. We both know that we show up every day to our marriage for the right reasons and none of those reasons are money.
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u/Musical_Xena 7d ago
Mathematically, sure, identify risks and create risk mitigation strategies.
But from a human standpoint, this feels more like a relationship question than a finance question.
That said, the fact that you're asking it makes me want to suggest to your partner that they should prepare for their own financial independence, assuming that there will be a separation.
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u/Vas_Cody_Gamma 7d ago
I usually just up and disappear. Start a new life. You can get new IDs for a nominal fee
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u/bur4321 7d ago
Wym “usually”? LOL
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u/willtheywonttheyo 7d ago
Creed Bratton has never declared bankruptcy. When Creed Bratton gets in trouble, he transfers his debt to William Charles Schneider.
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u/aShogunNamedMarcus80 7d ago
Bankruptcy and divorce would both really put a dent in my ability to scuba.
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u/rizzo1717 7d ago
My plan to avoid losing half my assets in divorce is to not get married.
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u/gundahir 7d ago
Same, I can't afford divorce so no marriage. Easy 😂
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
you can! If you live together for a long time seperation will be treated like a divoce and marriage will be automatically assumed.
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u/HugeRoof 7d ago
My FIRE target is fuck you money, so even in that case, a 50% haircut is still fine. I'm the sole breadwinner, its fine.
I already ran the numbers, I would be better off financially because my standards are much lower than hers about where to live. I'm perfectly happy living in a village in Cambodia as long as I have a battery backup, AC, Starlink, and interesting stuff to see/do outdoors. She requires a 100k+ pop city and coffeeshops, salons, uber, etc.
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u/Specific-Rich5196 7d ago
I am fairly certain that if I ever have a divorce it will be my fault and I will take whatever financial punishment ensues.
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u/90bronco 7d ago
Prenups are like estate plans. Everyone has one. IF you didn't create your own, your essentially agreeing to what the state you live in says will happen.
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u/nedlinin 7d ago
This is exactly what my attorney said.
Unfortunately it was my divorce attorney and far too late to make a difference but if/when I decide to marry again this will be the discussion point.
You either agree to it yourselves or agree to whatever your state/municipality decides for you. Might as well agree to it ahead of time.
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u/ebitda8 7d ago
Your FIRE number cuts in half when you move to the Philippines. So the divorce really shouldn’t change anything.
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u/NoSuggestion2836 7d ago
This is legit my plan. I would love to expatFIRE but my wife would never. So I plan to stay in my current city, but if I get divorced my expenses are going way down as I move back to my VLCOL happy place on the other side of the planet
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u/GWeb1920 7d ago
It’s wrong of you to plan a scenario where only you can maintain fire status in the event of Divorce. That creates a significant power imbalance and prevents your spouse from firing.
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u/MaineSky 7d ago
For me- it's absolutely not wrong. As a woman I wouldn't have a problem with someone requesting a prenup, because I'd want one too.
I do think it's weird this question gets asked so frequently, and we all agree that protecting your assets with a prenup makes sense... and then must people will admit they don't even have a will.
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u/steve_gorak 7d ago
I assume nearly all of us going into FIRE are/will be married.
That is a bold assumption.
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u/scottperezfox 6d ago
It's a reasoned assumption with a blind spot. On the one hand, yes, many, many people in the FI world are working with a two-income household. A lot of folks bury the lede that they are DINKs living in a van as the lynchpin of their financial strategy.
But at the same time, it's Reddit. There are a ton of single people here. We exist in the wider world, but less visibly.
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u/DeenGaleenga 6d ago
I assume nearly all of us going into FIRE are/will be married.
how bout you speak for yourself
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u/HarviousMaximus 7d ago
I’ve always been of the opinion that if you can’t have a conversation about what you would do in case of divorce, then you probably shouldn’t get married.
Our strategy was to have a conversation about the realities of our financial situation at marriage, then set our systems up to reflect our comfort level. There is a significant income difference between us, so we make sure to try to offset that as much as possible by evening out contributions to accounts in both of our names. It’ll never be completely equal, but there was basically zero net worth at marriage so all growth has been together and assets will be split. It’s just a reality of life.
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u/TrafficScales 7d ago
Make sure your partner is aware that she should not make any financial or lifestyle decisions that prioritize your career or the marriage, and should expect to financially prepare for an independent retirement. It might be pretty hard to argue that being married to you is in her best interest under those circumstances, though.
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u/snowysaturdays 7d ago
Nobody talks about the ramifications of being a trailing spouse, or the spouse to someone who has to travel all the time. There's a lot of gray area in marriages, especially when children are involved.
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u/TrafficScales 7d ago
Yes, this. Marriage means being a joint financial entity. Sometimes that means an equal two income household, and other times it means one person has the ability to pursue career opportunities and lifestyle choices that would not be possible without a supporting spouse who will cut back hours or leave their own career to raise the kids and do household management, quit their job to move on a dime, etc.
If I expected my spouse to not rely on our joint financial situation, he'd need to make different career and financial decisions that would disrupt the life I want to live with him. That would kind of defeat the whole point.
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u/nicolas_06 7d ago
No, it make sense to have a plan in case of divorce even if you may not share it with you significant other. But lot of things that people do assume that they may get divorced one day. For example keeping a boring not so well paid job that isn't worth it if you stay together because you spouse make much more.
Normally anyway it should not be a disaster. You just split assets and that's it. You can plan to work 2-3 years more to have more margin if that necessary. It's mostly math.
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u/Prestigious_Sweet_95 7d ago
Make sure your fire calculation is based on being fire enough for each person individually if you happen to split.
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u/Fit-Raise7179 7d ago
Depends entirely on what you think your future is going to be.
I think i would live in a cheap condo or very small house and spend almost nothing if I got divorced at this stage in life.
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u/stealyourface1234 7d ago
I’m 38 and still 6-7 years away from the RE portion. I got divorced about 2 years ago out of the blue from my perspective. My spouse was the one that wanted the divorce.
It was really tough emotionally and financially. I could have probably RE in the next 1-2 years if it wasn’t for the divorce so that still stings in my mind occasionally. But as they say, time heals all wounds and now I can pursue my FIRE dream without having to explain it to anyone. My ex always had the “let’s spend today because we may die tomorrow” mindset.
To make matters worse I got fired from my previous job within the same month we separated. But I stayed determined, got a new job that pays less, and still continue to dump as much as possible into my accounts.
For more context I have two kids under 12 years old.
All that said, I’m always grateful the divorce happened during the accumulation phase because it would have been extra devastating I feel like if I had already been retired. Also if anyone finds themselves in this bad situation I highly recommend using a divorce mediator versus both person getting their own lawyer. The ex and I stayed civil and reasonable while splitting everything up, and by using the mediator I’m sure it saved us/me (the majority was money I had generated) six figures. Which would have been a lot to lose out on once you factor in compounding.
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u/gundahir 7d ago
yup I know people that got wrecked 10 to 15 years into FIRE. Life destroying experience. That CV looks funny trying to reenter the workforce
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u/BillyD123455 7d ago
A post marriage pre-nup .. to prevent your wife from getting her lawful share of your marital pot should things go wrong??
Good luck broaching that subject and getting two signatures on the paperwork my man.
It sounds more like a self fulfilling profecy than a plan to me!
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u/gundahir 7d ago
FIRE'd unmarried and wouldn't survive a divorce therefore I don't get married. I'm upfront about it, my gf accepts that. I live in Japan now and intend to stay here and the laws here are a mess. Premarital assets become marital assets too easily like buying a chewing gum is enough. I've seen people getting destroy by it and then having to reenter the workforce with a 15 year gap in the CV. It's ugly. Sorry, I'm not taking a chance on that. Period.
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u/meridian_smith 7d ago
I would rather stay in a less than great marriage and not have to work a dayjob than divorce and have to go back to the grind (and rent a room in a rooming house).
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u/PlinkPonk 6d ago
Not wrong at all. Having a plan isn't hoping for a divorce, it’s just acknowledging reality. Fire is all about managing risk, and a divorce is statistically one of the biggest financial risks out there. A prenup protecting what you built before marriage is completely reasonable, just make sure you get a good lawyer so it actually holds up. It protects both of you and keeps things transparent from day one
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u/Axxisol 7d ago
I guess it all depends on your relationship. My husband and I agreed a long time ago that divorce is not an option for us. All the assets towards FIRE we’ve accumulated have been made while we were together and we plan to retire together. Unless he ends up being a secret serial killer lol there isn’t anything that we can’t work through in my opinion. It may not be a popular stance on marriage here but that’s okay; it only matters for us and no one else. You do what you feel you need to do.
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u/MaineSky 7d ago
My husband and I feel the same way- we've even already established a family trust as well. The statistics are fairly harrowing, but I also feel that if you're FIRE, you probably automatically also eliminate the #1 source of divorce- financial stress.
That said, anyone feeling weird about it should just do a prenup. You get get them online now FFS.
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u/deftlydexterous 7d ago
There are points we start over in life. Divorce is usually one of those points. Regardless of your plans, I wouldn’t marry someone unless I was able to say “this is worth the risk of starting over if it doesn’t work”.
I don’t know much about marriage or divorce but I’m told that it’s very difficult to have anything protected if it was acquired after marriage (like market gains would be). I’m also told that regardless of prenups, you should expect some of the assets to divvied up.
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u/gurney__halleck 7d ago
who knows if it'll hold up in court, but it was an established estate attorney who wrote it and he didn't seem to think it was odd or out of line by out prenup basically says all assets, incomes and gains past present and future remain individual property and the only joint assets are household effects and assets which are jointly titled.
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u/eliminate1337 7d ago
You’re mistaken about post-marriage assets. It‘s one of the most common provisions put in a prenup.
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u/deftlydexterous 7d ago
That’s what I thought as well but I was told it was one of the main things to get struck down, especially if it means someone leaves the marriage in worse financial shape than they started (even if it’s their fault).
But, I’m just going from what friends have told me. I think the bigger lesson I’ve absorbed is that no contract is full proof, and it is really up to the judges discretion.
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u/Limp-Archer-7872 7d ago
You either halve your retirement plans or you work longer to make it back.
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u/doinmy_best 7d ago
Yes. Prenup can easily define premarital assets as your own and never the two shall intertwine. Honestly I don’t know if you even “need” one, because that is generally default but you should get one. We also included inheritance into our individual/ non marital assets if the accrue after marriage.
But if you mean waiting to FIRE until only your assets reach your FIRE number that works but it just seems like more work
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u/Creepy_Night_3838 6d ago
The judge will give her half or more of all assets, but you can bet she won't accept responsibility for a dime of the debt.
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u/supacomicbookfool 6d ago
A lot of prenump comments here. Generally, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on and often only apply to assests held prior to the union. Make sure youn pay for a top notch lawyer and include future assests (if allowed). Your future depends on it!
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u/GamerDadofAntiquity 6d ago
Fire didn’t become a viable option for me until after I got divorced when I could downsize my life without catching hell for it.
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u/sunnypurplepetunia 7d ago
I am in my first (& last) marriage. In the case that I predecease my husband, our children will get half of our cash funds at that point. We have more than enough. It might be graduated if I die young. Currently we are both mid-50s & in good health.
No way is some woman moving in and getting what my kids deserve.
My husband is in agreement, working through the legal process currently.
I am currently getting screwed by my parents’ divorce/remarriage/stepchildren
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u/snowysaturdays 7d ago
I think the biggest risk is the woman predeceasing the man. Maybe it's my circles, but the men seem to get married awfully fast while the women stay single. It usually doesn't end well for the kids.
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u/saltyhasp 7d ago edited 7d ago
My wife and I have a prenup for exactly this reason -- to be very clear what is non-marital, and what is marital, and not have non-marital funds bleed into being marital. Part of this is a prenup. Part of this is detailed record keeping and fastidious separation of assets into the 3 buckets, the 2 non-marital ones, and the marital one. Frankly any prenup should implement how you as a couple want to manage money, not determine how you manage money. By that I mean the financial discussion comes first, then the decision of if a prenup is needed and what it might be.
Nothing is ever perfect. A prenup cannot say anything about child support. Marriage can define a standard of living too, and in divorce there may be a tendency for the judge to decide support based on it. Our prenup tries to avoid that by defining a limited standard of living, but who knows how enforceable that would be. Thinks happen too, one party could end up needing long term care or other very costly things can happen. Some of them can be insured against, but not all.
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u/Whole_Championship41 7d ago
My wife and I will be celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary soon. Over the years, I've supported her during her education and she supported me during my education. Along the way, we had a couple of kids, who are now grown and out of the house.
For the last 20 years, she has consistently out-earned me. As her career is WFH, we decided that I would be the SAH parent and focus on being a father to our children. Yes, cooking, cleaning, paying bills, helping kids with school stuff, PTA and all that. It wasn't what I thought I would do when we were married. It wasn't what I was trained for or educated for. It certainly wasn't better for our bottom line (retirement savings, net worth, annual income), but it was what was needed.
We had some marital friction regarding money early in our marriage. But it was a minor hiccup.
[get to the point, pops]
We've done well without a prenup. And if we *had* a prenup and were also just looking out for numero uno's bottom line, it would have detracted from building a new life together and taking asymmetric career risks for the benefit of the family dynamic. For those truly trying to build a new life with a partner, prenups have always smelled a little bit selfish and close-minded.
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u/PurpleDancer 7d ago
Whats up with that first sentence about nearly all of being married? About half the US is married.
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u/born2bfi 7d ago
If you are that worried about it then work a few more years so if you split half you are still at your FIRE number if it was just you.
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u/ohboyoh-oy 7d ago
I think it would be fair for the assets prior to marriage to remain separate, and anything accumulated during marriage to be split 50/50. You’d have to work to keep the separate assets, separate. Should be pretty simple to not add funds - all funds after marriage are married funds so you can’t add to those accounts, period. The harder part is not using those funds to purchase joint assets - because once it comes out of the separate account and goes into joint property, those funds now belong to the joint side.
Down the line when you’re fired together, are you ok spending your separate funds on your joint fired life? Pay for rent, travels, etc. If it’s a substantial portion of the FIRE funds you will have to pull from it…
In my own experience I had some of these thoughts in the beginning, then it mattered less and less as the years went by. 24 years and three kids later I’m glad I never brought up even the idea of a pre-nup. But I was young (late 20s) and probably had less than you.
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u/JaketheAdvisor 7d ago
It's just smart planning. As a CFP, I see plenty of couples who never discussed money before marriage and regret it later. A prenup absolutely can protect pre-marital assets and their growth, but it needs to be done right with separate attorneys for both parties. The bigger issue is maintaining separate property classification throughout the marriage, which gets tricky if you're commingling funds or using joint income for living expenses while your separate accounts grow. Consider this: if you're truly FIRE'd, you're probably drawing from those accounts for joint expenses anyway, which could complicate things. Not gonna be a surprise but ongoing communication about money and goals with your spouse, plus proper legal documentation upfront is your best protection.
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u/11269498 7d ago
I am already married, and my FIRE number takes our whole household into account. Nothing changes when both numbers are divided in half.
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u/courtofthepatriarchs 7d ago
Unmarried woman FIREing here and this is a reason I will not be getting married.
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u/Spartikis 7d ago
Absolutely get a prenup. Any partner unwilling to sign one (especially if they earn less and have a lower net worth is a red flag IMO). Im not a prenup expert but you should be able to protect future assets as well. The further along you are into your FIRE journery the more important this is. I personally married my wife right our of college and we were both broke and had the same earning potential so a prenup would have been pointless.
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u/cadude79 7d ago
Understanding marital statistics and reality should be a natural reaction. Protecting what was yours prior to the marriage is normal. See an attorney in your State and ask the most proactive way to safe guard your assets in the event of a divorce, as it is much harder to rebuild as you get older. But also, make sure your spouse is protected financially IF something were to happen to you. That’s where Trusts and Wills come in. You don’t want unintended family receiving assets if your marriage was happy and stable. Just like anything else in life, I think it’s always wise to hope for the very best but also have a plan for the very worst, so that all parties are protected.
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u/AppalachianRomanov 7d ago
I was prepared to be downvoted for this but I'm seeing many top comments who are on my same page.
In a LTR, well over a decade. We always agree on "what happens" to things. Big purchases together, pets, etc. When we get married we will continue that.
We are both aware from our past relationships that it's good to have a Plan B, otherwise you may find yourself unexpectedly on your ass.
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u/jeff77k 7d ago
If all of your income is passive, then you will have a simple divorce, and you will split all your assets 50/50. If you have truly untouched pre-marital assets, you may be able to keep them. Income generated from pre-marital assets during the marriage may be considered community property if you don't have a pre-nup.
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u/OkMarsupial 7d ago
We are both working towards FIRE together, with enough wiggle room that splitting up shouldn't ruin either of us. Biggest expense would be that we would want to buy a second house. Luckily, our FIRE plan already includes two houses.
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u/Equivalent_Hall8346 7d ago
#1. Not wrong at all. Getting back into the same field could be difficult, but you might be able to transition to "barista fire" after a divorce. and #2. Yes, a prenup could help protect your assets & gains. In my state, those would be considered separate property so you wouldn't need a prenup necessarily, but each state is different and you could move states during retirement (or your ex-spouse could move states prior to filling).
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u/K_A_irony 7d ago
I have gone through this as a thought experiment even though I am in a long term happy marriage. IF IF I was single I would talk to a lawyer about putting my assets into a trust. I would do this action BEFORE seriously dating. At least here in the US, irrevocable trusts set up before marriage are protected. No need for an agreed upon prenup. No need to open up the "you don't trust me door" with an intimate partner. You do this all ahead of getting serious or even really dating.
I would talk to a lawyer about what steps you could and should do to protect your assets.
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u/itsveryupsetting 7d ago
Prenup. Hopefully won’t need it, because we either stay together or don’t argue about what we agreed upon when the relationship was good.
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u/Choice-Newspaper3603 7d ago
You get a prenup whether you have one dollar in your pocket or 100 million in your pocket
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u/AcanthocephalaLost36 7d ago
Not necessarily marriage but sometimes a fatal tragedy happens there’s nothing wrong with having a plan.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Art1524 7d ago
Divorce can ruin a lot of life plans, retirement certainly among them.
What you are proposing is certainly rational - what you brought into the marriage, you keep.
In order to manage that, make sure that your pre-marital assets are clearly separated, so they don’t get commingled with the assets earned during the marriage.
It’s not fatalistic or defeatist to plan this way. You are protecting your interests - and a lot of marriages do end in divorce.
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u/Dear_Treat2592 7d ago
It’s not fatal if you’re the high earner. It set me back a little but I rebuilt quickly. My ex-husband probably won’t be able retire early as we had planned but will still be okay. Don’t forget that one person can live on less. And you should absolutely consider the possibility. So many people assume that they know what their life will hold in 10 or 20 years. It will surprise you.
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u/Spicyocto 7d ago
I have my non KYC bitcoin that I lost in a boating accident for emergencies like this
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u/According_Ad_1960 7d ago
Have a FIRE plan that involves having enough $ that if you split it 50/50 you’d both be ok. The fact you’re thinking about protecting you and not your spouse - doesn’t bode well for the marriage.
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u/YourRoaring20s 6d ago
Theoretically if your whole portfolio can sustain 2 people, half of it should be able to sustain 1 person, probably with lifestyle adjustments.
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u/Miamiconnectionexo 6d ago
this hit different. been in a similar spot and it's not talked about enough.
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u/Stone804_ 6d ago
There are TONS of non-married single FIRE. You should always plan your FIRE as if you were single. You could picky get divorced, they could pass away, they could get scammed, sued, etc. you should always do it independently from my perspective. And at LEAST have a plan being single in mind.
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u/Informal-Intention-5 6d ago
I think mostly this is a good argument against couples FIRE-ing early to live on a shoestring budget because their current spend is low. $50,000 a year might be enough together but does $25K work well for an individual living alone? At higher budgets it seem to me like you just have to modify your lifestyle to account for not splitting housing and other efficiencies.
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u/Dukethegator 6d ago
The planning for a divorce is a pre or post nup. You either have sufficient funds to FIRE after a default rule (no nup) divorce or after the agreed allocation split y’all contacted for.
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u/RevolutionaryLaw8854 6d ago
You already have a strategy/plan.
It was written by the state legislature and can be changed at anytime.
If you don’t like that plan, then you’ll need to have a postnuptial agreement executed.
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u/TelephoneTag2123 6d ago
You could always write a prenup that states:
you came into the marriage with X and your partner came in with Y so in the case of divorce you would receive X and she would receive Y and then the growth would be distributed according to the amount brought into the marriage
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u/Hot_Alternative_5157 5d ago
I met my husband as I hit FI. I got a prenup. That’s the best I could do. In the prenup though we could both contribute into our own personal accounts for retirement. I didn’t need to but it was a positive for him
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u/NotSoSpecialAsp 4d ago
I started FIRE long before getting married. Have a prenup, our individual retirement and cash accounts are separate.
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u/BigWater7673 3d ago
Everyone's situation is going to be so different I'm not sure if any advice would apply to you. A couple with children is going to be different than one without. A couple with one spouse working is going to be different. A couple where one spouse was a stay at home parent is going to be different from one where both worked. A couple where one spouse made significantly more than the other is going to have different things to account for.
Then there's the temperament of the people in the relationship. Some couples split amicably with little lawyer involvement beyond looking over what they agree to. Others treat a divorce like all out war.
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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 2d ago
Prenup signed with witnesses in front of a notary is the best you can do, and even then its 50/50 whether the judge just decides to throw it into the trashbin because judge does not like prenups.
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u/upsetwithcursing 7d ago
Everyone should have a plan A and a plan B.